CreateDebate


Debate Info

56
66
For Against
Debate Score:122
Arguments:77
Total Votes:128
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 For (32)
 
 Against (42)

Debate Creator

AskingAndy(80) pic



For or against suicide?

Are you for or against suicide? Do you think its selfish or do you think its fine?

For

Side Score: 56
VS.

Against

Side Score: 66
4 points

Suicide is not something that one does for a laugh. It is usually brought on by severe mental issues, ones which unfortunately are difficult to resolve. If a person feels that their existence is worse than death, then let the person be.

Side: For
4 points

Suicide is not something that one does for a laugh.

Try convincing Joe of that.

If a person feels that their existence is worse than death, then let the person be.

They're fully capable of killing themselves, but they should at least try to get help from friends, family, or, really, just about anyone. I've been there for two people I've known when they were depressed; I would expect most people to be willing to sacrifice some time to help somebody that matters to them get through the tough times of depression.

Side: For
5 points

Try convincing Joe of that.

Try to convince Joe that anything is not for a laugh. Guaranteed failure is assured.

They're fully capable of killing themselves, but they should at least try to get help from friends, family, or, really, just about anyone. I've been there for two people I've known when they were depressed; I would expect most people to be willing to sacrifice some time to help somebody that matters to them get through the tough times of depression.

Oh, I don't dispute that we should try to help. But there are some people beyond help. There are those that will continually reject help, and will shut themselves off. Once this point is reached, the chances of successfully restoring them to normal life are infinitesimally small. Depression is one thing, but there are certain issues where nothing can be done.

And actually, suicide may not be as selfish as is made out. Every situation is different, and in some circumstances, it can be the best solution for everyone.

Side: For
3 points

funny how you say LET the person be: random guy: Chuck! some guy is on Burj Khalifa

Chuck: Where?

Random Guy: There!

Chuck: Why are you doing this?

Man: I hate my life.

Chuck: Oh................Okay

Man: jumps

XD XD XD

Side: Against
ChuckHades(3197) Disputed
2 points

Why should I help a random guy? C'mon, I got places to go, jump already, before I push you off!

Side: For
Qweerty650(28) Disputed
2 points

You are right, suicide is usually brought on by severe mental issues, often mental disorders like schizophrenia, depression, bi-polar disorder and numerous other conditions. The thing is, if a decision like this is caused by a cognitive disorder then that is a reason to oppose that decision, not support it. If someone is compelled into this by a delusion when they wouldn’t want to kill themselves if they were treated and returned to reality then we should oppose their decision as something that is against their true choice. Their life should be protected in that circumstance, and opposing suicide makes it more likely they will seek treatment because that opposition sends the message that if you want to kill yourself then there is something wrong and you should seek help. The problem is that it is impossible to really know when someone is being compelled by a delusion in that way because the delusion is entirely internal to them and can often be hidden even from psychiatrists. The only way to be sure we are protecting those who do not truly consent and are being compelled is to oppose all suicides.

Side: Against
ChuckHades(3197) Disputed
3 points

The thing is, if a decision like this is caused by a cognitive disorder then that is a reason to oppose that decision, not support it.

I disagree. Depending on the circumstances, it can be either.

If someone is compelled into this by a delusion when they wouldn’t want to kill themselves if they were treated and returned to reality then we should oppose their decision as something that is against their true choice.

But the people who reach this stage are most likely to be beyond help. They are the ones that will continually shut themselves off from support until they make a final decision, which is nobody's fault but their own. Once at this stage, it is impossible to know what their "true choice" would be.

Their life should be protected in that circumstance,

One is then left with a moral dilemma. Which is more important: the right to life, or freedom of choice?

opposing suicide makes it more likely

Just to clarify, I don't encourage suicide. I just support the rights of those who wish to do so.

you want to kill yourself then there is something wrong and you should seek help

That could antagonize the situation. Telling a suicidal person that there is something wrong with them isn't very encouraging, is it?

The only way to be sure we are protecting those who do not truly consent and are being compelled is to oppose all suicides.

But again, you are then infringing on the personal freedom of choice that we all have. Which brings us back to the aforementioned moral dilemma.

Side: For
3 points

I am for suicide if the person is in a physical state which they can't mentally deal with. For instance, someone who is paralyzed without the ability to do anything other than move their eyes and talk with the assistance of a lung machine may find that existence to be so horrible they can't go on.

Side: For
Irina(35) Disputed
1 point

You gave an example of paralyzed person. But I find that it is not a suicide,this case related to the cases of euthanasia. We should`t confuse one with another.In any case we should respect this life. Now we give different arguments pro and cons, but who knows who would we deal with it, if it touched our close people.

Side: Against
1 point

Excellent point you make. I was referring to an assisted suicide where the individual make the concious choice to die vs. someone being killed murdered or euthanized becuase of their age or infirmity.

Side: Against
3 points

Suicide is beautiful, and those that commit are worthy of a unique form of admiration, it takes strength courage committment, and longing. Suicide is one of very few things entirely within our own control, a freedom that cannot be taken away, that eases the mind when times are tough, I am not the least bit ashamed to admit that I have contemplated suicide seriously many times in the past, and have I even come close to attempting it.

"What does a watch do? it percieves when somthing should happen right? no, time only is time because this shithole would be an endless cycle of days and nights without time and date, not that it changes anything but someone still made it and we all understand it. fucking table, i understand it, but why should i? it doesnt understand me, but it was built to understand me. "

"the best part of life is knowing that you can end it when you want to"

- Hunter S Thompson R.I.P.

Side: For
2 points

I honestly don't think it's fair to make someone live. No one knows what someone else can handle and what someone cannot. And it's not fair to force someone to suffer.

I believe suicide should be allowed for adults. Not teenagers or children, who still have a chance for their life to change. But adults who are suffering should be able to have the choice.

Anyone who says it's the cowards way out clearly has never been in the position of thinking about it. And you don't know that person's life or what that individual may not be able to handle.

Side: For
1 point

Not really so far you give them help advice money, then you can leave them alone and decide if they can handle it.

Side: Against
Saurbaby(5581) Disputed
1 point

I'm not saying just hand them a gun without talking to them first. And we can't be giving EVERYONE who contemplates suicide money, that would be ridiculous. Not to mention if that was a choice there would be a lot more people claiming they were thinking about it.

Side: For
1 point

I can't say I'm an advocate, but I do believe that those who come to the solution of suicide is not as mentally ill as we may think they are. Suicide is a desperate decision, one that many may contemplate long before they decide to seal that fate. Many of them also stem from lifetimes of agony and anguish, not only from physical ailments but also from mental issues. There are times when every resource has been exhausted, but to no avail. Mentally ill people are struggling and suffering just as much as those who do physically - just because we cannot tangibly see what burdens them, doesn't mean they aren't hurting.

Also, I've never been able to say that suicide has been a cowardly act - to me, it would take a great deal of will and self-resignation to do such a thing, especially when trying to weight the "pros" and "cons" of leaving those around them.

And then, of course, there is the question of the religious beliefs of the one committing the act and of the survivors. Religious people are left with the question, even then, "Will they forfeit Heaven, or does God understand their pain and have mercy?" That's a question those still alive probably can't answer.

Side: For

It is a choice of you wanting to live or not, plus it takes people who are akward out of the picture and lets them do what they want. And it also controls the population.

Side: For
Irina(35) Disputed
1 point

Don`t you think that suicide is the best form of controlling population? Don`t you find that it is too violent?

Side: Against
1 point

Suicide is a choice, its a decision that the person had to make. Some people suicided because they are very stressed up.

Side: For
1 point

suicide is a choice, when people who are sad and have nothing to look forward in life usually result to suicide as it is very tempting thought to suicide

Side: For
1 point

It is selfish to a degree, but I still think it should be a right of people to do. I think that the basis of morality stems from sovereignty, the ability to determine what happens to one's self and one's property. Insofar as this is true, I think that it is wrong to prevent a person from acting with their own self and property however they wish as long as this does not directly harm another or impose a fear of harm to another.

I do think that suicide should be state preformed - that one should need to consult with a psychologist and discuss the desire and then schedule a follow up and establish that the desire is relatively constant - a standard period of time should be established before the euthanasia would be preformed so as to prevent episodic and short lived bouts of depression. Then (as i understand to be one of the least painful ways to go) a morphine OD could be administered. This seems reasonable and gives people the right to self determination - it would also allow the people who have decided to kill themselves the oportunity to say goodbye to their loved ones.

Side: For
1 point

Suicide is not an easy thing to do, the individual may be facing extreme emotional and psychological pressure that is why they commit suicide

Side: For
1 point

yes if its as a response to a situation such as the twin towers where suicide was a way of escaping a fate which would inevitably lead to death anyway.

Side: For
1 point

I am all for assisted suicide for those with severe pain, mental anguish and needless suffering brought on by a terminal illness. A person should not have to suffer during end stage disease.

But, I don't agree with suicide involving the mentally ill. As a person that has attempted three times and is now suffering the consequences for my actions, there is a multitude of assistance that person can receive. Plus, committing suicide because of a mental illness causes a LOT of stress and problems for your family members. They will not understand why you made the choice that you did.

If you survive, you will never be trusted to a certain degree by family members and people outside your family. You might have shortened your life and after the appropriate psychiatric help. You will wonder why you did what you did.

Side: For
1 point

It's people's choice to kill themselves. It's their right.

We can only help them think about it so that we know they've given it some reasonable thought first.

Side: For

I know this subject is going to cause a lot of controversy, but if you are being bullied to the point where you don't want to live anymore, it's fine, and then your bully or bulliers have that gulit for the rest of their lives... you are helping to stop other people from doing it to themselves...

Side: For
1 point

If a person's mind is weak enough to actually commit suicide, then so be it. An easy way for eliminating weak DNA.

Sort of survival of the fittest. Not just physical strength but also mental.

Side: For

im pro choice if you wanna kill yourself be my guest! but i would never and don't think people should!

Side: For
3 points

Suicide should be opposed because people shouldn’t have the ability to forfeit the right to life. The right to life is different from other rights in many ways that make this true.

First, life is the fundamental right from which all other rights derive. Every other right is useless without life, so on a balance of protecting the most rights suicide should be opposed.

Secondly, forfeiting life is irreversible. Other rights can be regained if you opt out of them, but not life. That permanence means life should be afforded extra protection.

Third, when you take your life you are also taking the life of whatever person you might become, so even if you consent to suicide, the future you hasn’t consented (or at least it is impossible to establish that consent).

Fourth, while some might have legitimate reasons for wanting to kill themselves there are many mental disorders that drive people to suicide, but which could be treated. It is impossible to prove beforehand if someone has such a disease, so inevitably if we are for suicide then some people will die who would not have consented to die if they had a healthy state of mind.

Fifth, there are practical benefits to life being considered sacred. If life is sacred people are more willing to consider other options like counselling or therapy or support networks rather than suicide. It also means people who make decisions regarding people’s lives are more likely to look at life as a right which is deserving of special protections and act accordingly.

Life is a special right, it should be considered especially sacred even to the point of opposing people opting out of it.

Side: Against
Apollo(1608) Disputed
1 point

Suicide should be opposed because people shouldn’t have the ability to forfeit the right to life. The right to life is different from other rights in many ways that make this true.

The right to life should include the right to take your own life.

life is the fundamental right from which all other rights derive

Inalienable rights are made up and non-existent human creations.

That permanence means life should be afforded extra protection.

Why should people by protected...from themselves. All other rights are meant to protect someone from others. No one should be limited by rights. Rights should be freedoms.

when you take your life you are also taking the life of whatever person you might become, so even if you consent to suicide, the future you hasn’t consented (or at least it is impossible to establish that consent).

WTF?

there are many mental disorders that drive people to suicide, but which could be treated. It is impossible to prove beforehand if someone has such a disease

There actually is. It's called Psychiatry.

if we are for suicide then some people will die who would not have consented to die if they had a healthy state of mind.

Who says we can't prevent this by prohibiting people who have been diagnosed from committing suicide. All cases are not the most extreme of that case.

But even negating this, isn't a physiological injury just as bad as a physical one? They shouldn't be treated differently.

Fifth, there are practical benefits to life being considered sacred. If life is sacred people are more willing to consider other options like counselling or therapy or support networks rather than suicide. It also means people who make decisions regarding people’s lives are more likely to look at life as a right which is deserving of special protections and act accordingly.

This isn't an argument.

Life is a special right, it should be considered especially sacred even to the point of opposing people opting out of it.

Rights are freedoms. Rights do not withhold people's actions, they allow them. Your definition of what the "right to life' is is contradictory to what rights, at a FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, are.

Side: For
Qweerty650(28) Disputed
2 points

Ok, let’s divide this up into the themes of: first, rights analysis, and second, practical analysis.

So, rights analysis. Let’s ask where rights come from. There are usually two justifications for saying that something is a right, A: that they are essential to human dignity, and B: that it is simply better in a utilitarian kind of way to pretend that rights are inalienable.

So what do I mean by “essential to human dignity”? Basically, that something is so fundamental to people being able to achieve their own happiness that denying this to them somehow degrades the concept of being human and expressing your humanity and personhood through your life. Why does this matter? Because under this idea of rights the right to life is incredibly important as something that is necessary for every individuals humanity. The other rights can be traded away if someone decides for themselves that their humanity doesn’t require those things to be rights, but life isn’t like that. To give up life is to give up the very thing that rights are meant to protect – your ability to be fully human. That’s why Life, unique to all rights, supersedes the right to choice in every case.

Now let’s look at a utilitarian idea of rights. This idea means we call something an absolute right because not doing so would lead to bad outcomes which we don’t want. This is where my arguments of social effects of not opposing suicide become relevant, because they give reasons why the practical effect of not opposing suicide leads to worse social outcomes.

You said All other rights are meant to protect someone from others. No one should be limited by rights. Rights should be freedoms but having rights isn’t just about freedom. I have the right to life and the right to choice, but I lose the right of choice if it inflicts on another’s life because murder is a crime. This means rights often come into conflict, and we need to determine which takes priority. Clearly life comes at or near the top. I say it comes at the very top because firstly it is the ultimate aim of rights, because it leads to better utilitarian outcomes and taking life doesn’t just take some of your other rights to a certain extent, it takes all of your other rights completely.

Now let’s look at these practical ideas.

We can’t just (prohibit) people who have been diagnosed from committing suicide because the tools for diagnosis are not perfect.

Psychiatry isn’t enough to prove whether someone has a disorder. Psychiatry isn’t an exact science and often doesn’t correctly diagnose illnesses. This is because these illnesses are often entirely internal, so the psychiatrist only has the information supplied to them by the patient and patients with these disorders often lie, and often don’t believe that there is anything wrong with them so they often never even see a psychiatrist. Psychiatry can’t prove people are truly rational and consenting, so conflicting Life vs. Choice we should prioritize life because we can’t guarantee we actually protect choice anyway.

Not all cases are the most extreme, but some of them are and those cases deserve our protection. If we screw up even once then that is too many. One person taking their life when they didn’t truly want to means that we have damaged their right to choose, not just today, but every choice that they will ever make. Even one failure in that respect pushes the balance towards opposing suicide on a practical level, and on the level of protecting choice.

On psychological injury vs. physical injury, yes psychological injury is bad, but that’s a false analogy. This is psychological injury vs death, and death is absolute and permanent, that’s why it’s worse.

Rights come into conflict, and life should be prioritized above all, and in a practical analysis consent can’t be guaranteed and should be protected for the sake of those who would otherwise die. If you want the best outcomes, oppose suicide. If you want to protect life, oppose suicide. If you want to protect choice, oppose suicide.

Side: Against
2 points

Life is not a right, it is a condition - The right to life as it is found in the US constitution is a political right, i.e. it is the right to not fear that one's life can be taken away by the government and that if one's life is to be taken by another person that the justice system will seek to punish the person who violated the right and prevent them from further violations.

I agree with Apollo that rights should not limit a person

Also, Apollo was right to say WTF to the statement that you are also taking the life of whatever person you might become because you are currently not that person, that person doesnt matter, that person is a potentiality and potentiality arguments have little relevance to termination debates insofar as they do not exist and will not exist if termination occurs their value never becomes meaningful beyond the hypothetical and we dont govern our world based on hypotheticals when more immediate meaning is apparent.

Another argument for suicide, is that if you really want to do it, you will since laws dont matter insofar as you will not be there for the consequences of violating it.

Side: For
3 points

Suicide is really horrible, everybody who are related to that person woud be sad. Suicide is a sin.

Side: Against
3 points

suicide would cause the people around you to feel sad and unhappy .it is also a sin and you would be sent to hell

Side: Against
2 points

I am against suicide if someone is using it as a way out of a psychological situation where they are able bodied, but can't get their mind right. Now, I realize that a. Ind is not easy to fix, but there is a possibility to do so vs. my other argument about why I support suicide. Either way, it should only be used in the most dire of situations.

Side: Against

I'm an engineer. Believe it or not, I get paid to come up with solutions to problems. To me, a psychological debilitation is just as bad as a physical one. If I developed dementia, and I was not able to perform, then send me to a chicken factory with the male chicks. OK..., that's too drastic..., send me to Oregon and give me the choice between the red pill and the blue pill..., except they are both the same. I find it poetic to be taken out by a troll ;)

Side: Against

I am against suicide because you are basically not only harming yourself, but everyone else around you. Let's not mention it is a cowards way out. I also have a religious but I CAN explain that reason.

Side: Against
2 points

So true man people only harm the people they love by dying. I am not religious and religiously and non-religiously suicide is wrong.

Side: Against

exactly and because of him they can commit suicide too.,................

Side: Against

I know for a fact that there is someone always out there that can help you with any problems you have or at least try to help.

Side: Against
2 points

I think that we should go against suicide as suicide just makes everyone think that he or she is a coward and do not want to face up new challenges easily.It is also because they think that some people are ullying them for eternity and instead of telling it to their parents or a teacher, they decide to commit suicide so I go against commiting suicide.

Side: Against
2 points

It was proved be V.M. Bekhterev (He is a famous Russian academic,psychologist and neurologist ) that failed attempt of suicide returns life instinct and care of it. Also Bekhterev paid attention to the illogicality in the behavior of people who tried to commit suicide. After failed attempt they started to value their lives, fight for right to live.Also people, suffering from alcohol and drug addiction, are more inclined to the attempt of suicide. Alcohol addiction is the reason of 25-30% suicides, moreover among young people the rate is higher - about 50%.

Side: Against
2 points

I believe that suicide isnt right. There is other ways to deal with your problems then to just end your life. Lives are precious not something to just throw away. Because you can never get them back.

Side: Against
2 points

Suicide, to some may be the answers to their problems but in doing so it can bring utter distress to individuals that will be affected. There are many alternatives other than committing suicide. For example, individuals can seek help and treatment that can potentially treat their suicidal illnesses.

Side: Against
1 point

I`m against suicide. From my point of view, any person thinking about suicide is selfish. Because this person thinks only about himself. It is the easiest way to decide all your problems. But what about people, who love and respect you? Is it not a egoism?Firstly, normal person will never decide to commit suicide. I mean people with stable mentality, but there is no speech about mentally ill people.I can understand the last group people somehow. Secondly, there are existing moral principles in the life. From very childhood we are taught what is wrong and what is bad. Thirdly, as I know, all religions consider suicide the greatest sin. Life is a great preset from God and we should value it. Life is not a fairytale, so we should overcome all difficulties and do not show our weaknesses.

Side: Against
nocturnal123(43) Disputed
2 points

Your selfish for wanting people who are unhappy with their lives to stay around because they are close to you or something stupid.

Side: For
Irina(35) Disputed
1 point

Of course, I accept that,we can also call it egoism.You know that all people born selfish persons. But we should differ positive and negative egoism. Indubitably, the first type of egoism has more positive moments.

Side: Against

I am against suicide. I would suppose it because of the stupid system we have today where unemployment rates are always high. I can blame the government for their stupid system which ruins lives. Some people who committed suicide couldn't afford a Psychiatrist. We need to help them rather than stop them from killing themselves.

Side: Against
1 point

well i am against suicide because we dont have right to finish our life which is blessing given by God,If we do so than we probably going against nature this life is beautiful if we have any problem than there many ways to solve it we must face the challenges not to be coward and take wrong decision.

Side: Against
AskingAndy(80) Clarified
1 point

If they want to who are you to stop them or think its the cowardly way out. I believe if you have gone long enough with a bad life and you want to commit suicide go for it. Why would anyone want to be living on the earth miserable, when there miserable and everything they cant enjoy the beauty of earth

Side: For
emmi(31) Disputed
1 point

So this is not the solution man if something is going wrong in your life than sort it out not to turn the face from the reality this life is full of challenges just accept it and whatever you talked about misery than i wanna clarify one thing 80% of misery in our life happened are not misery at all..

Side: For
1 point

each individual was brought onto this earth for a reason, not to kill themselves and end their own life.

Side: Against
AskingAndy(80) Clarified
0 points

But if their life is absolute shit and alwyas has been whats the point? Its not like there gonna be enjoying it.

Side: For
Irina(35) Disputed
1 point

But who said that life is so easy as in fairytale? Life is life! Life is struggle and it makes us stronger. Anyway we must enjoy our life and if we don`t like something in our life, we should change it. Because everything in our hands!

Side: For
1 point

Life is not a right, it is a condition - The right to life as it is found in the US constitution is a political right, i.e. it is the right to not fear that one's life can be taken away by the government and that if one's life is to be taken by another person that the justice system will seek to punish the person who violated the right and prevent them from further violations.

Side: Against
1 point

I am against suicide because you are basically not only harming yourself, but everyone else around you. Let's not mention it is a cowards way out. I also have a religious but I CAN explain that reason.

Side: Against
1 point

I think that we should go against suicide as suicide just makes everyone think that he or she is a coward and do not want to face up new challenges easily.It is also because they think that some people are ullying them for eternity and instead of telling it to their parents or a teacher, they decide to commit suicide so I go against commiting suicide.

Side: Against
1 point

So this is not the solution man if something is going wrong in your life than sort it out not to turn the face from the reality this life is full of challenges just accept it and whatever you talked about misery than i wanna clarify one thing 80% of misery in our life happened are not misery at all..

Side: Against
1 point

But who said that life is so easy as in fairytale? Life is life! Life is struggle and it makes us stronger. Anyway we must enjoy our life and if we don`t like something in our life, we should change it. Because everything in our hands!

Side: Against
1 point

Well I sure hope people are against suicide ...

Okay so in a way .....its the one persons perminant descision .....

But in another way , its baaaaaaaaad

Side: Against
1 point

One thing is when to take their lives decide to humans trapped in the complex reality of the situation and condemned them here, we simply have no right because they do not yet know how much we ourselves were led in a similar. Quite another thing is when a suicide dare stupid young people who we really still do not know anything in life, and faced in the first situation, they can not just steer go to extreme measures. For example, undivided, or unrequited love ... How many young people killed themselves because of this ...

Side: Against

I am against suicide, yet, there are legitimate reasons why someone wants to take his/her life.

Side: Against