God- myth or reality?
Myth
Side Score: 56
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Reality
Side Score: 41
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Where is proof these things do not exist? The paucity of evidence confirming their existence can be taken as grounds for their falseness. Aliens among your list as well? No. Their is a precedent - us. All of quantum mechanics? I doubt very much that you know much about quantum mechanics. Side: Myth
You, sir, jump to ridiculous assumptions. Every myth you have noted herein contains a foundation of truth for said "myths". Atlantis? Both Venice and LA are sinking, slowly. That's no myth. Nessie? Perhaps the people of Inverness didn't quite understand what animal they saw, they only know it had certain features. The ocean is so vast not even the US government can say what lurks beneath. king Arthur was based on an Anglo-Saxon ruler who made his fort on the very hill fabled to be Camelot. I now ask you; where is your evidence that these "myths" were not, or are not a reality? Is it not possible that our Lord, God is a being who has been made into a myth? People tell stories of him that may be based on fact, but have been broken down into outrageous plays on words? Play broken telephone- infact, go back to pre-school. You will understand that what one person says about something describes a whole different matter to another. Side: Reality
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You, sir, jump to ridiculous assumptions. One does not jump to an assumption, but a conclusion. Every myth you have noted herein contains a foundation of truth for said "myths". A parallel is neither a foundation of truth nor evidence for a particular event. Both Venice and LA are sinking, slowly. And this posits the existence of Atlantis... how? Nessie? Perhaps the people of Inverness didn't quite understand what animal they saw, they only know it had certain features. That is useless conjecture. It is not even known whether it was an animal or not. The ocean is so vast not even the US government can say what lurks beneath. Loch Ness is not part of the ocean. king Arthur was based on an Anglo-Saxon ruler who made his fort on the very hill fabled to be Camelot. A man building a fort on a hill named in a myth does not mean that the myth's assertions concerning magical swords, warlocks and witches are also true. I now ask you; where is your evidence that these "myths" were not, or are not a reality? You do not need to produce evidence that something does not exist or is not true, if there is no evidence proving otherwise. For example, the only evidence proving that leprechauns do not exist is the fact that nobody has ever captured one, or as far as we know seen one. That does not mean that they exist. Is it not possible that our Lord, God is a being who has been made into a myth? Insofar as he was a myth from the beginning, yes. People tell stories of him that may be based on fact, but have been broken down into outrageous plays on words? The most basic assertions about deities are highly improbable and without foundation. Play broken telephone- infact, go back to pre-school. You will understand that what one person says about something describes a whole different matter to another. The Bible has been proven to have contained the same content since 150 BCE. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Side: Myth
You cannot prove to me that he does not exist I don't need to. the evidence is in creation Effect cannot be the evidence of it's own cause. in the power of the Bible, in the hearts and minds of his people argumentum ad populum- That something is true because lots of people believe it. the proof is all around you you simply have to look That there are Trees, Mountains, valleys, and Oceans in no way prove God created them. They are just as likely, if not infinitely moreso likely that they came about by the means described by modern science. Side: Myth
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You cannot prove to me that he does not exist I cannot disprove the existence of leprechauns either. the evidence is in creation Actually, there is absolutely no evidence for the theory of creation whatsoever, beyond unsubstantiated claims in the literature which first described it. in the power of the Bible All books have power. That does not imply that everything or even anything within them is true. in the hearts and minds of his people Argumentum ad populum. Invalid. Side: Myth
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All u have to consider is; did the christians crying for help while the lions tore them apart - get help? How about all the jews in those big ovens - were they rescued by devine intervention or were their just toast? If there is a god - he or she doest care what the hell happens to you. If there was a true "god" there would be no problems no sickness no crimes. U can pray all u want - nobody hears or he doesn't care. It would be great for something to esist that actu!lly cared what happens to us - but next time u need help - call on "god" and then hold your breathe - we need more smurfs. U don't need to prove he exists -he needs to prove he is real and deserves us to pray to him. I don't know anyone - that has got their prays answeered. I know he has never helped me. To make a universe - one has to be powerful so why can not help. The bible is so full of crap it isn't funny - bible wrote by church - wrotfe to try to have us do as they wish When it is your time to go - you will go. There is something on the other side - I believe that, but I can't believe in a myth that doesn't ord can't stand up for itself. I believe in nessie,yeti,aliens but I do have problems with a higher power that "can answer all problems". He ha~ in my opinion he has yet to prove he exists - he needs to answer prays or at least - take us to a place that is way more peaceful than this earth. Side: Myth
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okay now there are two things in the beam balance here.....faith and rationality.... i am as much a believer as any body else but you see i believe in things that can happen......something that does not have scientific backing just cannot be proclaimed god..........for if that was the case the Inca lines were a god the bermuda triangle was a god...............if we believed in all the above then we must shed science and probably think that "yeah man an hour in the sun might impress the sun lord helios and he may be benevolent or maybe found an 'atmospheric cure for AIDS..........friends science has not broken the labyrinth of several things.UFO's for instance and miracles to fall under this category......DO you mean to say that just because there are miracles we accept god exits.....so what the opposition implies is that since there are UFOs and no science explanation we take that as God too and yeah take E.T as our religious scripture!!......be rational .....get a life!!! Side: Myth
Let's use Scientific Method to establish a possibility for a single entity known as "God". 1) Create a drawing of two people and a tree. 2) Look at said picture. 3) What are the objects in the picture doing? Do they move? Do they talk? Thus, what you have just created must follow laws and governance that you impose. The people can not move, can not see, and presumably cannot love. Thus, you have made a kind of world or universe, in which objects can and cannot do certain things. Now imagine God as the person drawing the picture. He can love and think and draw. He can talk, walk, move. The picture can only stand still. Thus, what a creator can and cannot do is not necessarily what the creation can or cannot do. We cannot do anything without scientific knowledge or logic backing us. I can not fly, can you? I can't walk on water or shoot fire from my eyes. But I am a creation, thus we are a drawing, standing still. God is the artist. Side: Reality
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Let's use Scientific Method to establish a possibility for a single entity known as "God". What is written below is an analogy, not science. 1) Create a drawing of two people and a tree. 2) Look at said picture. 3) What are the objects in the picture doing? Do they move? Do they talk? Thus, what you have just created must follow laws and governance that you impose. The people can not move, can not see, and presumably cannot love. Thus, you have made a kind of world or universe, in which objects can and cannot do certain things. It is not a universe, it is a piece of paper upon which sit a few squiggly lines of graphite. Now imagine God as the person drawing the picture. He can love and think and draw. He can talk, walk, move. Imagining analogous scenarios does not equate to evidence, such as would support a scientific model. Side: Myth
Let's use Scientific Method to establish a possibility for a single entity known as "God". 1) Create a drawing of two people and a tree. 2) Look at said picture. 3) What are the objects in the picture doing? Do they move? Do they talk? So according to your understanding of the Scientific Method, there are only three steps? Only in creationists literature, does the scientific Method require you to: -Look at subject -Jump to conclusion Side: Myth
What is that supposed to mean get a life? Science does not disprove God? How can it, you cannot use the natural to explain the supernatural. That is preposterous, although there is very little in the way of science to conclusively say God exists that means very little. Actually just because there are miracles you ought to accept that God exists because the scriptures say that God performed miracles in order to show us that he exists and to prove the truth of scripture, once his revelation (The Bible) was complete scriptures teach us that miracles ceased to exist in the same form as they were before, this is why such miracles are no longer observed and maybe partially why science cannot be the judge about the existence of God. Side: Reality
What is that supposed to mean get a life? Science does not disprove God? How can it You are correct. you cannot use the natural to explain the supernatural If the supernatural produces an effect on the natural, then we should be able to measure this effect. However it would be impossible to link any measurable effect to any supernatural phenomena. Then on what basis can we say that the supernatural exists at all? although there is very little in the way of science to conclusively say God exists that means very little As science is the most historically reliable faculty of information verification, I think it says a lot. Only on other less reliable faculties can you assert it's truth. you ought to accept that God exists because the scriptures say that God performed miracles Yet I doubt the veracity of scripture. Why should I believe it over any other religious texts which hold precisely the same amount of scientific evidence: none? Side: Myth
A Study of Morality At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price. The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,
Thanks for any insight. Side: Reality
The best evidence for God's non-existence, is the absence of evidence for his existence. All other things in which we know exist that we can prove exist, are either visible or measurable. God is neither. God is either the sole entity in the universe which possesses neither of theses qualities simultaneously, or he resides only in our imaginations. Side: Myth
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You realize any evidence will be provided on the right side of this page? I haven't seen you refute any evidence yet? You expect people to read this side then re post their debates? you basically are saying we should restart the entire debate under your stupid comment that does nothing to "fuel" the debate, if you will. Side: Reality
Look, how long has this been argued? God, in my opinion, like the number I in math, is simply an figment of imagination in humans to explain the unexplainable or to simply derive comfort that someone is out there to look after us. Which is kind of feeble considering all the sins in the world. And if there was a god, or at the very least a creator, would he even bother whether it was being worshiped or not? Side: Myth
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God is as real as everything else in this world. Your wife's/girlfriends boobs, bought and paid for. That car you can't afford. Telling everybody what a wonder life you have, when it sucks like everybody elses. Nothing is real and so it puts everything in the same reality. You are just a myth as well, there is no proof of your existance. Side: Reality
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Tell me something that is real beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is impossible to do this. Prove to me that you are real. If you can prove you are real, I can do the same with God. I have never seen you, therefore you are not real. You are only real to someone that believes you are. This is reality. Side: Reality
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10 Reasons To Believe In The Existence Of God
The Inevitability Of Faith Everyone believes in something. No one can endure the stress and cares of life without faith in something that cannot ultimately be proven. Atheists cannot prove there is no God. Pantheists cannot prove that everything is God. Pragmatists cannot prove that what will count for them in the future is what works for them now. Nor can agnostics prove that it is impossible to know one way or the other. Faith is unavoidable, even if we choose to believe only in ourselves. What is to be decided is what evidence we think is pertinent, how we are going to interpret that evidence, and who or what we are willing to believe in (Luke 16:16). The Limitations Of Science Scientific method is limited to a process defined by that which is measurable and repeatable. By definition, it cannot speak to issues of ultimate origin, meaning, or morality. For such answers, science is dependent on the values and personal beliefs of those who use it. Science, therefore, has great potential for both good and evil. It can be used to make vaccines or poisons, nuclear power plants or nuclear weapons. It can be used to clean up the environment or to pollute it. It can be used to argue for God or against Him. Science by itself offers no moral guidance or values to govern our lives. All science can do is show us how natural law works, while telling us nothing about its origins. The Problems Of Evolution Some have assumed that an evolutionary explanation of life would make God unnecessary. This overlooks some problems. Even if we assume that scientists will someday find enough "missing links" to confirm that life appeared and developed gradually over great periods of time, laws of probability would still show the need for a Creator. As a result, many scientists who believe in evolution believe also that the universe in all of its immensity and complexity did not "just happen." Many feel compelled to acknowledge the possibility or even likelihood of an intelligent designer who provided the ingredients for life and set in motion the laws by which it developed. The Habits Of The Heart Mankind has been described as incurably religious. In unguarded moments of trouble or surprise, in prayer or in profanity, references to deity persist. Those who would dismiss such thoughts as bad habits or social vices are left with unanswerable questions. Denying the existence of God does not dispel the mysteries of life. Attempts to exclude God from the language of civil life does not eliminate the persistent longing for more than this life has to offer (Ecclesiastes 3:11). There is something about truth, beauty, and love that makes our hearts ache. Even in our anger with a God who would permit injustice and pain, we draw upon a moral conscience to argue that life is not as it ought to be (Romans 2:14-15). Even unwillingly, we are drawn to something that is more rather than less than ourselves. The Background Of Genesis On first reading, the opening words of the Bible seem to assume the existence of God. Genesis, however, was written at a point of time in history. Moses wrote, "In the beginning God" after Israel's exodus from Egypt. He wrote after miraculous events that were said to have been witnessed by millions of Jews and Egyptians. From the Exodus to the coming of Messiah, the God of the Bible rests His case on events witnessed in real time and locations. Anyone who doubted the claims could visit real places and people to check out the evidence for themselves. The Nation Of Israel Israel is often used as an argument against God. Many find it difficult to believe in a God who would be partial to a "chosen people." Others find it even harder to believe in a God who would not protect His "chosen nation" from the boxcars, gas chambers, and ovens of Auschwitz and Dachau. Yet from the beginning of Old Testament history, Israel's future was prewritten. Together with other prophets, Moses predicted not only Israel's possession of the land but also her unparalleled suffering and dispersion throughout the whole earth, her eventual repentance, and then finally her last-days restoration (Deuteronomy 28-34; Isaiah 2:1-5; Ezekiel 37-38). The Claims Of Christ Many who doubt the existence of God have reassured themselves with the thought, "If God wanted us to believe in Him, He would appear to us." According to the Bible, that is what God has done. Writing in the 7th century BC, the prophet Isaiah said that God would give His people a sign. A virgin would bear a son who would be called "God with us" (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Isaiah said this Son would be called, "Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). The prophet also said that this child would die for His people's sins before seeing His life prolonged and honored by God (Isaiah 53). According to the New Testament, Jesus claimed to be that Messiah. Under the oversight of a Roman governor named Pontius Pilate, He was crucified on charges that He claimed to be the king of Israel and that He had represented Himself as being equal with God (John 5:18). The Evidence Of Miracles The reports of the first followers of Jesus agree that He did more than just claim to be the long-awaited Messiah. These witnesses said He won their trust by healing paralytics, walking on water, and then voluntarily dying a painful, undeserved death before rising from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-8). Most compelling was their claim that many witnesses had seen and talked to Christ after finding His tomb empty and before watching Him ascend visibly into the clouds. These witnesses didn't have anything on earth to gain by their claims. They had no hopes of material wealth or power. Many became martyrs, claiming to the end that the long-awaited Messiah of Israel had lived among them, that He had become a sacrifice for sin, and that He had risen from the dead to assure them of His ability to bring them to God. The Details Of Nature Some who believe in God do not take His existence seriously. They reason that a God great enough to create the universe would be too big to be concerned about us. Jesus, however, confirmed what the design and detail of the natural world suggest. He showed that God is great enough to care about the smallest details of our lives. He spoke of one who not only knows every move we make but also the motives and thoughts of our heart. Jesus taught that God knows the number of hairs on our head, the concerns of our heart, and even the condition of a fallen sparrow (Psalm 139; Matthew 6). The Voice Of Experience The Bible says that God designs the circumstances of our lives in a way that will prompt us to look for Him (Acts 17:26). For those who do reach out for Him, the Scriptures also say that He is close enough to be found (Acts 17:27). According to the apostle Paul, God is a Spirit in whom "we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28). The Bible makes it just as clear, however, that we must reach out for God on His terms rather than our own. He promises to be found, not by just anyone but by those who admit their own need and are willing to trust Him rather than themselves. If you do see the evidence for the God who revealed Himself to us through His Son, then keep in mind that the Bible says Christ died to pay the price for our sins, and that all who believe in Him will receive the gifts of forgiveness and everlasting life. The salvation Christ offers is not a reward for effort but a gift to all who in light of the evidence put their trust in Him (John 5:24; Romans 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-10. Side: Reality
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1. Everyone believes in something. No one can endure the stress and cares of life without faith in something that cannot ultimately be proven. Atheists cannot prove there is no God. Pantheists cannot prove that everything is God. Pragmatists cannot prove that what will count for them in the future is what works for them now. Nor can agnostics prove that it is impossible to know one way or the other. Faith is unavoidable, even if we choose to believe only in ourselves. What is to be decided is what evidence we think is pertinent, how we are going to interpret that evidence, and who or what we are willing to believe in How does the fact that people make assumptions in any prove or even suggest the existence of God. Scientific method is limited to a process defined by that which is measurable and repeatable. By definition, it cannot speak to issues of ultimate origin, meaning, or morality. This is untrue. Much of science actually does deal with origins of various natural phenomena. If it is possible to learn about early conditions, then it is also possible to develop a hypothesis. We do not need to replicate an origin, only that we must show that the forces involved would act in a particular way under the same circumstances which is consistent with known facts. Science by itself offers no moral guidance or values to govern our lives. All science can do is show us how natural law works, while telling us nothing about its origins. Even if this were true, how would this prove the existence of God? laws of probability would still show the need for a Creator. I was unable to find 'said "Laws of Probability" I was however able to find "Probability Theory". Which according to Thewayitis, theories are just guesses. At any rate, I don't see how the occurrence of random phenomena would requisite a creator. Mankind has been described as incurably religious. In unguarded moments of trouble or surprise, in prayer or in profanity, references to deity persist. Those who would dismiss such thoughts as bad habits or social vices are left with unanswerable questions. Denying the existence of God does not dispel the mysteries of life. I don't think anybody has argued that it did. In fact, I would go further to say that belief in God in some cases discourages us from looking further into the matter to discover casual relationship within nature. Why look at how mountains form, when you already know GOD DID IT? It is only through accepting these mysteries that we can begin to look for the answers. those who think they already have the answers are only fooling themselves. On first reading, the opening words of the Bible seem to assume the existence of God. Genesis, however, was written at a point of time in history. Moses wrote, "In the beginning God" after Israel's exodus from Egypt. He wrote after miraculous events that were said to have been witnessed by millions of Jews and Egyptians. From the Exodus to the coming of Messiah, the God of the Bible rests His case on events witnessed in real time and locations. Anyone who doubted the claims could visit real places and people to check out the evidence for themselves. How do we distinguish myth from historical record? We do not know that these events ever took place, because we were not there. Only that they were written about, does not mean they happened. Israel is often used as an argument against God. Many find it difficult to believe in a God who would be partial to a "chosen people." Others find it even harder to believe in a God who would not protect His "chosen nation" from the boxcars, gas chambers, and ovens of Auschwitz and Dachau. Yet from the beginning of Old Testament history, Israel's future was prewritten. Together with other prophets, Moses predicted not only Israel's possession of the land but also her unparalleled suffering and dispersion throughout the whole earth, her eventual repentance, and then finally her last-days restoration (Deuteronomy 28-34; Isaiah 2:1-5; Ezekiel 37-38). An example of self-fulfilling prophesy. http://www.answers.com/topic/ Many who doubt the existence of God have reassured themselves with the thought, "If God wanted us to believe in Him, He would appear to us." According to the Bible, that is what God has done. Writing in the 7th century BC, the prophet Isaiah said that God would give His people a sign. A virgin would bear a son who would be called "God with us" (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). The very same verse says "his name will be Immanuel". Which is not what jesus' name is. This is one of the reasons modern Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah, because he didn't fulfill all the prophecies. The reports of the first followers of Jesus agree that He did more than just claim to be the long-awaited Messiah. These witnesses said He won their trust by healing paralytics, walking on water, and then voluntarily dying a painful, undeserved death before rising from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-8). Most compelling was their claim that many witnesses had seen and talked to Christ after finding His tomb empty and before watching Him ascend visibly into the clouds. These witnesses didn't have anything on earth to gain by their claims. They had no hopes of material wealth or power. Many became martyrs, claiming to the end that the long-awaited Messiah of Israel had lived among them, that He had become a sacrifice for sin, and that He had risen from the dead to assure them of His ability to bring them to God. Again, assuming scriptures are indeed accurate. Some who believe in God do not take His existence seriously. They reason that a God great enough to create the universe would be too big to be concerned about us. Jesus, however, confirmed what the design and detail of the natural world suggest. He showed that God is great enough to care about the smallest details of our lives. He spoke of one who not only knows every move we make but also the motives and thoughts of our heart. Jesus taught that God knows the number of hairs on our head, the concerns of our heart, and even the condition of a fallen sparrow (Psalm 139; Matthew 6). Again, assuming scriptures are indeed accurate. The Bible says that God designs the circumstances of our lives in a way that will prompt us to look for Him (Acts 17:26). For those who do reach out for Him, the Scriptures also say that He is close enough to be found (Acts 17:27). According to the apostle Paul, God is a Spirit in whom "we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28). The Bible makes it just as clear, however, that we must reach out for God on His terms rather than our own. He promises to be found, not by just anyone but by those who admit their own need and are willing to trust Him rather than themselves. If you do see the evidence for the God who revealed Himself to us through His Son, then keep in mind that the Bible says Christ died to pay the price for our sins, and that all who believe in Him will receive the gifts of forgiveness and everlasting life. The salvation Christ offers is not a reward for effort but a gift to all who in light of the evidence put their trust in Him (John 5:24; Romans 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-10. Like the other two paragraphs, the problem with using scripture as evidence for God, is that scripture could only be accurate if God already existed which is the very thing being disputed. You are begging the question. In order to be persuasive, consider your audience and use agreed upon facts that lend credibility to your position. Side: Myth
Look, those miracles of Moses opening the Red Sea and Jesus walking on water was documented few hundreds years ago when people didn't even know what is gravity. And if you can travel in time machine and shoot them with a gun, the act would be recorded as an act of miracle by the future generation. That is, if they can avoid exaggerating, which is what all historians are prone to. Side: Myth
Yes but you can't explain these miracles anymore than you can actually certify what gravity truly is. Is gravity actually the "trampoline effect" or any of the other explanations. Just because they didn't understand what they were documenting doesn't mean it was false. (oh and they did understand what they were documenting. Miracles.) Side: Reality
I'm still waiting for someone to explain all the documented cases of miracles that have taken place in history. Well seeing as miracles defy the laws of nature, and science has shown nature to be unforgiving towards those who try to break her laws, the miracles are impossible and self-refuting. Is that good enough for you? Side: Myth
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Who made the laws of nature? Mankind. Just because someone deemed it as a law of nature, doesn't me that it is not a miracle. Ever seen a new born baby? It is a miracle that something that started out as a sperm and egg can become life. It is not someone's law that produced their first steps or words. Side: Reality
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