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30
11
Things have changed It will go back to normal
Debate Score:41
Arguments:44
Total Votes:44
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 Things have changed (23)
 
 It will go back to normal (7)

Debate Creator

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Has Trump set the new standard for politics?

There was a time when we were able to respect each other to a certain degree despite political differences. There was a time when presidential candidates had.. humility and dignity. Now, don't get me wrong - I know not every candidate or president in US history has been perfect, but... I think we're way past the debate of whether any of these candidates are "perfect". We're actually debating which candidate is .. tolerable. We did that in 2016 as well. 

So my question to you is ... is this a new era in politics? Will we see more candidates like Trump? Will we see more debates like the one we saw the other day? Has he set a new standard, or his he just a very very bad apple on a tree that is usually alright?

Things have changed

Side Score: 30
VS.

It will go back to normal

Side Score: 11
3 points

I absolutely think things have changed but I also think....hope....they'll get better. People were so disgusted with how Obama ran things (though he still acted classier than Trump ever has) that they voted for the least qualified candidate, though again....in that election and in this one, neither candidates are a good option.

In part I blame the media for the perpetuation and growth of an "us vs. them" mentality, but our current 'leader' has strengthened that mentality by consistently screwing up and then blaming others and claiming to be a victim. I would love to see an honest candidate that doesn't resort to consistently attacking the 'other side' and who would actually work to try to mend this country. I don't know if or when that'll happen in my lifetime but I can hope.

Side: Things have changed
2 points

No. He's just taken the old standard Hitler used and modified it for Twitter.

Side: Things have changed
3 points

No. He's just taken the old standard Hitler used and modified it for Twitter.

That is an absolutely brilliant statement.

Side: Things have changed
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
2 points

No. He's just taken the old standard Hitler used and modified it for Twitter.

That really is literally what the man has done, so it irritates me no end when others mock the idea. His own ex-wife testified that he kept a book of Hitler speeches in his bedside cabinet, so do these morons think it's some kind of blind coincidence that his rhetoric is so similar?

Side: Things have changed
1 point

President Trump, has nothing to do, with Hitler. Congratulations, on Godwin's Law.;''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Side: It will go back to normal
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
2 points

President Trump, has nothing to do, with Hitler. Congratulations, on Godwin's Law.

Dana, the person who invented Godwin's Law says his fanbase are Nazis.

The man who pointed out that everyone compares everything to Nazis says it's OK to call alt-right protestors Nazis.

The original formulation of Godwin's Law goes: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one". That is, any discussion online is likely to turn into Nazi comparisons, at some point.

Its clear truth has led it to become famous on the internet. And it has been used as a kind of fallacy, where people argue that anyone who invokes Hitler or the Nazis has inevitably lost an argument, though Mr Godwin has made clear that isn't always the case.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/godwin-s-law-mike-godwin-internet-hitler-charlottesville-virginia-donald-trmp-a7892171.html

STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS. IT IS ROTTING YOUR BRAIN!!!

Side: Things have changed

Has Trump set the new standard for politics?

I don't know about that but he's set the new standard for idiocy.

Side: Things have changed
2 points

Yes, the Trump administration has transformed our political climate, as well as, to a degree, how the government is run.

What has made our democracy strong is an adherence to democratic norms, like mutual toleration and forbearance, as well as strong democratic institutions.

Since his election, Trump has undermined our norms and democratic institutions. He appointed loyalists and his own children to high ranking political positions, he undermined judicial authority (once threatening to break up the nineth circuit court when it ruled against him), and has gone to war with the concept of free press (threatening unfriendly media outlets with antitrust action and litigation and deeming criticism "fake news"). He has used the Justice Department to try and change up rules that limit his power, such as suppressing votes by attempting to stop the expansion of absentee voting. 

This style of hardball politics did not start with Trump, but accelerated under his leadership. The consequence is that both democrats and republicans must play hardball if they are to win. For example, democrats are now considering packing the supreme court. We are seeing a government that no longer strongly adheres to democratic norms, and that will certainly take a long time to fix.

Additionally, Trump has worsened what we might call the epistemological crisis, or post truth problem. The country is now divided about what is true, and is more polarized than ever. Conspiracy theories are thriving, and are impacting how people vote and how they treat fellow Americans. There are politicians, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, who are gaining votes because they believe in conspiracies like the existence of a deep state.

Trump also signed an executive order last week, Executive Order 13957, that would expand the number of civil servants a president can appoint from around 4,000 to hundreds of thousands, and would remove protections for hundreds of thousands of civil servants, allowing them to easily be fired and replaced.

Trump has made clear his intentions to consolidate as much power as possible, and especially if reelected, would increase the power of the presidency.

Trump has also been able to transform the judiciary, appointing hundreds of judges to lower federal courts, as well as 3 supreme court justices. These judges serve lifetime appointments, and will ensure that Trump's legacy lasts far beyond his presidency.

Side: Things have changed

Congratulations on a brilliant post. We need plenty more of these around here.

Side: Things have changed

I don't give Trump that much credit. He is not so strong or so smart that he can single-handedly set a new standard.

Our norms and democratic institutions have been undermined over a period of time by both political parties and the media. And the people have cheered them on.

For example, Obama couldn't get things done because the conservatives blocked him. So he expanded the executive powers. That was an escalation. And, yes, Trump has continued with the escalation.

This style of hardball politics did not start with Trump, but accelerated under his leadership. The consequence is that both democrats and republicans must play hardball if they are to win. For example, democrats are now considering packing the supreme court. We are seeing a government that no longer strongly adheres to democratic norms, and that will certainly take a long time to fix.

The country is now divided about what is true, and is more polarized than ever. Conspiracy theories are thriving, and are impacting how people vote and how they treat fellow Americans. There are politicians, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, who are gaining votes because they believe in conspiracies like the existence of a deep state.

I couldn't agree more. I just don't exalt Trump by giving him the credit ;)

Side: Things have changed

Yes. Because President Trump does not bullshit America willfully, a new standard has been set for American politics. I am not saying the President is perfect, nor am I saying I auto agree with him, but I respect him him. As a centrist, I don't fit in either Party, but I do respect my President.

Side: Things have changed
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
1 point

Because President Trump does not bullshit America willfully

For the life of me Dana I just do not know how anybody could possibly ever believe that. Here is his documented record of bullshitting America willfully over the last four years:-

‘Tsunami of untruths’: Trump has made 20,000 false or misleading claims

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/13/donald-trump-20000-false-or-misleading-claims

And as you can see, that was just his count as of July 9th this year.

Side: Things have changed
YIsRisenLord(1200) Clarified
1 point

Listen honey. I know we have different veiws. If you want to be a Muslim or a leftist, that is your liberty, but I want to be a Christian, and a centrist. I don't like everything my President does, but I am nit perfect either, so judge not. I don't want to be caught up in the hate train.

Side: Things have changed
0 points

I'm afraid this clash which was expected to be a heated, but reasoned debate between two politicians of opposing ideologies degenerated into a disgraceful scene of cringe-worthy personal insults has been frowned upon by most Americans.

The American public, who by all accounts are deeply ashamed at the juvenile antics and petty bickering of two of their most senior politicians in the middle of a global health and economic crisis would never again wish to experience, nor tolerate another MEDIA CIRCUS SPECTACLE AT ITS WORST.

Note the stark contrasting tones between Trump vs Biden and the statesman-like debates between say, Ronald Reagan and Walter Mondale as well as John Kennedy vs Richard Nixon that were more civilized, mature and commensurate with their positions of national/international responsibility.

MAN, MAN OH MAN.

Side: Things have changed
1 point

which was expected to be a heated, but reasoned debate

By who? Lol. Trump thinks debate is the same thing as talking shit about someone else.

Side: It will go back to normal
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
1 point

I mean, literally who expected that to be a reasoned debate? Clearly, that was going to be a long session of Trump saying, "I'm awesome", and Biden saying, "No you're not".

Side: Things have changed
Miocene(707) Clarified
1 point

Well,both parties, especially Biden had the opportunity to give a statesmanship like performance but they both blew it big time.

Instead of seizing the coast-to-coast television show time to make Trump look like a blustering, egotistical buffoon, ( which he did) and himself as a latter day Franklin D. Roosevelt Biden was overwhelmed by the irritating bantering and interruptions of Trump and joined in the custard pie throwing contest.

As we all knew, but hoped differently, Trump was going to behave as he did.

Bidens P.R., people and script writers should have had him programmed to remain calm and focused on the issues.

It is a P.R., disaster to attack you opponents or competitors with personal insults or to highlight their weaknesses head on.

If by stating the strengths of your own policies you spotlight the flaws in your rival's agenda that's fine.

Have you ever heard of the Ford Motor Company attacking Toyota, or Mercedes disparaging Audi?

No,like all professional corporations they accentuate the positive features of their vehicles which they hope will outshine the competition.

Maybe the big guy put too much water in his bleach as he now has covid-19.

Side: Things have changed
2 points

Ask me after the smoke clears.

We're on the verge of a civil war or probably more likely, violent uprisings in a lot of places around the country.

Hillbilly empowerment is dangerous.

I have a hunch this might be good for the country in the long run. Not the the half million dead Americans, that's never going to be good. But there are aspects that could become much better such as the death of the current poisonous right wing ideology. The old expression: "Give them enough rope to hang themselves" comes to mind. But there are a lot of examples of right wing delusional thinking such as that the vast majority of climate scientists are wrong but the tiny number of climate scientists who work for large fossil fuel companies are right. Or that voting for Republicans is good for the working class. Then there's racism, another cornerstone of right wing ideology.

Call me Pollyanna, but I wonder if this disaster might very seriously damage or even kill the conservative movement. I usually call it the conservative bowel movement but I wanted to be polite. Pollyanna was polite.

Side: It will go back to normal
1 point

Trump did not change the U.S.A. very much. I think if Biden wins, there will be 0 changes. If Trump wins, we will have a higher chance of things changing (a little bit). I am routing for Trump, and my parents (and grandparents) are very likly to vote for Trump.

Side: It will go back to normal

Trump is not the catalyst, he is the result of decades of party line and media radicalization.

The change has been gradual over decades.

It roughly started with the Clinton administration. Conservatives hounded him over a sex scandal. Then when Bush became president, the Libs hounded him over Iraq. Then when Obama became president the conservatives claimed he was a Muslim from Kenya.

And the media has been an accomplice the entire time. Getting people riled up. Before Fox, the media on television had a liberal bias. The media on radio has had a conservative bias. The libs tried to break into radio and the conservatives into TV. The conservatives succeeded with Fox. Fox was born out of the frustration conservatives felt because they couldn't get their message out.

Then technology empowered the little people. An average person could start a Pod-Cast and they can say whatever they want. So they decided to say what the people wanted to hear. And the people started to listen to outlets that presented their point of view.

All of these things, together, radicalized the people to the point where if Trump disavows racism multiple times, the people will not believe it. If Trump makes a mistake, they claim he did it on purpose and with evil intent. He can't win in the court of public opinion and this pisses him off. And, since he doesn't have a filter, he expresses his frustration which is then used against him. This creates a vicious cycle. Kind of like it is here on CD. Conservatives and libs calling each other names, not listening to the other side, not wanting to come together and find some common ground, and escalating the hypocrisy and hyperbole.

Trump is the product of that radicalization. He was radicalized along with the people. Trump is not the catalyst, he is the result of decades of party line and media radicalization ;)

Side: It will go back to normal
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
2 points

Trump is not the catalyst, he is the result of decades of party line and media radicalization.

That's absolutely right. And by voting for him, you legitimise it. You are basically saying, "All of that was necessary so we could be led by a man who lies ten times before he even brushes his teeth in the morning." A very similar thing happened in Germany where the German people gradually became tired of making concessions to Europe and fell into anger and outrage. Then along came Hitler to sort it all out and make Germany great again.

And the media has been an accomplice the entire time.

Joe, the media is not to blame for the failure of the US political system. The reason the media is so openly partisan in the United States is because there is no legislation in place forbidding it, and that in turn is because partisanship suits capital better than no partisanship does.

You are pointing your finger in the wrong place. The US system is corrupt from top to bottom, and the media only reflects that in its coverage. Political campaigns require large scale financing, and so the only candidates who can participate in elections are the ones who get the nod from the providers of that financing. It does not take any kind of genius to work out why that is a terrible idea for the average Joe, and if you throw time into the equation then the distance between candidates and the interests of the average Joe is only going to increase.

Side: Things have changed
Rusticus(809) Clarified
2 points

This is all about the power of propaganda. Very few people realize the power propaganda has. The right wing has used propaganda very deftly. The left can't get it's shit together and do anything about it. You have right wing radio talk show hosts getting idiots so worked up that they grab their guns and drive to NYC to run into a pizza shop with no basement to save nonexistent children in the nonexistant basement from a satanic pedophile ring led by Hillary Clinton.

The right wing has tapped into a ragging river of idiocy and stolen tens of millions of weak minds.

Side: Things have changed
joecavalry(39836) Clarified
1 point

Well look at you being all civil and shit ;)

OK, I agree with everything except the Hitler/Nazi Germany part.

Side: Things have changed