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He can't. If god were both benevolent and omnipotent then he would not allow suffering to exist. That is why if God were to exist he could not be good.
But who was supposed to have created people? God. If he were compassionate he would have created humans so that they would be free of delusions that cause suffering to arise.
I have built computers in the past. After sometime, I treated them as God is said to be treating us. It's hard to build a computer that won't give you headaches after years of use ;)
God could end suffering by getting rid of liberals. I'm sure that liberals would claim that God could end suffering by getting rid of me and people that think like me. So what should God do? ;)
That's what I've always wondered. Why not just make us, with a natural desire to do good. That would not impose on our free will, it would just make sure that we aimed it in a positive direction.
I disagree. Why would a good God be obligated to eliminate suffering? I also don't see how him being omnipotent would require him to eliminate suffering.
I never said being omnipotent required him to end suffering I said him being benevolent would require him ending suffering. As God is supposed to be omnipotent so can do anything (including eliminating suffering) so if he were compassionate he would have ended suffering.
No no no. Omnipotence is a measure of power. As in an influence on something. Omnipotence is not omnicompetence. God cannot do everything. He can affect anything he wishes. He can do anything possible since he has infinite power.
Compassion doesn't require him to end suffering. He gave humans the ability to choose. They decided to choose to act in certain ways. If God took that away you wouldn't have a choice. You wouldn't blame a mother for the actions of her sons and daughters. They make their own choices. If they wish to cause suffering then so be it. Our morals aren't as transcendental as a deities. Our views are limited to our experience.
You are missing the point. Regarfless of additives your wouldn't blame a creator for the creations actions if they acted according to their own desires.
No, we don't blame powerless creators. Maybe that's why we don't blame a mother. Plus, how much are humans in control of our own desires with respect to God?
I have heard that I have no control, things are pre determined. Some people say He has no control, some that He is all knowing and knows everything I will do. I guess He stops me from doing everything that He knows I wasn't going to do.
Not according to the Bible. The womb only continues life.
Predispositions? Yeah they shape us. Our environment does to. Prediapositions give the basis. We function off that.
Predestination and predispositions are different.
How is that?
How can I possibly do something that he wasn't aware of before I did it. If He knows that I cross the street in 5 minutes, it is impossible for me to do otherwise. If He knows everything that we will ever happen to me, isn't He stopping anything else from happening to me? I may have free will, but my choices have already been made and He prevents me from changing them.
Not according to the Bible. The womb only continues life.
You don't believe in the bible. You don't gotta be sly amd try to wiggle out of this question. I'm asking you.
Predestination and predispositions are different.
What does predestination have to do with anything I said? I'm talking about psychological or even physiological predispositions.
I may have free will, but my choices have already been made and He prevents me from changing them.
He doesn't do anything like that. You make you choices. He already knows them. You still make the decisions. You cam change your mind. God would already know in advance. He didn't force you to do anything.
Wow. No I just totes hit the dispute thing. Oops.
Oh double oops. You said predetermined. I thought you said. Predisposition. Disregard my argument. I done messed up.
You have actually said this directly about yourself.
You don't gotta be sly amd try to wiggle out of this question. I'm asking you.
I thought I was being clear enough. The creation of life was that start of life from nothing. God is credited with doing it from dirt not a womb. But, mothers also aren't actually creating life. They are combining life and continuing it into a new organism. It isn't anywhere close to the type of creation God is credited with.
He doesn't do anything like that.
You can't actually know that at all.
You make you choices. He already knows them. You still make the decisions. You cam change your mind. God would already know in advance. He didn't force you to do anything.
Is it really changing my mind if He already knows I am going to do it the changed way? I only meant I can't go against His knowledge of what I will do.
Omnipotent means unlimited power and all-powerful which means he can do everything. That is what is supposed to be on of the things that make him God. The Mother never designed her kids and make them exactly how she wanted so that is not the same as with God. People do not deliberately cause suffering for themselves, every one seeks happiness.
All-powerful is not omnicompetence. God cannot do eveything. Omnipotence is a measure of power. Not capability. You need to realize that. Everyone doesn't seek happiness. Some people live to harm others. Some people wish to harm others.
No no no. Omnipotence is a measure of power. As in an influence on something. Omnipotence is not omnicompetence. God cannot do everything. He can affect anything he wishes. He can do anything possible since he has infinite power
You just contradicted yourself. First you said god can't do everything, then you said he can do anything.
Okay, god cannot do everything. He is not omnipotent.
God can do anything he wishes that is possible for him to do.
Anything and everything are synonyms. To say that god cannot do everything then to say he can do anything, is a contradiction. Isn't this also an oxymoron? You basically just said god can do anything he wishes, but then you go on to say that he can do anything that is possible for him to do; suggesting that god is restricted by something.
That isn't a contradiction.
Again, everything and anything are synonyms. Your argument is a contradiction.
Okay, god cannot do everything. He is not omnipotent.
God is all-powerful. This is only a measure of power or control. God is not omnicompetent. Omnipotence is in regards to power. Omnicompetence is in regards to capability. He is not omnicompetent.
Anything and everything are synonyms. To say that god cannot do everything then to say he can do anything, is a contradiction
You are not reading my argument properly. I said "anything that is possible". Everything includes the impossible. Or the logically impossible. God can do anything that is possible.
Again, everything and anything are synonyms. Your argument is a contradiction.
Read my ARGUMENT PROPERLY!!
" God can do anything he wishes that is possible for him to do."
Read the last part of my argument. That doesn't mean he can do absolutely anything or everything. It's what he can do that is possible for him to do. He has limits. Please read properly. It's annoying.
God is all-powerful. This is only a measure of power or control. God is not omnicompetent. Omnipotence is in regards to power. Omnicompetence is in regards to capability. He is no omnicompetent.
Definition of omnicompentent: Competent in every area; capable of doing everything
Definition of omnipotent:(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
As I have already pointed out, anything and everything are synonyms. Able and capable are also synonyms. Omnicompentent and omnipotent are the same thing. To say that god is omnipotent but not omnicompetent, is poor reasoning and a contradiction.
Definition of omnipotent:(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything
I don't care for the modern definition. I have definitions that say otherwise. The bible usually calls God almighty. Almighty as in all mighty. Infinite might. Power for God is a measure of his might not capability. He isn't omnicopetent.
As I have already pointed out, anything and everything are synonyms. Able and capable are also synonyms. Omnicompentent and omnipotent are the same thing
Omnipotent is unlimited power, force, or authority. Power as in a measure of strength. Force and on the influence on another body. Authority as in the ability to give absolute command. Omnicopetent is just being capable of everything. For one, God is only called omnipotent in one verse in one particular translation. Almighty is the most accurate. Omnipotence measure power, force, or authority. You need to realize what the bible actually meant.
To say that god is omnipotent but not omnicompetent, is poor reasoning and a contradiction.
No. It means God has unlimited power (as in a measure of might), force, or auhority. He is almighty. Almighty. Omnicopetence means being capable of everything. We know God isn't. We know omnipotence has a wide array of meanings. In God's case, in which I use he bible, it is describing his might. Not capability. Try again.
God could end suffering by getting rid of liberals. I'm sure that liberals would claim that God could end suffering by getting rid of me and people that think like me. So what should God do? ;)
Even of the two are together a benevolent God is not obligated to eliminate suffering just because you don't like it. Pain is necessary. Suffering comes with it.
It is not just that I don't like it. I'm sure every being who has ever existed doesn't like it. If it wasn't unpleasant than it would not be suffering.
If God were benevolent he would be obligated to remove suffering as to be benevolent you have to be compassionate and compassion is showing awareness for others suffering and the wish to relieve them of it.
Well pain receptors are pretty necessary so I will stick with that.
If God were benevolent he would be obligated to remove suffering as to be benevolent you have to be compassionate and compassion is showing awareness for others suffering and the wish to relieve them of it.
That's what Jesus was for. So make another argument. Also to be absolutely good one must judge and give punishment fairly and just. One must be unbiased by any earthbound feelings, which humans are full of.
Pain does not necessarily mean suffering, suffering comes from the mind not else where. God could have made us in a way we do not react to pain with suffering mentally.
Jesus would not remove suffering. People would still suffer even in heaven. People always suffer other something sometime even if they are in perfect physical surroundings.
Pain does not necessarily mean suffering, suffering comes from the mind not else where.
So if my leg gets blown off I just stand there and say "oww"? Whwn somebody hurts my feelings do I just sit there as if I'm deaf? No. Suffering is always going to exist. It existed as soon as pain existed.
God could have made us in a way we do not react to pain with suffering mentally.
So how would we act?
Suffer: To feel pain or distress; sustain loss, injury, harm, or punishment.
I would say pain only brings suffering. I guess it can bring joy too.
Jesus would not remove suffering.
There isn't any suffering in heaven. He would remove it.
People would still suffer even in heaven
They literally have nothing to suffer for. There is no pain or distress. Only joy.
People always suffer other something sometime even if they are in perfect physical surroundings.
You womt have a physical form. Eternity is outisde space-time. You would be fine. You would be metaphysical.
Another terrible link. Come on man. Don't we have enough problems with the people complaining about each other. You are supposed to stir the pot not melt it down.
Simply by using his infinite power to wipe out the forces of evil. It's already been established that 'evil' and 'good' are subjective, so that's no longer the issue. What he could do is just erase 'evil' feelings from the world. We'd still have our free will, so that wouldn't make him unjust, we just wouldn't desire to evil things.
But to do something evil is to disobey God, so if he were to make it so that we only feel like obeying him, wouldn't that be the same as removing free will?
I guess so, but honestly. Wouldn't you rather just have a natural inclination to do good, and go to heaven, than to have all of these choices, that may lead you to hell. If you're an atheist, you're already doomed to hell according to religious people. If only God had programmed you with knowledge of his existence, or a natural desire to love him rather than have a messenger tell you you should. Then maybe we'd be saved.
I guess so, but honestly. Wouldn't you rather just have a natural inclination to do good, and go to heaven, than to have all of these choices, that may lead you to hell.
Well, apparently the only choice that can lead you to hell is not believing.
If only God had programmed you with knowledge of his existence, or a natural desire to love him rather than have a messenger tell you you should. Then maybe we'd be saved.
I agree. It would be a lot easier to believe if God proved to everyone that he exists... Of course, Christians would say that he has already done that.
Man... I don't even want to say god doesn't exist. I know that if I do, I'll just get some Bible-humper in complete denial trying to prove how I'm incorrect. Like damn, who knew that debating could be so depressing?
I've been making this argument a lot lately, but anyways...
To be good is to obey God (Good is just "god" with an extra "O").
To be evil is to disobey God (Evil used to be spelled "evel". That's Eve with an "L". Eve was the first human to disobey God. She introduced evil to humanity).
God cannot disobey himself, therefore he can't be evil. So, he must be good, since he does what he wants. He created our moral code. If there were a moral code that guided him, other than his own, then that would imply that there is a power greater than him.
As for omnipotent, Jesus died for humanity's sins, which means that disobeying God is no longer unforgivable. The only rule that really applies now is to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord. So, I guess God just stepped back and said, "You guys are on your own!", since believers are going to be rewarded with eternal life anyways. Basically, humans now rule the world. We choose which direction to steer humanity.
God cannot disobey himself, therefore he can't be evil. So, he must be good, since he does what he wants. He created our moral code. If there were a moral code that guided him, other than his own, then that would imply that there is a power greater than him.
That "good" and "Evel" thing only works in the English language. It does not work in the original language used for the bible.
The last 2 sentences makes sense. Parents eventually throw their hands up in the air and say, ""Fine, go live your life any way you want. We'll see you during the holidays." ;)
That "good" and "Evel" thing only works in the English language. It does not work in the original language used for the bible.
Yeah, I know. I was giving the origin of our versions of the words... At least I assume that's the origin. It's just an easier way to remember what I think they mean in the Biblical sense. You have to realize that our words were spelled in a particular way for a reason.
The last 2 sentences makes sense. Parents eventually throw their hands up in the air and say, ""Fine, go live your life any way you want. We'll see you during the holidays." ;)
Yeah, and usually when the child screws up, the parents hope that he/she learns from their mistakes.