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7
5
Puss Peen
Debate Score:12
Arguments:23
Total Votes:17
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 Puss (7)
 
 Peen (5)

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COWBOY33445(34) pic



I demand to know how Nom can hope to defeat Capitalism

What do you think is an actual realistic way for events to pan out that results in the human race becoming socialist? Every single other long term outcome is more likely from extinction to AI-run technofascism and even to some form of futuristic capitalism.

Puss

Side Score: 7
VS.

Peen

Side Score: 5
0 points

It would help if first we established which version you want. With machine guns or without machine guns?

Side: Puss
0 points

Well, as a staunch capitalist I believe that it is a pointless and futile exercise to criticize the established procedures or social and economic structure of a society without being able to present a viable and universally fairer alternative.

However, in the vein of keeping an open mind I am of the opinion that the weaknesses of the capitalist system has been graphically illustrated in the past few years with most of the West's economies tottering on the verge of bankruptcy.

We can also see how the divide between rich & poor has widened during this time period and continues to do so apace.

In this context I feel it is vital that alterative systems of economic management and wealth distribution should be brought to the table for serious debate.

The problems associated with any form of commercial/economic change must allow for the indisputable fact that everyone is not equal and there will always be widespread executive corruption and worker dishonesty.

In the competition of life, and it is a competition, everyone has varying levels of value and the high performers, the innovative and entrepreneurial fireballs will always be in the premier division.

Communism has been tried and failed.

In their endeavour to make communism work Stalin and Mao filled the graveyards of their respective countries with millions of their own people whom they deemed were retarding the establishment of their totalitarian type of population control and state direction.

So far we have to accept that, as Churchill said about democracy, capitalism is the worst form of economic management, except for all the rest that is.

Changing the rules in a hopeless effort to make the strong weaker so the weak can feel less inferior is nothing more than a form of madness that is doomed to end in failure and misery.

Side: Puss
loopdaloop(158) Clarified
0 points

Communism has been tried and failed.

It hasn't brother. You need to delve a little deeper into this, past the distorted information provided by capitalist governments acting through proxy of the mainstream media. Marx never wanted an all-powerful state. He wanted the complete opposite. His mistake arose from the real problem of how to transition societies which had been capitalist for hundreds of years into communist ones. The only way he saw to enact that change was government, but on the other hand he'd also spent countless hours writing about how government was an unnecessary by-product of capitalism, whose only real-world purpose was protecting the interests of the upper class. His idea was, as the roots of communism expanded into society, government would cease to perform any useful function and gradually would "wither away". However, what happened in reality is that opportunists like Stalin took advantage of the power vacuum left behind by the overthrow of the Tsarist system which had existed previously, and simply set up shop for themselves. It takes a very particular sort of person to be omnipotent, almost like a god, and then hand that power back to the people themselves. I'm not sure anybody has the strength to do that, but if they do then it certainly wasn't Stalin or Mao.

Side: Puss
COWBOY33445(34) Clarified
1 point

Before anyone is even allowed to call themselves a communist or socialist they should be mandated to have a realistic explanation for how it can be achieved which no human being in history has been able to produce. Your futile retarded religion is built upon a faith in humanity which the entirety of history proves to be irrational. The only way to make humanity Communist is to rebuild the species biologically and create a hive mind. It isn't just the leaders who have to be principled enough to give the power back while there's a 99% chance they are all power seeking types and that's how they got in power in the first place but the people as a collective who have to operate in a way most humans aren't biologically wired to. Leader types (who are almost inherently power seeking) and highly cooperative types are the minority and the majority of humans are lazy but disagreeable monkeys by nature who have been domesticated. That domestication of the unwashed masses is what really holds civilization together and it relies purely on a combination of peer pressure, intimidation by the state and materialistic rewards.

Side: Puss
1 point

This is a very helpful post for me. I'm very grateful that you shared this with me and everyone else

Supporting Evidence: quordle (quordle-wordle.com)
Side: Peen
0 points

Most people who read "The Communist Manifesto" probably have no idea that it was written by a couple of young men who had never worked a day in their lives, and who nevertheless spoke boldly in the name of "the workers".

The economic disasters of socialism and communism come from assuming a blanket superiority of those who want to run a whole economy.

One of the bitter ironies of the 20th century was that communism, which began as an egalitarian doctrine accusing capitalism of selfishness and calloused sacrifices of others, became in power a system whose selfishness and callousness toward others made the sins of capitalism pale.

The story of Detroit's bankruptcy was simple enough: Allow capitalism to grow the city, campaign against income inequality, tax the job creators until they flee, increase government spending in order to boost employment, promise generous pension plans to keep people voting for failure. Rinse, wash and repeat.

Side: Peen
loopdaloop(158) Disputed
0 points

Most people who read "The Communist Manifesto" probably have no idea that it was written by a couple of young men who had never worked a day in their lives, and who nevertheless spoke boldly in the name of "the workers".

Marx worked for the Daily Tribune for ten years as a journalist you pig ignorant twat. At least throw the occasional piece of truth into your historical hatchet job.

Side: Puss
NomsNutSac(3) Disputed
1 point

You left out that when Marx said "workers", he meant people who did manual labor and lifted heavy objects as opposed to lifting nothing but a pen. Very few people in those days made a living doing anything other than manual labor. He didn't say white collar journalists who sit in an air conditioned room unite. He said workers of the world unite.

Side: Peen
loopdaloop(158) Disputed
0 points

One of the bitter ironies of the 20th century was that communism, which began as an egalitarian doctrine accusing capitalism of selfishness and calloused sacrifices of others, became in power a system whose selfishness and callousness toward others made the sins of capitalism pale.

It's incredibly disappointing when I watch idiots like you attempt to criticize The Communist Manifesto without ever actually having read The Communist Manifesto. Communism, as envisioned by Marx, necessitated the complete end to the state and therefore state power.

It takes an overwhelming amount of arrogance, not to mention ignorance, to try to criticize a book you clearly haven't even read.

These, criticisms of yours, which have become all too common among shit-stirring capitalist deceivers, essentially all follow precisely the same formula. Hitler claimed he was a socialist, therefore socialism is bad. Stalin claimed he was a communist, therefore communism is bad. Well, guess what? Jeffrey Epstein claimed he was a capitalist.

Side: Puss