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Debate Info

128
139
There is no Hell Watch me prove it.
Debate Score:267
Arguments:169
Total Votes:348
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Argument Ratio

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 There is no Hell (100)
 
 Watch me prove it. (108)

Debate Creator

Saintnow(3684) pic



I'm better than God because I insist He is not there

God can't do anything to me as long as I deny that He is there and there is no Hell.  I fully intend to prove Hell is a myth and there is no God.  My death will prove it and then I win the argument.  Just because the Bible says I'm a fool does not mean I'm not a genius.

There is no Hell

Side Score: 128
VS.

Watch me prove it.

Side Score: 139

When someone presents a picture of Hell, then I will believe in it.

Hell only exists in horror movies.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So you won't believe Hell is real until you find yourself unable to get out of the fire. That's your choice.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-2 points
3 points

The burden of proof is on the one who says there is a Hell. Just show a picture of Hell, and then Hell exists.

Side: There is no Hell
pirateelfdog(2655) Disputed Banned
2 points

Then why do you believe it? Are you dead? You just admitted you have no proof. So why do you believe this?

Side: There is no Hell
4 points

Scholars admit the large possibility of annihilation or universal salvation as alternatives to the traditional view held at the Synod of Constantiople, for textual reasons, and theologically the idea of a merciless God contradicts everything we know about Jesus. Hans Kung sites many early stage pre-doctrinal church fathers in his argument against literal Hellfire,

"Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Jerome, and Ambrose, interpreted the fire metaphorically. 'Fire' is a metaphor for God's wrath, 'eternal' is not always understood in the strict sense in Hebrew, Greek and modern linguistic usage….Neither in Judaism, nor in the New Testament is there any uniform view of the period of punishment for sin."

-Prof. Hans Kung, Eternal Life, p.136

Plenty Old-New Testament verses contradict the non-biblical doctrine of eternal Hell.

"For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as ALL die in Adam, so ALL will be made alive in Christ." (1 Corinthians 15:21,22)

"God has imprisoned men in their own disobedience only to show mercy to all mankind." (Romans 11:32)

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” (John 12:32)

"Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe." (Timothy 4:10)

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know God. You are trying to change God into being subjective to your own feelings. You are dead in your sins, dying, and will end up in eternal death in Hell's fire if you don't get saved from it. You are not saved now, you are trusting in your own goodness which is no good for anything other than dying eternally as a testimony to God's goodness and His right to rule against you.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-2 points
4 points

Troll makes religious debate>Atheist tards swarm in like insects to a cow's ass smothered with honey.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

It sounds to me like a fly full of filth swooped in. You need help. This is the last time I will allow you to post any vulgar speech in my debates. You will also spell God's name correctly and refer to Him always in the masculine form or you will be banned from my debates the moment I see you posting. This is the last warning for you. I don't need you in my debates any more than God needs you in heaven. I want you to participate the same as God wants you to participate in heaven, but I'm not God and you tested my patience for the last time.

You and Pirate have received the same warning. The same warning is issued to others, but so far there are only three I remember well enough by name. You, ProLogos, Pirate, and Cartman...Cartman has been a pleasant surprise for me by abiding by my rules of no cussing.

This kind of stuff just makes me want to puke when I read it, and if that's all you have to contribute here you will not be welcome.

Side: Watch me prove it.
umaroth(7) Clarified Banned
1 point

This kind of stuff just makes me want to puke when I read it, and if that's all you have to contribute here you will not be welcome.

You should really pray to your goddess for help then.

You need help.

Yeah you do. Sadly your goddess doesn't seem to be helping you.

Side: There is no Hell
umaroth(7) Clarified Banned
1 point

you tested my patience for the last time.

You must disappoint your goddess with so little patience.

Side: There is no Hell
AlofRI(3294) Banned
4 points

Nobody here is going to "prove" anything, one way or the other. The only thing shown here is that some people let others control their thoughts, and some speak for themselves, going by what they SEE and by analyzing WHAT they see with their own mind.

A Rabbi named Maimonides once said: "Do not consider it proof just because it is written in books, for a liar who will deceive with his tongue will not hesitate do the same with his pen."

I wonder if he considered the Bible one of those books? Many will say the writers of the Bible weren't liars. They really didn't know. It was hundreds of years "after the fact" that this was "written" by using a compilation of myths, "interpreted scrolls" and barely readable (and interpreted) stone tablets and Papyrus scratchings with many pieces missing which had to be filled in with the imaginations of the fervent believers who were collating them. MLK jr said: Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." Forgive me Mr. King, but doesn't that include the sincere and conscientious collators of the Bible??

Thinking for myself, I believe "hell" is in the imagination.

Side: There is no Hell
1 point

Of course the Rabbi you are referring to considered the Bible to be a book of lies because the New Testament is all about Jesus Christ who is the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament. The Jewish religious leaders rejected Him as their Messiah, accused Him of blasphemy because He claimed equality with God, and used that charge to call for death under Jewish law.....and threatened Pontius Pilate by threatening to appeal to Ceasar because Jesus claimed to be the King of Israel and Ceasar allowed no other king in the Roman Empire.

You are onw who "let others control their thoughts". You are listening to liars who hate God, hate Jesus Christ, and have sold your eager ignorance by twisting history blatantly because they know that simple minded people like you will buy their lies and then parade themselves as if they have the powerful truth.

The "myther" garbage is a modern movement purposely ignoring and distorting history. You are being mindless and letting your mind be filled with lies. You are taking a one-sided approach to history sold to you by people who make a living out of ignoring history and twisting facts.

That is enough on this topic, I will not allow this debate to change into a different topic. Return to discussing God's right to leave sinners in Hell, or your belief that you are exempt from Hell because you are as good or better than God, or your belief that there is no Hell.

The only people saying something has to be proved here are the ones who insist they are not going to burn in Hell because they insist it is not there, or they insist God is not there so He can't leave them in Hell. I supposed you need proof that Hell is real, and like the others, if the only way you will accept proof is to find yourself in the fire with no way out, then you will get your proof and you will know that I warned you and you got the proof and I didn't prove it, I only warned you.

The only thing you said worth contribution to the discussion here is that you believe "hell" is in the imagination. Who taught you to believe that? Why do you believe that? You think everybody is supposed to question their belief if they believe the Bible, but you are not supposed to question your own belief? The only way your belief can be unquestionable is that it is based on the authority of God....and I suppose you think you are the same as God for yourself and for anybody else dumb enough to think you are as good as God.

I suppose the fact that you are dying now is not something real, but it is only in your mind because you believe you are living now and not dying. The fact that you are dying should tell you that you need to be saved, but since you are dying slowly as you get older instead of drowning quickly I guess that means you think you are doing fine and don't need to be saved. Dying like you are doing now is what you will do forever if you don't get saved from it. Your dying is caused by sin which you inherited and which will take you to Hell if you don't obtain pardon from God.

This is simple common sense logic. The teaching is Biblical, but even apart from the Bible, God wrote His message in all of Creation and it is in you, His law is written on your heart and you know you have broken it if you deny it or not. My guess is that you are in complete denial of reality. Hell is real and God has the right to allow you to go there if you want to keep on insisting that your sin is worth dying for which is all you are doing. You are trying to put on a show of being smart and strong and your dying is proving you to be a powerless fool thinking you can defy God and be exempt from Hell because you insist He is not there and Hell is only in the imagination.

Hell is in your imagination because God is trying to warn you of where you are going if you don't secure His eternal mercy, forgiveness, and pardon. God wants you to have eternal life with Him in Heaven or He would stop giving you air to breathe now and let you go off into the Hell you insist is not there as you defy Him in your willful ignorance.

Side: There is no Hell
AlofRI(3294) Clarified Banned
1 point

First, the Rabbi wasn't talking about the Bible, he was talking about liars in general.

Second, It seems you are saying that, because they didn't buy Jesus' "son of god" claim, that THEY don't deserve to worship god and should be punished. THEY were there at the time, they saw things that were not just "written about". Is it possible that they might just know a truth or two that doesn't fit with what YOU have read? That maybe these people wielding the pens hundreds of year later were "interpreting" the ancient languages and symbols wrongly? That they were maybe "filling in the blanks" with "righteous enthusiasm"? Like I said, THEY were there! The scribes of Constantine were NOT! Besides, the scribes knew that they'd better come up with a story that pleased the Emperor, or, .... well, we know from more convincing sources that Emperors don't like when things don't go their way!

"....my belief that I am better than god." Not really. I can't be better than something I don't believe exists. I AM better than an entity that would turn its back on 20 of "Its innocent creations" while a faulty "creation" mowed them down with gunfire, one that would let another wash up on a beach @ 5 years old while thousands of others died or suffered with him. One that stood by while its followers prevented women from getting healthcare they couldn't afford. Allowed the rich to live better and longer simply because they could protect themselves with their money! What was that Jesus said (allegedly) about a camel passing through the eye of a needle? And how is it that Jesus is the "son of god" to your religion, and only an important prophet to another? Why do these two "Jesus" religions have different names for what is obviously the same "god"? Different "instructions from "him". Obviously, someone has received lies .... of course, it HAS to be THEM! Which is THEIR thoughts, exactly. MY, how things get confused over the centuries.

Ever do that thing in school where someone makes a statement to someone in a corner of the room and that statement gets whispered from person to person until it reaches the opposite corner? Usually, it never even resembles the original statement. Sorry, I can't "believe" when the originator never steps forward and clears up the TRUE statement! It's strange that a "god" so powerful that he could inscribe commandments in stone, could not put his entire set of rules into something PERMANENT, LASTING ... and ... SIGNED! WHY leave something so important up to "interpretation"? If our forefathers left the Constitution to "word of mouth", can you imagine a session of congress today?? Peter said this....! John said THAT....! WE know it's true ....because our secretaries wrote it down ... and we made sure that they wrote what WE figured was MEANT! Sorry, I can't live my life by what others tell me I must do, because someone else says I must!

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

You are thinking for yourself as if you are God. You need to try thinking about things the way God thinks about them. You need to think about yourself the way God thinks about you. Thinking for yourself isn't doing anything for you other than taking you down in death, with one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell. God loves you or He would let that thin ice break through now and you would be lost forever in Hell.

What you are doing is trying to preserve the pleasures of your sin and that can only lead to death and the loss of all pleasure. All of your "thinking for yourself" in reality is self-defeating. God is trying to give you the victory over death and you are trying to seal your own tomb.

God gives you the freedom to think for yourself however you want to think. It has been said that love and freedom are two sides of the same coin. Even if you are destroying yourself going your own way thinking for yourself and not caring what God thinks of you, God will allow you to do that because He loves you.

You need to start thinking of yourself the way God thinks of you...and that will lead to eternal life instead of eternal death where you are going. What are you afraid of? Are you afraid of taking sides against all evil? Are you afraid you will lose friends if you stop sinning the way they like to sin?

Side: Watch me prove it.
Aspire(62) Banned
2 points

There is no such thing as hell. It was made up by Jesus, who was in turn made up by the Egyptians who got it from another culture. The story is just a long standing myth; and I being atheist do not believe I lose everything in death. If you think back to a time before you were born you'll notice that you were dead... therefore, you would go back to which you came... presumably to come back again...It happened once, it can surely happen again.

Also, this is an opinion debate! Not a for or against debate.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

This is a wonderful display of the modern internet mind-numbing in which many people are persuaded to believe a few big mouth raving lunatics who ignore history and state a new version of it as factual with an assortment of "proofs". Weak minded people buy these "myther" teachings because they think they are smart by parroting them.

Your diatribe, the "mythers" argument, is a sidetrack from the debate. You are avoiding discussing the issue which is basically believing that you have the right to exist outside of Hell forever.

I say you do not have that right. You say you do have that right.

Where did you get that right?

You are arguing for your right to exist outside of Hell by trying to trash Jesus Christ. I think that's an extremely weak argument. You have no right to live, and that fact is proved by your dying which is being finalized. God gives you time and God puts an end to it, and then you get what you deserve if you are not forgiven....and that is Hell's confinement in torments, believe it or not.

Your assertion that there is no such thing as Hell is something you don't have the ability to guarantee. You just have to prove it for yourself because you can ONLY prove it for yourself. You will see if Hell is real, won't you? Oh yeah, I forgot, you claim you already see. Uh huh, sure, you are the god, you see past the grave...yeah right. Who you trying to fool, hater? You just hate God and love death, admit it. And you think you know there is no Hell...yeah right.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

Somebody is leading you to believe that you have the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell forever. You are making statements as factual when they are based on nothing but your own desire to exist outside of Hell forever. The only way you can test your beliefs is for your count-down in time in this world to end.

I held this kind of belief system for years. It's Americanized Hinduism, existentialism....whatever you want to call it. I was deep into it. Because of the way you have acted, I know you are nothing more than in initiate in this kind of believe presuming to come back again after your time is finalized and you leave this world. I am fully aware of the multitude of supporting experiences and encounters which people have by which they believe things are being proved to support their beliefs.....so-called past life experiences, spirit encounters, whatever....it's all the same old stuff with new twists of how it's expressed verbally, changing with the times. This "think back before you were born to the time you were dead" stuff is a common line pushed in colleges and internet today to support atheism by teaching existentialism. Existentialism and atheism are structurally the same belief system....one says "I exist, therefore I am", the other says, "I exist until I stop existing"

Both of them are self-delusional, both of them seek to delude themselves into believing they do not deserve to die and burn in Hell forever separate from God as a sinner.

Both of them are pretty much incapable admitting the truth....but God can change them. God loves you and wants you to be saved from Hell, but if you insist you have the right to exist outside of Hell, you are forcing God to prove you wrong. If you insist you have the right to live in this world, you are forcing God to prove you wrong.

You are fighting against God and losing. If I were you, I would stop before it's too late and all is lost. You are losing it all...sorry. I hope you find God giving you the victory someday like me.

Side: Watch me prove it.

There is hell, it's right here on earth with these talking apes. Thank God it's tempory!

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Here on Earth is here on Earth. The "hell" you are referring to is an expletieve, a cuss word, and I would appreciate it if you would stop using it that way in this debate. Being annoyed by people is not Hell. By the way you are acting, I think it's pretty obvious that you are on your way to the real Hell where God forever separates sinners from Himself because that's what they wanted, to be separate from God. You are loving your sin all the way through death into Hell. Correct?

Side: Watch me prove it.
umaroth(7) Banned
1 point

The real hell would be spending an eternity with your psychopathic goddess.

Side: There is no Hell
1 point

this is a bit Nitpicky, but genius is not the opposite of fool. Fool is a matter of perception, IE: "You're a fool for believing that was gold!" genius is a matter of learning. IE: "Spotting that pattern and finishing the equation the way you did, That was genius!"

-

Yeah... Cool story right?

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

I know faggots hate God and love their sin more than life, you don't need to say it.

Side: Watch me prove it.
-2 points
pirateelfdog(2655) Disputed Banned
3 points

Well, have you been given proof of Hell? You seem very confident in it's existence. Why do you have this confidence?

Side: Watch me prove it.
2 points

Why are you banning debators who write good debates and get points from other debators?? I find this disturbing.. This shows that you cannot stand up for yourself and hence you ban them! Coward.. I know you are gonna ban me now so you mine as well do it.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Seems to me that you are the coward since you made no effort to discuss the topic of the debate.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-1 points

Um, excuse me Mr. Clown, you might want to read some of what I thought was pretty good back and forth here with Piratedog.

It also might interest you that it's me giving most points to the debators here. I think points are kinda silly, you can have all of mine...in fact, I'm giving you one now.

If you want to discuss the topic, why don't you do it instead of sit there whining and begging me to ban you for doing nothing but whining? Quit being disturbed. God wants you to be whole and have peace from Him which passes understanding. God is offering you a peace agreement between you and Him now if you will quit whining and start listening to Him. He's trying to get you saved from Hell.

The people I banned were mostly just whining and insulting exactly like you are doing here. Pirateelfdog is the only one I recall who has actually put up something resembling adult conversation for debating. He made a good example here, showing you up as the coward in this topic.

Why don't you argue the topic with me so I can try to convince you that you deserve to burn in Hell the same as me and you can be forgiven by God and saved from it the same as me? You are the coward. Put up your argument in the debate or shut up your whining please.

After this, I certainly will ban you if that's all you want and your twisted mind makes you think you scored a point by getting me to ban you....put up or shut up, post an argument in the debate or quit your crybaby whining.

Side: There is no Hell
6 points

Don't you get tired of posting the same nonsense over and over? Nobody here actually debates you because you don't have the decency to hold a legitimate conversation, and nobody here takes you seriously.

So, again: don't you get tired of just yelling at people?

Side: Watch me prove it.
Cuaroc(8829) Banned
5 points

I'm better than God because I insist He is not there

No Humans are better than God because we aren't all mass murders.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Kingly342(29) Banned
1 point

OOOOHHHH!!!! BURN!!!! SHOTS FIREED!!! GET REKT!!!! OOOHHH!!! BURNNN!!! 360 24 DORITOES!!!! YAHHH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA TAKE THAT SAINTSNOW!!!! SOMEONE GET THE CAMERA!!!

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So you think that you are better, stronger, smarter than God. I accept that as your final argument. If you keep on with it, one day God will accept that as your final argument and all indications of His goodness will be withdrawn from you in the fire of Hell. As an illustration of how your argument can suddenly be finalized by the One who is in authority, you are banned here by this one Saint.

Side: There is no Hell
2 points

This is a really confusing debate. The debate description doesn't represent the viewpoint of anyone.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

If you are so easily confused, you should have stayed out so I wouldn't have to read your stupid comments and ban you.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
-1 points

If you have no viewpoint, and none is represented here, I guess you amount to nothing and enjoy nothingness. I guess that explains a lot of your behavior though it is not an excuse for anything but dying and you sure are doing it, aren't you?

Can we give a hand of applause to the Cartman here?

Side: There is no Hell
Cartman(18192) Disputed Banned
2 points

Just because you didn't represent my viewpoint doesn't mean I don't have one.

Side: Watch me prove it.

I hope other debators see this and know what I am talking about..

Side: Watch me prove it.
2 points

Guess what, I am better than you because insist that you dont exist.

Side: Watch me prove it.
0 points

That's pretty much exactly what Atheists are saying to God...and guess who is losing in the argument?

Side: Watch me prove it.
3 points

You are losing the argument, so what does that mean?

Side: Watch me prove it.
Gravy(3) Banned
1 point

If one is sitting all alone, suspended in darkness, they wouldn't be conscious of anything else. This is how I imagine God, before the creation story. An unconscious being or entity (a singlarity). When God "created" the holy spirit God became conscious.

Genesis 1:1-2, This is an introduction of what they'll be writing about next. this took millions of years. Space was full of minerals & gases. The water they discribe is the moving space, & it's rotation.

1:3-4, God created consciousness, & saw it was good. Or, created our sun, but no other stars, & began earth's rotation.

1:6-8, must start after the minerals & gasses created a large rock covered in ice, that will become earth. The firmament created a covering of liquid water, by "air pressure" melting the ice. With evaporation the water was separated into clouds & our atmosphere was born.

1:9-10, while the waters evaporated, land began to show.

1:11-13, our sun must have made the seed grow.

1:14, God gathers the light, separating it from darkness. Stars were born, & some died creating black holes, heaven. open minded Christianity, also known as spiritualism, doesn't believe "God works in 'mysterious' ways". That's reserved for the closed minded & the religious, that believe their way, their translation, & their church is the only, way, translation, or church, that has it right. Spirituality, comes with open eyes, minds, & hearts, so there is no mystery, we're open to all explanations, & possibilities.

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

you are way off topic for this debate. If you want to discuss your existence-out-of-nothingness god of evolutionary forces, you need to make your own discussion or debate.

This discussion is about the necessity and veracity of Hell. Aparently, your belief system avoids discussing your continuation of existence with God in heaven or without Him in Hell. If you cannot discuss these things, please refrain from posting things like you have done here which are unrelated to the topic.

Relate your discussion to the topic, tie it in somehow please

I have asked a few others to do the same when they posted things going off on tangents which are uncalled for and not part of the discussion here. I'm trying to draw you in to reply directly to the topic of the debate or one side or the other. If you won't focus on the topic, I'll have to ban you to be fair to others I have asked the same of.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Basically, this argument is saying that you believe you are better than God because you have the right to rule over Him and make Him into what you want Him to be, rather than Him having the right to rule against you and leave you in Hell.

Your imagination is flawed in that God was never alone being God, He is love and always was the object and originator of His love. He is God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, three persons in one God. He was never "suspended in darkness", there is no darkness in Him. He was never conscious of nothing but darkness, he was never "a singularity". You are trying to make yourself into something better and smarter and stronger than God, by changing Him into something that can be contained in your own imagination.

God is not going to allow you to replace Him with yourself, or with His Creation, or with anybody or anything else. You are following a false light, the devil, Satan, who disguises himself as an angel of light. You are loving being deceived, and the loving God is letting you have what you want even though he knows it's going to take you to Hell if you won't repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Ok, so you imagine God is not God the Creator of all, the all-knowing all-powerful, and all-present Living God who made you in Him image. You believe you are better than God, and you can make God into something that you can wrap your mind around so you are bigger than Him. I guess you just have to enjoy being suspended in darkness as long as you can keep yourself out of the fire of Hell.

Side: There is no Hell
0 points

Ok, go ahead and prove it. How long will it be before you have the proof? Will you be able to show me the evidence? If you can bring back nothingness from death, then you have proof for everybody that Hell is not there and nothingness is reality and not only in your mind.

Side: Watch me prove it.
2 points

Why are you banning debators who write good debates and get points from other debators?? I find this disturbing.. This shows that you cannot stand up for yourself and hence you ban them! Coward.. I know you are gonna ban me now so you mine as well do it.

Side: There is no Hell
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Um, excuse me Mr. Clown, you might want to read some of what I thought was pretty good back and forth here with Piratedog and others. Even Cartman is bordering on entering into intelligent discussion on the topic.

It also might interest you that it's me giving most points to the debators here. I think points are kinda silly, you can have all of mine...in fact, I'm giving you one now.

If you want to discuss the topic, why don't you do it instead of sit there whining and begging me to ban you for doing nothing but whining? Quit being disturbed. God wants you to be whole and have peace from Him which passes understanding. God is offering you a peace agreement between you and Him now if you will quit whining and start listening to Him. He's trying to get you saved from Hell.

The people I banned were mostly just whining and insulting exactly like you are doing here. Pirateelfdog is the only one I recall who has actually put up something resembling adult conversation for debating. He made a good example here, showing you up as the coward in this topic.

Why don't you argue the topic with me so I can try to convince you that you deserve to burn in Hell the same as me and you can be forgiven by God and saved from it the same as me? You are the coward. Put up your argument in the debate or shut up your whining please.

After this, I certainly will ban you if that's all you want and your twisted mind makes you think you scored a point by getting me to ban you....put up or shut up, post an argument in the debate or quit your crybaby whining

Side: Watch me prove it.
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Seems to me that you are the coward since you made no effort to discuss the topic of the debate.

Side: Watch me prove it.
0 points

The rich man and Lazarus .... Luke 16:19-31 ..

a testimony of one surprised to be in Hell ...

http://www.gty.org/MediaPlayer/sermons/42-212 ...

full context = http://dadmansabode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=122#p122 ... enjoy

Side: Watch me prove it.
-2 points