You busted nothing, little girl. Pride goes before a fall. .

Not going to lie. Epicurus made some valid points back in the day.(the dispute)

(the support) I don't think you debunked the philosophical thinking that questions the thinking inside the box by thinking inside it. One thing I notice about Christians is that they don't ever, EVER think outside the box. Literally, the box is the bible and that's what they live in. While there may or may not be a god, I don't know if there is but, I digress. If there is a god I believe his word would be what comes natural to everyone. A lot of which is just chemical responses. that being said, chemicals makes up all matter. Long post short the universe is just one long ass book that will eventually come to a close. Quite spectacularly I may add and if you look deep down to what suffering really is you'd know it doesn't actually exist. Leprosy for example leaves many nerves in the body obsolete. They can bang, twist, turn and disfigure their body and not feel a thing. Emotional suffering is much the same way. It can be turned off. Although, that's not exactly the best option for people. Suffering is a necessary evil.

Free will: the ability of agents to make choices unconstrained by certain factors.

Knowing everything doesnt impede free will. You know everything. The people still do what they choose. You just made that up.

Still cant seem to find that dictionary huh? Lemme help: http://www.merriam-webster.com/

FREE WILL:

1

: voluntary choice or decision

2

: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

God created humans with full knowledge of everything they are going to ever do in the history of forever and since nothing occurs without his putting it into action then not only is he aware that these things will happen he in face caused them in the first place. This clearly is divine intervention of the highest degree and therefore contradicts the above definition.

Look at it like this. A software designer is coming up with a game with characters in it. He knows what he wants the characters to do in the game before he makes it. So he designs the game and makes it. Now in the game, the characters can be controlled to do pretty much anything possible, however, the game designer put it all into place so the people in the game really dont have free will. This is just like God creating humanity. Its not a perfect analogy but it gets the point across.

I didnt make it up. Your bible did.

Adam and Eve apparently had free will according to the bible and they had no idea what good and evil were until they ate from the tree

1) EEERRRRRRRRRNT! Wrong. They did not have free will. see above.

2) Exactly. They didnt know what right and wrong were so how can you punish or even blame them for doing so! And so harshly that you need to trash humanity forever? God threw the mother of all temper tantrums over his own spilled milk.

When Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden everything was “very good” (Genesis 1:31). They had the freedom to eat of “of every tree of the garden” (2:16), but were forbidden to eat of the fruit of one of them (2:17). They knew of God’s good creation and they knew that if they ate of “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (the one forbidden tree), God said they would die (3:2-3). However, it was not until after they ate of the forbidden tree that they actually “knew” (experienced) evil. Thus, in one sense Adam and Eve did know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil (they knew what they should and should not do; they understood moral distinctions), but they did not know of good and evil experientially until after their disobedience.

My above argument still stands...why did you make your arguments bold and mine not? wierd flip. And i just wanna point out that death didnt exist until AFTER they ate from the tree as it was one of their punishments so how is the threat of death a threat to people who dont know what that means?

This is only a figure of speech. Pharaoh hardened his own heart not God. Would you like me to explain why?

Yeah its a figure of speech for changing phoarohs mind dispite his wishes to let them out of Egypt! This is so obvious! In the story God knows pharaoh will let the jews out of egypt but for whatever reason god hardens pharoahs heart and makes him NOT let them out. Dont even make an excuse for this blatant action.

And also lets not forget the tower of babel where God changes all the peoples languages to prevent them from using their "free will" to build a tower.

God wouldn't break his own law

Thou shalt not murder...floods earth. It doesnt matter if this is for humanity or not. He made the law and broke it.

And it doesnt matter what you think he would or wouldnt do. Its what he CAN and CANT do. And if an omnipotent being cant do something then they are not omnipotent.

Again, would you like me to explain why this isn't an act of God?

no actually im not looking for a fucking pathetic excuse for a literal action.

No. You decide. You choose to do evil. God doesn't make you

Gods omniscience and omnipotence refute this. See my argument above for the hundreth time.

Human's, well Satan, brought evil into it's full existence. God doesn't choose for you. You choose to do whatever you want.

1) see above for the 101st time.

2) God created Satan knowing full well what he would do so really its Gods doing. Take another analogy:

If i take a puppy and i know that he will eat a steak if i give it to him, and i take that puppy and put it in a room with a steak and the puppy eats the steak is it the puppys fault or mine? Mine of course! i was basically asking for it and KNEW it would happen! and yet i did it anyways.

He basically raped? No he didn't. Again, knowing isn't acting no matter how much you know.

Thank you i agree. Now explain why it is apparently a crime for a man to look with lust on a woman as if he has already commited adultery?

Mass murder and Genocide? Can I see the verses so I may explain them?

THE EARTH FLOODING. MOSES COMMANDING THE ISREALITES TO MURDER EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD IN THE CAMP. EVERY FIRST BORN IN EGYPT DYING. Need i say more? Seriously dont waste your time looking like a dumbass making excuses for these because theyre unjustifiable no matter what.

That doesn't make sense. God punishes you for your sin

And he made it a sin to not accept and love him

G2g see a movie. ill be back later to destroy the rest of your stupid arguments.

Okay im back to dispute the rest of ur argument. Btw i highly recommend World War Z that movie was insanely intense.

Why can't I use wiki? I am sure they know what they are talking about. I have studied both sides. I have wiki as one of my bookmarks. You didn't understand the big stuff so I thought little things may work. I have viewed the counter arguments. There is always something missing

You can use wiki sometimes but only if you can back up that information from a legitimate site. I know you did this and quoted another site but the problem is you werent siting just any information you were siting a definition of a word. When you site a definition of a word you absolutely must site a legitimate dictionary otherwise the definition you use is worthless no matter if it came from wikipedia or any other site.

So the book of Revelation doesn't exist now, which tells us about what he plans to do. He still is bound by it

The things in revelation were "fullfilled" in the New Testament and some werent even fullfilled. And anyway those things are prophecies of events, not how hes going to act over a given length of time. For example it prophesizes the coming of Jesus but doesnt say anything like "from now on i will never do A, B, C"

And even if something is in revelations God, in his omnipotence, should absolutely not be bound by it! And the bible even shows an example of this because Jesus says before he ascends into heaven that he will be back within the lifetimes of his disciples and that never happened so God wasnt bound by that prophecy.

I know. I meant that as a more general question but the wording was off. I could have done a bit more

That's fine as long as you know we atheists dont actually ask god for anything. We only talk about him in a hypothetical sense.

Like I told you, it does. You wouldn't know because you don't know everything about our religion. Neither do I, but I know enough

Please, i know plenty about your religion and ive asked other christians the same questions ive asked you and never have i had a problem with somebody refusing to answer them.

Really? Name an instance were God didn't give someone or a group of people a chance to redeem themselves

When Moses descended from Mt. Saianai (spell fail) and found his people worshipping a false idol and he was told by God to have them all slaughtered. They never got a chance.

And even Adam and Eve werent given another chance because as soon as they ate the fruit God threw a fit and kicked them out!

Adam and Eve did the one of the worst things. Yet God let them live on. They got kicked out of the garden so they won't eat from the tree of life.

Adam and Eve did exactly what God planned for them to do. And even if he didnt plan for it he made humans as curious as they are and put a forbidden tree in the middle of the garden as reverse psychology on them. What did he think would happen?

And God letting them live is not giving them a chance to redeem themselves and return to the garden.

God gave them 120 years to change their ways. They ignored it. They just blew it off. God was giving them mercy and they just blew it off

Change their ways of doing what? Eating fruit? Thats all they did wrong. Not to mention the 10 commandments dont exist yet so how do they know what to do and not do? And if God is all knowing then he knew that they wouldnt "redeem themselves" after 120 years so why did he wait that entire time? Makes no sense.

He didn't make the sinner. He made everything perfect

He made man with a foreskin that he would later not want them to have. how is that perfect? And if God is perfect and everything else is perfect then is god really perfect anymore?

And God made the criteria for sin. What is sin and not sin. Then he made humans with sin as part of their very nature. So yes, he made the sinner.

Everybody had free will. The people that gave birth to that future sinner made that specific sinner. Not God. God did infact send people to go CORRECT them. Like I said before, Noah preached for 120 years. That 120 years of God trying to CORRECT their ways. They denied it. Also I don't know if their is a measurement for sin. God may know what the human limit is. I honestly can't answer that

1) free will doesnt exist for the 102nd time

2) one 100+ year old man was to change the minds of over a few million people. Great plan that will totally work.

3) I would deny one extremely old man babbling about unsupported claims as well. God didnt exactly give very convincing proof.

4) None of this ever happened

It had everything to do with God and my religion

If a man is hanging from a cliffside and you can save him but the man doesnt love you do you save him or not?

I dont see any religious terms in that question. All this comes down to is you know that when you answer the question youll have to deal with me tearing your religion another new asshole so instead you pussy foot away from it.

Why is it not? If you choose to believe something that means you made a choice

But you dont choose to believe anything. Thats the thing. You can say you choose to believe in God or not but that isnt actually true. Your brain simply accepts the claims of religion and mine does not. If belief is a choice why cant you choose to re-believe in santa clause? because your brain is convinced that he is not real based on substantial evidence against him and until it is presented with substantial evidence that he IS real you will continue to disbelieve.

No. It would be the way I said it. You just don't want to accept it

Because it isnt accurate. I could say the same thing to you.

Actually a few Christians here and there do. People don't listen to us. I assert things for clearing us false accusations and when we clear one up it becomes an excuse. Don't respond to that

No you dont! You assert that you know unknowable knowledge every time you assert a biblical claim as truth. Theres no way to test for God in an infallible way so we cant know if he is true or not. The only honest answer is "i dont know". You instead assert "i KNOW that a, b, c is true" when nobody on Earth knows those things for certain. You CAN say "i dont know but i THINK a, b, c" but thats as close you can get without being dishonest.

You claim logic, but you can't understand rhetoric of the bible and just remain a word for word person

I understand rhetoric when its there. And when it isnt there it is literal and should be handled as such. I understand when certain stories in the bible are metaphorical and i dont assert they are literal (even though some claim they are) however i also understand when stories are meant to be taken as true.

It follows just fine.

No it actually doesnt. Theres a paradox, contradiction, or untruth on almost ever page of the bible.

You just make a statement and people agree and if you are a Christian then only Christians agree. It's just war

Yup but that wont stop me from arguing my position

Well here is what I will do. I will "shut up and go away". I don't know your second question. I may have missed it. I will use my free will to "go away"

1) You didnt do this because i just got another response from you.

2) my second hypothetical was:

A man is hanging off a cliffside and you can rescue him, however, you know that this man doesnt love you and in fact might even hate you. Knowing this, do you save him yes or no?

3) If God id omniscient then he knew you were going to "go away" and created you knowing you would do that therfore putting it into place. So you didnt actually freely choose that.

The burden of proof is on you, and the proof is in Romans 9.