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Debate Info

78
49
Yes he can No he cannot
Debate Score:127
Arguments:116
Total Votes:131
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes he can (58)
 
 No he cannot (47)

Debate Creator

Argolas(24) pic



God cannot possibly be omniscien, omnipotent, master and creator of all things

God is described in the bible as omniscient, omnipotent, master and creator of all things. Describe why you consider this is true or why you consider it cannot be true with objectivism.

Yes he can

Side Score: 78
VS.

No he cannot

Side Score: 49

The creator of the Sims is all of those things over the Sims' reality. Why would it be any different for our creator... It wouldn't. Poor logic is not your friend.

Side: Yes he can
3 points

So the players are the demigods then? ;)

Side: Yes he can
3 points

Whatever floats your boat.

Side: No he cannot
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

No they would not. Here is why

omniscien (sp) would be the power to predict every variable. As the sims have a random generator mod for the behavior, the programmer does not have absolute knowledge.

Omnipotent - the random generator in the sims, has them generate various priorities, no two games would be the same. The programmer would not be able to force a particular game without rewriting random elements away, which would remove free will, supposedly something god has granted.

The creator of the sims is a bad example, he didn't create the computer you play on, the monitor by which you experience the game or the packaging involved. Also the creator fo the sims requires a player as well.

Side: No he cannot
Negligentt(397) Disputed
2 points

omniscien (sp) would be the power to predict every variable. As the sims have a random generator mod for the behavior, the programmer does not have absolute knowledge.

Sure he would. He could stop it all at any time and look through and examine it for as long as he wants. And for all you know it's his own mind that is the mod.

Side: Yes he can
ApathyisRIP(19) Disputed
1 point

The creator of the Sims is in no shape or form all powerful or omniscient...

You merely have the power to do what is in the games programming.

Side: No he cannot
1 point

He's the programmer, which means he can change the program to do whatever he wants when he wants.

Side: Yes he can
3 points

God cannot possibly be Omniscient, Omnipotent, Master and creator of all things.

Yet when God is used to describe an axiom it is possible. Also we do not need a He to describe an axiom just God. As it is self-evident and thus shared as presumed to be true. Meaning it is not a test, presumed is close enough for those who carry life’s many burdens.

Not that the Axiom found in the word, by number “One nation under principle ( a guide to the common defence. 2016)” is by fact the axiom described by the bible which by intelligence may describe Gravity. Keep in mind the Bible is a compilation of many definitions to a word.

Side: Yes he can
3 points

yes he can everything God does no matter good or bad is for a reason and that reason is good his deeds that can possibly be deemed bad are all justified because his intentions were good

Side: Yes he can
2 points

He can be but the issue is that he can't both be that and then say that we have free will. Either he is our puppeteer or isn't omnipotent and omniscient.

Side: Yes he can
1 point

You can have the power to do anything and not use said power whenever you feel like sitting back and watching the show.

Side: Yes he can
2 points

Well he can be in so far as they made up the story he could be all those things and as a god therefore he can. It's kind of like saying Superman cannot possibly fly or bend steel or have X ray vision. The moment you entertain the idea that there could actually be a Superman you at least temporarily suspend the doubt that he could have those abilities.

Do I personally believe in either God or Superman and all their alleged powers? I don't know. I believe it long enough to entertain the story. But when the story is over I get back to the real world and live my life knowing I do not personally have the alleged abilities of either of them.

Side: Yes he can
2 points

God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal. Anything less is not God. Are you trying to make God stop being God? Why do you want God to stop being God and be something like you?

Side: Yes he can
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal. Anything less is not God. Are you trying to make God stop being God? Why do you want God to stop being God and be something like you?

Dear friend. Good morning.

I wish to examine your claim one again and see if it’s reasonable and rational or downright silly and irrational. After all if I was wrong I would like to know it, I just require a demonstration and rational argument of why. So if I am wrong, and you are a good Christian, can you do what the bible says in peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (NIV). I would hate to see you lose your should and not save mine by resorting to name calling or the inability to defend your position in a calm rational way and more importantly with reason.

P1 - omnipotent, omnipresent. Does God know what he's going to do tomorrow? If so, could he do something else?" If God knows what will happen, and does something else, he's not omniscient. If he knows and can't change it, he's not omnipotent.

P2 – omnipotent and eternal – if omnipotent can he will himself to cease to exist?

P3 - omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal – Can he not see, being all seeing, a reason to end his existence? If not how can he be all seeing? If he does not act on it how is he all powerfull?

P4 - Also what you’re describing in the two qualities are irrational. You cannot have a circular square. They are definitional opposed. Your god definition is essentially a contradiction in and of itself and therefor non-existent. Do you have any demonstration of a circular square?

P5 - Also God if he has these qualities is a moral monster. If I see a sexual molester going into a basement and I do not stop him, then I’m not a moral agent, I’m immoral. If god is everywhere and see’s all the ill, and does nothing till after the fact, he’s an immoral agent. That’s the difference, if I see the individual going down stairs, I will stop him (or try), and god just sits and says I’ll punish you after, but only if you don’t believe. Because the molester can still get into heaven if he repents, but me as a agent of god cannot. Such a being is not deserving of worship.

P6 - Also i don’t want god to stop being god, I would like some definition that is reasonable and not irrational that god exists before we actually discuss god.

P7 – are you trying to make god stop being god. This is an interesting question. You claim god is good, but there are example of him not being good in the bible. I’m not claiming god is not god, or that god is not good, I’m pointing to example of where your claim falls short. You claimed x. I point out your justification of x is not true or demonstrably false. It is not my fault that you are making unfounded claims and being irrational in the defense of the un-defendable.

P8 – If god was like me, he would be accountable for his actions and be able to learn and grow. Since he is all seeing, he can’t grow, learn and become better, which is probably why the new testament still supports slavery (slaves obey your master). . .

So as per peter 3:15, can you give reasons for your belief with gentleness and respect?

Side: No he cannot
NowASaint(1389) Clarified
1 point

I'm saved, I have eternal life, it is a gift from God and my faults or wrongs cannot cause God to deny the promise of eternal life which He has given me. The meekness I seek to practice and express is the meekness of Christ who openly rebuked people, called them names directly describing their character and their specific sins and pronouncing their undying doom in the fire of Hell according to their own steadfastness of defiance against God. You are a liar, you are of your father the devil, you are not a friend of mine. You need to be saved from Hell. I am being a friend to you by telling you the truth, yet you oppose the truth so you try to frame me as being like yourself which is not good enough to be saved. I am not good enough to be saved, nobody is nor can they be; yet I am saved, my sins are forgiven, paid for by God's own blood when He gave Himself as the ransom for the souls of all who will believe on Him and put their trust in Him. Now I have given you a reason for my hope, in spite of the fact that you quote from the fraudulent NIV which is the fake Bible of homosexuals.

You do not want to know that you are wrong. You assume you are right, you assume that it is not possible for you to exist in the fire of Hell being unable to get out of it, and you are on your way to that very fire; flying high and proud of yourself in the vanity of your imagination like a moth flying into the flames.

All you are doing is trying to confuse yourself, and you seem to be doing a pretty good job of it. How stupid of a question is it to ask if God can stop being God, and imply that God cannot be God if He is not able to stop being God. Don't you know that is how Satan attempts to take over God's throne, accusing God of not being good because He will not stop being God and let Satan do whatever in the name of Hell he feels like doing? You are thinking and talking like Satan, with one major difference: Satan knows he has lost and you think you are winning, and Satan gloats over you with hatred against you. You are being made a fool of while you make a fool of yourself.

Your whole line of reasoning is nonsense. You cannot make God stop being God, all you can do is keep yourself in confusion and be condemned by God when you try to make Him stop being God. You are being irrational and unreasonable.

If God were able to grow, the thing called God would not be God as God is omnipresent and not growing. He is the same as He always was and always will be, the Lord God Almighty without beginning or end, Creator of Heaven and Earth and all things in them. God made you to be like Him, but you prefer being like a devil going against God and trying to make God stop being God.

You will be accountable for your actions sure enough. You owe more than you can pay and you will serve your time paying as you are paying now in dying. It's going to be forever in the fire of Hell if you don't get saved from it. Your lines of reasoning are just too stupid for me to try to wade through the mud you pile on and around yourself trying to make yourself invisible to God.

Side: Yes he can
NowASaint(1389) Clarified
1 point

I do not respect lies, you present lies as truth, you are a liar, and if you feel I'm not being gentle and respectful in telling you of your sin, that's not my problem.

Side: Yes he can
1 point

Here is a little piece from rational wiki explaining the paradox in more detail .....

The paradox highlights cases where, in performing an action, an omnipotent being would be limiting its abilities (therefore rendering it very firmly not omnipotent); conversely if it was unable to perform such an action, it would also not be omnipotent. The paradox represents a reductio ad absurdum, with the conclusion that a truly omnipotent being cannot exist.

The most classic example of the paradox, a Morton's fork, is the "Paradox of the Stone":

Can an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that it cannot lift it?

If yes: the being's power is limited, because it cannot lift the stone.

If no: the being's power is limited, because it cannot create the stone.

Either way, the allegedly omnipotent being has proven not to be omnipotent due to the logical contradiction present in both possible answers.

The stone paradox can be substituted with similar examples. E.g. Could an omnipotent being create another being more powerful than itself? Could an omnipotent being destroy itself? Could he create a wall he cannot climb? Could he beat himself at arm-wrestling? And so on. The situation crops up numerous times in different wordings but all mean the same thing.

Some variations gives other useful consequences:

Can God create a cryptography/key exchange system so secure that he himself cannot crack/bypass?

If no: He does not have the ability to authenticate any of his revelations, and therefore he lacks omnipotence, and cannot authentically reveal anything to anyone.

If yes: He does not have the ability to bypass encryptions therefore he lacks omnipotence and omniscience.

Side: No he cannot
2 points

It can be resolved, actually, if we add the clause 'things that are logically possible' or 'non-absurd things' to omnipotence.

But fanatics want their deity to be beyond logic and reason, otherwise they can have some serious problems.

Side: Yes he can
2 points

Yes , I think I've heard all the arguments at this stage and they all smack of desperation

Side: Yes he can
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

Well that begs the question. .

are you aware of things that are not logically possible?

and if not, then why accept that as a possible answer to the solution of an omniscien, omnipotent, master and creator of all things

Side: No he cannot
1 point

You are beyond logic and reason to a single celled organism. To think we are smart enough to comprehend everything or everyone or every concept is stupidity and arrogance at the highest level.

Side: No he cannot
1 point

This is disputed simply by saying God can be multiple persons and do multiple things from an omnipotent or a non-omnipotent personage. It's a poor argument and lacks basic logic. Theoretically God could exist in ways that are unimaginable and in ways that refute your claim. There is a reason that you are not a philosopher.

Side: Yes he can
stswebb(73) Disputed
0 points

This argument always reeks of desperation to me. If God "exists in ways that are unimaginable", then what exactly is the tangible difference between that and a God not existing in the first place? Practically anything can be willed into existence with this pitiful "argument".

You might as well say that a gigantic, eight-foot tall bipedal crimson platypus exists in your living room in "ways that are unimaginable"

Saying that something does exist, but exists in such a way that its existence cannot be verified in any way is to make a claim which is impossible to disprove or prove and which can hence be dismissed pretty much immediately.

Side: No he cannot
1 point

Yes they're one and the same , I'm banned from all foam within debates because he's terrified of the qusetions I ask and cannot defend himself as he's a coward , his other persona behaves exactly the same was which confirms your assessment that they are the one person , another persona and it would be a trinity 🙀

Side: No he cannot
1 point

Well that didn't make a lick of fucking sense. Carry on.

Side: Yes he can
1 point

If God is creator of all thing, He therefore creation the very notion of Sin and is also creator of the notion of Evil. You can actually find it in the Old testament with his tree of the knowledge of good and Evil. That is already a very bad start for a supposedly loving God... Giving free will, he giving the opportunity to make the wrong choice.

Based on this, if God is omniscient, it means he already knew before end the outcome from giving a choice. Besides as we can observe our world nowadays, Evil is definitely winning.

Now the question is either God is omniscient and doesn't give a damn about us.

Or he cares but he had no clue and is therefore not omniscient neither omnipotent. Because if he is omnipotent, not only he doesn't give a damn but I really suspect he is absolutely sadistic, cruel and totally narcissist!!

Anyways, he can cannot be omniscient, omnipotent, master and creator of all things without being either sadistic, cruel, narcissist, indifferent, certainly not loving or all of this together!!

Side: No he cannot
1 point

Omniscience must be impossible, as one can never know if there is something they don't know that they don't know.

Side: No he cannot
1 point

If you can pause reality, you can always take as much time as is needed to know everything within whatever variable you are observing.

Side: Yes he can
Mack(534) Disputed
1 point

But how would you ever know you hadn't missed something, or if there was something outside of your plane of existence that was hidden from you?

Side: No he cannot
1 point

In order for "God" to be omniscient, omnipotent, etc. then he would be a paradox. An omniscient being should be able to do anything. The old can God create a rock even he can't lift. Can God render himself never God, never omniscient or omnipotent etc. If God is omniscient then he knows one any person will do ergo the outcome is already determined, fate. This creates a problem with the idea of free will because free will is supposed to be about making ones own choices. If an outcome is already fixed then one's choice has already been determined.

Side: No he cannot

In order for "God" to be omniscient, omnipotent, etc. then he would be a paradox. An omniscient being should be able to do anything. The old can God create a rock even he can't lift.

Well put, and absolutely true. You quickly learn that religious people are mentally ill when you make reasoned arguments like this and then read their responses.

Side: No he cannot
0 points

I wont say "HE" cannot, I am saying "HE" IS NOT. "HE" does nothing to stop disease, nothing to stop war, nothing to "straighten out" the confusion between religions, nothing to stop evil, nothing to stop cruelty, NOTHING! A "master" would at least show HE/SHE/ ITSELF often enough to BE what he is claimed to BE! To DO SOMETHING to make "It's" presents known! When I see it I'll believe it! Until then, science is the "creator" .... at least the explanation OF creation! I take mythology as what it seems to be, I'll take the Bible as what it seems to be ... a part of mythology. Allah to Zeus, mythology until I see at least an act of a "god" that can't be denied. I'm waiting, but, at 80, time is running out. I'm not holding my breath, it's been over 2000 years since "IT" has (allegedly) shown a possible "contact" with humanity, VERY allegedly. Even when I was young I couldn't hold my breath that long!

Side: No he cannot
outlaw60(15500) Clarified
2 points

Crazy AL do Muslims want to stop war ? The confusion of a religion is surely owned by you Progressives.

Side: Yes he can
2 points

I wont say "HE" cannot, I am saying "HE" IS NOT. "HE" does nothing to stop disease, nothing to stop war, nothing to "straighten out" the confusion between religions, nothing to stop evil, nothing to stop cruelty, NOTHING!

Neither do you. And you're the one he's waiting on to do something. We humans told him to butt out. He said, okay, then show me what you got. We didn't have anything. Humans keep demanding he do something, while doing nothing themselves and even feeding the problems. And besides, offering us an emotional appeal over an intellectual appeal is disgusting.

Side: Yes he can
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

So . . . lets go through this logically and with reason

p1 - you claim - Neither do you.

p1.1 - your response to someone claiming god doesn't stop evil and your response 'neither do you" is nonsense and non-sensicle. You don’t know if the individual your questioning opposes war and violence, what they do off line, who they vote for, where they donate time or money. so saying "na na na bo bo, you too." is not a reasonable or logical claim or argument. Rather then disprove the claim you attack the claimant.

p1.1b - I’m a parent, if i let my kids stab each other in the street and do nothing to stop it a I’m a rather crappy parent. If your god (you have yet to define reasonably or demonstrate exists) were to let people kill each other and does nothing to stop it, hes a rather crappy god.

P2 – your claim - And you're the one he's waiting on to do something.

P2.1 – whose the Shepard in your world view? Either he has some responbility for the world or he doesn’t. And again how do you know that the poster (or others) are not actually trying to make the world a better place?

P3 - We humans told him to butt out. He said, okay, then show me what you got.

P3.1 – I don’t know where you got this information. How did you find this out and where is your evidence for this?

P4 – you claim - We didn't have anything. Humans keep demanding he do something, while doing nothing themselves and even feeding the problems.

P4.1 – We have things, including ideas and language and other things. So I don’t know why you are making this obvious false claim. I’m not asking god to do anything, I’m asking your to demonstrate what you’re saying it true. I volunteer for batter women in court, I worked for a soup kitchen and suicide line, I work at a job where I assist other people and occasionally save lives and make life better for others. I don’t see your absolutisms a valid argument. I alone in my existence shows that statement false. OR . . . I completely don’t understand what your talking about.

P5 – you claim - And besides, offering us an emotional appeal over an intellectual appeal is disgusting.

P51.1 - ??????? have you read your own posts ????

Side: No he cannot
FromWithin(8239) Disputed
1 point

The bigots speaks again.............................................................................................

Why don't you go down to some abortion clinics and watch them kill viable babies, because this is what you support.

Spare us all your bigotry and insults towards people who do not think or believe as you.

Christians possess the humanity to care for our most vulnerable innocent lives. They make you look like an animal.

Side: Yes he can
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

One. . . I am not a bigot.

two. . . they do not let popcorn in the operation room. How can i possibly watch anything without popcorn.

three. . . . God flooded the world till rid the world of sin, either he is a weak ass god who can't stop sin (cause were still sinners) or your holy book is more hole ridden then holy.

Side: No he cannot
0 points

Why don't you go down to some abortion clinics and watch them kill viable babies, because this is what you support.

Why don't you kill yourself to meet your god, because that is what you believe.

Ah, stain, you can create any number of accounts - the way you are an idiot and can't help feeling uncomfortable against me is decisive in spotting you. I see that you're at it again.

Side: No he cannot
jeffreyone(1368) Clarified
1 point

Perhaps if God stops war he is interfering in free will right?

Interfering in everything portray us slaves and we live without our own choices(politics, career, emotional etc.) but how he solely wants it.

It's pathetic when you atheists complain about freewill and God being ignorant at the same time.

What do you want?

God should give me freedom to go clubing. God saids ok.

You go to the club, engage in a fight, get shot and you blame God for making it happen?

Stupid atheists.

Side: Yes he can
Dermot(5796) Disputed
1 point

You fall into every trap like the dumb brute you are ..........

… "Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest 'He knows', then it necessarily follows that man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God's knowledge would be imperfect.…"

When do atheists ' complain ' about free will ?

You claim atheists are stupid yet you demonstrate how incredibly dense you are with every word you type .

Side: Yes he can
Argolas(24) Disputed
1 point

Free will is going totally against God being omniscient. If he knows all possible output to everyone choice, he really is thirsty for blood!! Look at the word! Do you trust a God that claims he knows everything and can do anything, and let's us fuck up the world?

Not very wise the loving God or utterly cruel and enjoying the show!!

Side: No he cannot
Argolas(24) Disputed
1 point

Free will is going totally against God being omniscient. If he knows all possible output to everyone choice, he really is thirsty for blood!! Look at the word! Do you trust a God that claims he knows everything and can do anything, and let's us fuck up the world?

Not very wise the loving God or utterly cruel and enjoying the show!!

Side: No he cannot
Nathanduclos(43) Disputed
1 point

Thank you for your post. I hope the day finds you well and good and you had some questions so I will attempt to answer them. So . . . .

P1 – you claim - Perhaps if God stops war he is interfering in free will right?

P1.1 It depends, can you define freewill? I think the term is silly and non-sensicle and even irrational. But as my definition will probably differ then yours I would need to know how you use it vs I use it and see if we can find common ground, or how you use it so I can answer your question.

P2 – you claim - Interfering in everything portray us slaves and we live without our own choices (politics, career, emotional etc.) but how he solely wants it.

P2.1 as opposed to you better believe in me or rot in hell. If my existence for most of time is one of an infinite amount of torture, how is he not interfering? He made the rules for going to hell then set up a universe where I require reasonble and rational beliefs, how is that not interference?

P3 –you claim - It's pathetic when you atheists complain about freewill and God being ignorant at the same time.

P3.1 How so? What specifically is pathetic about it?

P4 – you claim – What do you want?

P4.1 – a lot of things. However when discussing god with theist. I want a rational definition of god, a demonstration or rational argument for that god and not necessary but it would be nice after presenting no rational reason to believe in god they admit it.

P5 – you claim - God should give me freedom to go clubbing. God said ok.You go to the club, engage in a fight, get shot and you blame God for making it happen?

P5.1 – that is a ridicules claim and straw man. You went to a club, you engaged in a fight. You god shot. Unless you were going to kill someone and the person who shoot you was acting in self defense or defense of another, the person who shot you is to blame. If your going to construct an argument over freewill and accountability, and this is your best argument your position that “I” am being “stupid” is not reasonable or rational.

P5.2 - The main argument I hear from atheist is ‘its irrational for god to give me choice based on no evidence (or lack of evidence) and then punish me for eternity for being sceptical about his existence when it’s the rational reasonable choice” I don’t think that is stupid, do you?

P6 – you claim - Stupid atheists.

P6.1 – that is claim that requires a demonstration of proof and definition. Are you referring to the position, the unique individual atheist as a whole or just cherry picking some of them? Are they stupid compared to other non-atheists? You are being unclear, perhaps if you explain yourself better I might agree or at least be able to test your claim.

Peter 3:15 – you are required by the bible to give reasons for your faith in civil discourse. Is name calling really something your bible supports?

Side: Yes he can