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God has many names, Jehovah, Yahweh, God, Gott, Supreme Being, Father, Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit, etc. Nearly every language has a different name for God. I prefer Yahweh.
Yahweh is a proper noun. There is only one god whose name is Yahweh. The terms father, heavenly father, god, supreme being, holy spirit, jehovah, lord, almighty are all common nouns that apply to many gods, but there is only one name whereby I know my god.
Doth not the commandment, " Thou shalt have no other god above you" imply the existence of other gods whose name is not Yahweh?
The commandment 'though shalt have no other gods before me,' implies that when it was said, the peoples of the world were worshipping their own pagan gods, as did the Israelites whilst Moses was on the mountain (Sinai, right?). He is not saying the other gods existed, but rather that they must not take any others - regardless of their existence.
The commandment 'though shalt have no other gods before me,' implies that when it was said, the peoples of the world were worshipping their own pagan gods, as did the Israelites whilst Moses was on the mountain (Sinai, right?)
I do not agree.
The terms of the commandment do no support the inference: “…the peoples of the world were worshipping their own pagan gods, as did the Israelites whilst Moses was on the mountain (Sinai, right?)”. Your inference is not implied, it is an application of terms that lie outside the commandment. Moreover your inference is a non-sequitur fallacy, meaning literally: it does not follow.
( I do nonetheless agree with your assertions, yet they are not valid refutations of my argument.)
He is not saying the other gods existed, but rather that they must not take any others - regardless of their existence.
If other gods do not exist there is no necessity to forbid the worship of that which does not exist. Either they exist and should not be worshipped by the Israelites or they don’t exist and can never be worshipped by the Israelites; I recognize the former.
If other gods do not exist there is no necessity to forbid the worship of that which does not exist. Either they exist and should not be worshipped by the Israelites or they don’t exist and can never be worshipped by the Israelites; I recognize the former.
By worshipping other gods they are not being loyal to Yahweh. Judaism, as is Christianity and Islam, is a monotheistic religion. That means that they worship ONE god. They are to demostrate their belief to God (Yahweh, Jehovah, Father, etc.) in EVERYTHING that they do. Muslims are to pray five times a day. Would they be showing faith to Allah if they prayed to him 50 times a day but prayed to Zeus the rest of the time? I do not believe that Allah from Islam is the same god as Yahweh, but for the sake of argument I am equating them. I consider myself a Christian, but if I were to pray to Zeus I would become a pagan, just as if I were to worship my pet cat.
What I am trying to say is this: If they worship anything, wether it is or is not divine, they are showing a lack of both faith and trust in the god that they are supposed to be worshipping: Jehovah (don't get into the naming game again!)
Your initial argument implies there is only one god. Which according to the commandment I cited is obviously false. Next, you affirm that a name of god is god: “God has many names, Jehovah, Yahweh, God, Gott,”
While it is valid to claim that your god’s name is Yahweh, it is patently an abuse of our language to assert that the name of Yahweh is god. Yahweh is the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but god is not the name of Yahweh though he is a god.
The term god has a specific definition that denotes and connotes many entities (e.g. the golden calf),but the term Yahweh is a proper noun that is specific to one.
You should note I admitted in my initial argument my response is a red-herring, red-herring because I did not debate the question; for the question of this debate uses the term god as though it is a proper noun instead of a common noun. It is akin to the proposition: Deity is not Deity’s name.
(The proposition of this debate is logically invalid.)
God is a proper noun when referring to the Christian God, just as Allah is when referring to the Muslim god.
I am not saying that each name refers to a different god, but rather the same god.
Acts 19:26 "And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that man-made gods are no gods at all."
Carefully consider the following text of the KJV of the bible. You will find the Israelites, Aaron, Moses, and Yahweh recognized the golden calf as a god that was made with Aaron’s hands. Now, in the context of so many witnesses is Paul correct (as per your rebuttal- Acts 19:26) or is Aaron, Moses, and Yahweh correct?
Take note: Acts 19:26 is a quotation of Demetrius. The words are testimony of Demetrius, not Paul.
Exodus 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
32:6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Regarding names:
Let's assume your proper name is Terminator.
Would it be fair to rename you:
Son
Cousin
Nephew
Husband
Spouse
Student
Citizen
Consumer
Farmer
Adult
Child
Brother
Man
etc.?
Now, consider answering this question:
Who is your favorite person?
Son
Cousin
Nephew
Husband
Spouse
Student
Citizen
Consumer
Farmer
Adult
Child
Brother
Man
Do you see that a title is a common noun that is predicable of many individuals? A title answers the question what are you, yet a title does not indicate the name that distinguishes you from others of similar titles.
Terminator is not my name (too bad). You can refer to me as Russell. We'll see if anybody really reads these thigs if I start getting called Russell from now on.
Anyway, back to the debate.
I am some of those things listed. I can refute your entire argument with 2 Samuel 7:22:
Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
When the Bible talks about other gods, such as Ba'al, it makes itself clear that they are not real gods. According to a monotheistic religion (which both Christianity and Judaism are) there only exists one god that is true. Sure, other gods may exist, but only in the imaginations of it's followers. Zeus, for example, was the ruler of the Greek Gods. He himself, thus believed the Greeks, was a god. However, he was only a figment of their imaginations and a bunch of sculptures. He had no supernatural powers; he was neither omnipotent not omnipresent. All that he was was a statue of an ofttimes naked man worshipped by his 'followers.'
Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
Neither is there any God beside thee,
Pretty damning evidence, wouldn't you say?
That one verse says that God is the only God.
My previous argument is evidenced by Aaron, Moses, and Yahweh. All of which affirmed the existence of another god, the molten calf which, according to the Covenant is a transgression of the commandment, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Yet if we were to argue that there is no god but Yahweh, then the commandment itself is evidence that god has lied. And if there be no other god, then Yahweh punished Israel for worshipping other gods that in fact did not exist. But, as evidenced in my previous argument they did worship the molten calf as a god. Consequently, as a punishment of the transgression (sin), by the sword fell of the people three-thousand. Would we dare suggest 3000 were slain by the sword because they worshipped something that does not exist? Not I.(Read all of Exodus 32)
Is Exodus 32 the only record that confirms my argument? No, ISamuel 8 equally confirms the validity of my argument, particularly verse 8: “According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.” Now if we consider both ISamuel 8 and Exodus 32 there is ample evidence which leads to the conclusion that there are other gods whom Israel was punished for worshipping. Consequently, the commandment against such activities evidences that the Israelites were a stiff-necked people who transgressed the word of Yahweh.
Now, allow me to address your damning evidence.
Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
The meaning of IISamuel 7:22 is detailed in verses 21-29. Those verses are not evidencing the existence of one god; they are a testimony of the great things Yahweh has done for Himself and Israel. And hence the qualification in verse 22, “according to all that we have heard with our ears.”, for only Yahweh has done those things for Israel; no other god has done the same for Israel.
Conclusion: If there is only one god that exists then the commandment is invalid. And if the commandment is invalid then so to is the Covenant. And if the Covenant is invalid, then Yahweh is a liar.
The following may help reconcile your disagreement:
ICorinthians 8:4-6
5. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many)
Taken as whole both the Old Testament and the New Testament confirm the existence of other gods, however both Jew and Christian alike are commanded to obey the words of the Covenant and only worship Yahweh. Yet, we know there be Jews a many and Christians a many who have worshipped and served other gods despite the words of the Covenant. Shall their sins be of none effect because they believe they worship only one god? Well, I will simply say this, “Just because people worship one god is no argument that they are not worshipping some god other than Yahweh.”; though they believe there is only one god that can be worshipped.
Regarding names:
What is the name of the god of the Covenant with Israel?
What is the name of the savior of Israel?
What is the name of the deliverer of Israel?
What is the name of the [insert any common noun] of Israel?
Finally, the terms people have used to denote Yahweh are common nouns that are attributes of Yahweh which are equally predicable of gods and men. Albeit there is only one name whereby our God has identified himself and that name is YAHWEH. There is no other god with the name of Yahweh, but there be many gods that are deliverers, saviors, redeemers, etc, yet none of them hold the name YAHWEY.
(I supported your argument because of the effort you put forth in the rebuttal.)
If you think you can refute my argument and validate your argument I am willing to further consider your arguments.
Sheik Mohammad Buddah Jr. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
