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Debate Info

10
15
True. False.
Debate Score:25
Arguments:22
Total Votes:27
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 True. (10)
 
 False. (12)

Debate Creator

EnigmaticMan(1840) pic



"Free will" does not preclude fate.

It has often been argued that free will precludes the notion of destiny. We are to believe that the ability to choose between several outcomes constitutes grounds upon which to dismiss the concept of fate. However, it seems to me that, as decisions are made due to the chemical state of our brains, this "free will" is an illusion. 

When one makes a decision it is one's mentality which compels one to pick a particular option. For example, if one were to cross the road one might be hit by a car. We shall assume that this is the definite outcome (such as all other circumstances would presage it) if one were to attempt to cross the road wihtout detecting the car. One would detect the car if one looked left before crossing. Looking before crossing is the pivotal decision. Fundamentally, the reason one would look before crossing is the particular chemical state of one's brain (memory, the urgency of the crossing to the individual &c.). As that state is the product of similar choices made before, perhaps by different people (who your mother decided to marry, whether they decided to teach you to look, whether you had witnessed somebody being run over &c.), you will only ever pick one option; the one dictated by that chemical state.

Essentially, while it may theoretically go several ways, it can only practically go one way. While you may think you have a freedom to choose one of many paths, your choice is the product of other events and therefore has no potential to be any but one particular path.

True.

Side Score: 10
VS.

False.

Side Score: 15

The above line of thinking leads me to the conclusion that "Free Will" does not preclude fate.

Side: true.
1 point

Turns out you're not a retard who tries to sound smart.

There's no such thing as complete free will. Not in a way some people describe. You have free will but it is limited to - as you say - environmental factors.

Also I'm a superstitious/spiritual guy. There's more to thinking than chemical reactions within the brain.

Side: true.
Peekaboo(704) Disputed
1 point

It seems to me that he's not merely saying we have restricted free will; he's saying that we have no free will at all, in the sense of the ability to have done something other than what we in fact did.

It's a rather counter-intuitive stance, but then, almost any stance in the free will debate is counter-intuitive in certain places.

Side: False.
1 point

It's a rather counter-intuitive stance, but then, almost any stance in the free will debate is counter-intuitive in certain places.

Perhaps you could try to address the faults within the logic, rather than simply calling the logic faulty?

Side: true.
1 point

I know what he's trying to say.

My thoughts and actions aren't a result of chemical and electrical reactions in my head. They're merely the furtherest science has got into the brain. Thought is intangible. What he has brought up is merely science trying to measure something that can never truly be measured. My bodily functions cannot work without these chemical reactions, but my conscience is not related to it. THAT is the manoeuvrability towards fate I am talking about.

Side: False.
1 point

Turns out you're not a retard who tries to sound smart.

I'm afraid my original estimation of you is intact.

Also I'm a superstitious/spiritual guy. There's more to thinking than chemical reactions within the brain.

Such as?

Side: true.
cuntyguy2(203) Disputed
1 point

You're still wrong kid, but you can continue to try.

The concience. The soul. The spirit. All those things. It's easy to say everything we think and feel is based on chemical reactions, but without sounding like a cliche pussy (like you) the brain is more than simple chemical reactions - including the fact that we have become aware of it.

In fact it almost becomes a lack of accountability of your actions as you can simply blame everything on something you have no control over. If I was to go out and stab a woman on the street right now, I can plead innocence because I do not have the ability to choose as it was the result of chemical reactions and not my own free will.

Side: true.
Qymosabi(203) Disputed
1 point

The ridiculousness of ones environment influencing ones free will is a reflection of your small mindedness. If it's cold outside and i put on a coat i still "!choose! To put that coat on. The will of man is power to "do" something. I think you need to see a mental health expert.

Side: False.
1 point

If ones fate is controlled by other persons your free will is virtually powerless if those persons can control your destiny. The individual free will in todays reality has a precalculated predetermined outcome no matter the choice that you make.

For example the u.s. citizens voted for Al Gore by free will and the more powerfull people stole the election granting George Bush his predetermined fate.They did it not once...but "twice".

If there was allowed to be a state vote to end "individual" home owners property taxes altogether at whatever the cost of inflation it would pass in every state but the "free will" vote will never take place because the powerful and wealthy will make sure that our fate is to pay property taxes until the end of the world!

Side: true.
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
1 point

Then that would mean that not all people are controlled by fate, therefore the rich and wealthy have free will. So this would be false, merely become rich powerful and wealthy.

Side: False.
2 points

The argument is one against free will, but not in support of Free Will and Fate being contradictory.

Side: False.
1 point

The argument is one against free will, but not in support of Free Will and Fate being contradictory.

I was actually attempting to show that free will is a misconception. What people perceive to be "free will" exists, forasmuch as they make decisions consciously, but their choice is driven by the physical state of all the factors.

Side: true.
aveskde(1935) Disputed
2 points

I was actually attempting to show that free will is a misconception. What people perceive to be "free will" exists, forasmuch as they make decisions consciously, but their choice is driven by the physical state of all the factors.

Which amounts to what I said prior. Free will is the concept that your decisions can be made without coercion by natural forces or a god. In other words, you can choose to behave in a way contrary to those chemical processes of the brain which you mentioned in the debate subject. You claimed that free will was an illusion, that we are bound by chemical processes and environment. Therefore your argument is against free will, even if you redefine it as "Free will." Therefore you are not arguing that free will doesn't preclude fate, but that they are one and the same thing.

Side: False.
Qymosabi(203) Disputed
1 point

Free will cannot overcome the power of others more powerful than you that have control over your predetermined precalculated fate. The moderator is not contradictory you just are closed minded as usual and are not able to understand the Genius of his Debate.

Side: true.