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Hi I'm new here, and I want to sharre the word of JESUS with you!
My name is Chad, I'm a youth pastor for a local group of middle school believers. I see a lot of kids come to JESUS every day and for that I am blessed! I'm here to share my opinions and convince some heathens (no offense) that everyone can come to JESUS! Please PM me if you want to know about my work or want to learn about your purpose in life.
I'm sory to see that the devil has gotten within your spirit and turned you way from GOD. You are blaspheming by lying about the bible like that, I hope you know that.
Your profanity is repulsive and you expect me to be warm fuzzy toward you? If I were your father, the nicest thing I could do for you is to take you out in the garage, hand you from the ceiling by your feet, and wash your mouth out with soap....after I gave you a good whooping. You want nice? Show respect.
Why do I think you are a mocker?............................................................The NIV is an evil perversion of the word of God, and for some reason I think you are a fake, a mocker.
All versions of the bible are welcome at my bible study, I don't discourage the kids from finding the Lord in any way, that would be me interfering with God's plan. I personally prefer King James, but have had to read through a few youth bibles so I can communicate beter with my group.
There is one English version of the Bible or there is no English Bible. One of them is God's word or none of them are God's word. If they are all versions, they all are different, so they must all be wrong. You are a heretic in this issue, and I think your just a complete fake anyways. You'll get tired of your stupidity soon enough.
Does it really matter if you are a Catholic or a Lutheran or any other denomination just as long as you believe in Jesus christ you are saved? Do the petty disputes over theology really matter to God when God can transcend them.
Petty disputes over theology are petty, and yes every word of every dispute you have with anybody at any time in any place matters to God. You must give account to God for every word you say, every thought, every action, every imagination, it all matters and it will all be brought out in the open by God and be judged by God.
The devil believes in Jesus Christ. Believing in Jesus Christ does not make you saved. If He saves you, you are saved. He saved me, I am saved. If a person is saved, and Catholic, that person will leave the Catholic church because the Catholic church teaches you cannot be saved now. The Bible says you can be saved now. If you have any doubt about being saved now, you need to get things settled to be sure you are not going to burn in Hell forever as a sinner. You need to be saved by the Savior and know for sure that He saved you from Hell.
So you are a Calvinist? Here is what I meant to say, if you let Jesus become the lord of your life and follow him in everything you do then you are saved.
You have to understand that language changes over time. I have no problem with how the living word is presented, so long as it is true to Christ. My parents are Catholic and Lutheran, so I was raised in a mixed cristianity home and understand that people come to Jesus on their own personal path. Stop calling me a fake. I'm just as christian as you are, and you're being very unchristly in attacking me for which bibles I read
Language changes over time, so you don't know what God said because you believe it was lost over time, so you have no word of God by which you can trust Him. I think you are a fake.....and I think you will get tired of your little game here
Just becuase language changes doen't mean the message of Jesus isn't the same. The bible is a living book. It's word transcends the material world! I shouldn't have to convince another christian og this!
Oh, the Bible is a living book which transcends the material world, so it really does not matter what it says because the language changes. You're a fake anyways, so of course you believe in fake Bibles that are changing and can't mean what they say.
I don't believe a single word you say, your a big fake, I don't believe you do what you say you do in a foursquare church, and if you do, it's a disgrace for that church to have somebody like you in a position of leadership......and I don't believe you are, I don't believe a single word you say......your a fake, prove me wrong.
How do you know the message is the same if the words have changed? Are you psychic, or just borderline psycho so you feel you don't have enough of a personality to be yourself and you feel the need to suck off of mine and From Within's characters?
How do you know? Can you provide evidence? Can you show me the originals so I can compare the King James Bible to the originals? I have never looked at the originals myself, please send me a link or something where I can see the originals to verify your assertion that all Bibles are wrong.
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
None of them say exactly what the original said because the original was not in English. If I show you images of original scripture, it would be meaningless to you. As such part of a message is lost when a text is translated. More is lost with more translation. Originals were translated to Greek and Latin before they were translated to English
So you are trying to tell me that we cannot say in English what people who speak other languages can say? So you are saying that is a Mexican took my words here, and translated them into Spanish, some of what I am saying would be lost because Mexicans are not smart enough to understand what I'm saying?
If you show me images of original scriptures, I can study the language and compare them to modern versions to see if any of the modern versions are correct. Please show me images of the originals.
I'm saying that what you say in English will not translate exactly. I'm not saying anything about Mexicans fool.
Consider the first line of Genesis in Hebrew,
"Bereshit bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets" which we translate as "In the beginning God created heaven and earth". Why is it that no one will tell you that "Elohim" is the plural form for God? Is it plural in the KJV?
Here is a link to the wiki on Dead Sea Scrolls, which is the closest to original images we will find:
I don't need to look at the link, since you already said it is not the original, which means you have no way of proving to me that your translation is correct, so that means you have to conclude that we do not have God's word because the originals do not exist. That is your conclusion, correct?
You have to look at the link if you want to see what language the bible was written in (hint: it wasn't King James's English). Who do you think started the notion that God guided the hands of the translators? The translators said it! If I spread holy lies I would call it ordained too.
My earlier translation is from the Old Testament and is in Hebrew. Hebrew texts for the Jewish religion have been passed down by Jewish people without extra translations to Greek, Latin, French, and English. The English translation of the Old Testament from Hebrew is the most accurate translation we have.
Let me be sure I understand what you are trying to tell me. You are saying the originals are lost, and it is not possible to accurately translate into a different language, so we have no way of knowing what God said, and the Bible is not God's word, so any version is ok because maybe we can get an idea what God was trying to say before the originals were lost and the meanings and content were lost in translations? Correct? If you can't answer yes or no, I'll try to reword it so I can be sure I am understanding you correctly.
Some versions may be better than others, but basically the originals are lost. Even the originals were written after generations of oral tradition, which is inherently fluid. I never said the bible was the word of God. What I'm saying is that today's version is not the original version.
Jewish people were the first to write down their oral tradition. They have a vested interest in maintaining it as exactly as possible because it is THEIR tradition.
They may have changed it, but of all people they are the least likely to.
Are you saying the Jewish people accurately copied the originals because God cared that His word be accurately preserved, but God does not care if we get it preserved accurately in English so He allows multiple wrong versions and He wants us to take our best guess at what His word is in our own language?
So Jewish people are most likely to keep the words of their own tradition accurately, but we have no way of knowing that anything they have is actually anything more than their own writings which they changed from generation to generation, so if God ever said anything, He didn't care about how people changed it and we can't really know that God said it I the first place.....even if the originals still existed, they were written by people and people are not God so who cares what they wrote anyways? Is that what you are trying to say?
Jewish people are most likely to accurately keep their own scripture, yes (scripture that was originally an oral tradition).
New Testament works got really muddled in 325 AD but archeologists are finding some original works and trying to translate them, so there's hope.
It's not about whether God ever spoke to people. It's about the answers to the univers not being in a tiny little book. God didn't write the bible, that doesn't mean that God doesn't speak to people.
Who said the bible is the word of God? People. Who wrote it? People. Who changed it? Different people at different times to fit their different wishes.
I'm trying to figure out what you are saying. All I said was that the NIV is not the word of God, and you have agreed with me by saying all English translations have errors so none of them can be the word of God and that includes the NIV. Now I'm trying to figure out what you are saying about the word of God, and so far it seems like you are saying there is no way of knowing what God's word is because the originals are lost and you can't prove God said anything in the first place.
So you are saying the word of God hasn't been lost, but the originals are lost and all the copies have errors, and there are more errors added in translation, so where is the word of God? Are you the voice of God to show us what His word is? Where is the word of God if it's not lost? Is it under a rock in the bottom of a river, and we can hear it in the sound of the bubbling brook?
Oh, you are a Bible translator? What languages have you translated the Bible into, and where did you learn the original languages? I thought you were going to show me the original writings so I can verify your translation.
So you are saying people who try to translate my words into a foreign language are not intelligent enough to accurately state what I stated in the language to which they are translating, and God is not capable of guiding people to translate His word accurately and He really does not care if they get it right or not? Is that what you are saying?
No. Are you saying God can not guide the writers of the NIV to write it correctly? Are you saying that God is in cahoots with the writers and hopes that all the readers of the NIV who think they are reading the word of God to be fooled? Is that what you are saying?
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
If you believe God does not care about you and you cannot be saved from Hell, no it does not matter to you what God's word is because you are going to burn in Hell forever and you don't care.
God's word cannot be changed anymore than I can change your word and then say it's your word after I have changed it. There is one English translation, the King James Bible. All other books which pretend to be the Bible are fakes. God cares about His word the same as you care about your word and don't want me changing it into my own version which would be fraud if I made my own version of your word and claimed it is your word.
You're such a jerk toward me lately I don't know why I bother being nice enough to try to get you to understand the truth.
I gave you reasonable answers and you hate me for it. I tell you the truth only for your own good. If you don't like it, admit you are wrong, agree with the truth, and then I won't be saying things you feel insulted by because it would be untrue for me to say you are a fool if you fear God. A fool says there is no God and does not fear God. It's a fact, it's not an insult. I'm being nice now trying to reason with you. What you call reasonable arguments are irrational when you are arguing against God. You don't like my answers because I refuse to entertain lies against God, Jesus Christ, or His word. If you would listen, instead of always being defiant, you would not feel insulted. As long as you say there is no God, or "I have no god belief" or "there is no evidence of God" or whatever stupid way atheist choose to word their willful ignorance, you will probably feel insulted when I say you are being a fool but it's the truth, not an insult, and I say it for your own good.....if you will hear it, it's good for you and you will begin to fear God and stop being a fool.
Yes it matters if you use fake English Bibles or the real Bible and here is a brief summary of why............modern translations are based on the work of two nineteenth century Greek scholars from England--B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort. Westcott and Hort, who were deeply involved in the occult, hated the Textus Receptus Greek text, from which the King James Bible was translated, so they conjured up THEIR OWN Greek text. This Westcott and Hort Greek text was based primarily on two very corrupt fourth century ROMAN CATHOLIC manuscripts: Codex Vaticanus (discovered in the Pope's library in 1481) and Sinaiticus (discovered in 1859 in a trash can at St. Catherine's monastery on Mt. Sinai). These are usually the "older" and "better" manuscripts that we keep hearing so much about. These manuscripts support most of the attacks in the new versions.
The Vaticanus is considered to be the most authoritative, although it is responsible for over thirty-six thousand changes that appear today in the new versions. This perverted manuscript contains the books of the pagan Apocrypha, which are not scripture; it omits the pastoral epistles (I Timothy through Titus), the Book of Revelation, and it cuts off the Book of Hebrews at Hebrews 9:14 (a very convenient stopping point for the Catholic Church, since God forbids their priesthood in Hebrews 10!). The attacks on the word of God found in these manuscripts originated in Alexandria, Egypt with the deceitful work of such pagan Greek "scholars" as Origen and Clement of Alexandria. Then in 313 A.D. the Roman emperor Constantine ordered fifty copies of "the Bible" from Eusebius, the Bishop of Caesaria. Eusebius, being a devout student of Origen's work, chose to send him manuscripts filled with Alexandrian corruption, rather than sending him the true word of God in the SYRIAN text from Antioch, Syria. So the corrupt Alexandrian text (also called the "Egyptian" or "Hesychian" type text) found it's way into the Vatican manuscript, then eventually into the Westcott and Hort Greek Text, and finally into the new "Bible" versions in your local "Christian" bookstore. Therefore, when you hear or read of someone "correcting" the King James Bible with "older" or "more authoritative" manuscripts, you are simply hearing someone trying to use a ROMAN CATHOLIC text to overthrow the God-honored text of the Protestant Reformation and the great revivals. God has never honored this corrupt text and He never will.
Anybody who uses the word heathens is either a fake or a troll. I'm a Christian so I know when I smell rat. And...Chad? Really? Are you a hanging Chad?
You come on here with a copy cat screen name mixing my name and icon with those of From Within, saying "I'm new here", and then you whine about how me and From Within gave you a hard time, proving you are not new and proving you are a liar. You give me no reason to say sorry for anything I have said, as far as I can tell there is no good reason for me to believe anything you say. To start with, you need to admit what your previous screenname was before you adopted this insulting and abusive parody screenname mix of mine From Within's names.
If you can be honest on this point, I can begin to give you some benefit of doubt. Until then, I have to believe you are a complete fake.
Both of you HAVE given me a hard time! I don't need your apologies, if you are unchrist like than you just are. It'd not me who will be passing judgement on you in the end, I just expected more support from other believers. I don;'t have to admit anything to you. You attack my name and profile because you can't actually give me a reason why you're so awful to everyone. you're using a scapegoat!
So what was your screenname when you were having a hard time with us? You said you are new here, you lied through your teeth and you expect me to believe anything you say? I'm not apologizing for anything, I see no reason to apologize to you when you are being dishonest and giving me no good reason to believe anything you say. Tell me the screenname you used before you lied saying you are new here.....until you do, you are nothing but a liar as far as I can see..........and you whine like a little faggot who whines a lot on here
I wouldn't call his church witchcraft somply because it is more accepting than most. That is how my church is. It gets more people n the door to hear the good word.
Pastor Wayne Cordeiro pastors the largest Foursquare Church at the New Hope Christian Fellowship in Honolulu, Hawaii. Cordeiro is a member of The Foursquare Church. Every Sunday about 3,000 people listen from the internet to the church service.
They have about 14,500 people in attendance every Sunday at the church. Foursquare Churches teach about morals, and I've heard some great preaching against sin by Wayne Cordeiro; yet the church's music is so worldly and carnal, and the women dress immodestly (most wearing slacks and pants). Pastors need to call sin by name for this very reason. Pastor Cordeiro preaches against immorality, while his church congregation remains worldly.
Here's a video from their church that shows just how worldly they are. Ironically the sermon by Pastor Wayne Cordeiro is titled, “THE NEW MORALITY.” What a contradiction!!! The church is as worldly as can be, singing Marvin Gaye's Mercy, Mercy Me! (May 15, 2012 during the church service). This is just evil. The disco floor doesn't belong anywhere, let alone in a church. What heathens! The women are all wearing tight pants, singing like heathens, serving the Devil. SHAME ON MINISTER WAYNE CORDEIRO AND THE NEW HOPE CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP CHURCH.
They're not behaving like Christians. What a joke! What a sad joke! What a joke that their pastor is preaching on “the new morality” after some hussy sings such a worldly song as Marvin Gaye's “Mercy Me!” I wouldn't have believed it unless I had heard it. The New Hope Christian Fellowship church is worldly and you shouldn't attend there until they start behaving like Christians should. Listen to some of the sermons and you'll hear and see what I mean. Their singing is like a disco nightclub with thundering drums, screeching electric guitars and singers with sensual inflections in their voice. Religious Rock music is of the Devil, bringing the world into the church.
The Foursquare Church is of the Devil. As the church is becoming more worldly, so is the world becoming more churchy. Jesus' would have been as upset today over worldly entertainment in our churches as He was 2000 years ago over ministers who turned God's house into a den of thieves, which is certainly the situation today all across the world.
Pastor Wayne Cordeiro pastors the largest Foursquare Church at the New Hope Christian Fellowship in Honolulu, Hawaii. Cordeiro is a member of The Foursquare Church. Every Sunday about 3,000 people listen from the internet to the church service.
They have about 14,500 people in attendance every Sunday at the church. Foursquare Churches teach about morals, and I've heard some great preaching against sin by Wayne Cordeiro; yet the church's music is so worldly and carnal, and the women dress immodestly (most wearing slacks and pants). Pastors need to call sin by name for this very reason. Pastor Cordeiro preaches against immorality, while his church congregation remains worldly.
Here's a video from their church that shows just how worldly they are. Ironically the sermon by Pastor Wayne Cordeiro is titled, “THE NEW MORALITY.” What a contradiction!!! The church is as worldly as can be, singing Marvin Gaye's Mercy, Mercy Me! (May 15, 2012 during the church service). This is just evil. The disco floor doesn't belong anywhere, let alone in a church. What heathens! The women are all wearing tight pants, singing like heathens, serving the Devil. SHAME ON MINISTER WAYNE CORDEIRO AND THE NEW HOPE CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP CHURCH.
They're not behaving like Christians. What a joke! What a sad joke! What a joke that their pastor is preaching on “the new morality” after some hussy sings such a worldly song as Marvin Gaye's “Mercy Me!” I wouldn't have believed it unless I had heard it. The New Hope Christian Fellowship church is worldly and you shouldn't attend there until they start behaving like Christians should. Listen to some of the sermons and you'll hear and see what I mean. Their singing is like a disco nightclub with thundering drums, screeching electric guitars and singers with sensual inflections in their voice. Religious Rock music is of the Devil, bringing the world into the church.
The Foursquare Church is of the Devil. As the church is becoming more worldly, so is the world becoming more churchy. Jesus' would have been as upset today over worldly entertainment in our churches as He was 2000 years ago over ministers who turned God's house into a den of thieves, which is certainly the situation today all across the world.
You liberals are always so closed minded, afraid of the TRUTH! I'm banning you because you didn't come here to open up your heart, but to pass judgement, and only God reserves that right.
We must all make judgments on a daily basis. When in debate we must then defend those judgements.
You came to a debate site to spread your message and you are looking for open minds and open hearts. Are you open to new ideas? Might I change your mind?
Anyone who cares to debate is concerned with convincing others of the truth. Sometimes a person debates and finds they are wrong and they change their position. That's happened to me here before. Are you open to the possibility of it happening to you? If you aren't, you are seeking qualities in others that you do not yourself possess.
I used to be a much worse person when I was in my early teens I smoke and drank and ignored jesus. I pushed people out and denied the Truth, but my heart and mind WERE opened! I have changed, and I know all of you can too
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
My relationship with God is certainly not your business. It is fine that you answer these questions, especially since your answers are wrong. I'm not interested in converting others or proselytizing. I am interested in the truth.
If you say you are saved, I believe you. The same will have to be sufficient from me. When you call me a liar, it won't be a sufficient argument, only a way to hide.
Well I don't believe you and I think you are lying. You say you are saved but you won't say how you know you are saved and I'm calling you a liar. Report is as abuse, I say you are a liar.
How can you claim to know anything about Gods' word if you don't know Him so you know the difference between His word and words that are not His word?
You sure make a lot of assertion for having no good reason for anybody to believe you have any idea what you are talking about. You say my answers to the questions about how I ma saved, when I got saved, why I got saved, who saved me.....my answers are wrong, but you claim to be saved and offer no answer yourself.......acting like you know something about God's word when all I can get you to say is summed up with "God doesn't put all of His eggs in one basket". So now you are telling me God's word is eggs that are scattered around and not kept in one place where it can be read? How do you know all this? How do you know what God's word is? You don't know what God's word is, and that is really what you are trying to say.....so you have no authority to speak on matters of God's word, His will, His purpose, or His Love.
I was frustrated with you and don't know why you want to keep arguing, I don't mean to be too hard on you, just trying to get you to listen....it seems like you want me to listen more than you want to listen.....much more, but I don't know why or what you are trying to tell me. You say you are saved, I ask how do you know, and you kinda put your nose up in the air like you're too good to tell me. You do seem like a gentle person and I really didn't mean to upset you....when people seem to be acting like tough guys, I act tough with them and I can over react easily when people seem to be arguing but not listening. That's the best I can honestly offer an apology.
This started as a discussion about the validity of different versions of the bible. That is the only debate to be had. When you ask me about being saved or about the word of God, I will respond as I did. It's not relevant to the discussion at hand.
I can tell you I am saved and offer as much evidence as you put forth in your claim that I am going to hell. That is NO evidence. You know almost nothing about me, so you can say I am hell bound and I can say I am not, and that's as far as the discussion goes..especially since what we are supposed to be talking about is the validity of different versions of the bible.
I will admit that some of what I say is only meant to rile you up. It's because I don't like your approach to certain people, so I behave toward you the same way I see you behaving toward others. If you find me infuriating, hopefully you can understand how others may feel. That being said, I appreciate your apology and I must admit that in some ways I was fairly petty. So I am willing to clean the slate and start over, given we stick to the subject at hand.
It is relevant because if you are not saved, there is no way you can even begin to know what you are talking about. If you cannot explain how you are saved, I do not believe you are saved and I will still call you a liar for claiming to be saved but unwilling to tell how you know this claim is true.
I know when people are saved, they are willing to publicly testify of the Savior and how He saved them. Your defensiveness makes me doubt so strongly that you are saved I see no reason to say you are nothing but a liar. I find you spineless, and pitiable, not infuriating. Now Bob, that guy can get on my nerves as I allow myself to be drawn in to his double talk denying he says something he said five minutes ago....but then I laugh it off because fools are funny.
There is no reality of different English versions of the Bible. God's word does not change. Either we have His word, or we have multiple versions which all disagree with each other and are all wrong and cannot be God's word. To say we have many versions and none is actually God's word is to agree with atheists in the matter, doubting the power and character of God to keep His word.
You were more than petty, you were a royal jerk and are still being petty claiming to be saved and acting like you have some pompous better than me reason for not explaining how you know you are saved, so I STILL do not believe you are saved and until you explain how you know you are saved, I'm STILL going to call you a liar.
The matter concerns physical texts, not the nature of my salvation. I am not a Christian as I am sure you've gathered. My salvation does not rest on the teachings of a physical book that was edited by a council of politicians to create the King James Version. My beliefs are far different from yours. What I would like to see is an explanation for why you believe your version of the word of God is the correct one. Especially given how new it is.
Why do you think it is called the King James Version?
There were numerous versions before it. Why is that one the word of God? The King James Version is much more recent than the life of Jesus.
Look up the Council of Nicea. Then tell me why these politicians have convinced you of their VERSION of the word of God.
Even though I am discussing the facts of known history, I expect you to run from the argument because you will say I cannot know what I am talking about. You will say I am doomed to hell and so none of the facts presented a worth discussing.
Maybe you will also call me a liar. The point is that you will utterly fail to address any point of fact that I have made.
I call it the English Bible, the King James Bible. You call it a version of the Bible, I call it the word of God, the Bible, and any version is fake and not the Bible.
God keeps His word. You want to imply God did not keep or preserve His word. I believe you are the liar, and God cannot lie.
You are not discussing the facts of knowing history, you are promoting disinformation which ignores God's promise and performance of His promise to keep His word pure for all generations on Earth and forever throughout all eternity in Heaven.
The Council of Nicea did not determine what God's word is, God did. I have studied history a lot more than you, and I did it before the internet was invented, I paid professors to teach it to me. You are ignoring history.......and when you say you do not have God's word, then you yourself are saying you do not know what you are talking about because you have no authority on which to stand. You are not the authority, no matter how much you think you know, you are not God.
It's a waste of time to run around on your rabbit trails, I have addressed your points enough to show you do not believe God cares enough about His word to make sure we have it in English, you believe in multiple versions which all disagree with each other and none are actually the Bible. I believe God kept His word and preserved it for the English speaking world in the Bible and there is only one Bible and the rest are fakes.
And I do not believe you are saved, I think you are a liar, you are lying about God keeping His word, implying He is not powerful enough to give us His word without error in English, and for some reason you will not tell me how you claim to know you are saved so I think are a bold faced liar for more than one reason......prove me wrong. Tell me how you got saved so I can understand how your claim to know you are saved can be possible. I think you won't do it because you can't do it because you are not saved. Whatever you mean by "saved", it sure seems like you are selfish about it and don't want anybody else to know how they can know they are saved.....and you don't like me because your heart is not right toward God. Your bitterness is your own problem, your lack of faith is your own problems.
God keeps His word. You want to imply God did not keep or preserve His word
I implied that the bible was not the word of God. That's different than implying that God doesn't keep his word. How come if some politicians as recently as the year 1611 write some stuff and say it's from God, you believe them?
I have studied history a lot more than you
Impossible for you to know that.
The Council of Nicea did not determine what God's word is, God did
And then God personally chose to include Ecclesiastes but not Thomas right? And then God wrote it down with his own hand? You put a lot of trust in those ancient politicians.
His promise to keep His word pure for all generations
Then how can the New International Bible be wrong? Isn't God preserving his word within it? Isn't the same promise within the New International?
I have addressed your points enough to show you do not believe God cares enough about His word to make sure we have it in English
I don't believe God gave his word in your bible, but that's not the issue. Why do you believe the old guys who wrote it? That's the real question.
there is only one Bible and the rest are fakes
Martin Luther wrote his before King James. Is it fake?
you don't like me because your heart is not right toward God
Is it possible to dislike you but be right with God? I think so.
It's God's word. You don't have to believe it. You will believe Hell is a place of continual torment for those who die in their sin, like you are dying in your sin.
I'm not going to answer your stupid unending accusations against God and His word. You will lose everything in the fire of Hell if Jesus Christ is not your Savior. Find out for yourself.
My assertions have not pertained to God. I have only doubted the bible. I already know you believe the bible is God's word, but why? Based on your threat I would have to conclude that you believe the Bible is the word of God because you are afraid of hell to believe otherwise.
Is fear the reason you believe the bible is the word of God?
Do you think saying stupid things and asking stupid questions will keep you out of Hell?
No more than avoiding straight forward answers will get you into heaven. If you said God told you, it would be an answer, but you can't answer.
I have told you why I hold my views, and you called me a liar. I will trust your answer and everyone here will better understand you if you will tell us.
I believe the Bible is the word of God because I know Him personally and I can tell the difference between His word and your word. You are a liar, God cannot lie. It's very simple.
Now you will probably copy and paste some garbage trying to accuse God of being a liar. Go look in the mirror to see who the liar is.
I am curious about why you say and believe the things you do. I asked a very straight forward question. You believe the bible is the word of God and that God told you this. Did he tell you personally or did he tell you some other way, such as the bible itself? I think you might be afraid to answer because you think it's a trap. It's likely that I will find your answer insufficient, but you don't care what I think anyway, so why not answer?
If you would like me to create a whole debate topic for you, I will. I probably won't even ban you right away.
I don't believe you are curious, I believe you are devious. If you are curious, use the internet and search for the truth until you are tired of looking or until you find it........but I already know by your own words that you reject the truth, so just keep on going with one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell, enjoy yourself as long as you can.
The internet can tell me about Nicea and about King James. The internet cannot tell me why you believe the way you do. Why do you believe the Bible is the word of God?
I can tell you that you have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell, and apparently you don't care so why should I?
I say you are a liar, I don't believe you are saved, you talk like a devil and a person who is saved cannot talk the way you talk.
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
Don't tell me you are saved if you explain how, when, why, where, and by whom and how you know you are saved, or I'll call you a liar.
You say you are saved. Can you tell me why you got saved, how it happened, and how you know you are saved? I am more than happy to answer these questions for anybody who asks, and I often tell the answers because I want everybody else to know the answers for themselves as I know for myself to the honor and glory of the One who saved me.
You need to be saved by the Savior, the Lord God almighty, God the Savior, Jesus Christ the Living God. Until you get saved, you are lost, dying, and on your way to Hell and I'm not interested in our red herring arguments.
When my argument is exactly about what we are talking about, it's not a red herring. Your focus on my salvation is a red herring when the topic is the validity of different books.
I think your part right,, its a sock puppet account by a current member, maybe Artrag but not Saint or FromWithjin. They wouldn't have used their own names. My money is on Artdrag since a prime tactic of an offender in anything is to accuse others of doing what you do and try to get away with. Artgag has even accused ME of being a atheist sock puppet! which makes no sense to me since why bother?
Saintnow and Fromwithin are both wackos. One overtly religious and one is super right wing crazy. Now we have Saintwithin? Thats too much of a coincidence. Pretty sure we're dealing with just one troll.
Really? You false accuse me of being a sock puppet and can't spot this fake account? I womder if this is because itsz you and think that talking to your own creation will throw us off the scent? Food for thought.
I was considering saying welcome. You're entitled to your view and to express them on a debate website.
However, your name is too similar to Saintnow and you've already banned your first respondent on your first debate so I think now you are just a fake second avatar for some other member of the site - such as Saintnow.
I'll tell you why......it's because he's envious and I take it as a compliment that the guy wants to imitate me, I don't know how From Within feels about it but it's really sad the guy does not feel he has enough character and personality to be himself without trying to copycat others.
ZIt was just an accident. To me it means that there is pureness in everyone, and thart everyone can let that part of them come out if they come to the lord
If you think this idiot "SaintWithin" is me, then you are a bigger idiot that the idiot who invented this childish way of trying to make me and From Within look bad....and if you think me and From Within are the same person, you're an idiot........but you never did impress me as being one of the brighter bulbs in the chandelier.
You are talking stupid and I don't know why you think you are funny. I find you funny not at all. It's offensive and stupid to joke about putting words in the Lord's mouth like that.....it goes against you, you have to appear before the throne of God at the Judgement seat of Christ and give account for every stupid word.
Jack Hayford (born 1934) is the hyper-charismatic pastor of The Church on the Way, The First Foursquare Church of Van Nuys, California. Hayford started the church in 1969 with 18 people; it is now the largest Foursquare Church (Pentecostal) in the U.S. -- about 9,000 members (of which about 80% speak in tongues as a prayer language, according to Hayford) with weekly attendance between 8,500 and 10,000. Hayford promotes the "four-square" doctrines of Pentecostalism -- that Jesus is Savior, Baptizer with the Holy Spirit, Healer, and Coming King. He also teaches the false doctrine that healing is promised in the atonement (Charisma, June 1992).
Pat Boone is an elder in Hayford's church, and Trinity Broadcasting Network's (TBN) heretical founders, Paul and Jan Crouch, are members. Hayford has authored more than two dozen books, and is also a prolific "hymn" writer, composing more than 400 popular charismatic "gospel" songs, including "Majesty" (which promotes the false charismatic "Kingdom Now" philosophy in which Christians are thought to be able to exercise kingdom authority over sickness and the devil in this present hour).
Hayford's teaching can be heard nationwide through his "Living Way" radio and television ministries. The half-hour weekday radio program was started in 1981 (originally titled, "FreeWay") and is now heard in over 40 states and in several foreign countries. In 1989, Living Way began a Sunday morning "live" broadcast of the church services from The Church On The Way. The now one-hour Sunday television program was started in 1977 and is seen in all 50 states on TBN (as well as in Canada and South Africa). Also on its 24 acre campus, the Church on the Way operates The King's College, The King's Seminary, and the Jack W. Hayford School of Pastoral Nurture.
Hayford writes in A Man's Worship and Witness (p. 80) that since the inception of The Church on the Way 25 years ago, over 40,000 "decisions for Christ" have been made at his church, more than 30 churches have been planted elsewhere, and over 100 pastors and church leaders have gone out to serve in other places. Also, Hayford claims to have given over $20 million to "serve human needs and spread the Gospel" throughout the world.
- Foursquare was founded in 1923 by flamboyant, twice-divorced Pentecostal female preacher Aimee Semple McPherson. (In a 1990 sermon about McPherson's ministry, Hayford defended her on the grounds that "she certainly should not be viewed as one who 'bounced' from marriage to marriage," and that in his view, her ministry was validated by the fact that "a half-century later, the devil still hates her sufficiently to spray lying venom on her memory.") In a 3/93 Charisma magazine article, Hayford says Foursquare was "one of the first to fully embrace the charismatic movement as being a legitimate movement of the Spirit."
Yet, Foursquare teaches physical healing in the atonement, "Spirit-slaying," spiritual warfare/demon-deliverance, tongues-speaking, signs & wonders evangelism, extra-revelatory prophecy, etc., etc. In the face of mounting criticism, Hayford now admits to a more flexible attitude. In his latest book, he also refrains from demanding tongues as a proof of Spirit baptism, and instead presents "spiritual language" as a "divine and desirable provision to assist every believer ..." [still error though]. (Reported in the 8/17/92, Christianity Today; the 3/15/93, Calvary Contender; and the 3/8/93, Christian News.)
- Evidence abounds of Hayford's hyper-charismatic, ecumenical, and occultic tendencies: (Reported in the 11/1/89 and 9/15/91, Calvary Contenders; and the 12/91, CIB Bulletin.)
(a) Hayford spoke at the 1989 Billy Graham/Lausanne II conference (with John Wimber, David Yonggi Cho, and Dick Eastman), and has appeared at other ecumenical events such as Robert Schuller "success" conferences. [Hayford also endorsed Schuller's 1996 autobiography -- Prayer: My Soul's Adventure With God.]
(b) In 10/91, Hayford visited Sydney, Australia with John Wimber (the "signs & wonders," Church Growth, Power Evangelism, Vineyard Movement founder and leader who died in 1997) to hold a "holiness conference" (a number of Catholic priests also spoke at the conference).
(c) In the 10/91 issue of Charisma magazine, Hayford relates a vision of seeing Jesus seated in heaven and then rising from the throne. Hayford states: "As the anointing caught in the folds of His garments, it began to splash out and fall over the church." Jesus then supposedly said, "I am beginning to rise now in preparation for my second coming. Those who will rise with me will share in this double portion of anointing."
(d) Hayford praised Richard Foster for his efforts in bringing together all the streams of the church. (Foster is the head of Renovaré, an international ecumenical organization that espouses the use of guided imagery and visualization as means of obtaining "personal spiritual renewal.")
Charismatic Bible Ministries (CBM) was founded in 1986 by hyper-charismatic Oral Roberts. Jack Hayford was one of the original officers and trustees of CBM. (Others included such hyper-charismatics as Richard Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, David Yonggi Cho, Charles Capps, Morris Cerullo, Paul Crouch, Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Charles and Frances Hunter, Robert Tilton, Casey Treat, John Osteen, Earl Paulk, Fred K.C. Price, Tommy Reid, Stephen Strang, and Lester Sumrall.) CBM conducts leadership conferences for its charismatic coalition, many of whom espouse dominion theology tenets. CBM's slogan is "Love and Unity through Signs and Wonders." When people look to signs and wonders to produce love and unity, they will find themselves united with everything that appears miraculous regardless of the source (Vengeance is Ours, pp. 125-127).
Paul Crouch, the founder of the blasphemous Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), is a member in good standing at the Hayford-pastored Church on the Way. Crouch publishes the monthly newsletter Praise the Lord . I think it's fair to assume that Hayford is in agreement with Crouch's theology, or else as his pastor, Hayford would correct Crouch and discipline him if necessary. The following are quotes from the 3/93 Praise the Lord newsletter: (All emphases in the original.)
(a) "I love a good fight! ... who the REAL enemy is! ... the heretic hunters [e.g., Martin Bobgan] ... searching endlessly for some new flaw in doctrine, picking, picking, picking some new splinter of error from the eyes ..."
(b) "... the many documented miracles under Kathryn Kuhlman's ministry and, of course, Benny Hinn's present-day ministry. ... if there is no power -- no healings -- no miracles in a church or ministry, the only thing left to do is to develop a new theology to justify their [the "heretic hunters"] pitiful, spiritually barren lives and ministry!" [Kuhlman was one of the first of many "stage show healers," in effect, blazing the trail for the Benny Hinn's and Oral Roberts of today.]
(c) "If miracles really did cease at 90 A.D. ... the heretic hunters were right! If we are not 'little Gods,' we will apologize to you in front of ten thousand times ten thousand before the Crystal Sea!" [Hayford has taught the "little gods" heresy himself, specifically in a message first recorded in 1979 (titled "Marching Against Mammon") and rebroadcast on a on a 10/2/86 Living Way radio program.]
(d) "A host of evil spirits ... responsible for much, if not most, of the personal difficulties, spiritual pressures and aggravated forms of evil that characterize our modern social order. ... this constant and fiendish disruption of the human social order is explained only by the mass activity behind the scenes of a vast, well organized host of wicked spirits under the control of their master prince. ... When will YOU take back everything Satan has stolen from you by bluff, bluster, lying and deceit? ... Say it with me -- 'Satan, I bind YOUR EVIL WORKS in Jesus' name.' Say it with me, 'I claim my healing, in Jesus' name; I take back what is mine, in Jesus' name!'" ["Name-It-and-Claim-It"/demon-deliverance].
(e) "If and when we finally lay down these petty doctrinal and traditional differences and JOIN TOGETHER as an awesome UNITED body and force, all hell will finally retreat into the abyss, and, together, we will bring back the king! ... When will we realize that the enforcement of Christ's Victory is UP TO US? " [Dominion Now theology].
(f) "Some of you have, indeed, grasped this truth and victory -- Glory! Some of you have repossessed your rightful ownership and possessions. ... Praise the Lord, David's God is teaching our hands to war too! Soon our enemy will be destroyed! Soon our enemy will have to yield even his remaining strongholds. Together, we are: 'Destroying the works of the Devil' -- just as Jesus commanded us to do." [Charismatic spiritual warfare]
Hayford is an endorser/participant in the National Evangelistic Census (NEC), a Kingwood, Texas charismatic/ecumenical ministry to "turn the nation back to God by winning our city to Jesus." NEC sponsors an annual one day "census"/global neighborhood survey where teams of two go door-to-door asking questions from a form and presenting the "gospel"; an NEC brochure predicts: "The angels in heaven will be shouting when the goal of 25 million souls are reported won to Jesus in one day!" (Among other endorsers are the Evangelical Free Church of America, Youth With a Mission, Campus Crusade for Christ, and A.D. 2000 & Beyond Movement, as well as charismatic-loonies John Osteen, John Hagee, Charles and Frances Hunter, Frederick K.C. Price, Morris Cerullo, Marilyn Hickey, Dick Eastman, and Richard Roberts.)
READ MORE: Jack Hayford - General Teachings/Activities
I wouldn't give you a dime for all the Charismatics in the world. They are a corrupted bunch, of the likes of Benny Hinn, Bill Hamon, Pat Roberson, Creflo Dollar, Oral Roberts, Peter Popoff and countless more.
This is a debate site not a religious statements site. You wanna go open up your heart? Go to Church. There are other religions here and you talk like everyone here is your religion. They are not.