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Debate Info

11
12
MADE BORN
Debate Score:23
Arguments:19
Total Votes:33
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 MADE (10)
 
 BORN (8)

Debate Creator

asutosh(5) pic



GENIUSES ARE MADE NOT BORN

MADE

Side Score: 11
VS.

BORN

Side Score: 12
3 points

False dichotomy .

Side: MADE
1 point

Exactly right, there is a complex interplay between the biological and environmental factors in intelligence.

Side: MADE
1 point

What is it that decides a genius? Perhaps a genius is.....

Definition of made

1 a : fictitious, invented

b : artificially produced

c : put together of various ingredients

Side: MADE
0 points

Maybe if you believe in all these people who tell you to believe in yourself with pride you'll magically make yourself into a genius.

Side: MADE
4 points

It's some of both.

Or better yet, let's apply the "necessary or sufficient?" paradigm. Is it necessary to be born with genius capabilities to become a genius? Yes. Because if you're born with the brain architecture to be an idiot you'll simply never be a genius. But is it sufficient to be born with that genius capacity to be a genius? No. Because it's still how you use the capability you've got. You can have the aptitude yet never be or do anything that counts as genius.

Side: BORN
1 point

It should be self evident that such geniuses such as Isaac Newton, Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo, Michael Faraday and Albert Einstein were born with with genius.

Side: BORN
xMathFanx(1722) Clarified
2 points

@Antrim

It should be self evident that such geniuses such as Isaac Newton, Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo, Michael Faraday and Albert Einstein were born with with genius.

I share partial agreement with you on this topic, although we appear to diverge to a notable extent.

Now, we need to distinguish between the "hardware" and "software" involved in Human intelligence.

Everybody is born with "hardware" on a spectrum from "lowest grade" to "highest grade", much like height for instance--which is (nearly) entirely out of their own control. Now, unlike height (actually, height can be fiddled with a bit), even the "hardware" can be molded in the positive or negative direction to relevant (although highly constrained) degrees due to neuroplasticity (and Frontal Lobe development or failure to become developed).

As for "software", this is tremendously reliant upon environmental factors and stimuli--including education, study time, ect. ect. Now, there is extremely high reason to believe that average range Human "hardware" is compatible with "software" upgrades beyond what we can currently imagine. That is, we have nowhere near "maxed out". For instance, it is well understood that the modern average Physics Graduate student (who is proficient in their studies) understands Relativity better than Einstein himself did. Moreover, Archimedes, for his time (ca. 287-212 BCE), was an unprecedented genius of the highest degree and it is well understood now that an individual with a BA/BS in Mathematics (that is proficient in the area) has knowledge & abilities so far above Archimedes that if they were to enter a time machine and go back to converse with him, Archimedes would be flabbergasted & almost definitely would struggle mightily to keep up--if he could at all. Archimedes (and others of his time) may well be tempted to describe such a Time Traveler as a "genius", although we know how silly & off the mark this claim would be. Hence, there are differing perspectives at work here as well, and if the Scientific Enterprise continues for centuries to millennia into Humanities future, this dynamic is bound to continue to unfold. This is a strong basis for hope--if humanity is able to "get our act together", then the potential is stupendous.

Also, Einstein (or Newton, ect) would have never been Einstein if it weren't for the extreme grit & tenacity for which they approached problems. Einstein worked on General Relativity continuously for 10 years straight, and in later life ultimately was on his deathbed writing down equations until he died. The idea that it was simply a "gift" is absurd--Newton, Einstein, and others are amongst the hardest-working people who have ever lived (aside from forced labor, that is). This is why comparisons between say Michael Jordan (or other "top" athletes) and Albert Einstein, ect. are truly infuriatingly stupid (amongst many other reasons).

Now, Newton & Einstein were clearly aberrations in the "high-grade Hardware" they were born with--and people with such "hardware" (to that level) seem to be extremely rare indeed (in fact, statistically infinitesimal). However, one should note that they still put in a tremendous amount of work in order to become the top "Genius" level people we know them as today--or else we (likely) would never have known them at all.

Side: MADE
1 point

We're are not all created equally. A person with a potential for genius must be born with a brain that has the potential but if that person isn't properly nurtured they can't develop to their potential.

Many genius quality brains and minds go wasted.

Side: BORN
0 points

Though I've never had an intelligent conversation with a new born, I can't help but wonder about the occasional baby with the knowing twinkle in its eye.

Ever meet a toddler who managed to get the square peg through the round hole? Only a genius would attempt and succeed at this.

Side: BORN
KrutonHybrid(71) Disputed
0 points

Though I've never had an intelligent conversation with a new born

That's because even babies think you're stupid.

If they could talk they'd say: "Mom, who is the mad twit who keeps grinning at me while he talks about something called ultimate reality? Is he crazy or just a pedo?"

Side: MADE
TzarPepe(763) Disputed
1 point

So you are claiming that new born babies are capable of judging someone as stupid?

Even if they are capable,what do they know? Their whole life so far was spent in a bubble.

Side: BORN
-2 points
TzarPepe(763) Disputed
1 point

Glass house

Side: MADE
KrutonHybrid(71) Disputed
0 points

Irony.

You are EXACTLY the idiot I was thinking about.

For someone who ceaselessly chants, "ultimate reality" at everyone he sees like the wild-eyed, dogmatic lunatic you are, you don't seem to have much of a grasp on reality.

Side: BORN
xMathFanx(1722) Disputed
1 point

@KrutonHybrid

Unfortunately, one of the drawbacks to individualist philosophy is that the more intellectually challenged individuals think it is a license to refuse to listen to people who are smarter than they are.

?

Side: MADE
xMathFanx(1722) Disputed
1 point

@Nomenclature

Only idiots believe that geniuses are made. They are the same idiots who believe stupidity is a matter of (their own) opinion.

Aren't you the genius that denied the genius of Francis Crick in order to reconcile belief in your unusual variant of Intelligent Design/Ancient Aliens?

Side: MADE