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God vs. Aliens
If humans found life somewhere else in the universe, what would that say about God? Would he exist? Would we never be faced with this scenario anyways?
Well I mean I'm an atheist so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this, but I sort of figured that religions would just adapt. Where once they claimed the Earth was the center of the universe, most now accept we orbit the Sun and simply claim that God placed us in 'perfect orbit' deliberately.
Currently, most religions claim God created humankind as the only intelligent species. Maybe one day they'll instead say that God created many intelligent species. Religions grow with society (sometimes not quite as quickly as we would like), don't see why aliens would change that.
Side-note, I thought this debate was going to be about who would win in a fight between the Christian God and an alien, and man oh man was I excited to see what people had to say about that!
Angels were created as Cherubim, Seraphim.....as far as I know, those are the only two kinds of angels. Angels who followed Lucifer, The Shining One, as he rebelled and turned into The Adversary, Satan, probably had different kinds of angels among their ranks....don't know, but they changed into self-centered creatures who believed they had the right to exist outside of Hell as they defied God thinking they could overthrow His Kingdom and be it's overlords.
This whole "alien" thing is an illusion, a deception. God said He would send strong delusion to people who are in rebellion against Him. You will believe just about anything when you won't believe God made you in His own image and you are fallen into the likeness of a self-centered demon who fights against God thinking you can secure eternal exemption from punishment.
There's no such thing as "aliens". God created everything that lives, and yes He knew some would turn on Him and rebel, and He knew that in order to justify keeping those rebels in Hell and prevent another rebellion, He Himself would have to pay the price of death to save His creatures who come to Him out of their rebellion seeking His mercy. He is risen from the dead, Jesus, and willing to forgive all who will repent of their sin and believe on Him and receive Him by faith in honest appeal petitioned before God in prayer seeking pardon.
Delusions like "aliens" are only promoted by devils to distract you and prevent you from facing reality so that the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ and His victory over death cannot shine through your darkened mind to give you new and eternal life to be saved from the "aliens" Hell fire.
When I copy and paste something, though I usually do not give the website link I think it's pretty obvious that it was copy and pasted. Most of my stuff is my own words, my own style. I have been an avid reader most of my life, until so much of it seemed to be repetitive and I am an aspiring author. I've written some pretty good poems and hymns which are not copyrighted and I will not show here.
I would have ignored you which has been my general rule when I see your name due to your consistently abusive and insulting manners, but I noticed that you flattered me a bit by implying I'm copy and pasting my arguments when they flow from my own hands as guided by my own choice or words....and I thank God for in His mercy allowing me to do it. Praise the Lord, as long as I have any breath I will praise the Lord.....if the time comes when I must breath but can no longer speak, I have written the words of the testimony He has given me, and it is framed on the wall above my bed. I will praise the Lord as long as I live, and in heaven I will serve Him with joy forever as He created me for His pleasure and it's all for good to those who love God.
I'm sure you appreciate my response, and your level of appreciation leads me to return to ignoring you as I have been.
I didn't know it was possible to write the "wanking" gesture without actually using the word, but somehow SaintNow has managed. Well done, you're wankier and wankier every day.
It wouldn't disprove god as a concept but Christianity would have to contend with the fact that it says this universe is all for us and everything is fine tuned for us. That doesn't make much sense anymore if there's other life especially if it's intelligent
Thank you for stating what is commonly considered Christian teaching. It is also commonly considered that the Bible is the authority of Christian teaching, as Jesus Christ of the Bible is the Cornerstone, the foundation on which all precepts taught in the Bible are set down. I hope you will not take offense as I show from the Bible that the things you have been told are Christian concepts are not from the Bible and therefore not Christian in reality. If you can agree on this logic regarding the authority of Christian faith, then read on here as I show you from the Bible what Christianity really teaches in the brief statements you ascribed with no Biblical support to Christianity. If you don't care what the Bible says about your statements regarding Christian concept, then read no further.
The faith of God in Jesus Christ who is God incarnate, the Son of God, is logical and reasonable without fail. If you will logically and reasonably consider the facts, I think you will come into agreement with God and believe His word and trust in the Risen Savior. Maybe not, but I think it's worth a try because God loves you.....so the first point regarding your brief summary of some teachings commonly said to be Christian:
1) Christianity, defined Biblically, does not teach that "this universe is for all us".
Revelation 4:11 clearly states God did not create the universe for us, but rather for Himself, for His own pleasure and His own purpose......"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Rev 4:11)
2) Christianity, defined Biblically, does not teach that "everything is fine tuned for us".
The Bible teaches that the whole universe is messed up, and not "fine tuned".
Genesis 1:31 states "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good."
It was not "fine tuned", it was perfect. There was nothing bad in what God made. It became the mess it is today, which may or may not be considered "fine tuned", after the curse of death was enforced against Adam and Eve's rebellion. The whole universe is out of tune, not fine tuned. The harmony God created has been disrupted by sin, and the whole universe is falling apart.
Romans 5:20..."Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
Because of Adam's sin, the ground, the entire universe, is under the curse of death.
Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of they wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for they sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of they life;:
Romans 8:20-21 shows the whole creation, "the creature" is in bondage of corruption and not "fine tuned" and will one day be cleansed, purged, delivered from that evil which has disrupted the harmony.
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
In this passage, God's purpose and plan for His creation is shown to only be interrupted by sin.
Sinners are intelligent life forms, there is no question of that.
Being intelligent does not ensure that a person knows what they are doing.
When you are talking about what Christianity teaches, if you are not in agreement with what the Bible says, you are talking about a fake Christianity which is what most people in the world today call Christian.
I hope this helps you when you are explaining Christian concepts.
If you don't care what the Bible says about your statements regarding Christian concept, then read no further.
I care what it says if we're discussing discrepancies in the context of the Christian doctrine. If we're talking about the bibles actual testament to the reality of god then no I don't care what it says.
The faith of God in Jesus Christ who is God incarnate, the Son of God, is logical and reasonable without fail. If you will logically and reasonably consider the facts, I think you will come into agreement with God and believe His word and trust in the Risen Savior. Maybe not, but I think it's worth a try because God loves you.....so the first point regarding your brief summary of some teachings commonly said to be Christian:
1) Christianity, defined Biblically, does not teach that "this universe is for all us".
Revelation 4:11 clearly states God did not create the universe for us, but rather for Himself, for His own pleasure and His own purpose......"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Rev 4:11)
Wow what a narcissistic douchebag. Also that isn't logical at all.
2) Christianity, defined Biblically, does not teach that "everything is fine tuned for us".
The Bible teaches that the whole universe is messed up, and not "fine tuned".
Genesis 1:31 states "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good."
It was not "fine tuned", it was perfect.
That basically means the same thing.
There was nothing bad in what God made. It became the mess it is today, which may or may not be considered "fine tuned", after the curse of death was enforced against Adam and Eve's rebellion. The whole universe is out of tune, not fine tuned. The harmony God created has been disrupted by sin, and the whole universe is falling apart.
Romans 5:20..."Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
Because of Adam's sin, the ground, the entire universe, is under the curse of death.
Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of they wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for they sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of they life;:
Romans 8:20-21 shows the whole creation, "the creature" is in bondage of corruption and not "fine tuned" and will one day be cleansed, purged, delivered from that evil which has disrupted the harmony.
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
In this passage, God's purpose and plan for His creation is shown to only be interrupted by sin.
Sinners are intelligent life forms, there is no question of that.
Okay you kindof agreed then disagreed. But whatever. That still doesn't follow logically from anything.
Being intelligent does not ensure that a person knows what they are doing.
When you are talking about what Christianity teaches, if you are not in agreement with what the Bible says, you are talking about a fake Christianity which is what most people in the world today call Christian.
I hope this helps you when you are explaining Christian concepts.
Okay and I can agree with you that you have biblical basis for your beliefs. But the problem is that you say therefore logically it's true. Well just because you can point to a passage that says something doesn't mean it's true. I don't really care if god fine tuned the universe or not because that argument doesn't give me any proof god exists in the first place. Its like arguing over what color a unicorn is. Until you prove a unicorn exists it's a pointless argument. So until you prove god exists arguing over what he said or decreed is pointless.
You yourself are proof that God created you. God loves you and is being good to you because He is good and you are resisting, defying Him...and that is not good for you. God wants what is good for you.....what is best for you, and that is good far beyond what you can imagine Heaven would be.
You can know God. You don't have to believe atheists. You can know they are wrong, you can know God personally, and you can know that He knows you personally and is even more real and present than me as I sit here typing. I try to tell you these things because I know, and I know God loves you. I hope you will stop saying you can't know. There is a life of joy being offered to you from God's own hand even without my words, a strength to take you through any trials or sorrows in life. Nobody needs weed for anything.
And you yourself are proof that Krishna created you. See? That isn't proof it's a claim. Anyone can make claims.
What if Satan actually wrote the bible and he's tricking you to do stuff in God's name? How do you know god wants what's best for you when it could be Satan in disguise?
I don't have to be atheist. You don't have to be christian either.
Cmon just look within your heart and you'll know god doesn't exist. Just abandon your faith and smoke weed. Weed actually teleports you to paradise where you can live forever.
The faith of God is logical. You have to think logically about righteousness, mercy, and justice. You have to be honest. If you will not do these things, you will not be able to approach God and you can invent a false God like the god or gods of Hinduism and Krishna or Allah or whatever. There is only one God and He created you to know Him, to enjoy giving you life and all things good in life eternal life, beyond what you can imagine here. All you have to do is be honest, admit you have sinned against God and need His mercy, believe He took your place in death and is risen from the dead, and call on God in the name of His Son to save you and Jesus will come into you and give you a new heart, a new life, a new Spirit which is Christ who will be in you a well or living water springing up to eternal life. There is no other way to know God but in reality as He is, the Creator who died for us to be our Saviour.
You can logically discern the truth or lies in the claims of any religion. Jesus Christ is person, He is not a religion, He is the Living God and you can know Him personally in reality now. You can know you have eternal life. Somehow the light switch in your brain has to click so you can see Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him. These are the claims of Jesus Christ and He gained His fame by proving His authority over all of nature 2000 years ago, He proved His authority by death's inability to keep Him down in the ground. He is risen from the dead and will return as the KING OF KINGS to rule the world, He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth and there will be no more war, no more sickness or dying, no more lies, no more sorrow, no more disappointment, no more fighting. All who oppose Him will remain as they are condemned by their own sins against their Creator.
Jesus is the truth. When you know the truth, you can see through the lies of religions and anti-religions such as the religion of atheism and it is a religion; the atheist simply replaces God with his own mind, making his own thinking to be his own god, then denying he has any god belief so he is the only god he knows and thinks he rules over himself as the god.
There are no grey areas of between right and wrong. Jesus is the Light of the world. When you have the light, He dispels the darkness of sin's degradation in our souls.
Weed can make you feel like you are in paradise, the same as Hindu chanting and meditations can do. Those are illusory feelings leading to death. Weed and Krishna can both be described as devils presenting themselves as angels of light. Satan presents himself as an angel of light, giving false promise and false hopes based on false premises. The lie he is feeding you is to make you think you cannot know Jesus is God the Creator who became a man to die in place of mankind to be the Saviour of all who believe on Him.
Faith by definition is illogical. Faith is belief in something for which there is no good evidence. That isnt a logical thing.
You have to think logically about righteousness, mercy, and justice.
Okay. Logically a guilty person should have a punishment administered that is equal to the magnitude of their crime in a just system. If a person commits a finite crime then the punishment must logically be finite as well. God assigns people the infinite punishment of hell. Humans are finite beings so nothing they could ever do is infinite. Therefore logically nothing a human could do deserves infinite punishment. Therefore God is not just or does not have a logical view of justice.
That is my logic.
You have to be honest. If you will not do these things, you will not be able to approach God and you can invent a false God like the god or gods of Hinduism and Krishna or Allah or whatever.
If what it takes for proof of god is to believe blindly in god then ill never get proof. Because i cant just flip a switch in my brain and make myself believe. i need to be convinced.
There is only one God and He created you to know Him, to enjoy giving you life and all things good in life eternal life, beyond what you can imagine here.
Prove it.
Also god created babies with cancer to enjoy life? Thats pretty messed up
All you have to do is be honest, admit you have sinned against God and need His mercy, believe He took your place in death and is risen from the dead, and call on God in the name of His Son to save you and Jesus will come into you and give you a new heart, a new life, a new Spirit which is Christ who will be in you a well or living water springing up to eternal life. There is no other way to know God but in reality as He is, the Creator who died for us to be our Saviour.
Then ill never know god. i refuse to blindly believe things for which there is no evidence.
You can logically discern the truth or lies in the claims of any religion.
agreed
Jesus Christ is person, He is not a religion, He is the Living God and you can know Him personally in reality now. You can know you have eternal life. Somehow the light switch in your brain has to click so you can see Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him.
Okay thats your religion. Your religion is based on a person called jesus. Its still religion. youre still believing in a supernatural god with a doctrine of rules. Thats religion by definition.
These are the claims of Jesus Christ and He gained His fame by proving His authority over all of nature 2000 years ago, He proved His authority by death's inability to keep Him down in the ground. He is risen from the dead and will return as the KING OF KINGS to rule the world, He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth and there will be no more war, no more sickness or dying, no more lies, no more sorrow, no more disappointment, no more fighting. All who oppose Him will remain as they are condemned by their own sins against their Creator.
Thats alooooooooot of claims. And a whopping 0 pieces of evidence to prove any of it.
Jesus is the truth. When you know the truth, you can see through the lies of religions and anti-religions such as the religion of atheism and it is a religion;
Translation:
Christianity is my religion. When you know a religion you then think every other religion is clearly lies because you believe that your religion is correct no matter what.
Also no atheism isnt a religion. It is by definition the exact opposite of religion.
the atheist simply replaces God with his own mind, making his own thinking to be his own god, then denying he has any god belief so he is the only god he knows and thinks he rules over himself as the god.
Well even if they did that it still wouldnt be a religion. A religion is the belief in a supernatural god or force. Our minds arent supernatural so even if atheists did worship their minds it wouldnt be worshipping a god so it wouldnt be religion. Atheists dont need something to worship or believe in. We just dont believe in ANY gods. zero. none.
There are no grey areas of between right and wrong. Jesus is the Light of the world. When you have the light, He dispels the darkness of sin's degradation in our souls.
Yes there is. oh yes there is. Take an ethics class for 45 mins and youll see that there are more grey areas than anything else.
Stealing is considered wrong. If you steal you should be punished. But what if someone steals to feed a starving child? Is it still immoral? What if they steal 1 apple from a 200 acre apple orchard to feed a starving child. Is that really stealing? Thats a moral grey area. When immoral things can become the moral thing. its all about context. which is why gods moral code doesnt work well at all. his "objective" standard is much too black and white and not nearly complex enough to apply to most modern day moral dilemmas.
Weed can make you feel like you are in paradise, the same as Hindu chanting and meditations can do.
Brb gotta take a bong rip then ill reply to the rest.
bubble bubble bubble
Those are illusory feelings leading to death. Weed and Krishna can both be described as devils presenting themselves as angels of light.
Theyre actually the release of dopamine in the brain leading to euphoria and elevated sensory input. not deadly at all.
Satan presents himself as an angel of light, giving false promise and false hopes based on false premises.
So couldnt god be satan in disguise? What if god didnt write the bible and it was actually Satan who is tricking you into following a false doctrine? Youll say its not true but you have absolutely no way of knowing if its true or false.
The lie he is feeding you is to make you think you cannot know Jesus is God the Creator who became a man to die in place of mankind to be the Saviour of all who believe on Him.
When you are sitting their typing, believing the words will be posted where I will be able to see them, you are acting in faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, it moves you to things you hope to see. Yes it is illogical if you believe you are nothing but a bunch of chemicals fizzing in response to their environment.
If I owe you money and give you a check, you assume that the check is written in good faith and you can count on it. Your faith motivates you to get the check cashed. If you don't think there is good faith regarding my assertion of the check's validity, you probably will not accept the check as payment.
When you go to sit down in a chair, do you examine the structure of the chair to make sure it will hold you, or do you assume it is solid enough based on the evidence of others sitting in the chair before you and the evidence that chair appears to be standing correctly and not broken? Usually we just sit down, believing the chair is good and solid. Once in a while we find a chair in which or faith was misplaced and the thing breaks apart and we pick ourselves up off of the floor.
Faith is real. Everybody acts according to their faith. Some people have faith in believing God does not care about how dirty they talk, so they talk extremely foul mouthed and dirty because it makes them feel powerful. Some people believe God cares about what we say and how we say it, so they put some effort into controlling their tongue and not cursing. Your faith guides your actions, and maybe your faith is illogical...mine is not.
Real faith is based on evidence. I believe Jesus Christ is God and is risen from he dead because I can see the evidence of the historical accounts which show the gospel of God is true, the God was manifest in the flesh, crucified in place of the sinners of the world, and is risen from the dead to be the Justifier of all who believe on Him, the agent of God's forgiveness and peace. This is the ONLY thing which makes sense out of the confusion of life. The love of God is real and you can know it.
Your argument about "finite" crimes is in poor faith, not based on evidence.
When a crime is committed, the wrong has been done and it is forever done. The damage cannot be undone. God is infinite, and you are created forever. Your existence is not finite. When you commit a crime, it is part of your personal history forever and without God's pardon to be freed from it's penalty, you must bear that penalty and the penalty is infinite the same as the history of the wrong remains done and unchangeable.
If you yourself were God, then you dying would be enough to pay for your sins. That is the atheistic hope, that you can be all of the god you need and your death makes you finite so your sins are paid by your dying...the problem is that you are believing your dying ends when in reality it is only beginning. If you will believe Jesus is God who took your death, you can believe the penalty of your sins was finalized on Him, by Him, for His own name's sake because He is good, He had no sins of His own to pay for, He paid for your sins and you can be forgiven by Him in His resurrection if you will call on God from your heart to be saved from dying forever.
the "finite crimes deserve finite punishment" might get you out of jail after getting caught shoplifting, but in reality you did damage and caused people to lose their time to deal with your wrongs and in God's judgement it remains on your record forever. The argument is illogical when you are talking about God righteousness. Your reasoning trying to deny God's right to rule against you and leave you in Hell is illogical and won't exempt you from punishment at any time or in any place or in any manner God sees fit to execute against you. He wants to show you mercy but He can't if you won't concede to His right to punish you however He sees fit. You do not have the right to limit your punishment or you would not even allow yourself to be killed by the dying that is in your body.
You can't just flip a switch in our brain and believe. That switch will get flipped by God if the light of His gospel can shine through to you so you can see the truth. You are blocking it out willfully. You are not seeking God so you will not find Him, and the only proof you will find that He rules over you will be the fire of Hell.
I hope I'm wrong in saying that, but it looks like you are incorrigible and will go on defying God forever.
The lie he is feeding you is to make you think you cannot know Jesus is God the Creator who became a man to die in place of mankind to be the Saviour of all who believe on Him.
The same could be said to you
The same has been reversed and said to me countless times by people like you. Sometimes people get so spitting mad when they are saying it that I think they might attack like wild dogs. I know they are wrong and I know Jesus is alive and He is God the Savior. I know my sins are forgiven and I am going to heaven, I'm not afraid of what people will say or do when I'm telling them the truth.
The universe was perfect when created, not "fine tuned" as it appears today as life requires a certain high level of organization in nature to be sustainable.
When God made the universe, the moon had no craters, the sun was not burning out, entropy was not causing all systems to break down. There was no death in the world, everything was stable, perfect harmony. There is a difference between how God created things and how they are today, and the "fine tuning" which is argued about is in reality disrupted harmony where the "fine tuning" is progressively falling apart. I don't like the usage of "fine tuning" as an argument showing God is the Creator because the fine tuning is ruined by sin's nature. The complexity of matter and the complexity required for life is the more accurate wording for that kind of reasoning. "Fine tuning" is a faulty line from the start as it is unrealistic today.
Ok, I'm trying to be nice to you and you keep throwing filth at me with the dirtiest of profanities. Sometimes I get a kick of our provoking foul mouth punks so that they want to challenge me to real mortal combat....and it's always mortal combat for me if I have to fight.....and if a punk gets himself killed after trying to attack me, I have no remorse in doing what I had to do....so far I am thankful that none died at my hands when God put war in my bones to keep me here so I could represent Him as He tries to reach people who are opposing themselves in rebellion against Him....
But I'm trying to be nice to you and you keep throwing fighting words in my face. Maybe you should just keep smoking weed and chill out and hope you don't end up in Hell.
You're ttying to be nice? All you do is harass me about smoking weed and insult me. And I respond politely to you and just because I don't capitalize my Gs you throw a fit. Either respond to my ACTUAL ARGUMENTS or don't bother responding with this complaining about "blah blah profanity" shit. You look like a big whiny baby
Yep, trying to be nice. I'm telling you the truth, and you hate it so you hate me for telling you. I'm trying to hit you hard enough between the eyes with the truth so you will realize you need God's mercy. For me to do less would be unkind, uncaring, apathetic.
I understand when a person feels they have no options but to do what they do and be what they are. It's hard to believe God loves you and has better things in mind for you that what you can achieve or imagine for yourself by yourself. You know that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in His resurrection it will cause a dividing line between you and many of the people you know and love....they will resist your testimony of the love of God the same as you resist mine, and many of them will respond to you as unkindly as you have responded to me. You're being a coward afraid to trust God, and putting on a show of being strong by cussing a lot and acting like a mental mighty mouth.
Okay you dont just get a free pass to say whatever you want by claiming its the "truth". If i called you horrible names then said "its just the truth, you need to hear it".
My entire family and extended family is christian. I stand out NOW. If i converted then i would blend in much more with our overwhelmingly christian society. I will tell you very simply why i dont believe in god. Its not because i hate god. its not because i dont WANT to believe in god. its not because its hard to believe in god. its not because im afraid of loving god or that i dont want god to love me. I dont believe in god because i do not think god exists. I have not been presented with any evidence that he exists. thats why. So when you come to me saying "god loves you" that means nothing to me. Youre saying something fake loves me and you wonder why that doesnt resonate with me.
What name did I call you which was not an accurate portrayal of you? Idiot? Fool? Those are the names of a person who believes their is no God...an idiot is one who repeatedly does things to his own injury, and a fool is a person who rejects God's right to rule over them, denying their own death is deserved.
I suppose I could have said it better with definitions this way, but I did say it many times and you just cuss and insult me and cuss God and insult him and prove yourself more and more to be an idiot and a fool. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't apologize for telling you the truth.
Did I call you pot head? Well, was I wrong?
Did I call you a pervert? Well, do you indulge in sexual pleasures other than in the bond which makes a man and woman to be one flesh in marriage?
Did I call you dumb or stupid? Ok, that may have been crossing the line a bit. You are obviously smart and intelligent. I just think it's dumb and stupid to try to defy God and to believe you are being successful in it....those things are dumb and stupid, but you sir, are smart and intelligent. Addicts generally are very intelligent people, and I think that is a large part of what drives the addiction.....they are intelligent enough to see life is futile without knowing God's love and they are intelligent enough to find ways to soothe their uncertainty with drugs, alcohol, or sexual perversions........or maybe movies and entertainments to put the mind in neutral and get hem out of reality......
I'm just trying to get your attention to make you rethink the uncertainty of not really knowing where you are going, and the seriousness of the implications of not knowing the extent of the consequences of your actions.
I believe, based on the things you have said, that your family is Catholic. That is a fake version of Christianity, it is paganism masked as Christian. All of the idols, such as Mother of God, the Pope, the "Saints", Purgatory......all of those things come from ancient paganism. The Jesus of Catholicism is not the Jesus of the Bible, it is a deviation designed to be subservient to the Queen of Heaven used as another way to teach people that they have to buy their way into heaven with money and service......and they can never do enough or pay enough to be sure they have made it to Heaven.
It seems like a lot of atheists are coming out of Catholic famiies, and I believe a large part of this is in that the public schools teach an anti-Christian philosophy which uphold Catholicism as authoritative Christianty and it is sooooo easy to show the crimes, atrocities, and corruptions in the Catholic church ever since it was founded by Constantine.
Look at your hand. Your abilty to life your hand and look at it is evidence of God. If you won't believe it, then you won't believe it but the evidence of God is in everything you can see and touch and taste and hear and smell. Your own power of reasoning and imagination is evidence of God. Playing dumb and claiming you didn't know wil not be accepted by God as an excuse so you should get out of existence unpunished.
Nevermind. You seem to be incapable of listening, so why should I respond to you at all? Your profanities are sickening. I don't mind being called dumb or blind or things like that as they are attempt of people to explain things they do not understand. Your profanities are sickening, yet in spite of them I have tried to get you to see the goodness in logical and reasonable answers to your objections...I was going to say "your questions" about God, but I can't remember you actually asking a question which was not a rhetorical question making statements asserting you will not accept answers for...but I have tried repeatedly from many angles to get you to see that the faith of God is not only good, logical, and reasonable, but that it comes from His love and is His gift if you will receive it.
I've said more than three times what is enough for you to go on your own accord to enter into agreement with God and know His love and mercy. I've told you over and over, in different words, that the Bible has the answer for any question of life if you will only believe it and if you won't believe it you will never know it and you can know it without doubt and believe it because you know it. I tried hard because I see in you a lot of what I saw in myself when I was a pot head seeking to pacify myself with pleasures as I tried to numb my perception that without knowing God's love, life seemed pointless, cruel, and senseless in that everything we love is taken away in death.
I've turned my back and walked away forever from more than one friend who acted like you, and I did it with sadness but accepted it straight faced as matter of fact reality. Some people just won't listen to reason and they will drain you if you keep trying to get them to hear.
Nevermind. You seem to be incapable of listening, so why should I respond to you at all? Your profanities are sickening. I don't mind being called dumb or blind or things like that as they are attempt of people to explain things they do not understand. Your profanities are sickening, yet in spite of them I have tried to get you to see the goodness in logical and reasonable answers to your objections...I was going to say "your questions" about God, but I can't remember you actually asking a question which was not a rhetorical question making statements asserting you will not accept answers for...but I have tried repeatedly from many angles to get you to see that the faith of God is not only good, logical, and reasonable, but that it comes from His love and is His gift if you will receive it.
1) when did i ever actually call you any kind of profanity? You exaggerate so much
2) you didnt try repeatedly you responded like once or twice
I've said more than three times what is enough for you to go on your own accord to enter into agreement with God and know His love and mercy.
You cant tell me what is enough for me to accept your god exists. Only i can decide that. Your standard of proof is pitiful frankly. Its gonna take alot more than a book full of claims and a bunch of fluffy language to convince me that a god exists.
I've told you over and over, in different words, that the Bible has the answer for any question of life if you will only believe it and if you won't believe it you will never know it and you can know it without doubt and believe it because you know it.
What can the bible tell me about the moral implications of disclosing a persons anonymity online?
I tried hard because I see in you a lot of what I saw in myself when I was a pot head seeking to pacify myself with pleasures as I tried to numb my perception that without knowing God's love, life seemed pointless, cruel, and senseless in that everything we love is taken away in death.
Oh yes you know so much about me from the several paragraphs of exchanges weve had.
I've turned my back and walked away forever from more than one friend who acted like you, and I did it with sadness but accepted it straight faced as matter of fact reality. Some people just won't listen to reason and they will drain you if you keep trying to get them to hear.
Even if Aliens were discovered to exist, it would not, contradict the idea of a creator- they(the aliens) would probably have their own ideas about that.
If that life was intelligent and capable of communicating we could simply inquire about their religious beliefs. If they've never heard of "God" or the bible or Jesus or the Quran or allah or Buddha etc. then that would be a pretty good indication in my book.
You sure are full of "ifs", aren't you? The only "if" you are lacking is "if" you can have eternal life through Jesus Christ. I guess you can't because you keep saying it's not possible.
The question of the OP is profound only in that it is based on the idea that creature rule the universe and the Creator does not. The question is born of ignorance, and you can ask the question throughout eternity in Hell as you curse God for the pain of the fire if you want to.
That's some pretty far out tangents you are taking there.
People can be wrong about things and still be forgiven of their sins, having their sins covered by the blood God gave for them as Jesus Christ crucified, and have peace with God, forgiveness by the Savior who is risen from the dead offering forgiveness to all who believe on Him, the Creator, who died for their sins.
The whole "aliens" and "extra-terrestrial UFOs" thing is a deception. They are trying to make people believe that we are the masters of the universe and God cannot rule over or against us. It's evil. Whatever they say they are, whatever people believe about them contradictory to the Word of God is lies from Hell.
Satan is the father of lies. I have theories about the so-called "aliens", but it's not important. They are simply a deception based on lies from Hell going against God who is the ruler of all Creation. The message we get from "aliens" is against God's right to rule over His creatures, against His right to confine sinners in Hell forever.
You can have wrong beliefs about "aliens" and still be saved from Hell through faith in the blood of God Himself, the resurrected Savior in whom we are forgiven if we believe on Him and call on God in Jesus' name to have mercy on us and save us from Hell.
If you know your sins are forgiven by God the Creator who died for you to be your Savior, and He is risen from the dead and is LORD....you have begun to be in agreement with God in accordance with His word, and God Himself will lead you into the truth about things that are confusing or uncertain to most people.
I think I said enough about them. It's a demonic deception designed encourage people to believe, like you probably believe, that they have the right as sinners to exist outside of Hell's fire.
They are not. Everything about them is anti-Christ. If they are real physical beings or not, or if they are completely projections of people's imaginations.....it's all promoting demonic doctrines which are against God's goodness and His right to execute justice against sinners.
Whatever you believe about them, you can sum it all up as they are anti-Christ spirits and demonic in nature. In my fairly long life, I have never heard anybody say anything about them giving any hint that any "alien" is Christian. "What if" doesn't count. Everything about them indicates it is an anti-Christ deception.
But you must admit that we know exceptionally little about life outside of our solar system. So I am talking about a hypothetical: What if we found out more about them, and found out that they (or some, at least) were Christian?
I answered that already. You can spend your entire life making "what if's" and never come to the knowledge of the truth.
The only place you are going to find aliens who might be Christians would be in a place like Texas where some of the illegal immigrants actually may be Christians who know God through the Risen Saviour.
Just because you prefer lies over the answer does not mean the answer is a non-answer. Just go on and make up your own answers to suit yourself, who cares if what you believe is the truth or not? Enjoy.
Only until you find yourself in Hell, so enjoy it while you can if that's the way you want to go. You won't get your dirty hands on my family, that's for sure.
So may I ask what Bible verses you might use to prove your point?
From my readings and studies, I have found nothing about aliens whatsoever, thus aliens could actually exist. Through some other verses we may see things that make aliens seem highly unlikely and pretty much impossible, the Bible doesn't actually say anything about aliens themselves.
I can definitely see how you might say that aliens don't exist, but to me it seems like you're taking a pretty far leap to assume that they are also demonic or 100% lies from the Devil.
In a hypothetical scenario, just to assume for the sake of discussion, you managed to somehow find alien life on another planet, how would that affect your faith/belief in God?
For me, I'd have little trouble accepting it because all in all it's GOD'S universe, and He can put in it what He wants. If he decides he wants another inhabited planet, that's totally up to Him and will only bring further glory to Him.
Once again, may I ask for any/every Bible verse you can find to support your theory? I just don't see how such an immediate, antagonistic response towards other life is quite warranted by anything written in the Bible. Please tell me where it says aliens are lies.
(Note: verses that say things like "do not let the Devil deceive you" are not necessarily talking about aliens and thus are not good verses to use.)
God created all things. I think that is pretty easy to find in the Bible. That includes any being which people refer to as an "alien", and any being which claims to be an "alien". People, physical living things, and angels or demons which do not have material bodies. That's all there is. Every thing that lives, lives in God's creation.
Many Christians theorize that demons cross bred with people so they made a race of hybrids....nephalim or whatever. I do not believe this to be an accurate theory. I can see how people might believe it, but it's no good for anybody to believe such things. All we need to know is that anything which claims to be an "alien" or presents itself as such is demonic in origin and not to be trusted.
IF there are intelligent beings on other planets, they are either sinners like us or they are angels. If they are sinners like us, there is no reason to believe they are anything other than demons, and they are liars.
You NEVER hear anybody say the "aliens" are Christians, but to the contrary many people say the "aliens" tell them that Jesus was nothing better than the "aliens" and is not God, and they say there is no God and no such thing as time...this is the kind of stuff people come out with when they say the "aliens" are talking to them or meeting with them. It's doctrines of demons from Hell, they are deceiving spirits promoting this stuff.
Let me ask you a personal question....if you die today, are you sure your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven?
I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty that I am going to Heaven when I die. I have accepted Jesus as my savior and it is my life's goal to please and serve Him, and I know that He has forgiven my sins.
(Also, the Nephilim are clearly discussed in the Bible, in Genesis 6:1-4.)
However, I'd like to discuss aliens with you, if you don't mind. :) You still have not given me any Bible verses to back up your theory. In saying this, I'm not at all trying to slam, ignore, or invalidate your opinions. You are most certainly entitled to your own interpretation of the Bible. I am just trying to see where you are coming from. :) Could you please provide some verses to back up your claims?
Ok, well praise the Lord and good for you! You are the first person on this site I have found who could give a clear solid testimony of knowing God.
The only theory regarding "aliens" which can be supported Biblically is that they are demonic in origin. Theories about nephalim being half breeds between angels (demons) and people require a lot of assumptions which can only be supported Biblically by assuming the assumptions are correct. Whatever they appear to be, whatever they say they are, whatever people believe, the only thing that can be Biblically supported is that they are devilish and their teachings which people are falling for are doctrines of devils from Hell.
God promised He would send strong delusion in the end times, and I believe His permitting of "aliens" to perpetrate speculative theories is the strongest delusion for the end times next to the Anti-Christ rising to power and setting himself up as God on Earth.
The only safe and sound position is to say they are demonic in origin, and their intent is to deceive people. Whatever it is people are seeing, hearing, and experiencing, the "aliens" are liars. If you look into their "messages for mankind", you will find throughout all of them a denial of the deity of Christ, denial of Hell, denial of the reality of death being the consequence of sin......
As children of God the only standard of truth is to be the Bible. The "Gap Theory" which allows for the Nephalim or whatever is not in line with the Bible. I have studied both sides of the argument, and seen a lot of things most people would not believe and I will not talk about much. There are many well educated believers who believe in the gap theory and interbreeding of fallen angels and man to produce a half breed race of "aliens". I respect them for their ministries, but I think by being strong in supporting the assumptions of a half breed race which is remnants of a huge amout of time between Gen 1:1 and 2 is much more of an assumption than the Bible supports. If God wanted us to be so concerned about such things, He would have made it clear in His word. The only thing we need to know is that whatever they appear to be, they are demonic in origin and should be considered as nothing but liars deceiving people to follow them in rebellion against God, leading them into Hell.
I don't think you need me to point out verses. I can see how people will go along with the "nephalim" theories, but I think it's a mistake, a sidetrack. If you know somebody who has had "encounters", all you have to say to them is that the beings they encountered are liars and as sinners they do not have the right to live outside of Hell. If God wanted us to have volumes of material supporting theories of "aliens", He would have put a lot more than three verses in the Bible about it. Christians who get into that stuff are dabbling in the occult, allowing for promotion of contrary doctrines of demons from Hell against the Lord.
Okay, up to this point I did not understand how you could be making the claims you were making. To me it didn't seem founded in scripture AT ALL. After reading this, however, I think I finally understand. :)
I will go ahead and apologize now for not understanding sooner.
Just to be sure I get what you're saying, I'm just going to repeat what you said back to you in words that I understand better and you can feel free to correct me where I'm wrong. This is not me trying to mock or correct you in any way, I'm simply making sure I get what you're saying. :)
It sounds to me like you are saying that because the only extraterrestrials mentioned in the Bible are angels, demons, the Nephilim, and God, that aliens would have to fall under one of those categories. So you think the aliens are most likely demons and that the Nephilim...don't exist? (I'm not really sure where you stand on Nephilim. To me it sounds like you say one thing and then another, but that's probably just me being unable to understand.) So, therefore, since the 'aliens' are more likely than not demons, they are evil liars. Also, if people were to discover 'aliens' (who were actually demons) the 'aliens' would immediately try to say that God is a liar and would thus lead people astray. Thus, a belief in alien life is a disastrous view because it would mean that you'd be much more likely to accept demons.
Is this essentially what you are saying?
Again, I apologize for not understanding sooner. Now that you've explained it again, I think I get what you're saying. :)
However, I still think the question that has been asked is a bit different from how you're answering. :P
Like, what if the aliens were cows? Haha bad example, but like what if they were non-intelligent life? They're still by definition aliens, but they're also not inherently evil.
I think it's more of a "what if" question than a "do aliens exist and what are they" question. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but that's just how I interpreted the question. :)
The Bible does not describe any creature as "extraterrestrial". The Bible does not describe any creature as "alien" to Earth. The teaching of Nephalim you are going along with is huge assumptions. There is little in the Bible about them, there is nothing in the entire New Testament about them, and it should not be the focus of our curiosity or conversation. Jesus always is central and to be the focus....He made all things for His own pleasure and purpose, and in all things He should have the preeminence (that's a scripture quote, not sure where off the top of my head).
What I'm saying is that people make way too much of the topic. It's a distraction from the gospel which is to be the purpose of our lives, denying ourselves to follow Jesus and giving our lives for His gospel, not for speculating about things that are barely alluded to in only five or six verses. "Alien life" is not a Biblical concept and the terminology is not Christian. The whole topic should be viewed with nothing but skepticism by Christians, and orchestrated deception to lead people astray and Christians who play into it have lost the focus of the cross we are supposed to be carrying while Christ is our life and His gospel is our purpose as it is His purpose, to reach out to lost sinners.
We don't need to explore all the theories of aliens and Nephalim, all we need to know is that our lives are owned by God, bought and paid for by the blood of Christ, that we might grow in grace and in knowledge of the Lord, not grow in curiosity and wonder of aliens.
If you listen to the claims of people who claim to have been given messages from the so-called "aliens", they are always anti-Christ, anti-Bible messages. They apparently know about Jesus Christ and they insist He is not God. I studied this stuff far more than it is worth. If you just stand on the word of God, you know the whole thing about aliens and Nephalim is an orchestrated deception designed to distract from and keep people away from the gospel by which they can be saved from Hell.
Remember Jesus called His own disciples, the twelve chosen ones, evil : "If ye, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children.........". Doing things that are good to do does not make an evil creature stop being evil.
" Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" God wants not only our words and actions to be honoring to Him and in accordance with His word, He even wants us to control our thoughts so that anything in is that is not obedient to the Lord we cast down, we renounce, we reject. This whole thing about "aliens" is the wrong focus.
Eve did not need to indulge her curiosity to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and we do not need to indulge our curiosity with things which are leading people into believing a delusion......believing they have the right to exist outside of Hell as sinners.
Our focus is to be on the Lord, His gospel, His calling on our lives to be like Him, reaching out to others with the truth of our need of salvation and God's provision to meet that need through the blood of His son. Focusing on "alien" and "Nephalim" theories is not what God wants us to do.
I learned my lessons the hard way. It would have been much better to just believe the Bible and forever distrust any allusions to "aliens" and "nephalim".
It opens doors to demons who will try to destroy your faith is they can't destroy you. All they want to do is keep you from focusing on and spreading the gospel so that lost people might hear and be saved. If getting you to spend a lot of time studying "aliens" and philosophizing (vain philosophy, the Bible calls it) about them keeps you from focusing on the gospel and reaching out to others to share the good news, demons will be sure to give you lots of tasty morsels to make the "aliens" interesting.
Christians go by the word of God, not by "what ifs". If you are being encouraged to entertain "what ifs", that is not coming from God.
Christians are not supposed to operate in "what ifs', but rather to be
I definitely agree with you on the majority of what you are saying. I definitely agree that we shouldn't doubt God and shouldn't meddle in things clearly against His word. I also agree that the majority of the time when people talk about aliens they're discussing another form of a 'supreme being' who could have created life and thus take the place of God. I also agree that the focus of scripture is on Christ, His death and resurrection and when studying scripture, that should be our main focus as well.
However, I have to disagree with you on one point: that we shouldn't even think about it. I believe that God created our minds with the ability to ponder our existence and think about things. I believe the Devil lies to us by saying "you're not allowed to question things" or "God doesn't want you to think". I personally feel that God calls us to ask Him about what He's made, to explore it, and to wonder and marvel at everything.
However, I also firmly believe that there is a line that we shouldn't cross when it comes to these things. For example, it's one thing to wonder about other religions and why they exist etc., but a completely different thing to meddle around in them and "be a Buddhist for a month" or something.
I am the kind of person who will think about things, muse through the logic of different sides of an argument, and pick the side that makes the most logical sense. I do this with all sorts of crazy, whacked-out ideas (I once wrote an eleven-page essay on whether or not humans could fly) all the time.
This is how God has made me. It would drive me near insanity if I felt I couldn't wonder about things anymore because God doesn't want me to think. I personally don't see how such a loving God would create people with minds that were designed to think and wonder and then tell us to stop it.
I can totally understand any concern that you may have about thinking about dangerous things and then being misled by them, but to say "don't ever think about it" is probably taking it too far. :)
So yes, there is definitely a line that we shouldn't cross (and I think accepting aliens is crossing the line) but the line doesn't start at wondering. If our 'wondering' goes too far, THEN it is wrong. But musing about God's creation and what could be doesn't seem wrong to me.
Also: For clarification's sake I don't agree with the Nephilim-are-aliens theory. Do I think they existed? Yes, definitely. It's pretty clear in the Bible that they existed. But I don't really go much farther on that belief than "the Bible says they existed". To be honest, I've barely given them much of a thought until now. :P
We do not have to ponder our existence, we can know why we are here, how we got here, where we are going, why we are going there, the meaning of life, the value of ourselves and each individual from the moment of conception.
Questioning is one thing, but the Word of God has all of the answers and as Christians we are supposed to know and not be open minded to possibilities which are not clearly, plainly, and repeatedly stated in the Bible.
Our treasure is in heaven, to be with the Lord and give Him all the thanks, the honor, and the glory and it's going to be good beyond imagination. Demons have the power to make themselves appear to be things they are not, and they have great power to deceive multitudes of people with all kinds of shows, and they will tailor those shows according to the preferences of the people who are being deceived. Atheism is a demonic deception tailored to a large group of people who prefer that deception. Hinduism is a demonic deception. Satan worship and witchcraft, paganism, Wicca, all are demonic deceptions and the whole "alien" thing is a demonic deception which will become increasingly stronger as the Anti-Christ world dictatorship grows nearer after Christians are taken out of the world when the Lord calls us up to meet Him in the air.
Don't blame God for your inclinations to be curious about things. You can control your curiosities. I'm not saying "don't think about these things", I'm saying think about them scripturally. It is not scriptural to say "God made me this way so I go on long excursions of musing about possibilities". It is scriptural to say that my every thought is to captive in obedience to Christ, and that I am to cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.
Don't take this as a put down, I'm only trying to help....spending hours musing about whether or not people can fly all the time is spending time in a high place of your imagination, self-indulging. God wants everything we say, do, think, and imagine to be in service to Him, not ourselves.......and our reward is that He will freely give us all things IN HEAVEN to enjoy. The things of this world are temporary and not to be our muse.....God is going to wipe the whole slate clean and we are not supposed to be playing around drawing random pictures on it waiting for Him to reveal His promises in the present.
Also: For clarification's sake I don't agree with the Nephilim-are-aliens theory. Do I think they existed? Yes, definitely. It's pretty clear in the Bible that they existed. But I don't really go much farther on that belief than "the Bible says they existed". To be honest, I've barely given them much of a thought until now. :P
This is good....also, do not assume that people who interpret the Nephalim as being angels or demons are correct, no matter how much they draw from sources outside or inside the Bible. The English is sons of God, implying they were humans who believed God and were saved but they went after women who did not believe God and were not saved. That's enough. People who interpret them as angels or demons and then make carreers out of studying them and not doing what God wants us to do which is to give our lives for the gospel and Jesus' name sake.
I have studied the subject extensively both before I was a Christian and after I got saved near my 22nd birthday. I spent way too much time in it, time that will not bring me any treasure, no reward in Heaven. I would have been much better off if I had a teacher to keep me focused on the gospel. I did a lot of things I never should have done, and saw a lot of things I never needed to see, and there are consequences to pay when we go our own way to do our own thing.
The whole "aliens, UFOs, life on other planets"...it's all just an orchestrated deception of demons, no matter how much "evidence" they present. I do believe that their "phenomena" will play a big role after the Anti-Christ takes the stage as the leader of the world ushering in the New World Order as his worldwide dictatorship. Maybe they will lay a bit low during the first period of peace, and then break loose like the demons from Hell they are during the Great Tribulation.....but I'm not going to be here then and I really don't need to know if I'm right or not about that. There is more than enough description of everything given in The Book of The Revelation of Jesus Christ. We don't need to know about "aliens" and UFO's other than that it's an orchestrated deception to keep people away from the gospel and keep Christians away from focusing on sharing the good news to lead others to Christ.
"Don't blame God for your inclinations to be curious about things. You can control your curiosities."
My intent was not at all to blame him - or anyone - for anything. I am glad he made me the way he did. I would not be able to serve him as well if I didn't constantly think about things. :)
In my opinion, using my mind to wonder about the world he has put me in IS giving glory to God.
"Don't take this as a put down, I'm only trying to help..."
Thank you very much, I appreciate that as a fellow believer you'd care enough to correct me where you think I'm wrong. However, I've read up on this and talked with God and my pastor and I feel a peace in my heart knowing that God doesn't want me to be a mindless robot. I personally feel that he wants me to ask him questions, to wonder and muse about the things of his creation. If I am ignorant of anything, I know the Devil will use it against me. So I ask God questions, I study his word, I do research, and my mind can only grow sharper for it.
Just to clarify, do you believe that indulgence is a sin? (I am not referring to anything that might be breaking God's law. For example, what of indulging creativity, or indulging the questioning mind? Do you believe these to be sin?)
Haha we're not even talking about aliens any more...XD Well, at least, I'm not.
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(This is totally off-topic and I apologize, but are you familiar with Myers-Briggs personality types? I doubt it, but I figured I'd ask anyway. I'm really curious what your type is...XD)
Haha by definition, anything that doesn't live on earth is extraterrestrial. :) Extraterrestrial just means "not of earth". A rock from mars is extraterrestrial. It doesn't necessarily refer to intelligent life. :)
You are making up a new Bible to fit with your alien ideas. You are saying since it's not in the Bible.....which is wrong, the Bible covers everything everywhere in all of creation well enough so we can be confident of the truth....... but you are saying you can make up your own story, your own Bible, for other planets. It's an evil which opens the door for lying spirits to deceive people...and apparently you are being deceived.
C. S. Lewis did a lot of speculative science fiction in which he imagined races on other planets. Lewis was a heretic, and while a lot of his stuff is thought provoking and usable in apologetics, some of his stuff is just plain un-biblical. He did Christianity no favors by encouraging belief in peoples and civilizations on other planets. That stuff only gives rise to speculative arguments which distract from the gospel. Whenever I deal with people who have had real experiences with what they think are "aliens" or "ghosts" or whatever, I always downplay all of the theories and speculations that have to be found in between the lines of the Bible where they are not written down for us to read. Go with what is written and what is not in the Bible is not to be held as Biblical.
Just the stuff people say about those things is all you need to know that the teachings of "aliens" is in the spirit of anti-Christ.
Christians are supposed to give their lives for the gospel and the Lord's name, not spend their time supporting ideas, and that's all we have is ideas, of life on other planets. Christians who go along with the Nephalim, the Gap theory, and such things generally think it is important to go along with evolutionists in the billions of years, and with the many people who are convinced "aliens" come from different galaxies. It's just not Biblical. If we were supposed to argue along those lines, there would be more than five verses about it in the Bible.
What we do have a lot of in the Bible is description of the anti-Christ, the beast, and the false prophet, and strong delusion in the end times in which even the people of God come near to being deceived. All the theories of "aliens" fit in the end times descriptions much better than what is supposed to be implied in a few verses in Genesis.........and the focus is on the Lord bringing doom to Satan, the beast, the false prophet. The focus is not on the life and times of Nephalims
If we found aliens then "God's word" would change as it always has so that their religion isn't too blatantly wrong. It happens every time there is a contradiction that is clear enough for those high on the religious hierarchy to see that someone is going to call them out.
It's a deception, they are not "aliens". It's a deception to make you believe that the creatures rule creation rather than the Creator, and if you keep believing that you have the right to exist outside of Hell when God has not given you that right, you are going to wake up with the fire of Hell proving you wrong.
Then what are they? Its a mathematical impossibility that there isn't other life somewhere in the universe. It doesn't really matter what you call it if/when it shows up.
It's a deception to make you believe that the creatures rule creation rather than the Creator
Even in Christian scripture it says that God explicitly made the universe to be self-proficient. In other words, "creatures" do rule "creation" in that a god is not needed for it to run smoothly.
It's a mathematical impossibility that life exists at all. Even ungodly atheistic scientists will admit this when they show the numbers honestly, but then they will turn around and cling to the 1 in 1 hundred kasillion babillion million odds...odds so high that only God can take credit for making it happen.........so the ungodly scientist will back track on their conclusions and say "we cannot believe God created matter". That's all they have.
The Bible is the only Christian scripture. If you are using the Apocrypha or any other books that claim to be "scripture", they are not from God. Nowhere in the Bible does it say the universe is self-proficient, and nowhere in the Bible does it say God is not the ruler of Creation but creatures are.
I'll be happy to help you know what the Bible says with chapter and verse references if you want to know, but until you are able to support your statements about the word of God by quoting chapter and verse, you are speaking fraudulently saying this or that is from "scripture" when it is not in God's word.
When you say "Christianity or the scriptures teach this or that" you should be able to quote that scripture. If you are not quoting from the Bible when you say it's scripture, you are not adhering to Christian teaching....and the Apocrypha is not the Bible, even if it is in the middle of the Catholic Bible.
Actually it was more implied in the scripture, based on that the Bible says that God created all, and that from what we have hitherto observed, the universe is self-proficient. Although you are right in that the people that wrote the Bible couldn't have known that, so I concede the point.
Even ungodly atheistic scientists will admit this when they show the numbers honestly, but then they will turn around and cling to the 1 in 1 hundred kasillion babillion million odds...odds so high that only God can take credit for making it happen
Firstly: We do not know how life started (yet), we have been able to make life in labs from where there was no life, but it was made in an environment that it then died in almost instantly. Our best guess is that the conditions were somehow different when life started on Earth, but again we don't know.
Secondly: The fact that there is a chance at all is a contradiction to Christian beliefs. This is because regardless of the chances, it only had to happen once. Meaning that over time, (a very, very, very long time) something happened and the first life appeared. Now you see what we have today.
Thirdly: The fact that we do not know something in no way whatsoever is proof of God. Going by that logic it is also proof for every other god ever thought up in history. It is proof of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and Russel's Teapot. All it means is that we don't know, but we are and will continue to try to find out.
You are implying the Bible says things it does not say. The implication is all yours, it's not the Bible. Science observes that the universe is not "self-proficient" but rather is breaking down, falling apart, slowly but surely. You are inserting your own beliefs and implications into science as well as into the Bible. You are not God who has the authority to validate everything you say.
You're not listening, you are only parroting the garbage you have been persuaded to believe when no real science validates anything you believe. If you believe the Bible, and study nature scientifically in all disciplines.....science makes much more sense in supporting the word of God then in supporting your belief that life emerged out of non-life somewhere over the rainbow quinzimmablillions of traquirlllions of years ago.
No wonder you aere "Wasting Away". You believe life has no objective value, so you might as well waste away.
You are implying the Bible says things it does not say
Actually I explicitly said "I concede the point." So no, I'm not.
You are inserting your own beliefs and implications into science as well
Then point to where I am doing this, and a source that shows a contradiction or my own bias. If you can't do that then your argument is nothing more than pointless rhetoric.
If you believe the Bible, and study nature scientifically in all disciplines.....science makes much more sense in supporting the word of God
Really? Point to your (unbiased) sources that empirically show that the Christian God is supported by science. Then show proof as to why the contradictions that we already know are false, and why you are right.
The fact that YOU do not know something only proves that you do not know it. I know why we are here, and I know where we are going, and I know why we are going there. I know the meaning of life, I know the Creator of life, I know the Savior who conquered death and I know that you CAN know Him but apparently you want to go your own way which you love more than life and you think your own way is worth your life and you are losing it all.
One thing I'm not sure I know....not sure I know why I bother trying to talk sense into you.
The fact that YOU do not know something only proves that you do not know it
Exactly, it proves literally nothing more (unlike what you are arguing)
I know why we are here, and I know where we are going, and I know why we are going there.
On the contrary, you BELIEVE you know. You have no evidence to support it. The Bible has no evidence to support many of the claims it makes that you are defending. Without evidence you cannot assume something is right, in essence, until you can prove the Bible it is wrong. Period.
You're only in high school and you already think you know more than God? How did you get fooled into believing that? Whoever taught you to think that way is not your friend, even if it's your own family teaching you to think that way. You're going to wind up in Hell if you won't believe God loves you and gave Himself for you as the Son of God who died in your place so you can be forgiven in His resurrection. I guess you don't care. I hope it's not too late for you, maybe it is too late and you can never believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved from Hell.
You're only in high school and you already think you know more than God?
Well seeing as God is a fictional character from a fairy tail, yes.
Whoever taught you to think that way is not your friend
No one did, in fact I was indoctrinated to be a Christian. Then I started thinking about things and used my brain and critical thinking skills, I am legitimately sorry that you can't do the same thing.
I guess you don't care.
Hey you got something right! I do not care what a lie has to say about where I am going.
This stuff you are spouting off like a parrot does not make sense. It's fake, people pretending to know things they do not know, pretending ignorance is knowledge and they know they are right because of their ignorance. It's nonsense, all of this stuff. When you believe stuff like this, in your imagination you are making yourself into a worthless waste of time who has to suffer death pointlessly. This stuff is designed to make mincemeat out of you, and that's what its' doing to you....and it's going to take you into Hell's fire fi you keep clinging to the false hope of atheism.
When you believe stuff like this, in your imagination
You really don't see how hypocritical it is to talk about the dangers of believing in imaginary things?
false hope of atheism.
Well seeing as there is no inherent hope in atheism you can't really say it is false (at all). Atheism is nothing more than the disbelief in a god, it is the most logical conclusion seeing as there is no evidence whatsoever in support of one.
so as an atheist, why can't you say you don't believe God is real, spelling His name correctly? Why do you always have to change Him into "a god"? A god is not God. A god is an idol. When you say "I have no god belief", you are by default admitting that you believe God is there because He is the only One you want to deny exists and you know it. Atheism is nothing but a bold faced lie, hatred of God, murdering Him in your imagination and all you are doing is committing suicide in it.
so as an atheist, why can't you say you don't believe God is real, spelling His name correctly?
This argument doesn't even make sense. I can spell Voldemort's name correctly and he doesn't exist, so what's the distinction?
Why do you always have to change Him into "a god"?
Because he is "a god," by definition the Christian God (only in capitals because that is a name, unless you'd rather me say "Yahweh") is a god (not in capitals, as it describes a group of things).
A god is not God. A god is an idol.
Seeing how much you seem to idolize God this isn't much of an argument.
When you say "I have no god belief", you are by default admitting that you believe God is there because He is the only One you want to deny exists and you know it.
No, not at all. I have a disbelief in any and all gods. It isn't specific to the Christian God because Christianity is in no way special or unique. Christianity is just as much bullshit as every other religion out there, it isn't specific to Christianity it's just a fact.
Atheism is nothing but a bold faced lie
Well seeing as atheism (not in capitals as it atheism is not an ideology - just a disbelief) has no positive claims inherent in it whatsoever, grammatically speaking it literally cannot be a lie.
And from here you have your usual religious spiel, not much for me to refute as there isn't an argument there.
The distinction is that you are playing dumb, pretending to not know who you are talking about when you say God is not God. When you say He does not exist, you know exactly who you are referring to. You are just putting on a show of willfull ignorance and acting like it is impossible for you to be proven wrong. Of course it is impossible for you to believe the Living God loves you, when you will not believe He is there....but that is your choice.
Atheists (at first I was going to say "Fools", but atheists hate the truth) like you say "you have to show me proof of Hell before I believe it is real." Your basic arugument implies there is not enough goodness in the world to prove that God is there, and if God is not good, then He cannot be God and must not exist.
Every good thing you can name, every comfort, every pleasure, every beauty, is from God the creator and giver of goodness who gave us the ability to do good things. When you say there is no proof of God, or no evidence of God, you are choosing to believe in a reality void of God's goodness; that's what you want your life to be. You give no thanks to God who gives good things to you, and you want to believe He is not good. God is letting you be you because He loves you. If you want to have a reality void of God's goodness by saying He is not there, He will give you that reality, reluctantly, in the fire of Hell and it's justice because you have gone against Him, broken His law, and denied His goodness. All of the arguments you make against Him are simplistic foolishness if not eloquent though useless mumbo jumbo. You can't win arguing against God. You can fool yourself as you are dying, you are free to do that. God gives you the freedom to hate Him because He loves you.
I don't have to show you, you can just wait and see for yourself, can't you?
saying "atheism has no positive claims inherent in it whatsoever is a positive claim. You are saying atheism is positively unable to make positive claims. It's dumb stuff, and you act like the arguments are rock solid. Atheism is nothing but double talk lies, fooling yourself and it's for your own destruction in Hell. God wants you in heaven but you are going away from Him by your own choice if you claim ignorance or unbelief or disbelieve or no positive assertions or whatever.
You are choosing to live void of God's goodness, and the only place you can do that is in the fire of Hell. All you are doing is committing suicide hoping to escape God's justice in death. You don't get out that easy. You have to pay for your time. The wrongs you have done are done forever, cannot be reversed, and you have to pay forever if you will not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who is God in the flesh who paid your price so you can be forgiven. If you insist you do not need His forgiveness, He will give you want you want and let you go unforgiven into the Lake of Fire with all sinners who wont' stop going against God.
Every good thing is a gift from God, every good thing is evidence that God is there and He is good. You want to have a reality where you can honestly say there is no evidence of God, and that place is Hell where there is nothing good, nothing but fire, no evidence that God is good even though He remains good while people who died in opposition of Him will never be able to see it. You are asking to be in Hell, and then like an idiot saying "I don't believe in Hell". It doesn't matter if you believe God is good, and it doesn't matter if you believe Hell is not real, you will still end up stuck in the fire if you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Every good thing is a gift from God, every good thing is evidence that God is there and He is good.
Really, so is that to say that God did not in fact create everything? Just the good things?
You want to have a reality where you can honestly say there is no evidence of God
Actually I would much rather a reality with a god (assuming it was a god that didn't just kill everything he/she disagreed with, like the Christian God). It sucks that there isn't a god, (or at least no evidence for one) and I would much rather there was.
You are asking to be in Hell, and then like an idiot saying "I don't believe in Hell"
It really doesn't make sense for me to be afraid of something that doesn't have any proof. Please show me your empirical evidence in support to the existence of Hell.
It doesn't matter if you believe God is good, and it doesn't matter if you believe Hell is not real,
Well seeing as the only thing you can think of in support of God is your belief, I would say that (at least using your own logic) belief does matter. A lot.
Non-Christians who use the Bible to support things that the Bible does not teach first of all are not qualified to use the Bible because they are not Christians, and second, are committing fraud by changing meanings and taking passages out of context to support erroneous ideas.
If you do not believe Jesus is God as He says in the Bible, and that He is risen from the dead as recorded in the Bible, then you are not qualified to say what the Bible teaches. People who do not believe the Bible take bits and pieces and twist them around to support every false religion in the world. Why when they don't believe the Bible they try to say it supports their beliefs, I don't understand. They say the Bible is full of lies, but then use it as if it backs up their personal preference of belief. Their main source of support is a book they say is full of lies...it's goofy.
The Bible is the word of God and it clearly and repeatedly states that God rules over every thing and every being He created, and one day will forever separate all evil, all sinners, all rebels, in Hell's prison of fire. If you are not born of the Spirit of God who in you will be a new person, making a new you who will be sinless like Jesus in Heaven, then you are going to be in Hell where sin belongs.....the only place suited for it in Creation.
You know honestly I wouldn't be too shocked to learn that extraterrestrial life had their own religions. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a phenomenon amongst intelligent life. For all we know it could be perfectly natural for intelligent life to develop religions and not because their is a creator but because of other reasons.
I mean the concept of god isn't really all that complex, all we are talking about here is a cosmic agent. The combination of two concepts: the cosmos, and beings. We look at everything around us, the sky, our world, wondering how far it goes and we sum up all of our reality that we can possibly figure there to be and call it the cosmos.
This is a very interesting question, thank you for posting it. It's always great to watch people's gears turn in thought over clever ideas.
I can understand why the topic of 'aliens' is so frequently brought up, after all, with so many stars and planets and galaxies, what are the odds that we are the only lifeforms out there? And with so many God-fearing Christians disagreeing with the alien theory, what if they're all WRONG? What does that say about the integrity of their God?
Well, let's turn to the big book itself, the Bible. It never says, "Earth is the only life-bearing planet I have created" and it never says, "There is no life on other planets". Of course, it ALSO never says "Oh and there's this cool thing called gravity" either. You see, the Bible is not a science textbook. However, whenever it mentions science it is always one-hundred percent correct (For example it talks about the Earth being round [Isaiah 4:22] and hangs on nothing [Job 26:7], the ocean's currents [Psalm 8:8], the first and second law of thermodynamics [Genesis 2:1,2 and Psalm 102:6 respectively], and dinosaurs (more specifically the leviathan) existed [Job 40-41]. Here is a link, if you'd like to read more on this topic. http://www.icr.org/article/modern-scientific-discoveries-verify-scriptures/). .) So now we have a pretty okay grasp of the science in the Bible. It's not a science book, but whenever it references science it's always completely correct. So just because it doesn't talk about aliens' existence or lack thereof doesn't inherently mean that aliens cannot or do not exist. Now if the Bible blatantly stated that aliens don't exist, then I'd firmly believe that aliens don't. However, there is nothing in what I've read or studied to suggest such content in scripture.
"So then," You might be thinking, "What's the point in this debate? The Bible says nothing about aliens, right?"
You are only partially correct, dear friend. Here is a link, if you'd like to see what I mean. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c012.html For those of you who do not care to read all that, fear not, for I shall summarize. The Bible does not explicitly confirm or deny aliens, but God intentionally makes Earth before creating any of the other celestial bodies, the entire universe immediately falls into decay with Adam's sin, and Christ died ONCE for the people on earth. It would be vastly unfair of a perfect being to create another planet with intelligent life on it while keeping Earth at center-stage. Therefore, no, I do not believe in the existence of aliens.
But, for the sake of discussion, let's say we somehow stumble across the little green men while exploring some other terrestrial ball billions of light years away. There are two obvious things that we can clearly deduce from this encounter. Firstly, aliens clearly DO exist, and there is no use in denying it. Secondly, either God created more life than we first realized, or life evolved on other planets as well.
It's the second question that proves important in this particular debate. Did God create more life, or did other things just...evolve? Well we've already established that God most likely didn't (though there might be a possibility if you factor in alternate universes), so let's take a peek at evolution. In order for this whole theory to be correct, science has to make a huge claim: life created itself. While yes, random chemicals can do some pretty weird things, creating LIFE out of NOTHINGNESS is impossible without divine intervention. But assuming for a moment life was SOMEHOW impossibly created TWICE, what are the odds of two Goldilocks (perfect position in space) planets? Take enough silver dollars to fill the state of Texas two feet deep and paint three of them red. Now blindfold somebody and plop them down somewhere with instructions to pick up only one. The odds that they'd pick up the red silver dollar are about the odds of another Goldilocks planet happening by chance.
Good luck.
So in conclusion: No, I do not believe that aliens exist, and I believe that if they were discovered, it would only bring more glory to God who is able to find that red silver dollar as many times as He likes because...well...He's GOD.
I just wanted to point out, we have found many planets that exist within habitable zones that appear to be Earth like. The odds don't seem to be to ridiculous.
That's nonsense. Finding a planet that is near the same distance from it's sun as the Earth is from our sun is an astronomically far cry from knowing there is life on that planet. If you take the supposed number of planets in the supposed habitable zone, and compare that number to the 1 in 1kazillionbatillion odds of things being ordered for a living cell to exist in nature..........every one of those planets would face the same odds and the odds far exceed any number of planets wished for by people who love gambling more than they love common sense.
Ah, thank you very much! I found this site very interesting. :) Good read.
However, the issue is also that there's no life on said planets. Aliens are by definition alive (well...unless they're rock-monsters or some weird form of sentient gas haha) so the problem still remains. Still though, good website! Thanks for that! :)
The "aliens" teachings, real and experienced or rumored or imagined, are doctrines of devils. Even if they are an advanced people who lives on a planet outside our solar system, which I strongly doubt, they are liars as they present themselves as the gods of the universe, denying God the Creator of all things including "aliens" if God created them which I doubt.
If they are real beings, they are demonic in nature.....seeking dominance of Creation. If you go along with any of the stuff they are presented as, and agree with the stuff they or others claim about them when it is not firmly based on the word of God, you are falling into their spell of lies.
It's just all one big deception. They are demons in disguise doing whatever they can to make people believe they have the right to exist as sinners outside of Hell.
There is a point of no return beyond which a person will never be saved, due to the hardening of their hearts they willfully chose against God. That is when God gives them over to "a reprobate mind". Fallen angels cannot be saved. "Aliens", whenever people claim to have communications from them, always seem to be of reprobate mind. We do not go by that, not by what they say, but even their own words would indicate they are of reprobate minds, cannot be saved, and therefore all of their teaching is demonic in origin as are they....., we go by the Bible which only ascertains doctrines of demons from Hell, a spirit of Anti-Christ.
I think they are just demons in disguise, and anything people think is real from them is a deception.
May I ask again if you have any scripture with which to back up your claims? I'm sure you must have read the Bible many, many times, and have studied this topic in-depth or you probably wouldn't be debating this point lest you accidentally say something that isn't rooted in scripture and lead everyone astray. So, going under the assumption that you have studied this and are thus knowledgeable in this topic, may I please once again request that you provide some form of scriptural evidence? Please just share with us a verse or two to back up what you are saying. If you can't back up your claims in scripture, then may I suggest you rethink entering a debate on the topic?
The whole Bible backs up what I am saying. The idea of Nephalims people write long books about and make all kinds of assumptions in is only in what, five verses in Genesis? If you can't see the Bible truth in what I am saying, posting chapter and verse references in line with my statements will not convince you.
Okay, thank you for the comment, but that still didn't help convince anybody that you're right.
Firstly, the Nephilim aren't just in those five verses. They're also in Numbers 13:33, Joshua 14:15, 2 Samuel 21:16-20, Deuteronomy 3:11, Amos 2:9, and in Deuteronomy 2:10.
Secondly, what's interesting to me is that without even one verse you can have your doctrines about aliens and demons but when someone else has FIFTEEN verses that clearly outline a specific event, you are free to say it's 'just an assumption'.
Thirdly, if "the whole Bible backs up what I am saying" as you put it, then surely it wouldn't be too difficult to find JUST ONE verse to support your claims, would it? Yet so far you haven't even been able to do that.
And finally, to quote something you said to someone else: "When you say "Christianity or the scriptures teach this or that" you should be able to quote that scripture. If you are not quoting from the Bible when you say it's scripture, you are not adhering to Christian teaching....and the Apocrypha is not the Bible, even if it is in the middle of the Catholic Bible."
Once again, I am not trying to slam your opinions and views, as you are certainly entitled to them. All I'm asking is that you simply prove it.
If you cannot find even one verse, then I'd say it's safe to suggest that you probably rethink your claims.
Some of the people, most of them, here, are obviously dead in their sins and in danger of the fire of Hell. Many of them believe in "aliens", a belief which goes hand in hand with believing they have the right to exist as sinners outside of Hell, and can become their own gods through applied science to achieve immortality.
They talk today of downloading consciousness into a computer so a person can live forever...the Bible talked about such things thousands of years ago, giving life to the image of the Beast, so that it willfully commands worship.
It's another clear sign that we are in the end times and Jesus is coming back soon. God will not allow sinners to achieve immortality in any way, and when they think they have achieved it they will be struck down just like the Tower of Babel where God said nothing would be restrained from them if He did not stop them, and He confounded the languages so they split up.
If humans found life somewhere else in the universe, what would that say about God?
Honestly ? A lot of them would start questioning God. Then they would start some weird thing where they examine the bible everyday pointing out all the things that do not make sense. There would also be the select few who would compare the bible to the life we found and see if there are similarities with the two.
would he exist?
There will always people who believe in God and constantly say he would even if we find something that proves he doesn't exist. So we mine as well say that he does.
Would we never be faced with this scenario anyways?
Scientist are working really hard on finding planets with life on them. they are actually finding some that are similar to earth. So the possibility of this happening is high.
god all the way, we have no proof of aliens... however there is no proof of god but we have better evidence about god like the bible and jesus etc but aliens are only a theory inside one's mind we haven't heard about any real life alien stories. OOh and I bet that area 51 have loads of ufos and weird creatures every day
The minimum argument length is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.
im not going to post my usual novel nobody reads them anyway.....so in a brief sentence if you would rather watch than read I suggest for your viewing pleasure rob skiba and trey smith ...if you think you have an opinion its probably poop compared to these guys ...they can tie aliens science creation egytians and greeks and the bible and all other weirdo things in this area all together in a well thought out well presented extremely well proved package ...this should basically end this debate as nobody has ever viewed these guys and debunked them or even tried most just shut the hell up and walk away....convinced that they have been living in a matrix
Some people beleive that god has no form, the nature is god, the five elements (also the sun and the moon) are considered as gods.And there are some people who think that God has a form(a human form) but with higher capabilities. The existence of aliens is highly possible if we consider the speciation.But it is not necessary that the alien life forms have large heads and human like body.Basically any living organism (Even microscopic) could be considered alien. Thus if God is considered as the 5 elements ,nature or something like that then I would support God.Some consider that the aliens(human like) are misinterpreted as Gods with human form.
Aliens will exist, and they will have their own ideologies, their own box offices, their own Monday to Friday's, their own garden centres, their own furniture and videogame shops, their own high school reunions, and their own celebrities and Irish histories.
Because of this the knowledge of aliens won't have any bearing on the question of the existence of God.
