CreateDebate


Debate Info

27
20
He used phsyical force first. Innocents don't resist arrest.
Debate Score:47
Arguments:50
Total Votes:79
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 He used phsyical force first. (17)
 
 Innocents don't resist arrest. (12)

Debate Creator

Miocene(443) pic



George Floyd's apparent crime and his resisting arrest.

The police received a complaint from a food retailer that Floyd had tried to pass a forged cheque in payment for goods.
On arrival at the scene Floyd, who was accused by the shop owner to be under the influence of drugs or booze became physically aggressive towards the investigating officers and struggled with them violently in an effort to resist arrest.
Video evidence is now in the public domain showing Floyd grappling with police officers as they tried to place him in their vehicle.
The rest we know.

He used phsyical force first.

Side Score: 27
VS.

Innocents don't resist arrest.

Side Score: 20
1 point

Floyd most definitely should not have been killed but in many ways he contributed to his own unfortunate fate.

The ensuing destructive protests are totally unjustified and will achieve nothing more than to further polarize the white and black citizens of the U.S.A.

What do these looters and rioters really want.

Are they using this murder/manslaughter as an outlet for their pent up 'lockdown' frustration and irrational hatred for whites?

What white police officer in his/her right mind would arrest a black person who was resisting arrest.

Rioters, black and white have just given black criminals a licence to ply their illegalities with freedom from arrest.

Side: He used phsyical force first.
excon(14412) Disputed
2 points

What white police officer in his/her right mind would arrest a black person who was resisting arrest.

Hello again, M:

The cop isn't being charged with murder because he arrested Floyd.. He's being charged with murder because he put his knee on Floyd's neck and left it there until Floyd was dead. You seem unclear about that fact..

excon

Side: Innocents don't resist arrest.
Miocene(443) Clarified
1 point

The police officer's actions were unforgivable and in my view constitutes murder.

This cop appeared to me to be a sadistic thug who should have been discharged from the force long ago.

However, and once again, if Floyd had behaved reasonably he would still be alive today, either as a wrongly accused innocent party or as a suspect facing a minor charge of attempted fraud.

Side: He used phsyical force first.
Miocene(443) Clarified
1 point

During an arrest of a violent, unpredictable suspect events can, on occasions, spiral out of control with the outcome resulting in the death of either a policeman or the third party.

If the third party happens to be black then blacks the world over feel they are justified in causing further murders/attempted murders ( 5 police officers shot during Floyd riots ) and the destruction of property.

Any sane cop would walk away from trying to arrest a black suspect whose arrest required psychical restraint.

Side: He used phsyical force first.
1 point

George Floyd's apparent crime and his resisting arrest.

Hello M:

Yes.. He SHOULD have been killed. If forgery ISN'T punishable by death, it SHOULD be.

excon

Side: He used phsyical force first.
AlofRI(3062) Clarified
2 points

Trump holding up a Bible should be considered a "forgery of Christianity". ;-)

Side: He used phsyical force first.
Miocene(443) Clarified
1 point

I think to a greater or lesser extent, we're all guilty of feigned Christianity.

Or, maybe he felt he needed to seek solace within the hallowed sanctuary of a place of Christian worship.

Side: He used phsyical force first.
1 point

We cannot claim that George Floyd is innocent enough to refrain from getting handcuffed by the police. And it is not even the cops at the first place who claimed that there is something wrong with George Floyd. It was the store employee who called for 911 because of Floyd's unpleasant action. Both sides committed mistakes between George Floyd and the police, the police involved must face charges for murdering George and we must understand that George Floyd may be friendly, nice and non-violent (according to the store owner) but not in that situation where he was encountered by their employee. We must learn to look at both sides. Regarding the protest, not all of those people have good intentions. They took advantage of Floyd's death. Instead of a peaceful protest, it leads to a war. How could some of those people fight for justice if they are creating violence? What is the point of the others stealing/looting something they crave for? All lives matter. And still, justice for George Floyd. God bless America.

Supporting Evidence: George Floyd (www.bbc.com)
Side: He used phsyical force first.
2 points

The criminal complaint filed by law enforcement outlines the probable cause for the arrest of former officer Chauvin. It says that Floyd passed a counterfeit $20 and may have been under the influence of a substance. He resisted being handcuffed, but then became compliant. He resisted being placed in the squad and said he was claustrophobic. He said he couldn't breath before ever going to the ground. Once on the ground former officer Lane suggested he be placed on his side. Chauvin said no. Lane then insisted saying that he was concerned about excited delirium (people have died from simply being subdued face down in such circumstances). Chauvin said that excited delirium is why Floyd need to stay on his stomach.

This is why Chauvin is charged with murder and the other officers require further investigation before charges can be leveled.

Supporting Evidence: Chauvin criminal complaint (www.documentcloud.org)
Side: Innocents don't resist arrest.
1 point

If Floyd was innocent of the accusation leveled against him all this suspect had to do was to prove the validity of the cheque which he had presented in payment for goods and the incident would have been immediately closed.

However, as his actions were those of a guilty person it is reasonable to strongly suspect that he was indeed a criminal who had fraudulently forged a cheque and didn't want to be caught.

Side: Innocents don't resist arrest.
excon(14412) Disputed
2 points

it is reasonable to strongly suspect that he was indeed a criminal who had fraudulently forged a cheque and didn't want to be caught.

Hello M:

It IS reasonable to SUSPECT him.. It's NOT reasonable to kill him.

excon

Side: He used phsyical force first.
Miocene(443) Disputed
1 point

The point here is that Floyd was reported by a store owner for fraudulently presenting a forged cheque as payment for goods received.

The police responded to the report of an offense and, according to the retailer, upon arriving at the scene of the alleged crime they were attacked by Floyd who continued to violently resist arrest.

Tragically, during the ensuing melee he was killed by asphyxiation.

If Floyd had been innocent he could have easily provided evidence of the authenticity of the cheque and the matter would had been resolved amicably.

However, in my view Floyd's actions indicated that he was as guilty as sin and his violent response to the investigating officers was a major contributory factor in his most unfortunate death.

Of course the rioters and looters don't want to consider the matter rationally and dispassionately but prefer to jump on the band wagon to be seen virtue signalling and to appropriate a few televisions and other househild goods free of charge.

Side: Innocents don't resist arrest.
2 points

He wasn't accused of forging a check, he was accused of passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill.

Can you prove the validity of every $20 you already spent?

"his actions were those of a guilty person"

and/or drunk, claustrophobic, etc.

Side: He used phsyical force first.
Amarel(5070) Clarified
1 point

None of that really matters. Lots of cops can identify a fake bill and Floyd technically resisted (violently or not) with the cuffs and at the squad car. Assume that the cops had valid reasons to have him in custody, fine. Once he is in custody his welfare is their responsibility. It doesn't matter why he is in custody. What matters in this case is what they did while he was in custody. The rest is fluff.

Side: He used phsyical force first.
atila(5) Clarified
1 point

What is the actual debate here? Are you stating that George Floyd was justifiably killed because 1) he used physical force first or 2) innocents don't resist arrest? Are these really the opposing forces in such an atrocity?

It's despicable that you write "apparent crime" like it wasn't a crime. What was it, then?

Side: He used phsyical force first.
1 point

So where is this new video showing George Floyd violently resisting arrest? Where's the link?

You know, if you don't have one that's not going to be good for your already weak credibility.

You keep repeating "violently resisting arrest". Put up or shut up.

Side: Innocents don't resist arrest.
JustIgnoreMe(4334) Clarified
1 point

This is as close as I have seen, but is still decidedly inconclusive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6isL2GlYwE

Side: He used phsyical force first.