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And that's why Lebanon, Iraq and Turkey are just as important as Israel. It's also hard to become a democracy in the Middle East, as that silly CIA is always toppling your government.
Right, and by virtue of the Israel Lobby right here in America, our own 'modern democracy' is not so democratic anymore because of the Lobby's stranglehold on Congress and boycotts/blacklisting activities toward anyone critical of Israel.
Why should the United States care SO MUCH about this so-called 'modern democracy' in the Middle East? Does the U.S. support every democracy in the world, or does it support dictatorships, too?
Pretend for a second Israel didn't have a solid ally in the U.S.
How long would it take for religious fanatics to try to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Israelies under the banner of some long dead prophet who preached peace?
So then, I put it back on you. It's obvious why the U.S. would want any ally in the middle east. What would be your end goal of Israel not being an ally?
Would you like to see the entire middle east fall to misguided over-zealous religious nuts?
Are you saying that Palestinians dont die everyday in Palestine. They are under siege which means that no supply's can come in and out and israeli's are keeping them in very tight places when there are more Palestinians than israelis and yet they are taking Palestinian land everyday.
1. "How long would it take for religious fanatics to try to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Israelies under the banner of some long dead prophet who preached peace?"
This has just a little bit more to do with being forced out of your own home than it does about Islam.
2. "I say try because Israel kicks ass."
Then why the hell did you even say it? If Israel is so damn powerful (which they are, considering the fact that they are the strongest military power in the middle east), then why do they need America as a lap dog?
3. "So then, I put it back on you. It's obvious why the U.S. would want any ally in the middle east. What would be your end goal of Israel not being an ally? "
How exactly is Israel an ally to the United States? By ignoring U.S. requests and by taking back promises to stop illegal settlements? By giving our secrets away to other countries? By spying on the United States? By demanding that the U.S. heed to its every beck and call?
4. "Would you like to see the entire middle east fall to misguided over-zealous religious nuts?"
Would you like to see terrorism quelled? Because I will tell you right now that the USA's undivided, unchallenged, blind support for Israel is exactly what is driving it.
1. No, it doesn't. Resolution 181 was signed 60 years ago. No one with the wherewithal to remember is alive. If the name of god were not envoked, no one would want to blow themselves up to kill a bunch of people. Further, it was someone else's 'home' before it was their 'home.' Idiots have been fighting over that land for centuries. Before the Israeli state was "created" the Palistinian state was "created." So... what goes around comes around I guess? How about if people in that area stop acting insane, and maybe the rest of the world won't have to babysit them anymore.
2.Because, obviously the Palisitinian's who have drank the koolaid don't mind blowing themselves up if it kills a few Jews because evil jack-offs have convinced them that's what god wants, even though no religious text, even the effing Satanic Bible condones such behavior. And so I say they would "try" and in the process of "trying" kill tons of innocent people. And at the end of the day would still fail.
3. Fair enough. You do know I'm your one up vote for bringing up a valid point about lobbyists right? Did you think that was a mystery vote? I'm not saying they're a great ally. I'm not saying the U.S. benefits by having them as an ally. All I'm saying is that of the two crazies Israel is less likely to try and eventually make their way over here and blow up buildings because god said so. That's all. And you never answered the question why we shouldn't ally ourselves with them. There's several answers. Money, increased Muslim animosity toward the U.S. because of the alliance. I'm sure there's more. I think though that we have a moral responsibility to Israel since we were one of the key factors in it's creation, and because we were so late in calling out Germany on the evil of trying to kill all the Jews. And again, because they are the least likey in the area to try to kill U.S. citizens in the name of god.
4. No. What's driving anti U.S. sentiment in that region are crooked leaders' need to rally their people behind a common enemy. If cult leaders did not have the U.S. to call the great devil, they would simply find someone else. Yeah, Iraq was effed up. And we've had tons of disasterous mistakes in the region. But the fact is that any state that allows themselves to be controlled by whoever yells Muhamad (or Jesus, or Zeus) the loudest is going to turn into a fanatical state. And a fanatical state will always look for someone to kill in the name of god.
Hamas won elections in Gaza and the West Bank. The Iraqi elections resulted in religious parties dominating the government some of considered by the US to be affiliated to terrorist groups. Hezbollah has MPs in Lebanon. Iran carries out a voting system.
Modern democracy entails respect for human rights and the rule of law. Israel has not respected the human rights of the Palestinians. Look at the UN and Red Cross assessments of the Gaza blockade and current attacks. The Palestinians in Fatah controlled West Bank are treated no better. As for the rule of law, Israel has decided to ignore the recent UN resolution for a ceasefire not to mention countless others. Just recently, 2 Arab parties were banned from the election. The way Israeli settlers are allowed to abuse and determine the actions of the Palestinians underscores this point.
In effect modern democracy is denied to the people in the Middle East if they vote for a party not favourable to US interests. While at the same time the very values inherent in modern democracy are undermined by giving Israel free reign in the region. It is now harder to define what democracy is and means.
It's a piece of land. It's dirt. 3 psychotic groups of people believe their psychotic beliefs originated on that dirt. All the prophets are long dead. There's no evidence that that piece of dirt is any better or worse than any other piece of dirt.
Yet psychotic people are willing to kill other people over some dirt.
The fact is a bunch of people are alive and living now, there.
We know they exist, we don't need to read made up words on pages to know that.
And so, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish thing to do - the thing that all three psychotic beliefs say people should do, is live and let live.
Yet, these psychotics still want to kill eachother. Amen.
Well. As human beings, we should try and protect other human beings from crazy human beings, even if the human beings we're protecting are they themselves crazy.
Once again, this was never a conflict about religion. It was about the fact that the Israelis forced the Palestinians out of their own homes and off their own land, and then turned around and offered them a second-class citizenship if they wanted to be treated as such, but the catch is that they don't get their homes back, finders (stealers) keepers!
As a completely democratic state that ensures equality for its citizens, in addition to the legal and historical basis for a Jewish state in the Middle East, Israel must be permitted to exist and indeed thrive. Anybody watching a faintly trustworthy news organization would notice that the only military action taken by Israel in past decades has been either in retaliation for attacks by terrorist organizations or with the knowledge that there is an imminent threat. Hamas and Hezbollah both perpetrate continuous attacks against innocent Israelis. Consider the continued rocket attacks launched by Hamas operatives against Israel. Israel must be allowed to respond to these attacks with force to ensure its people's safety.
This situation just sucks. No easy answer. Yes, I guess the Palestinians were "driven out" but the Israelis were too. It's just an I was here first situation. Then in the 40's Britain "gave" the land to Israel and then armed Palestine. Really almost everything that was done here by any party has been bad.
If we don't protect Israel, however, someone is going to wipe them off the map. Lots of people want it. In fact, the fact that "everyone hates the US" and they blame Bush is really because of our support of Israel.
The honest solution: Can't they both live there together! I know, crazy. I wish it wasn't crazy though.
I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately, even if the Israelis really do begin trying for peace (which has actually never been on their agenda), the Arabs will never ever forgive them. But at least Israel could make a step in the right direction by suspending its god damn settlement program. It's hard to argue that it was an 'I was here first situation', because the Israelis have NEVER stopped trying to push the rightful inhabitants of that land out. Then they turn around and try to say 'hey look, we are the victims of Arab violence' whaaa whaaa whaaaa... its mind-boggling that more people don't understand the situation.
At least you acknowledge the amazing fact that Israel has done bad things, that piece of truth is damn elusive thanks to fanatics and the Israel lobby.
You're exactly right here, it isn't that easy, in any way shape or form. And unfortunately no one is innocent of all wrongdoing, including us (US for me). Growing up my family used to discuss all of this over dinner, and whenever one position was losing, my mother would switch sides. It confused me at the time, but she told me it was because no one side has all the truth, and there are no easy answers. I believe that's true and you are right, not enough people will acknowledge that.
If you believe in God then you must want to make sure God's commandments are enacted on earth especially those promoting what is good and right. To unconditionally support Israel undermines your belief in God because you support anything Israel does even if it goes against what God has told you to do. If you support Israel because you believe they have a record of doing everything that God wants to achieve then the god you believe in must be indifferent to human suffering, death and injustice. I do not know of any religion which promotes these values. In fact I think most religions encourage their believers to act against these forces.
It is worth remebering that, when Israel and the USA call Hamas terrorist, we should remeber Israel was a terrorist organisation,in fact as I remember killed english soldiers, and still has aspects of terrorism within its government.
Through terrorism, they forced the world to give them other peoples land, and now, that very Country of Israel , has again started a new terrorist action to achieve the complete seizure of ALL palistinian lands. The excuse of hamas rockets is really a cover,and is only a result of Israel trying to frustrate the Palistinian people.The true aim is to go in and complete the forcing of all palistinians out of palastine. That is what they hope to achieve by getting Egypt to open the borders, in order that Palastinians will flee to Egypt , which is why the Egyptian government is resisting the opening of borders, as they can see israels true intentions.
In times of a financial crisis around the world, we need to remember to Boycott All Companies with ties in Israel, and the USA. Nothing like loss of cash focus minds more on peace and away from agression.
The founding members of Israel used terrorism to gain a state. Now Israel claims it is an example of democracy in the Middle East. The US has hailed Iraq as an example of Arab democracy. Iraq is in reality dominated by religious groups, some affiliated to groups the US considers terrorists. The Palestinians had an election (it was accepted to be free and fair) and the majority of the population in the West Bank voted for Hamas.
The US refused to recognise the results and encouraged other nations to isolate them. Fatah (an opposition faction) members trained in Jordan and sponsored by the US tried to over throw the Hamas government in Gaza. They failed and Hamas unilaterally took control. Fatah responded by appointing their members to government positions (in effect setting up two governments).
Israel responded with a siege on the Gaza strip (controlling all the borders, sea and air space) and limiting vital supplies. Israel claims that Hamas is a terrorist organisation and is not a negotiating partner. Members of parliament who are Hamas members are in Israeli jails with no charges. It prefers to work with Abbas (the president and member of Fatah). Fatah controls the West Bank. Palestinians in the West Bank are not able to protest in support of Hamas. The West Bank still sees the building of the Israeli separation wall, continuing settlements, incursions and check points.
The people of Gaza and their democratically elected government are now under bombardment. The argument for Israel based on democracy fails because the Palestinians have also elected a government which is not recognised. The argument for Israel based on its fight against terrorism in the region fails because it used terror to establish itself and arguably the actions being committed against the Palestinians could be described as terror and even genocide. In Israel your rights are determined by your race. Arabs within Israel lack the same rights as Jews (recently two Arab parties were prevented from running in the upcoming elections for expressing opposition to the Gaza attacks) and outside of it.
Israel is an attempt for the hardcore Christians to witness "the second coming of christ". One must wonder whether all the violence and corruption is worth it
That's why it's so hard to talk sense into these damn evangelicals. You tell them what Israel has done/is doing and all they can do is say 'it's in the Bible' like a zombie.
for one the American government supplied israelis (they dont deserve to be capitalized) with money and weapons. This all started because America wanted someone to be Allies with in the Middle East. israel would be nothing without the british and america and Hamas is just another cover up for bombing children and innocent people. Hamas is a political party which was elected into government dont believe what the media has to say. israel is one of the reasons why were in a economic crises and its the reason for 9/11. Palestinians were there before the isrealies.
This is an outright lie. In "fact," there has been no genocide committed by the Israelis in 1948 or any other time over the past 60 years. However, if left without their defences, the Arabs, including the so-called "Palestinians" would have murdered every last Israeli man, woman and child. The Arabs have been commiting limited genocide against Israel and the world turns its head the other way.
A lie?? The only lie here is that Israel is helpless, weak, blah blah blah. THAT is a lie. Israel DID commit genocide against the Palestinians. Where do you get your information? Do you read books? Scholarly journals? Here is your accurate information:
"Israel's backers also portray it as a country that has sought peace at every turn and shown great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. Yet on the ground, Israel's record is not distinguishable from that of its opponents. Ben-Gurion acknowledged that the early Zionists were far from benevolent toward the Palestinian Arabs, who resisted their encroachments--which is hardly surprising, given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab land. In the same way, the creation of Israel in 1947-1948 involved acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews, and Israel's subsequent conduct has often been brutal, belying any claim to moral superiority. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2,700 and 5,000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed. The IDF murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war in both the 1956 and 1967 wars, while in 1967 it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly conquered West Bank and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights."
Mearsheimer and Walt, The Israel Lobby. IN Domestic Sources of Foreign Policy
You still think that is a lie? Of course you do, because any evidence that contradicts your fallacious beliefs is ignored and considered untrue.
You should try to seek out the true reality, not what people feed you.
I think that the Arabs and Israel should agree to one last, all out war. Winner takes all. No holds barred. If one side claims that the other side has an unfair advantage, then they should STFU and declare the other side victorious. If they refuse to STFU and declare the other side victorious, then the all out war, winner takes all, no holds barred should proceed as planned.
Declaring the other side victorious is not so bad.
1. You get to live to fight another day, like when the advantage is in your favor.
2. You can become friendly with the victor. Learn the rules and figure a way around the rules. Then build casinos and enrich your people.
I really don't care about the outcome. I'm just sick and tired of hearing about the shit that goes on over there. I thus try to avoid reading about it. I made an exception today ;)
Your source of information if really corrupt. Take a moment and realize the real propaganda is from the Palestinians. This has been proved over and over again. (Just google pallywood) where as a liberal democracy when ever (and it does happen INFREQUENTLY) a Israeli politician or hot head makes a false statement, the Israeli's own media calls them out on it. No such correction occurs in the the arab media. To make it harder, most western media is not doing proper due diligence (for a verity of nasty reasons) on the arab reporting giving the false impressions that propaganda coming from the Palestinians has the same or higher value and weight as the true news form the Israeli side.
My source of information is not corrupt, my sources are multitudes of well-known scholarly journals and well-documented instances.
Okay I googled Pallywood. So what? I don't claim this doesn't happen, but how does this "prove over and over again" that the Israeli's don't commit crimes against the Palestinians? It doesn't. It just shows that you cannot believe everything you see or hear, which is why you have to do real research to find the truth. That's what I do.
Are you saying that two wrongs make a right? Do you deny that terrorists are committing atrocities against Israel and that only Israel is committing atrocities? Wouldn't Israel stop attacking the Palestinians if the Palestinians stopped attacking Israel?
The reason we hear such horror stories being committed by both sides is because there's no clear winner as of yet. Once one side surrenders, the atrocities will end.
I am not trying to justify the actions of Hamas and other militant groups, because they are doing the same thing to innocent Israeli women and children as Israel is doing to innocent Palestinian women and children. But the problem here is that Palestinians cannot stop attacking Israel, because of Israel's policies toward them, which include treating them as second class citizens and denying them the ability to find good jobs, etcetera. Most of all, it is because even when Israel says it is for peace, it turns around and builds more settlements, advancing even further into Palestinian territory on their quest for the entire "Holy Land". So, even as Israel tries to say that they are only reacting to Palestinian violence, which under other circumstances may be a legitimate claim, they have actually never stopped their Zionist, ideological quest. In the end, the only way to separate right from wrong is to look at what happened in the first place, which is the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Arabs from their own land in order to make way for a Jewish state which was illegally (under international law) supported by the United States, and is still being supported through the extremely influential Israel Lobby.
I don't hate Jews. I just hate those radical Jews who are so blinded by ideology and nationalism that they do not see the reality of what has happened since 1948 and even before then.
Would you care to provide solid, indisputable proof of ethnic cleansing before making claims of genocide? Simply put, in 1947 the United Nations passed resolution 181 which partitioned the former British mandate of Palestine in such a way as to provide Jewish immigrants and Arab Palestinians land that fit their needs. Jerusalem was to be controlled by both parties. The Palestinians rejected the plan set forth by the UN and instead enlisted neighboring Arab states of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordon to expel the Jewish people form Israel. During this time Palestinians fled their homes as the Israeli government repelled foreign invaders. These refugees have refused to recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli claim to a sovereign state and have escalated the conflict to literally explosive levels.
In all this, the only acts of attempted ethnic cleansing have been performed by Arabs invading Palestine. That's not to say that Israel does not share some blame for the conflict. As I said I would like to see some real, primary source that supports your claims.
Would you care to provide solid, indisputable proof that ethnic cleansing did NOT take place? Have you ever heard of Deir Yassin?
"The Palestinians rejected the plan set forth by the UN and instead enlisted neighboring Arab states of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordon to expel the Jewish people form Israel"
Would you do the same if someone came to YOUR house and told you to get out? Oh right, I forgot, that never happened to the Palestinians, just like the Holocaust never happened to the Jews, right?
I am not claiming the Holocaust didn't happen so before you accuse me of something outrageous like that, take a minute to think about what I meant by saying that.
And who told you it was Palestinian Jews who fled Palestine?? It was Palestinian Muslims, the ones who had occupied the land since the Romans ousted the Jews in the first place.
You cannot base the 'claim to a sovereign state' on what happened, because what happened was that the Jews came and TOOK the land from the Palestinians.
Under the British mandate Arabs and Jews both inhabited the same land. This was determined to be a dangerous situation and so when it was decided that an Israeli state would be established and the land was partitioned equitably. Rather than attempt to renegotiate the situation the Arabs chose to try and forcibly evict the Jews. I mistyped when I said Jews I did not mean to say that. Most of the refugees fled under the behest of the invading Arab armies before the fighting even started.
Both sides bear blame for the conflict but the Palestinians have been unreasonable in their claims that the Israelis do not have as much a right to a sovereign state as they do. Several times the both sides have been brought to the table to try and determine a peaceful solution and it is invariably the Arabs that refuse to compromise.
And once more, I'm going to need proof if I'm even going to begin to reconsider my position.
Could the fact that you are Muslim be influencing your POV just a little bit? You do understand that the Palestinians have been committing much worse crimes ever since the Israelites first established the Jewish state right? So I don't understand why you are trying to put false accusations down on the Israelies.
Actually, I was raised as a Catholic, and my parents are still "practicing" Christians. I converted last year because I married a Muslim, but I have been studying the history of the conflict far longer than I have even known my husband.
Could you elaborate a little on what you mean by "the Palestinians have been committing much worse crimes ever since the Israelites first established the Jewish state"?
Also, I am not falsely accusing Israelis of anything. I am sympathetic to their history, but in no way does that justify what they did and are still doing to the Palestinians.
Ok, I have no problem rebutting your argument, but before I go super Jew on you, may I ask what the point of this debate is and why you are against Israel so much?
The point of this debate is to try to present a viewpoint that is largely ignored, shunned, and censored in America.
I am against Israel because the Israelis stole land and homes from the Palestinians, one reason being that it was their ancient homeland. Okay, so what? How many centuries ago was that? Furthermore, not only did they expel Palestinians from their own homes, they KEEP DOING IT!!! Why?? And please don't try to use the argument 'they are doing it because the Palestinians keep attacking them' because that line of reasoning doesn't work. Why can't people admit that it was the Israelis in the first place that brutally forced innocent people from their homeland? I am going to bed now. 'Night
PS. Are you Jewish? If you are, why do you find it acceptable that your own people did these things in 1947-48? Why was it sooooo necessary for the Jewish people to live where they now do? Does your religion justify what was done (and I repeat, is STILL being done) to the Palestinians??
I too have always had problem with Israel, not Jews, but Israel itself. Why oh why did any country, especially the USA, fight so hard for an Israeli State when they knew they would displace the "Palestinians?" Could it have been guilt? Could it have been strategic? Could it have been an attempt at humanity? I don't believe for one second that any country involved in the creation of this state cares a flip-flop about the people there. They've been at war since its creation and until they give the Palestinians what is rightfully theirs it will go on and on. What was so urgent and necessary about this piece of earth that so much tragedy must be tolerated because of it? I've just never understood it no matter how much I have read about it or how sympathetic I may be to their cause.
The reason the USA fought so hard then and is still fighting so hard is because of the Israel lobby, which is the second most influential interest group in the country, even bigger than the NRA. Only the AARP is bigger. This is why USA turns a blind eye whenever their precious "ally" sells our secrets to China or keeps building settlements when it "promised" it would stop.
In fact, the Israel lobby is so influential, resourceful, well-connected and determined that they are like a giant MAFIA, tirelessly quieting any sort of discussion that hints to the truth about Israel. This is why so many Americans think it is outrageous and hateful to cast Israel in a bad light: they are simply brainwashed by pro-Israel fanatics to the point that they don't even live in reality anymore. On my campus the typical student is pro-ISrael simply because they don't know any better, they are fed lies and rumors and have no idea about the history. They have never heard of Deir Yassin (the site of horrible acts committed by Zionists, such as stomping on the heads of Palestinian babies (I smell a passionate rebuttal here but its f*ing TRUE and Israelis and Jews KNOW it so don't listen to the lies) and raping Palestinian women etcetera etcetera. The only thing the typical college student knows is that Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and everyone else is terrorizing this "innocent and helpless" little country. Pretty sad when the fact of reality is that a functioning democracy requires people to actually know facts and history. That is why we enjoy an utterly dysfunctional democracy.
did you actually say the NRA is one of the most influential lobbies?
When it comes to keeping our right to bear arms, the Constitutionalists of America (which are most) are keeping that right alive. The NRA hardly needs to do anything.
I am against Israel because the Israelis stole land and homes from the Palestinians, one reason being that it was their ancient homeland.
And what civilization has not done that? Throught all of history civilizations have been claiming land as there own and either expelling its inhabitants from it or enslaving them. Are you not equally against spain or portugal for doing that to the Aztec and Inca? Are you not equally against Mongolia for doing that to the Chinese during the Hun Dynasty? What specific reason is it that you point out Israel over all of these other civilizations that, and using your own argument, "KEEP DOING IT!!!"
For instance, the ancient middle american culture is pretty much lost to descendents of the native peoples, replaced by Spanish and Portuguese customs. That, in a way, is a continual expulsion of the ancient middle americans all on its own. Is it not?
And please don't try to use the argument 'they are doing it because the Palestinians keep attacking them' because that line of reasoning doesn't work.
I was never even going to suggest that. ;) Israel has right to defend itself from hostile Palistinians. There are much better and less violent ways to solve issues between Israel and Palistine, and neither group is really striving that hard towards it. However saying that Israel keeps bullying Palistine in reguards to a militia is no good reason to be against Israel.
Why can't people admit that it was the Israelis in the first place that brutally forced innocent people from their homeland?
Brutally? May I ask how brutally one can be after 40 years exile in a desert? With no established militia? No established anything for that matter. Your choice of words are quite poor my friend. ;) So wouldn't you agree that the Jewish people got lucky in that "brutal" encounter if they were able to conquer and expell the natives of that land?
Are you Jewish? If you are, why do you find it acceptable that your own people did these things in 1947-48? Why was it sooooo necessary for the Jewish people to live where they now do? Does your religion justify what was done (and I repeat, is STILL being done) to the Palestinians??
Yes, I am Jewish, however I try to be as neutral as possible, but seing as how much of what I hear is one sided towards Israel, even from Muslims, Christians, Catholics, and all other religions, I never really heard your point of view before. And I am unaware as to what occured in 1947-1948, other than the fact that the Jewish faith was still recovering from the catastophic events of World War 2 involving the "cleansing" of the world. And it is necessary for us to have this land because it holds much historical significance for our culture. It is where many of our important ancestors are burried. And it is also where G-d was prophesized to open up the earth to swallow the MOSQUE that was built on holy Jewish land!
Do you not agree that instead of war there should be more talk of peace? Instead of always assuming one party is right, both parties should meet at a middle ground? I feel like a lot of what Israel is doing right now is a tad bit unnecessary, however I also feel that way towards what the Palestinians are doing. If you want peace, then don't accuse, rather accept and move on.
However I also feel like there is another hidden reason why you are against Israel that you won't tell me, because like I said at the beginning of this argument, people steal things. It is in the human nature to expand and conquer. In fact, if you want to look at it from a religious aspect, the Muslims did more of that than any other civilization/culture/religious group in the world in reguards to expelling native cultures. (HINT: The mosque built on holy Israeli ground) So once again (or maybe for the first time?) I say: you're own religious beliefs are clouding your perception on what is historically correct.
And as a little bit of advice, going back as far as 1947 won't be very good evidence to support your claim that people from thousands of years ago are in the wrong.
BREAKING NEWS: There is such a thing called "international law" now. That means that in 1948, ass kissers like the U.S. were not supposed to help Jews kill Muslims just because the Jews wanted their own country.
Israel has right to defend itself from hostile Palestinians
I agree. If I decided I wanted someone's house and forced them to leave, I would stock up on grenades so that they cannot come back or even find justice. I totally see where you are coming from.
May I ask how brutally one can be after 40 years exile in a desert?
What the hell are you talking about?
So wouldn't you agree that the Jewish people got lucky in that "brutal" encounter if they were able to conquer and expell the natives of that land?
Sorry, but it is your own choice of words that are poor. "Conquer?" In 1948? With the help of the international community? Why are you even defending what the Jews did?
And I am unaware as to what occured in 1947-1948, other than the fact that the Jewish faith was still recovering from the catastophic events of World War 2 involving the "cleansing" of the world
You should seriously go find out. Of course the Holocaust was a horrible chapter in humanity, and believe it or not I am not a Holocaust denier. I just don't think events gave Jews (or should give anyone else) the right to do what they did to the Palestinians. Go read a book about Deir Yassin.
'
And it is necessary for us to have this land because it holds much historical significance for our culture
So necessary that the Jews would do anything to get it, even raping women and stomping on the heads of Palestinian babies?
Do you not agree that instead of war there should be more talk of peace?
Absolutely. But why can't Israel take the first step and stop building settlements??????
It is in the human nature to expand and conquer. In fact, if you want to look at it from a religious aspect, the Muslims did more of that than any other civilization/culture/religious group in the world in regards to expelling native cultures
True! But people who do that in contemporary times don't get their "country" recognized by ass kissers like the United States!!!
The mosque built on holy Israeli ground
When? Which mosque are you talking about?
And as a little bit of advice, going back as far as 1947 won't be very good evidence to support your claim that people from thousands of years ago are in the wrong.
This doesn't make sense. I said it is wrong for Jews to come back after centuries of "Israel" not being their homeland and steal it from those who have lived there for centuries.
BREAKING NEWS: There is such a thing called "international law" now. That means that in 1948, ass kissers like the U.S. were not supposed to help Jews kill Muslims just because the Jews wanted their own country.
So if the Hebrews in Israel can not justify their actions to become a country by exiling the one force who had been attempting to wipe them from middle-eastern Europe since they moved there then how can the Muslims justify their attempts at wiping them from that area? It seems to me like you Muslims are hypocrits personally. You say you are mad because the Hebrews took your land, and so instead of agreeing on a middle-ground compromize you would rather blow them off the face of the world. But look at how well that's worked out for you so far. (;
I agree. If I decided I wanted someone's house and forced them to leave, I would stock up on grenades so that they cannot come back or even find justice. I totally see where you are coming from.
Justice. I like that word. It was very brave of you to use that word. Justice. Heh. What justice is there in killing innocent lives? You may not be aware of this, but your people take Israel children as hostage. WHAT JUSTICE IS THERE IN RISKING A CHILD'S LIFE OVER A STUPID PLOT OF LAND?! That is just underhanded and that alone is enough reason for Israel to kick the Palestinians away from their land.
What the hell are you talking about?
You said "Why can't people admit that it was the Israelis in the first place that brutally forced innocent people from their homeland?" So my argument makes perfect sense my friend. In fact it makes so much sense that alone it can take down all of your petty rebuttals alone. (;
Sorry, but it is your own choice of words that are poor. "Conquer?" In 1948? With the help of the international community? Why are you even defending what the Jews did?
No no no! I am referring to the first encounter back in "biblical times" when they Hebrews first entered the Jewish state of Israel after 40 years of exile in the desert after escaping from Egypt.
So necessary that the Jews would do anything to get it, even raping women and stomping on the heads of Palestinian babies?
You have run out of logical arguments my friend! Now you are resorting to propaganda rumors which are totally untrue! In fact it is the Palistinians who kidnap Israeli children as "leverage" over the government. And you know what that led to don't you? We went in and kidnapped all of your leaders to get back our children. So who is stooping low now? Your propaganda is straight lies and anyone with half a brain knows that.
This doesn't make sense. I said it is wrong for Jews to come back after centuries of "Israel" not being their homeland and steal it from those who have lived there for centuries.
Your people expelled us and along with the Catholic church persecuted against us. Otherwise it would have been our homeland. Don't try to cover up your people throwing the first punch by only telling what Israel did in retalliation!
Where did you go? You were on 2 days ago, I posted my last argument 2 days ago. You shoulda been able to reply to it. What's wrong? Were you swallowed up by your own hate?
I'm sorry but I have been very busy with school and extra-curricular activities since it was the last week before the winter break so I did not have time to post my rebuttal to your silly argument.
Whatever happened in the past might not even be true. I am not in favor of Isreal or Plaestine because I feel this is totallyl wrong..!!! Isreal should still stop attaking Palestine