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Being proud and apologetic are not mutually exclusive. "Only Sith and Republicans think in terms of black and white." - Family Guy I think.
The USA has a lot to be proud of. One of the highest living standards, defeating nazi's, an unprecedented amount of freedom when this country was originated, and even more today, we give more to impoverished countries than every other country in the world combined, we've invented most of the coolest stuff in the world from cars to airplanes to electricity to the telephone to the internet, we have 50 states, a hundred accents, every religion known to man, every race, creed, and social background and yet have only had one civil war in our entire history.
I could go on and on. There are over 400 billionaires and about half of them came from the middle class or lower. No other country can boast such upward mobility. Of the top ten schools in the world, we have 6 or 7 (and England the rest). Anyone not proud to be an American has little understanding of what the world was like prior to democracy first taking hold.
But many countries have many things to be proud of. It's not a competition. An American should be able to both be proud of America, and appreciate other countries - and of course admonish countries which do not empower it's people.
At the same time, that does not mean one cannot also be apologetic for things like slavery, internment camps, our homeless rate, one of the highest prison rates, a currently dwindling middle class, knee-jerk racist reactions to terrorism and illegal immigration, one of the worst healthcare systems in the Western world.
As a whole one is justified in being quite proud of America. However, not at the same time apologizing is counter productive. When we start ignoring our faults we more easily repeat them, and continue them.
Ok I'm a liberal (yeah, I said that. I'm sure I'll hear from some Tea Partiers later) so my feelings on the subject of patriotism are pretty strong, particularly, the accusation that, because I'm a liberal, I'm somehow less patriotic. One of the most common misconceptions about liberals is that we are not proud of our country and we want to model it after Europe. his is far from true for most of us. At the same time, when I get hate mail from conservatives, they always make a point to say how great America is, and they're absolutely right about that. So what separates liberals from conservatives as far as national pride goes? Conservatives (from whom most of the patriotic boasting comes) prefer to tell the world what they can learn from America. Liberals, on the other hand, prefer to tell our fellow Americans what they can learn from the rest of the world. As America has moved further to the right lately, many conservatives seem to think it wrong for her citizens, to criticize her. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been called a traitor, a communist, or a socialist, or some other epithet because of my views on universal healthcare, gun control, and workers' rights (principles that every other developed nation in the world have found a way to embrace). My point is, we as a people need to understand that, while America is a free nation, our freedom is not unparalleled. While we have a generally good healthcare system, it is not nearly as good as in some other countries. And if it can be done in Europe and Canada, it can certainly be done in America, the richest most powerful country on earth. And the lack of progress to this challenge is why liberals tend to be far more critical of America, than conservatives. It's not a lack of patriotism; in fact, it's quite the opposite. It's a belief that we, Americans, can make our country an even better place to live. We do have a lot to be proud of, yes. But we still have a lot to learn.
I don't think that liberals are less patriotic, and I am a conservative. I do think that liberals see things form a different set of presuppositions that conservatives don't understand and so it is hard for us to understand how you could fell pride in this great country of ours while holding the positions that, generally speaking, liberals do.
Okay, that said, our freedom is, or at least was, unparalleled for the greater part of two centuries. I think that the reason people don't seem to realize this is because most people who live here don't exercise and/or don't value all the freedoms that we enjoy in the United States of America. Case and point would be gun ownership. Many don't like the fact that you can own a firearm in the United States, and many more than that, don't own a gun. This freedom alone, separates us from most of the world.
As for health care, we have THE BEST health care in the world. We lead the world in medical innovation. That said, it is also the most expensive in the world. A problem that could be made not as severe with an injection of the free market and Medicare reform. Please don't think I am being simplistic here. The explanations as to why those two things would help could fill volumes. When people start comparing Canadian or European health care to American health care the only thing you gain is less expensive. If we want to improve the health care industry in the United States lets look at solving some of the problems in our system before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
As for criticizing, it seems like (I said 'seems like') liberals criticize America for what is wrong with her, where as conservatives criticize what is wrong with America and love her for the freedom she provides. There is a difference.
Where do i begin with this almighty load of crap. The USA has alot more to be ashamed of than to be proud of my friend.
"One of the highest living standards"
Yes you have one the highest living standards, you also have more inequality than most countries who barely have 1% of your wealth.1% of your population controls 50% of your wealth. Ratiobnalize that one, actually dont.
"defeating nazi's"
I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but the cherished belief that America defeated the Nazis couldnt be more wrong. I hate when i hear that bullshit, its just not true. Any serious historian worth his salt (non American historian of course) will tell you the Red Army (i.e. Russia) were largely resposible for the fall of the Nazi's. They sacrificed 20million over the course of the second world war, they re-took Stalingrad which was the turning pt. in the war when for the first time the Nazis weere driven back. I could continue but you get the idea, fucks sake Britain did more than ye.
"we give more to impoverished countries than every other country in the world combined"
I'm sorry this should be in reverse shoudlnt it. How do you think you acquired such wealth. Your corporations and government have taken more from impoverished countries than anyone. The aid you send is purely symbolic, it doesnt alleviate any of the suffering. I dont expect you to beleif me. Why dont you try lookin into the dealings of the IMF and world bank, two predominantly American Institutions. See what they've done to impoverished countries.
I'm just gona leave at that if you respond ill continue telling you why what you say is wrong and why "At the same time, that does not mean one cannot also be apologetic for things like slavery, internment camps, our homeless rate, one of the highest prison rates, a currently dwindling middle class, knee-jerk racist reactions to terrorism and illegal immigration, one of the worst healthcare systems in the Western world" are just the tip of the ice berg.
I believe the US is a standard for democracy across the globe. Starting from a colony going to a superpower in less than 200 years is an accomplishment. I know some of the past is bloody and unfair but still believe this nation is a force for good.
Your deluded belief that the US is a force for good doesnt exist outside your country. What does that tell you. You do export democracy but you see its your special unique brand of democracy which basically makes a mockerey of the real meaning of the. Look into it, look at teh regimes propped up by the cia and goevernment in South America, Middle East, Asia, look at how at the kind of democracy that your government has forced on people, i cannot eve begin to tell you how wrong you are, my friend.
You can eithert dismiss this as propaganda as its counter to what you hear on your tv screen, by the way your media is completely corrupt and serves big business (as does your government) but again you can dismiss that as propaganda as well OR you can look into what im saying, check it out for yourself with credible sources of info. (that basically rules out any major US meida outlet)
The US station democracy now is a very station (just a suggestion)
Ditto? You mean you too wish that you were not an American? Deep down I always had the feeling the far right felt this way, it is why they are trying to constantly change the constitution while spewing how "constitutional" they are.
And I'm not worried about you. It's just embarassing when a US citizen spews mindless talking points for convention's sake, instead of putting thought into a response. You become defensive on the subject. Like you need to out-patriot everyone else. However, what makes America great is questioning our own actions. If everyone went along like yourself, assuming everything America ever did must be correct by virtue of it being American, we would still have slaves, still have child labor, still have internment camps, etc etc.
So, I'm not worried about you, I'm embarassed that one lucky enough as yourself to be a citizen of this nation, would so take it for granted.
Hence, I wish you weren't an American, then maybe you'd learn something of what it is to be American.
" putting thought into a response"- Pure elistist response, next comes the twisting of conservatism as approving everything America has ever done. Right from the liberal template. Please stay on subject.
Ditto? You mean you too wish that you were not an American?
When I said "ditto", I was simply copying the phrase you spoke, and redirected it at you, not agreeing with it.
Deep down I always had the feeling the far right felt this way
When did I ever say I was on the far right side of the political spectrum? I am on the right, but not the far right.
I'm not worried about you
If not me then who? You feel it your duty to protect others from me, because I am a simple home-lovin' American.
And when did I say everything America ever did was correct? I didn't. You should stop putting words in my mouth.
Hence, fuck off. You of all people trying to tell me what it means to be American. I am willing to defend this nation, abide by the Constitution, and do my civic duty.
It is in our nature to be self-aggrandizing, though not necessarily individually. More often it manifests itself at the group level, in this case the national level. It is right that we should think ourselves to be the best, so long as we always strive to be better. To apologize is to be self-debasing and makes on seem weak to outsiders. If we were to be apologetic, other nations would simply relish in the opportunity to blame their misfortunes on us.
America is great... but not as great as the UK where we can choose not to work and earn around the same as a full time employee from the benefits we receive. Only thing wrong with the UK is immigration and the Scottish who are too stupid to run their own country.
UK is great because you can not work and make the same as someone working? Great for you you lazy selfish person. What about the guy working paying his way and your way. What train of thought makes that great. Please dont let America become this way.
Understanding the history and flaws of our country is important. Being apologetic for what our predecessors have done is silly and futile. As long as we are the most clearly innovative and most principle-based country, what reason do we have to not be proud? Btw, we live in a democratic republic. Not a democracy.
As long as we are the most clearly innovative and most principle-based country, what reason do we have to not be proud?
Innovative? Perhaps.
Most principle-based? Absolutely not. During the Cold war the USA had nuclear warheads in Turkey pointed at Russia. So the Russians decided they'd send warheads to Cuba pointed at the United States. Of course the United States wouldn't have any of this so they cried out to the globe like a bully who'd been beaten up and almost caused a devastating war.
What of your many (if any) principles does this display?
I dont consdier any country great i think the whole idea is ridiulous, its just nationlism. why dont try thinkin in terms of worldism. Some societies and ways of living are better than others though but im not gona go into. I think you can suspect i dont have the American lifestyle on top of that list i.e. live as wastefully as possible, be ignorant, think your government can do no wrong when in reality they are fuckin you and everyone else right in the ass, live in a big house, drive a big car, have a wife with big fake tits, live a big piontless life (if you can call it that), eat more than you should need in 30 lifetimes, be egotistical and materialist in every way possible, ........etc, etc.
As the only country in history that has destroyed dictatorships like Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Saddam Hussein's Iraq and then rebuilt the nations as democratic nations rather than conquering, the US is the greatest nation on Earth.
As a nation, we are responsible for the greatest number if liberations of dictatorships around the world. Many policies that have been enacted in recent years and even decades detract from American exceptionalism, but these actions differ from our fundamentals, the principles of the Constitution and a dedicated populace which have contributed to and will continue to contribute to American greatness.
1. We have the greatest culture, the most culture, and the most varied culture.
2. We have the greatest economy,( even though there is a recession).
3. Probably the highest standard of living given to so many people. (yes, Norway is ahead but it does not house 350,000,000 people).
4. The largest drive for immigration, ( our country is so great there are people literally dying to get in).
5. Once again our culture can be seen anywhere except for 2 or 3 nations where it is banned, but i doubt that the elite can avoid using our technology aka the internet, movies, video games, ect....
6.We dominate 3 major world sports like boxing, basketball, baseball! go Heat!
7. We aid every nation in need after a natural disaster.
8. The champions of free markets, ( although the asshole democrats and liberals want to turn us into a socialist scumbag state that depends on the government too much).
9. We are the safeguards of Human rights and Freedom and the first to truly enforce it and not just preach it.
10. People who are generally hard working, and want to find the AMERICAN DREAM!
12. We are 100% LOYAL and ready to die for our country, or make someone die for theirs if need be.
13. Last but not least we are probably the only nation that is BLESSED BY GOD!
BONUS: We also have the most kick ass military the world has ever seen! OORAH!!!!!
It's one of the most fearful nations in the world. Scared of the government, terrorists, immigrants, canadians, blacks, mexicans, republicans, democrats, liberals, neighbours even family.
The government (bankrolled by corporations) has you believe all this shit so that they can confuse you into the direction they want you to go. You're sheep. You just don't know it.
Absolutely and not only do I believe it, I am living it. I have the freedom to pursue millions if I want it,speak what I want to speak,think what I want to think. There are countries where women can't be seen with another man that is not her husband or relative or be killed and all you do is bitch about the USA. There are countries where if you do not believe in a certain religion, or goverment you are imprisoned or killed and all you do is bitch about America.There are countries where you cannot invest and become a millionaire if you so choose and all you do is bitch about America. There are countries you cannot leave your city without a passport and all you do is bitch about America. Fearful??????? You haven't seen fear.
You are fearful because you buy the media's bull. I am thankful I live here.
I bought the media's bull? Your WHOLE POST just proved you did.
Yes America isn't the shitest country. Yes you can walk around in America freely and invest money and not worry about the government killing you with the click of it's fingers (many exceptions to this case actually) but you can do that in hundreds of other countries. Just cause America isn't the worst.. doesn't mean it's the best. Get your thumb out of your ass. America isn't the only country where people can practice their own religion, politics etc.
" America isn't the only country where people can practice their own religion, politics etc." but it is the only country with the American dream that so many leave their own country for. They die coming here because it is the greatest. It is so great that millions do not want to stand in line to get here, they will chance death and/or imprisonment for a chance to come here.
Actually America isn't the only country everyone tries to migrate to. It also doesn't mean that USA is the greatest country. It might be great for 100 years but it's already sliding downhill. Now thousands of people are beginning to migrate to China and India and Brazil. You don't look at one small time frame and 1 small reason to decide whether or not a country is great. You look at the whole of its history. USA has historically been weak, bloodthirsty, lack of liberty and freedom etc. Maybe for a period of 50 years it was on its way to becoming a country somebody could look back in the future and call great but it never made it.
Yes our politicans are not something to be proud of but if you look at our history when america needed he citizens most they took the challenge and fought to keep our country free look at the american revolution we fought for our freedom and won it look at world war two tons of young men stepped up to fight for demecracy and look at the war on terror while the reasons our goverment may not be right look at all those who answered the call to fight for demecracy
I completely agree, the American people are living a delusion.They really beleive they are a force for good in this world, nothing could be further from the truth, but try telling them.
"they just threaten everyone with nukes."- who is everyone? Japan suddenly accounts for everyone? Not only did we bomb them over 60 years ago, but that was the first and last time that any country used an atomic bomb on another. It is idiotic to say that the United States threatens "everyone" with nuclear weapons and then have one example that occurred over 6 decades ago for support. So, good job you're an idiot.
We threatened use in the Korean War. That's not talked about often. What is deterrence but a threat anyway? You have to understand that sleeping with a gun under your pillow is okay, but walking out the door with it and waving it around the neighborhood is not nice.
The Korean War was still almost sixty years ago. Two examples with that distance of time away from the present is no where near enough to say that just we threaten everyone with nukes.
"walking out the door with it and waving it around the neighborhood is not nice."- in this case, it has been more like walking out in public with the gun concealed. The public would only know that you have it because you have shot someone before.
Not quite. It's well-known the kind of firepower the US is packing, hell we used to release numbers every once in a while just to remind everyone of it.
"It's well-known the kind of firepower the US is packing"- that does not mean that we threaten every other country with our nuclear weapons on every instance that we threaten them.
"hell we used to release numbers every once in a while just to remind everyone of it."- we were not reminding "everyone" of it. You may not remember, but the United States used to be in an arms race with the Soviet Union. We released numbers for them, not for everyone else.
Actually, had we dropped it under the table to them directly, that would have been threatening. No, those numbers were generated indirectly and to the world stage. Throughout a lot of the Arms Race, we weren't on good speaking terms with the Soviet Union.
had we dropped it under the table to them directly, that would have been threatening
That's ridiculous logic. Since the US did not send them the information directly, it could not be considered a threat? Of course it was a threat; it was their greatest enemy releasing the numbers of how many nukes they had.
"The Korean War was still almost sixty years ago. Two examples with that distance of time away from the present is no where near enough to say that just we threaten everyone with nukes."
well your government isn't exactly getting rid of them
""walking out the door with it and waving it around the neighborhood is not nice."- in this case, it has been more like walking out in public with the gun concealed. The public would only know that you have it because you have shot someone before."
if you knew someone had a gun and they had just shot someone wouldn't you think they'ld be prepared to shoot you
"well your government isn't exactly getting rid of them"- you really do not understand a lot about the world. The US is reducing its number of nuclear weapons, but can not eliminate all of them because other countries possess nuclear weapons as well. Does this mean that we are threatening them with our nukes? Absolutely not. We are simply making sure that in the case where a nuclear war could occur, we are prepared.
"if you knew someone had a gun and they had just shot someone wouldn't you think they'ld be prepared to shoot you"- just shot someone? It was over sixty years ago. Why do I have to keep reminding you of this?
"you really do not understand a lot about the world. The US is reducing its number of nuclear weapons, but can not eliminate all of them because other countries possess nuclear weapons as well. Does this mean that we are threatening them with our nukes? Absolutely not. We are simply making sure that in the case where a nuclear war could occur, we are prepared."
If you both have a knife to each others neck its still a threat. what you're saying is that you're arming against a hypothetical WWIII this is exactly the kind of thing that triggerred WWI.
"if you knew someone had a gun and they had just shot someone wouldn't you think they'ld be prepared to shoot you"- just shot someone? It was over sixty years ago. Why do I have to keep reminding you of this?"
Quite a few people on the world today were alive 60 years ago.
another U.S citizen who beleives that they are the only country in the world that matters.
"Japan suddenly accounts for everyone?Not only did we bomb them over 60 years ago, but that was the first and last time that any country used an atomic bomb on another. "
if you see someone get shot you don't suddenly yell at the guy with the gun.
also 60 years is a long time to a country.(of course some U.S citizens don't beleive this because their country is really young)
"It is idiotic to say that the United States threatens "everyone" with nuclear weapons and then have one example that occurred over 6 decades ago for support. "
the bombing of japan was a show of power, you don't honestly think that when a country gets hit by a superbomb, no-one bothers to notice.
"another U.S citizen who beleives that they are the only country in the world that matters."- that is absolutely not what I meant, but it was no surprise that you misinterpreted what I said.
"if you see someone get shot you don't suddenly yell at the guy with the gun."- that is a terrible generalization. Also, I was not stating that people now blame the US after such a long time, but stating that using one event that took place over sixty years ago is not grounds for stating that the US threatens "everyone" with nukes.
"also 60 years is a long time to a country."- yes......
"the bombing of japan was a show of power, you don't honestly think that when a country gets hit by a superbomb, no-one bothers to notice."- yes it was a show of power. It is wrong, however, to say that the United States threatens "everyone" with nukes after it has only used them on a single country. Under your logic, if a nuclear power threatens another country, it must be threatening that country with its nuclear weapons. This view is ridiculous.
"says the idiot"- wow it takes some serious brain power to come up with that one, but it definitely takes more courage to actually say it to somebody.
"that is absolutely not what I meant, but it was no surprise that you misinterpreted what I said."
And in the art of debating you must make exact your intentions and meanings otherwise your opponents will manipulate this to their advantage.
"that is a terrible generalization. Also, I was not stating that people now blame the US after such a long time, but stating that using one event that took place over sixty years ago is not grounds for stating that the US threatens "everyone" with nukes."
You are now repeating what I have already disputed.
"yes......"
why do you bother typing pointless statements like that.
"yes it was a show of power. It is wrong, however, to say that the United States threatens "everyone" with nukes after it has only used them on a single country. Under your logic, if a nuclear power threatens another country, it must be threatening that country with its nuclear weapons. This view is ridiculous."
It didnt "threaten" it nuked, and it shows what will happen to any country that dares touches one of the U.S's little harbours.Therefore a show of power.
"wow it takes some serious brain power to come up with that one, but it definitely takes more courage to actually say it to somebody."
I don't need you opinion on my insults, you should know that it's a bad thing and accept it.
And in the art of debating you must make exact your intentions and meanings
You said that the United States "threatens everyone" with nukes. I asked "who is everyone", obviously a question on which countries the US threatens. You, being the smartest person in the world, came to some strange, disconnected conclusion that I am an American who believes the US is "the only country in the world that matters." I was explicit and exact in my question, your lack of intelligence led you to a meaning that was completely irrelevant to what I was talking about.
otherwise your opponents will manipulate this to their advantage.
lol, in what way did you use your confusion to your advantage? What do you think you gained from that?
You are now repeating what I have already disputed.
First, you are incapable of disputing that fact. Second, you confused yourself once again and I was forced to repeat what I said in the hope that you would interpret it correctly. Unfortunately, you do not learn from your mistakes.
why do you bother typing pointless statements like that.
I could say the same thing about any argument that you have ever posted.
It didnt "threaten" it nuked
Are you suggesting that the US nuked "everyone" ?
it shows what will happen to any country that dares touches one of the U.S's little harbours
Nice try down-playing that. If one country attacks the other, kills thousands and then declares war, which lasts a few years and incurs thousands more dead, and eventually refuses to surrender to the victor, is that not justification?
Therefore a show of power.
This is a direct quote from me in my previous post---->"yes it was a show of power" lol
I don't need you opinion on my insults
See thats the problem. Can it really be considered an insult if it does not insult the person its meant to? It might actually have been so bad that it made you insult yourself.
you should know that it's a bad thing and accept it.
"You said that the United States "threatens everyone" with nukes. I asked "who is everyone", obviously a question on which countries the US threatens. You, being the smartest person in the world, came to some strange, disconnected conclusion that I am an American who believes the US is "the only country in the world that matters." I was explicit and exact in my question, your lack of intelligence led you to a meaning that was completely irrelevant to what I was talking about."
In your original question you ask "who is everyone?" I'll answer it now since you cannot figure it out: the rest of the planet!
"lol, in what way did you use your confusion to your advantage? What do you think you gained from that?"
I gave you some advice since it was clear that you needed it.
"I could say the same thing about any argument that you have ever posted."
For example?...
"Are you suggesting that the US nuked "everyone" ?"
There's a clear difference between saying your going to blow up a city and actually doing your country obviously chose the latter, and in doing so scared the hell out of everyone else.
"Nice try down-playing that. If one country attacks the other, kills thousands and then declares war,"
Anther example how you beleive that U.S.A is the only country that matters, the rest of the world was halfway through WWII when that happened, Japan didnt "declare" war they only attacked you because you threatened them.(now where have we heard that before?)
"... which lasts a few years and incurs thousands more dead, and eventually refuses to surrender to the victor,"
Japan where already seeking peace in April 1945, you nuked them in August 1945.
No, unliked the U.S the rest of us civilised countries have abolished the death sentance as a form of justice.
"This is a direct quote from me in my previous post---->"yes it was a show of power" lol"
Show of power=threatening people
"See thats the problem. Can it really be considered an insult if it does not insult the person its meant to? It might actually have been so bad that it made you insult yourself.
Lol I accept it as a bad insult......"
I am not here to discuss the quality of my insults I'm here to debate on why the U.S is not the worlds greatest country.The fact that you appear to want to discuss my insults makes you very broing indeed.
I'll answer it now since you cannot figure it out: the rest of the planet!
Are you seriously trying to argue that the United States has threatened every country on Earth with its nuclear weapons?
I gave you some advice since it was clear that you needed it.
LOL. First, you did not give me any advice whatsoever. Second, how is giving someone advice an act of putting yourself at an advantage towards the person your advising? Do you think about what you are typing?
For example?...
LOL WHAT. Why do you need a specific example if I said "any argument that you have ever posted"? Are you really this dumb? Just choose any argument you have posted and that's an example. Your stupidity is seriously slowing this argument down.....
in doing so scared the hell out of everyone else.
So, with your ingenious logical reasoning, a country should not use a beneficial weapon because it might scare some people its not being used against?
the rest of the world was halfway through WWII when that happened
The rest of the world was halfway through WWII when Pearl Harbor was attacked? You are ridiculously unintelligent. WWII began in September of 1939, Pearl Harbor was attacked in 1941, and the war ended in 1945. Explain to me how 2 years through a 6 year war constitutes the halfway point of that war.....
Japan didnt "declare" war they only attacked you
Is attacking a neutral country not an act of war?
you threatened them.
How did the United States threaten Japan to push for the attack on Pearl Harbor?
Japan where already seeking peace in April 1945, you nuked them in August 1945.
You clearly have no knowledge of WWII. The Japanese refused to surrender, therefore we nuked them. Had they surrendered in April we would not have nuked them, but the failed to do so.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html
This source is unsubstantial and fails to prove your point. Gar Alperovitz, the author of the book that stated that Japan was seeking peace, has been known by many historians to be a revisionist, which basically means that he has been known to change history away from that which is commonly accepted and substantiated by other historians. This tendency destroys his credibility. You are going to have to find more than one historian to support your argument anyway...
No, unliked the U.S the rest of us civilised countries have abolished the death sentance as a form of justice.
And that means that the death sentence is not justified, because other people dont think its right? By the way, the UK, for example, enforced capital punishment during the time that the US nuked Japan. LOL
Show of power=threatening people
A show of power does not equal a threat to everyone person on the planet. A show of power directed towards one country is a threat to that country, in this case the Soviet Union.
I am not here to discuss the quality of my insults
LOL why would you be? I can't help but call you out on the ridiculous insults you try to use against me.
The fact that you appear to want to discuss my insults makes you very broing indeed.
Boring? Obviously it might be boring to you, who would want to listen to someone else make fun of their pathetic attempts to insult them?
"Are you seriously trying to argue that the United States has threatened every country on Earth with its nuclear weapons?"
By nuking 2 innocent towns full of civilians you have shown that you have atomic weapons of mass destruction and you're not afraid to use them, I dont understand how you could not take that as a threat
"LOL. First, you did not give me any advice whatsoever. Second, how is giving someone advice an act of putting yourself at an advantage towards the person your advising? Do you think about what you are typing?"
I have no wish to explain my motives to you. and would really like to stay on topic so I won't reply to this in the way you want me to.
"LOL WHAT. Why do you need a specific example if I said "any argument that you have ever posted"? Are you really this dumb? Just choose any argument you have posted and that's an example. Your stupidity is seriously slowing this argument down....."
When I said that I was asking for a source or at least some proof. the fatc that you cannot provide that shows how little the foundation is which your argument was built on.
"So, with your ingenious logical reasoning, a country should not use a beneficial weapon because it might scare some people its not being used against?"
It was not only a beneficial weapon it was a machine that could kill millions with the press of a button which no-one else had any defence against. How could you not be concerned about your own safety when someone has that?
"The rest of the world was halfway through WWII when Pearl Harbor was attacked? You are ridiculously unintelligent. WWII began in September of 1939, Pearl Harbor was attacked in 1941, and the war ended in 1945. Explain to me how 2 years through a 6 year war constitutes the halfway point of that war....."
Its called exaggeration its a form of linguistic device.
"Is attacking a neutral country not an act of war?"
Yes, but you were the ones threatening them.
"How did the United States threaten Japan to push for the attack on Pearl Harbor?"
They have, over time, built up an Empire from the Pacific and Eastern Asia you then have a fleet of battleships facing there direction. Primarily the USA plan was to cut off credit to the Japanese which would prevent them from being able to purchase petroleum. Japan received petroleum (an absolutely vital economic and military commodity, then as it is now) from three sources: The USA, Dutch east indies (Indonesia) and Burma (British controlled in the 1940's). The USA inspired movement included all three sources.
Japan could/would not accept a withdrawal from the Chinese war and instead began planning a first strike against the USA navy. Eliminating or reducing the USA naval forces in the Pacific would make the Japanese navy paramount, and thus Japan would be able to defeat the economic consequences of the USA ultimatum. After eliminating the USA navy Japan planned to occupy the Dutch East Indies and Burma, thus gaining control of enough oil to run their military and economy.
The strike on Pearl Harbor did exactly as hoped by the Japanese. The USA fleet was crippled. The Dutch lacked forces to repel the Japanese. The British navy (as ordered by Churchill) sent forces to defend their areas but these were totally inadequate for the job and were decimated quickly. Japan occupied all the oil producing areas and settled down to a war of attrition against the USA, which they hoped would wear down the USA politically and enable them to keep their conquests.
"You clearly have no knowledge of WWII. The Japanese refused to surrender, therefore we nuked them. Had they surrendered in April we would not have nuked them, but the failed to do so."
Your country clearly educates you in a form of censored history (propaganda)
(notice it says in 8th May 1945 Japan made an attempt to surrender)
"And that means that the death sentence is not justified, because other people dont think its right? By the way, the UK, for example, enforced capital punishment during the time that the US nuked Japan. LOL"
Even though we hadn't abolished it we didn't do it and no-one was expected to condemn someone to death(Britain has so many laws it takes years for us to iron out the wrinkles e.g slavery in Britain was abolished in 2004)
And how is being born in a country that belongs to your enemy a crime punishable by death?
"A show of power does not equal a threat to everyone person on the planet. A show of power directed towards one country is a threat to that country, in this case the Soviet Union."
You were showing every country in the world not to trifle with you.
Urban dictionary defines it as: Power play(show of power)(politics) The threat or use of power (military, economical etc) as coercion.
"LOL why would you be? I can't help but call you out on the ridiculous insults you try to use against me.
Boring? Obviously it might be boring to you, who would want to listen to someone else make fun of their pathetic attempts to insult them?"
I am sitting here and laughing at your pathetic attempts to elevate yourself above me.
You need to analyzed the situation more closely. The United States is not afraid to use nuclear weapons; what nuclear arms-possessing country would be if they are in a desperate situation enough to move to their last resort(nukes). Its the fact that we have been in several wars since the last time we used nuclear weapons and have not used them since that shows that the USA is extremely cautious of their utilization.
I dont understand how you could not take that as a threat
A threat is a measure of intent. The US has no intention of nuking a country such as Madagascar, for example, therefore they should not be threatened by us. If possession garners threat, everyone should feel threatened by the police.
I have no wish to explain my motives to you.
Nor do you have the ability. The blabber that comes out of your mouth is indefensible as it is random.
the fatc that you cannot provide that shows how little the foundation is which your argument was built on.
I just don't understand you. First you told me to find an example. I replied by saying that an example would be any argument you have ever posted. You then say I am incapable of providing an example. Ingenious.....
no-one else had any defence against.
The Japanese had defenses against an American invasion. Should have we invaded Japan? (the total loss of life in this situation would probably have been higher than dropping the atomic bombs)
How could you not be concerned about your own safety when someone has that?
A cop carries a gun. Should I not feel safe next to one?
Its called exaggeration its a form of linguistic device.
Doubt it. You probably didn't know how long the war was lol.
Yes, but you were the ones threatening them.
It was not a threat to their existence. It was a threat to their ability to wage war on innocent people.
you then have a fleet of battleships facing there direction
The naval base at Pearl Harbor was actually established before WW2. Its not like we built it just in case we decided to go after Japan.
Japan occupied all the oil producing areas
Really? lol Did Japan occupy Alaska?
(notice it says in 8th May 1945 Japan made an attempt to surrender)
Notice the source to back it up as well as the amazing detail offered in regard to the attempt to surrender.
And how is being born in a country that belongs to your enemy a crime punishable by death?
It was a part of Japanese culture to save face. Make no mistake, they did not want to surrender.
You were showing every country in the world not to trifle with you.
Oh so I guess we were showing a country like Nigeria not to "trifle with" us?
Urban dictionary....
Yeah, I stopped reading that sentence when I saw this.
I am sitting here and laughing at your pathetic attempts to elevate yourself above me.
"You need to analyzed the situation more closely. The United States is not afraid to use nuclear weapons; "
Thats what I said.
" what nuclear arms-possessing country would be if they are in a desperate situation enough to move to their last resort(nukes)."
You had the choice of invading japan or nuking them, you chose the nuke, that's not a last resort.
" Its the fact that we have been in several wars since the last time we used nuclear weapons and have not used them since that shows that the USA is extremely cautious of their utilization."
you can't compare these several "wars" to the world war two. I shall remind you that your so-called "wars" are interferances with middle-eastern countries, who are apparently "threatening" you with nuclear weapons(now where have we heard that before?).
What if a powerful country like Russia or France declared war on you, I bet your government would be pushing those buttons like crazy.
"A threat is a measure of intent."
Threat: something that is a source of danger
You haven't disposed your nukes and therefore have the intention to use them.
"The US has no intention of nuking a country such as Madagascar, for example, therefore they should not be threatened by us."
And what if your government changes to one of hostile intent? or global domination? if no-one is threatened how come they're all building missile defences.
"Nor do you have the ability."
How can you judge something I haven't given you?
"The blabber that comes out of your mouth is indefensible as it is random."
Random means I'm unpredictable and my arguments can be easily defended, it shows how good a judge you are.
"I just don't understand you. First you told me to find an example. I replied by saying that an example would be any argument you have ever posted. You then say I am incapable of providing an example. Ingenious....."
You told me to go look at any of my arguements and I found that none of them that were "pointless". I then asked you to select one of these arguments to prove your point and you were unable to or was just too lazy(typical of americans) to move your finger to click on the mouse button a few times.
"The Japanese had defenses against an American invasion."
They aren't stupid you know, they're not going to let you walk into their capital.
" Should have we invaded Japan? "
It's what the rest of us would have done.
"(the total loss of life in this situation would probably have been higher than dropping the atomic bombs)"
So just because they defended their country you thought it justifiable to destroy 225,000 of their citizens.
"A cop carries a gun. Should I not feel safe next to one?"
Your country is the only "civilised" place to allow an everyday policemen to carry guns.
Not only do your cops carry guns but your citizens do to, in a television program some presenters drove across Alabama with messages painted on their cars and just because their opinion differed to the citizens of Alabama thought it legal to stone and shoot them. You clearly have the wrong definition of "safe".
"Doubt it. You probably didn't know how long the war was lol."
What do you mean "doubt it" that's a fact, you retard, and of course I know how long the war was. Do you even know what exaggeration means?(oh, wait you're american, I shouldn't be surprised)
"It was not a threat to their existence."
You threatened their empire, that's them. Your country won't understand how protective countries are to their empires.
"It was a threat to their ability to wage war on innocent people. "
Your one to talk, claiming it's ok to nuke towns of innocents.
"The naval base at Pearl Harbor was actually established before WW2."
The Japanese Empire was established before WW1
"Its not like we built it just in case we decided to go after Japan."
You don't just build a huge fleet of ships with no intention to use them.
"Really? lol Did Japan occupy Alaska?"
Of course they didn't, the whole text was about the Pacific.
"Notice the source to back it up as well as the amazing detail offered in regard to the attempt to surrender."
I have argued with americans many times before and nearly all have been unable to understand the sources therefore I have had to clearly highlight the bits that prove my argument. Either way you didn't disagree with me but merely stated my debating tactics, next time actually argue.
"It was a part of Japanese culture to save face. Make no mistake, they did not want to surrender."
Are you actually retarded? In my previous argument not only did I provide a source clearly station that japan wanted to surrender but I also highlighted it as well, you then proceed to claim that Japan didn't want to surrender without any comment to the source.
"Oh so I guess we were showing a country like Nigeria not to "trifle with" us?"
Why did you bring Nigeria into it?
"Yeah, I stopped reading that sentence when I saw this."
I doubt you would understand half the words in the "oxford Reading Dictionary" so I chose a source which you could understand.
"lol no you arent. nice try though"
Not only can you apparently read my thoughts but you can travel back in time to do so.I'll spell it out for you I W-A-S (thats was by the way) laughing, that is not an argument but a fact which you could not possibly argue against successfully, it was a statement not open for debate but an insult to you.
You had the choice of invading japan or nuking them, you chose the nuke, that's not a last resort.
Had we invaded there would have been a greater net loss of life. Invading wasn't really considered to be an option, therefore the nuke was the last resort in getting the Japanese to surrender.
you can't compare these several "wars" to the world war two.
Even better. Considering the rarity of a war such as one of the World War's, it could be argued that the utilization of nukes by any country is also rare. In addition to this, more than one country now has nuclear weapons so the cost of using nukes are much higher.
What if a powerful country like Russia or France declared war on you, I bet your government would be pushing those buttons like crazy.
If any country launches a nuke to another country, the country being attacked will retaliate with nukes. American politicians know this and consider nuclear weapons a worst-case scenario and last resort in the event that nukes are launched against America.
Threat: something that is a source of danger
Where did you get that definition? You probably made it up as it makes no rational sense. A kitchen knife is a source of danger, is that a threat? Now that I think of it, a pretzel could be a source of danger as someone could choke on it, is a pretzel a threat?
You haven't disposed your nukes and therefore have the intention to use them.
Ingenious logic..........People keep guns in their houses for protection. Does that mean that they are going to take it outside one day and start shooting people?
government changes to one of hostile intent? or global domination?
If we start nuking countries to take over the world, nukes will be launched against us. In the attempt, we would destroy ourselves.
if no-one is threatened how come they're all building missile defences.
Define all.
How can you judge something I haven't given you?
Past experiences....
Random means I'm unpredictable and my arguments can be easily defended
LOL random does mean that you are unpredictable but I dont know how you came to the conclusion that your arguments are therefore easily defensible. You are unpredictable in that your arguments can sometimes be completely irrelevant to what I am saying.
I then asked you to select one of these arguments to prove your point
I clearly said any of the arguments apply. The fact that you don't see a connection is irrelevant.
just too lazy(typical of americans)
Uh oh. Its kind of strange how Americans, who you think are lazy, have the most productive economy on the planet. lol You're smart. Don't worry though, I am intelligent enough to know that generalizing against a huge group of people is ridiculous. I won't do it to British people.
They aren't stupid you know, they're not going to let you walk into their capital.
Hence, we decided to nuke them.
It's what the rest of us would have done.
LOL. Nice try. Any rational government would conclude that an invasion would lead to an increased death of its own citizens and a higher total loss of life. Don't try to represent the rest of the world, you're not smart enough, sorry.
So just because they defended their country
Don't sugarcoat it. They were refusing to surrender to the victor.
Your country is the only "civilised" place to allow an everyday policemen to carry guns.
Yeah maybe they should just carry batons, so when they get attacked by someone with a gun they will be able to sufficiently protect themselves.
You clearly have the wrong definition of "safe".
You clearly don't know anything about America....
that's a fact, you retard, and of course I know how long the war was.
Right, of course you do. :)
You threatened their empire, that's them.
But not their existence......
claiming it's ok to nuke towns of innocents.
It was war. They believed that it was ok to kill innocent Americans, we believed it was ok to kill innocent Japanese people. They were refusing to surrender and therefore refusing to not be our enemy.
The Japanese Empire was established before WW1
Are you suggesting that Pearl Harbor was built because America was an enemy of Japan? Please say no, dont make yourself look dumb again.
You don't just build a huge fleet of ships with no intention to use them.
We intended to use them. We did not specifically intend to use them against Japan. Its not like we said "Oh, we are probably going to fight Japan in twenty years, we should build a big navy to fight them."
Of course they didn't, the whole text was about the Pacific.
It was about loosing oil that the US was shipping them. You said they took back the places they were getting oil from, Alaska is a huge producer of oil, therefore you implied that they took back Alaska.
Go to this link, what is the ocean under Alaska......lol
I have argued with americans many times before and nearly all have been unable to understand the sources therefore I have had to clearly highlight the bits that prove my argument.
Think of it this way: are the chances of you being constantly wrong higher than the chances of everyone else always being wrong? They dont understand your sources because you constantly list sources that are irrelevant or unsubstantial.
I provide a source clearly station that japan wanted to surrender
I believe I explained why that source was useless.....
Why did you bring Nigeria into it?
As an example. Lol could you really not see that?
I doubt you would understand half the words in the "oxford Reading Dictionary" so I chose a source which you could understand.
Please don't be pretentious. You chose a source that would satisfy your argument. In this case, your source was a website where random people can make up their own definitions. lol
Not only can you apparently read my thoughts but you can travel back in time to do so.
Think about this. Who actually laughs when someone insults them. Even if they think that insult is terrible. Its a ridiculous thing to say. Don't try to get me to think things that you fabricate.
it was a statement not open for debate but an insult to you.
Well I guess you tried then, right? Trying is all that counts.
Not an ounce of truth in this statement, well maybe an ounce. The homeless would not be rich in France, England, Italy, Germany, etc.; maybe in Ethiopia.
Ya i get the tags as being a little vague sorry. I guess im trying to see how many people think the US became a superpower by suspect means. Such as native americans and slavery. Not looking back from now but during the time period it happened. Doubt that helps.
I will start with the lazy comment. Americans are not lazy. We work for everything we have. We have longer work weeks, longer work days and fewer holidays. Americans have driven the world economy for almost 70 years. We have accomplished more in the last 100 years than many other nations have during there entire existence.
As for patting ourselves on the back, we have a lot to be proud of and just because we can list off a long line of accomplishments doesn't mean that we are "patting ourselves on the back" any more than say an Olympic gold metal winner is patting him/herself on the back by being exceptional.
I do agree with you that we should not be sticking our collective noses in every body else's business.
If you want to measure how great our country is by how rich our poor are than we are a pretty great country. The only "poor" people out there are the ones that choose to be that way or are drug addicts or mentally handicapped, and even they have options if they want help.
You sir, are taking cheap shots at the country that you presumably live in. If you don't like it everyone would be happy if you left (you included).
Nationalism gives me the shivers... It's the kind of mindset that leads to unconditional civil obedience. Overall a bad idea to put too much faith in a nation. I love my nation and I believe in it, but not in such a way as to believe it is the greatest or that it cannot be beaten or improved upon.
I disagree. America is great because it can be improved upon. Its remarkable that the founding fathers so many years ago had the foresight to allow the people the ability and the freedom to change it.
I would venture that North Korea is not great exactly because it can not be improved upon. Of course there is also the population starving, being run by an insane dictator, extreme technological backwardness, etc. but these problems can't be fixed like they surely would be if North Korea had the same type of government that we do.
You take for granted that we can improve our country. I don't think that is what makes our country great, but it certainly deserves more credit than you are giving it.
Stating that something is the greatest in no way means it cannot be improved upon. The best in any category can most definitely be improved upon but does not disqualify it from being the greatest at the time.
Ah, but too often the greatest get smug and when that happens, they won't be the greatest for long. I believe we're in the state of disbelief that we're being left behind right now, not willing to accept the facts that this nation needs to evolve.
If your statement were true, then you would be happy with the US being smug because it would lead to "won't be the greatest for long" but you are not happy which proves your statement is pure bull.
america is where people who lie to further themselves, and i know liars are everywhere, america has a concentration, im an american, and i dont really feel loyal to my so called homeland.
These debates are not required. You dont care then dont put up juvenile comments. To your point, any country can be considered the best, its just up to the individual to think what they want.
I would say that it is relative as different people have their own views. Usually a person would say that his or own country would be the best as it is their home.
America didn't accept blacks long time ago and they fought a lot of wars, so I would recommend Finland, because their country is kind of peaceful and they are the Highest GDP country a few years ago by the way the year I wrote this was 2010.
What makes a great country? is it the wealth? armed forces? so many things that define a country yet none of which make it great, land is land and is not great but the soils for man, but people say the USA is great because they defeat "bad people" in war such as the Nazi and the Japanese during WW2, yes Hitler was crazy but aside that, is it really that great to kill someone? that after you think "what if he had a family" and that will stay on that person forever, but a great country does not exist so long as there is war.
The war of independence is the worst thing that’s happened to America it seems. As it’s just been fighting every other country in the world since becoming republic of Britain. If you compare what the founding fathers wanted and what it’s become they would revolt!
No I think you should judge a society by how it treats its weakest citizens. The Us doesn't have Health insurance for everyone. Most industrial countries do. Our education system is falling behind and the gap between rich and poor is the growing.
Most of those who are probably for the "proud" side are probably Americans! And that is what makes all the other citizens of the surrounding countries angry! The reason that we "hate" them so much is because they don't know that we hate them!
I think they need to stop taking themselves so seriously, and perhaps just focus on actually making their country great, because part of being a great country/nation, is having a great reputation. And I bet that most people out there, no matter if you are reading this a loathing every single word I put down... you know it... USA has a horrendous reputation with the rest of the globe as being the "bully". I think they need to grow up and start taking responsibility for their actions, just like we would teach any young child to do so.
America isn't so great. I'm American and I wish I lived in another country. A european country to be exact (not sure which one though). We've been raised to believe America is the best country. How are we the best? Sure we have freedom and democracy, but what is truly great about America? We aren't a particularly peaceful country. We've had one bad politician after another get elected to lead our country. We're fighting wars that we should stay out of. Our soldiers are fighting over seas and losing their lives. Those are lives that can never be taken back. There are countries that stay out of these wars. Countries where people don't have to worry about their loved ones dying in a pointless fight. America is a very controlling country. America is viewed as the capital of the world. For America to be the GREATEST country, we need to start thinking about ways to be more peaceful and more caring towards our own people. Allow each individual the chance to live an exceptional life and not waste it. I also would like to clarify, that I have great respect for our troops and I am glad that I live in America instead of some third world country.
Hell no. We are behind in almost everything but military power. Just because you are stronger than someone else doesn't make you better than them. That's the way a child would think and that's how most of our so called leaders think.
How could the USA possibly be the greatest country? So many Americans act like we're the only country with freedom or something and just show their ignorance by saying things like that. We lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of scientifically illiterate adults, and defense spending.
