CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
Judaism is a religion and its followers are called Jews, you completely unreasonable twit.
Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of European women. See:-
New evidence from mitochondrial DNA, which is passed on exclusively from mother to child, suggests that female ancestors of most modern Ashkenazi Jews converted to Judaism in the north Mediterranean around 2,000 years ago and later in west and central Europe
This is just my complete and utter ignorance on DNA and the subject but....I had assumed Judaism was a religion? How would it show in your DNA that you are a Jew, short of location markers?
Sorry again I'm just completely ignorant on this subject and was curious.
This is just my complete and utter ignorance on DNA and the subject but....I had assumed Judaism was a religion?
It isn't your ignorance, Minty. You are one hundred percent correct. I've been trying to explain it to him for three days but he simply refuses to be reasoned with. There are black Jews, white Jews, Asian Jews and even Eskimo Jews. You or I could become Jewish tomorrow if we wanted.
Ex-Con is just completely stupid and unreasonable. It's as simple as that.
Hi Mint, it's a subject which a lot of people get confused by so there's no need to feel ignorant about it.
Whilst yes, Judaism is a religion, it's also a lot deeper than that. The Jewish people are what's known as an "ethnoreligious group" which essentially means that their ethnicity is defined by a combination of both heritage and DNA, and a common faith between Jews.
However, this does not mean that you need to be simultaneously ethnically Jewish and religiously Jewish to be a Jew.
People are often confused because, yes, it's true that anyone can convert to Judaism, follow its teachings and be considered "Jewish". However, whilst that person may be a Jew in the religious sense, they are not descended from Jewish ancestors such as the Israelites, or... the Ashkenazi Jews.
Equally, one doesn't need to actually follow the religion of their heritage to be considered Jewish. It's literally a part of your DNA whether you follow scripture or not. Excon might even partake in traditionally Jewish holidays and celebrations despite not being religious, like how I still celebrate Christmas and Easter despite not being a Christian.
Fun yet disturbing fact: Hitler actually had the gestapo measure people's noses to find out if they were Jewish or not. Isn't one of the main signifiers of an ethnicity common physical traits?
If you're still curious, Wikipedia can probably explain it better than I can:
Thank you, I appreciate the information. I was looking up Ashkenazi Jews online and have a better understanding of the reasons it was showing that, I think I got hung up on the word Jew and didn't broaden my mind on it. I'll read up some more on what you sent. :D
So it actually says Jewish and not any other region like Balkan and Nigerian? That's interesting, I wouldn't think DNA would have much to do with religions affiliation.
I'm NOT fudging.. I'm THREE things: 97% Ashkenazi Jewish, and the rest is Balken and Nigerian.... My family tree goes back to Eastern Europe, so that's probably where the Balken comes from.. Where the Nigerian comes from - who knows?? Maybe Uncle Sol was schtupping the help.
But, we KNOW Jews didn't originate in Eastern Europe. Specifically where we came from BEFORE Europe, I have no idea..
But, as unpopular as it may be amongst some of our members, what's clear is that Jews ARE a race, or an ethnicity, or a creed.. I dunno what you wanna call it, but whatever it is, it's gonna piss off some of our members. Contrary to what's been ventured, Jews did NOT intermarry. In the main, Jews don't intermarry today. Why would we think they did then?? I believe my DNA is proof of that.
I'd truly like to know the answers, but from people who KNOW about this stuff - NOT from people with an agenda..
Oh I'm not saying that your fudging, I genuinely do not know about the history of Judaism or much of what goes into it. It would be interesting to know about it from someone who practices (I believe you said you didn't practice the religion but I don't recall) and is devout to it.
Ahhhh... I'm getting it now.. I'm talking about SCIENCE, and you're talking about RELIGION.. Of course there's a disconnect.. Right wingers, such as yourself, don't BELIEVE in science...
It would be interesting to know about it from someone who practices and is devout to it.
If you want to know the truth about judaism you have to ask someone who doesn't believe in it, because judaism isn't true. If you just blindly believe everything in the Torah and the Talmud chances are you have no idea what the real history is.
Why would I ask some who doesn't practice it what the practices are? I can get information from varying sources sure, but I'd rather get knowledge about the culture/religion from someone who is fully immersed in it.
What conclusions I come to after what knowledge I gain are my own.
You said you wanted to know the history, the real history isn't what the jews are going to tell you. If you want to know the origin of hinduism should you trust a hindu when they tell you some theological clusterfuck of insanity?
It's like if I want to learn how to grow produce, am I going to talk to a farmer or am I going to talk to someone who just buys their veggies at the market?
They both are going to have valid opinions but the actual experience is going to be from the farmer.
Why would I ask some who doesn't practice it what the practices are?
Hello again, Mint:
Because how someone PRACTICES their religion doesn't show up on a DNA test.. If it did, since I don't practice it, mine would NOT have come back that I'm a Jew. I'm also certain that every single one of my Jewish ancestors practiced their Judaism differently than I did. None of those differences show up on a DNA test..
That's why I said it isn't about religion.. DNA isn't about religion..
Perhaps I misunderstood, I thought you had said you'd gotten a DNA test that said you were Jewish. If this isn't the case then my apologies. I was curious how DNA would relate to religion and was only following that branch.
Perhaps I misunderstood, I thought you had said you'd gotten a DNA test that said you were Jewish
Hello again, Mint:
You didn't misunderstand anything.. I paid $50 for a DNA test.. It came back saying I was 97% Ashkenazi Jewish, a little bit Balken and a little bit Nigerian..
This whole thread is about being curious as to WHY the DNA said I was Jewish... I think the answer lies in SCIENCE, not religion.
On the one hand, I got a DNA test that I paid for..
I literally must have explained to you ten times that being Jewish has absolutely nothing to do with your DNA. I'm not doing it again you stupid fucking prick. You literally are the most stupid person I have yet spoken to on this site. You are a nasty little liar who throws completely false accusations at people who have done nothing more than attempt to correct your misunderstanding of your own heritage. How fucking dare you call me a Jew hater?
Fuck off, you stupid, lying, senile old bastard. Why don't you die already and do us all a favour?
I literally must have explained to you ten times that being Jewish has absolutely nothing to do with your DNA
Hello again, science denier:
I dunno what's so hard to understand.. On the one hand, I got DNA PROVING my Jewishness. And, on the other I got a Jew hater..
Clearly, I've obviously kicked your ass once more, because when I do, you go insane with hatred.. This is more insane than usual, and that must mean I kicked your butt unbelievably hard..
Let's try this another way... I think we can all agree that there's no such thing as a religious gene.. Your genome doesn't know if you're a Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim or even an atheist. Besides, as somebody said, you can become a Jew tomorrow if you want and an atheist after that.. Your genome doesn't KNOW how you worship or IF you worship... Therefore, it follows that your religion, or lack thereof, wouldn't show up on a DNA test...
So, when MY DNA test says I'm Ashkenazi Jewish, it's NOT recognizing any kind of religious gene. We agree there ain't no such thing. But, it IS recognizing SOME genetic marker that Ashkenazi Jews have in common..
What IS it??? Is it race, color, the size of your nose, a creed, a voting block, an ethnicity, a country of origin, a tribe, a shared history???? What would you call it? Or, there simply is NO it, and I'm making things up..
Hitler said (and there’s plenty of historical data to support) “Jew is a group who believe they are superior to gentiles/goyum, etc.”. Hitler never attributed any DNA concept to Jews - it was totally an ideaology. Hitler even believed that modern Jews are really FAKES! The real lineage was sabotaged along the way while they ROAMED areound like homeless Gypses.
And their are modern people born in Jew families that realize that Zionism is wrong and they are “good Jews”. Lol
First of all I’d like to say that nobody else other than Religious people care about this crap.
Second I believe that if religion was abolished, even though you’d have a lot of cry babies, we’d probly have all these problems licked in under 10 years, but I’m sure that would make too much sense.
Third, all humans currently on earth can be said to have a universal concestor in the past. So, logically every human descended from that concestor is a human, not a Jew. Judaism is a religion that humans invented about 2500 years ago to combat social problems and help prevent future enslavement of persons by making the information pervasive and available.
I mean, we could always just say "jew" is a made up label that really doesn't exist outside of identity politics. I mean really, are any two jews alike? Doesn't seem very precise.
