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Debate Info

16
11
I still want govt. health care I don't want govt. health care
Debate Score:27
Arguments:21
Total Votes:32
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 I still want govt. health care (12)
 
 I don't want govt. health care (9)

Debate Creator

joecavalry(40163) pic



Here's an example of how government agencies work.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/13/FDA-Admits-to-Massive-Conflict-of-Interest.aspx

The agency’s scientific reviewers repeatedly and unanimously decided that the device, known as Menaflex and manufactured by ReGen Biologics, was unsafe because it often failed, forcing patients to get another operation.

But after receiving what an FDA report described as “extreme,” “unusual” and persistent pressure from four congressmen, agency managers overruled the scientists and approved the device for sale in December. All four legislators made their inquiries within a few months of receiving significant campaign contributions from ReGen, which is based in New Jersey.

 

I still want govt. health care

Side Score: 16
VS.

I don't want govt. health care

Side Score: 11
2 points

The whole premise of this debate is the following:

The government cannot be trusted to offer publicly run health options or services.

The evidence presented is: The government failing to prevent a private company from selling a harmful product in a single instance.

The biggest logical fault here is the evidence, which shows the government failing to stop a company from selling something harmful. As bad as that is, the evidence shows that a private entity is committing a worse offense by knowingly producing and selling a harmful product.

If the FDA never existed this product would have gone out anyways. There would have been no process by which to stop its sale.

In every instance that the FDA "fails", there is always a failure of private entities. When the FDA allows (accidentally, or through corruption) a bad product to go on the market, it is allowing free enterprise to go on without an interruption.

When the FDA succeeds, when it stops a bad product from going on the market, it is doing so against a free market decision that is deemed to be hazardous.

At any rate, would the people who are using this as an example of why the government can't do this or that actually propose that the FDA be abolished? Is it doing more harm than good? Is the government program helping, harming, or having no effect overall?

Side: I still want govt. health care

Hmmm..., this is actually a well thought out argument. One up vote for you ;)

Side: I don't want govt. health care
1 point

Nicely conceded. Always good to see minds being changed by reason.

Side: I still want govt. health care
0 points

What the heck does this have to do with health insurance?

Side: I still want govt. health care

Well...., government agencies are inefficient, wasteful and corrupt. Nationalized healthcare is another government agency. ergo.... (the proof is left for the readern ;)

Side: I don't want govt. health care
xaeon(1095) Disputed
1 point

And do you really believe that this kind of thing doesn't happen in a private corporation? Was it not lobbyists from a private company that paid the government workers off in the first place? Again, what's the point you're making?

Side: I still want govt. health care
Mahollinder(900) Disputed
1 point

Nationalized healthcare--

What nationalized healthcare?

Side: I don't want govt. health care
0 points

So doesn't that mean the government needs to be sorted out rather than national healthcare? It brings way more benefits than negatives... it's like a fat kid on a see saw.

Side: I still want govt. health care
0 points

... and RenGen is a private company. I fail to see how this makes government worse.

That's like, "hey Joe, I just brewed up some poison, will you feed it to my wife?"

"I don't know David, sounds sketchy."

"Okay, here's 50 bucks."

"Sure I'll poison your wife buddy!"

See, Joe's definitely the bad guy there, not poor innocent David.

Side: I still want govt. health care

Does this really surprise anyone? Do you really think the FDA is the only corrupt organization in the federal government? Until lobbying is outlawed it will never end -- at least legally. What we have in this country is legalized corruption.

Side: I don't want govt. health care
jessald(1915) Disputed
2 points

No organization is perfect. It's good that the FDA is taking actions to fix its shortcomings. They get it right most of the time, but occasional failures get all the attention. What's your alternative for ensuring that our food and medicine are safe?

Private health-insurance companies have a much more fundamental flaw: profit takes priority over keeping people healthy.

And with regard to lobbying, that shouldn't be illegal. US citizens have a constitutional right to petition our government. Whether this right should apply to corporations is a good question though...

Side: I still want govt. health care
1 point

The FDA is so corrupt that it lacked the decency of disclosing the names of the four congressmen!

Accountability my ass!

No people are born this stupid, stupidity must be taught.-Lawnman

Side: My health is my burden
1 point

Hahaha! That's funny because the corruption is tied to New Jersey. XD Don't you all just love my little state?

Side: I don't want govt. health care

I went to Jersey once and I spent hours on the turn pike. I kept on missing my exit and had to keep on turning around. I guess that's why they call it the TURN pike ;)

Side: I don't want govt. health care
Constant(28) Disputed
1 point

Joe, can I request that you find better sources to back up any debates or arguments you'd like to put forward?

"Dr. Mercola" seems to be an extremely unreliable, non-credible source. His other articles include teaching people that if they stay in the "right mood" they can defeat viruses.

Do yourself a favor and steer clear of hacks and propagandists, it doesn't help you, your arguments, or your beliefs.

Side: I still want govt. health care

I just did an extremely quick check and found this:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FDA+Announces+Preliminary+Results+of+Procedural+Review+of+Menaflex.-a0208445483

The FDA cleared Menaflex to be marketed for use in surgical procedures Surgical procedures have long and possibly daunting names. The meaning of many surgical procedure names can often be understood if the name is broken into parts. For example in splenectomy, "ectomy" is a suffix meaning the removal of a part of the body. "Splene-" means spleen. for the reinforcement and repair of soft tissue injuries of the medial meniscus The medial meniscus (internal semilunar fibrocartilage) is nearly semicircular in form, a little elongated from before backward, and broader behind than in front; Attachments

Its anterior end

..... Click the link for more information. in December 2008. The 510(k) review process itself has been under attack internally at the FDA and externally from Congress for some time. In fact, just this week, the FDA announced plans for the Institute of Medicine to conduct an in-depth evaluation of the 510(k) device clearance process, expected to culminate in a final report in 2011.

So, apparently some people are concerned. There are two possibilities. Those concerned have valid health reasons or they are promoting some some other agenda (pharmaceutical company or procedure).

I think this qualifies as an example of how government agencies work. If your objection was strictly due to Dr. Merola then I have provided another source. I hope this alleviates any concerns you may have.

Side: I don't want govt. health care
1 point

Knowing the history of Government and cooperation's both institutions are corrupt, they are like secrete lovers making deals while the rest of us sleep at night, they can't leave without each other. The best thing to do is grow your own food so you know whats in your body but with the discovery of biotechnology/GM (Genetically Modified) foods are taking over like Flat screen tv's.

They don't even want the public to know so no labels are being place on their products. The medical system that we have today is base on profit not curing any body, doctors get paid thousands no matter if you are cured or not. perfect example is the swine flu. When did government have to right to dictate to its citizens that if they refuse to take a flu vaccine they can loose their job?

As long we don't take responsibility to maintain good health the secrete lovers will tell us how to do it with honor in their hearts.

Side: Both are corrupt in my view