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Debate Info

39
30
because it's a religion because you can't
Debate Score:69
Arguments:78
Total Votes:109
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 because it's a religion (29)
 
 because you can't (22)

Debate Creator

Canibus(77) pic



If Jew is a race, then why can I convert to being a Jew?

because it's a religion

Side Score: 39
VS.

because you can't

Side Score: 30

If Jew is a race, then why can I convert to being a Jew?

You do understand that Jew was a race...before it was a religion.....

You do understand that you could have simply looked it up, and found an answer simple enough for a toddler to understand?....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

Side: because it's a religion
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
0 points

You do understand that Jew was a race...before it was a religion.....

This is retarded even for you. How was Jew "a race" before the concepts of race or racial classification were even invented? You're literally making up complete bullshit.

You do understand that you could have simply looked it up, and found an answer simple enough for a toddler to understand?....

But you didn't "look it up", did you?

Genetic markers cannot determine Jewish descent

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301023/

Side: because you can't

Jew has no definite genetic or biological definition. Jew is a religion and a ethnic group that believes they are better than “gentile”!which they call Goyum.

Jews believe they will one day rule the earth and they will reign over these “lowly people.

Even Hitler specifically denounce genetic aspect of Jews. Hitler simply knew this group called Jews would abstractly enslave us with Usury and complex money changing

Side: because it's a religion
TheNotorious(8) Clarified
0 points

Jew has no definite genetic or biological definition. Jew is a religion and a ethnic group that believes they are better than “gentile”!which they call Goyum.

Yes, but it's important to stipulate what you mean by ethnic group. They share a religion and language, but being Jewish is not determined by your genetics.

Jews believe they will one day rule the earth and they will reign over these “lowly people.

Many of them deserve the reputation they have, sure.

Side: because it's a religion
1 point

It is a Religion and a Race.

There is the Jewish race, and the Religion of Judaism.

Side: because it's a religion

"Jew" refers to both the race and the religion. You can't convert to ethnic Jew, but you can convert to religious Jew.

Side: because it's a religion
WankJuicer(43) Clarified
1 point

"Jew" refers to both the race and the religion. You can't convert to ethnic Jew, but you can convert to religious Jew.

The Jewish race where the Hebrews. Hebrews invented Judaism so that they could claim they are superior and matter more than everyone else because they are "God's chosen people". Nowadays we have white atheists who claim they are semitic Jews because there ancestors converted to a religion which was created by an extinct group of middle eastern tribes.

Side: because it's a religion
themadgadfly(899) Clarified
1 point

What's your point? Jew is still a race as well as a religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Side: because it's a religion
AlofRI(3160) Banned
0 points

Jews an inferior race?? I remember a few years ago a study came out that showed 80+% of our best actors, singers, instrumentalists, comedians, were "Jews". They are certainly NOT an inferior race. I wonder how many are millionaires?, Doctors, scientists, educators, judges. Again, Hitler was wrong, and the KKK, and White Supremacists …. the "good guys on the other side" and HE who supports them, ALL wrong!!

Side: because it's a religion
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
3 points

Jews an inferior race?? I remember a few years ago a study came out that showed 80+% of our best actors, singers, instrumentalists, comedians, were "Jews".

Jews represent 2 percent of the population, so if you honestly think having 80 percent of the most successful entertainers is explainable by sheer coincidence then shame on you. Jews are the most powerful cult the world has ever known, which is frankly well illustrated by the fact they can convince you they are a biological race.

If you want to go full red pill on the matter then there is NO EVIDENCE the ancient tribes of Israel ever left Israel in the first place. The only actual source for this myth which is assumed de facto to be true by pretty much everybody in America is Biblical scripture.

Side: because you can't

I have had thoughts that maybe Hitler was right (at least short of murder). The Jews invented Usury and Capitalism- which raw capitalism is really an abstract form of slavery especially given the way the IMF works. Some Jews just live off the country’s interest they must pay for the privilege to use this money which is really NOTHING but a trick.

Anyway, I am at least “suspicious “ of Jews. But you can’t even examine any part of Hitler history without being thrown in the fascist bin.

Side: because you can't
-1 points

Delete | Block

Canibus said:

You like to eat fermented whale testicle stew while you plot world domination with your zionist jew cabal and rape kittens with screwdrivers and worship satan and tickle your own prostate with a macaroni noodle

Hello hater:

In your PM, I see that you acknowledge I'm Jewish.. If you can't say that publicly, I'll say it for you.. Your hatred for the Jews can no longer be denied either..

excon

Side: because it's a religion
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
2 points

Hello hater:

In your PM, I see that you acknowledge I'm Jewish.

Omg, you are quite literally delusional, aren't you? It simply doesn't matter what extent of proof is shoved into your idiotic little face, you will continue to ignore it all and then claim everybody else is ignoring the proof. You are a LYING LITTLE RETARD.

DNA ancestry tests branded 'meaningless'

Commercial DNA tests that claim to tell people whether they are related to Richard III or descended from the Vikings are no more than "genetic astrology", scientists have warned.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9912822/DNA-ancestry-tests-branded-meaningless.html

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Side: because you can't
-2 points
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
1 point

According to DNA evidence, Jews are BOTH a religion and a race..

This statement is demonstrably false to the point that it is retarded. There is not, nor has there ever been, a Jewish race.

Genetic markers cannot determine Jewish descent

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301023/

Side: because you can't
Gibby_Prime(38) Disputed
0 points

There is not, nor has there ever been, a Jewish race.

You can be both ethnically Jewish and part of the Jewish religion.

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.5220113

Side: because it's a religion
excon(14600) Disputed
-2 points
4 points

I think you can actually , it’s an interesting question .

I got this piece from Judaism101 ......

In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.

But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung).

Side: because you can't
Mint_tea(4349) Clarified
2 points

I also thought the same, so when someone posted they were Jewish as declared by a DNA test my first thought was, no way. But I did some research on Ashkenazi Jews and it seems like there is enough evidence and genetic distinction to where they are actually one. It was quite interesting to read.

Side: because it's a religion
Dermot(5796) Clarified
1 point

Hi Mint I’ve also done research here is the piece I posted from the excellent Skeptoid site .....

I came across this excellent piece in Skeptoid it’s lenghty but most Illuminating ....

Regards the DNA testing I was just curious how anyone can definitively say one is Jewish through such a test , what is the difference in the DNA of one claiming to be Jewish ?

Can a DNA test clear up questions you may have about your heritage? If so how? In television advertisements, these companies show a person who talks about his family's German ancestry, how devout he was towards his family traditions including lederhosen dancing (Schuhplattler). But when he learns that his DNA indicates his ancestry is Scottish rather than German, he eagerly replaces his lederhosen with a Scottish tartan kilt.

There are many problems here for me. I am certain that this is a stylized advertisement—not an actual person. But family traditions like lederhosen dancing exist apart from a DNA test. Culture is learned and has nothing to do with your genetics. The whole idea that someone can learn who they really are through genetics is, in my opinion, nonsense. I find the whole idea that DNA markers are a superior method to determine ancestry slightly racist, similar to the idea that "blood" is paramount. Furthermore, I agree with a 2007 article in the journal Science, about ancestry DNA testing, in which the authors write:

"Because race has such profound social, political and economic consequences, we should be wary of allowing the concept to be redefined in a way that obscures its historical roots and disconnects from its cultural and socioeconomic context. The article recommends that the American Society of Human Genetics and other genetic and anthropological associations develop policy statements that make clear the limitations and potential dangers of genetic ancestry testing. Among the potentially problematic byproducts of widespread genetic ancestry testing: questionable claims of membership to Native American tribes for financial or other benefits; patients asking doctors to take ancestry tests into consideration when making medical decisions; and skewed census data due to people changing ethnicity on government forms. Moreover, many Americans are emotionally invested in finding an ancestral homeland, and thus vulnerable to a test that can produce mixed results at best and false leads at worse. 'This search for a homeland is particularly poignant for African Americans, who hope to recapture a history stolen by slavery.'"

All of the major companies advertising this form of ancestry-related DNA testing use autosomal DNA tests. The companies don't exactly promote the accuracy of the test, but tend to give the impression that it is the path to your true heritage. It takes a little searching, but you can find a disclosure that accurately shows the companies' beliefs about the usefulness of their tests. For example, ancestry.com writes:

"Your AncestryDNA� results include information about your ethnicity across 26 regions/ethnicities and identifies potential relatives through DNA matching to others who have taken the AncestryDNA test. Your results are a great starting point for more family history research, ?and it can also be a way to dig even deeper into the research you've already done."

That is a far less rosy answer than the advertising leads you to believe. Admixture DNA testing is a valid test—not a sham—but the results are complicated and very limited. It examines non-sex chromosomes inherited from both parents and identifies chromosomes that contain DNA segments from all ancestors. To a limited extent, this test can track the geographical movements of ancestors by examining single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), some of which influence traits such as skin color and resistance to regional diseases. Using that information there are patterns of human genetic diversity which could be weakly correlated with racial and ethnic categories. Those are, in turn, partially correlated with geography. However the same SNPs may be found among several populations around the world, and thus can produce false leads. The companies use the ancestry markers to show genetic differences between what are assumed to be four biologically distinct populations: Africans, Europeans, East Asians, and Native Americans.

Even the language shows some major flaws for this type of test—i.e. weakly correlated, partially correlated, and assumed-distinct populations. And this isn't the only problem in using these tests for discovering ancestry. The results rely on a database of samples to correlate these findings. You need a comparison to a known DNA marker to know that your genetic markers are associated with a certain region. Genetic matching depends largely on the number of samples in a company's database. The researchers published in Science wrote:

"Even databases with 10,000 to 20,000 samples may fail to capture the full array of human genetic diversity in a particular population or region.

The team also pointed out that research into this type of testing has shown inherent flaws, with the writers noting:

"Dark-skinned East Africans might be omitted from the AIMS reference panel of 'Africans' because they exhibit different gene variants."

This means that a certain sizable African populations (the most genetically diverse region on the planet) may not fit in the African marker group, despite being from Africa, appearing to share the same outward traits as other Africans in the database, and having a shared cultural heritage. Such a risk of failure makes this test dubious.

Others have have rolled out mitochondrial DNA testing, which is more problematic. Because such tests analyze less than 1 percent of a person's genome, they will miss most of a person's relatives. If you take a mitochondrial DNA test, you learn something about your mother's ancestry. It leaves out completely your father's ancestry. Plus, if you go back as little as 10 generations, that test is telling you something about only one ancestor out of more than a thousand from that part of your family tree.

Overall DNA tests fail because they cannot account for recent migrations of peoples from their ancient homelands. Present-day patterns of residence are rarely identical to what existed in the past, and social groups have changed over time, in both name and composition. The relation between genetic and cultural heritage is unbelievably murky given current world wide mixing of populations. And, as noted before, these tests don't actually tell you anything about who you are. If you're adopted by an Italian family, raised from birth as Italian, and will die believing you're Italian, how does a DNA test change that? What right does a DNA test have to steal your legacy and tell your great, great, great grandchildren that they are in fact Swedish? None at all. Ancestry is a legacy, not a bloodline.

Side: because it's a religion
Dermot(5796) Clarified
1 point

Hi Mint I’ve also done research here is the piece I posted from the excellent Skeptoid site .....

I came across this excellent piece in Skeptoid it’s lenghty but most Illuminating ....

Regards the DNA testing I was just curious how anyone can definitively say one is Jewish through such a test , what is the difference in the DNA of one claiming to be Jewish ?

Can a DNA test clear up questions you may have about your heritage? If so how? In television advertisements, these companies show a person who talks about his family's German ancestry, how devout he was towards his family traditions including lederhosen dancing (Schuhplattler). But when he learns that his DNA indicates his ancestry is Scottish rather than German, he eagerly replaces his lederhosen with a Scottish tartan kilt.

There are many problems here for me. I am certain that this is a stylized advertisement—not an actual person. But family traditions like lederhosen dancing exist apart from a DNA test. Culture is learned and has nothing to do with your genetics. The whole idea that someone can learn who they really are through genetics is, in my opinion, nonsense. I find the whole idea that DNA markers are a superior method to determine ancestry slightly racist, similar to the idea that "blood" is paramount. Furthermore, I agree with a 2007 article in the journal Science, about ancestry DNA testing, in which the authors write:

"Because race has such profound social, political and economic consequences, we should be wary of allowing the concept to be redefined in a way that obscures its historical roots and disconnects from its cultural and socioeconomic context. The article recommends that the American Society of Human Genetics and other genetic and anthropological associations develop policy statements that make clear the limitations and potential dangers of genetic ancestry testing. Among the potentially problematic byproducts of widespread genetic ancestry testing: questionable claims of membership to Native American tribes for financial or other benefits; patients asking doctors to take ancestry tests into consideration when making medical decisions; and skewed census data due to people changing ethnicity on government forms. Moreover, many Americans are emotionally invested in finding an ancestral homeland, and thus vulnerable to a test that can produce mixed results at best and false leads at worse. 'This search for a homeland is particularly poignant for African Americans, who hope to recapture a history stolen by slavery.'"

All of the major companies advertising this form of ancestry-related DNA testing use autosomal DNA tests. The companies don't exactly promote the accuracy of the test, but tend to give the impression that it is the path to your true heritage. It takes a little searching, but you can find a disclosure that accurately shows the companies' beliefs about the usefulness of their tests. For example, ancestry.com writes:

"Your AncestryDNA� results include information about your ethnicity across 26 regions/ethnicities and identifies potential relatives through DNA matching to others who have taken the AncestryDNA test. Your results are a great starting point for more family history research, ?and it can also be a way to dig even deeper into the research you've already done."

That is a far less rosy answer than the advertising leads you to believe. Admixture DNA testing is a valid test—not a sham—but the results are complicated and very limited. It examines non-sex chromosomes inherited from both parents and identifies chromosomes that contain DNA segments from all ancestors. To a limited extent, this test can track the geographical movements of ancestors by examining single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), some of which influence traits such as skin color and resistance to regional diseases. Using that information there are patterns of human genetic diversity which could be weakly correlated with racial and ethnic categories. Those are, in turn, partially correlated with geography. However the same SNPs may be found among several populations around the world, and thus can produce false leads. The companies use the ancestry markers to show genetic differences between what are assumed to be four biologically distinct populations: Africans, Europeans, East Asians, and Native Americans.

Even the language shows some major flaws for this type of test—i.e. weakly correlated, partially correlated, and assumed-distinct populations. And this isn't the only problem in using these tests for discovering ancestry. The results rely on a database of samples to correlate these findings. You need a comparison to a known DNA marker to know that your genetic markers are associated with a certain region. Genetic matching depends largely on the number of samples in a company's database. The researchers published in Science wrote:

"Even databases with 10,000 to 20,000 samples may fail to capture the full array of human genetic diversity in a particular population or region.

The team also pointed out that research into this type of testing has shown inherent flaws, with the writers noting:

"Dark-skinned East Africans might be omitted from the AIMS reference panel of 'Africans' because they exhibit different gene variants."

This means that a certain sizable African populations (the most genetically diverse region on the planet) may not fit in the African marker group, despite being from Africa, appearing to share the same outward traits as other Africans in the database, and having a shared cultural heritage. Such a risk of failure makes this test dubious.

Others have have rolled out mitochondrial DNA testing, which is more problematic. Because such tests analyze less than 1 percent of a person's genome, they will miss most of a person's relatives. If you take a mitochondrial DNA test, you learn something about your mother's ancestry. It leaves out completely your father's ancestry. Plus, if you go back as little as 10 generations, that test is telling you something about only one ancestor out of more than a thousand from that part of your family tree.

Overall DNA tests fail because they cannot account for recent migrations of peoples from their ancient homelands. Present-day patterns of residence are rarely identical to what existed in the past, and social groups have changed over time, in both name and composition. The relation between genetic and cultural heritage is unbelievably murky given current world wide mixing of populations. And, as noted before, these tests don't actually tell you anything about who you are. If you're adopted by an Italian family, raised from birth as Italian, and will die believing you're Italian, how does a DNA test change that? What right does a DNA test have to steal your legacy and tell your great, great, great grandchildren that they are in fact Swedish? None at all. Ancestry is a legacy, not a bloodline.

Side: because it's a religion
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
0 points

In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws

The United States Supreme Court also ruled that corporations have the same rights as people. If Jews were actually a race, then the scientific evidence would speak for itself. The courts would not need to be involved, period. The prosecution of legal action implies heavily that the scientific evidence does not speak for itself and that groups of Jewish lawyers have instead pressured the legal system to give themselves a false status.

Side: because it's a religion
excon(14600) Disputed
-2 points
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
0 points

I was ONE of those Jews who rejected the notion that we were a race

So let me get this straight you impossibly dishonest little liar. You, an atheist, whose only claim to being Jewish is a religiously biased DNA test conducted by Israeli Jews, were previously a Jew even though you rejected the only thing which you claim makes you Jewish???? You are literally just making this up aren't you? I have honestly never met anybody so dishonest and so stupid in my entire life. You simply refuse point blank to acknowledge the science which proves you are not Jewish. I keep repeatedly posting it and you keep repeatedly ignoring it.

But, that was BEFORE DNA.

What, you were born before DNA? That's impressive. Even more impressive is how you can continue to knowingly repeat the lie that your DNA test proves you are Jewish, when the facts clearly stipulate that it does no such thing:-

Genetic markers cannot determine Jewish descent

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301023/

Hence, either the peer-reviewed industry journal Frontiers in Genetics is lying, or YOU are lying. I don't think there are going to be too many arguments about which it is. Or perhaps the geneticists involved in this journal are "SCIENCE DENIERS" and "ANTI SEMITES" too, correct?

You've seen my DNA test, right

You have been told HUNDREDS of times that your DNA test was for genetic markers which the website, because of its own ideological bias and out-of-date research, concluded makes you Jewish. DNA doesn't test for words you deceitful little prick, so before your DNA test became your DNA results, a human looked at the data and concluded he/she was going to use the word "Jew". That use of the word "Jew" is DEMONSTRABLY ERRONEOUS, because the genetic markers which were found belong to Greeks and Iranians with no biological connection to the ancient tribes of Israel.

You literally, LITERALLY are pissing all over science and claiming anybody who disagrees with you is a science denier. Put simply, you're a fucking piece of shit liar and a retard. If this were the first, or even the seventh time the science had been explained to you then fair enough. But you come here EVERY SINGLE DAY and LIE YOUR FACE OFF when confronted by the facts. You're like a retarded little child who sticks his fingers in his ears and just screams DNA over and over and over again, while his intellectual superiors patiently try to explain his mistakes.

Piss off you unreasonable little shit.

Side: because you can't
BoneMaster(-17) Disputed
1 point

No evidence? Here's your evidence

That is not evidence, retard. That is a link to a religious website which calls itself the Christian Research Institute. The opinion of Christians about whether their own religion is real is "evidence" only to the most stupid and childish of minds.

I suspect that you replied to the wrong post, too. If this was a response to my claim that there is no evidence Abraham lived then even the Jewish press admits this:-

Archaeology has not been able to find the Patriarch Abraham, or signs of his heirs. There is no evidence that the Children of Israel ever went to Egypt, or fled it in the Exodus.

https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-is-the-bible-a-true-story-latest-archaeological-finds-yield-surprises-1.5626647

Absolutely no evidence of anything. Both the Christian and the Jewish religions are based on a total pack of lies.

Side: because it's a religion
Grugore(849) Disputed
1 point

Archaeology has never contradicted the Bible. That's good enough for me.

Side: because you can't
Mint_tea(4349) Clarified
1 point

There is actually a really interesting magazine called Biblical Archaeology that's a fascinating read. They lean more scientific with archaeological findings in religion so it's rather neat to see how the bible and archaeology meet up.

Side: because it's a religion
-1 points

A Jew is a descendant of Abraham. And not all, or even most of them, obey God. End of discussion

Side: because you can't
TheNotorious(8) Disputed
1 point

A Jew is a descendant of Abraham.

There is NO EVIDENCE that Abraham even existed you retarded imbecilic twit.

And not all, or even most of them, obey God.

That is because certain Jews have used their influence within the communities of which they are a part to proliferate the myth that Jewishness is a genetic trait instead of a religion. It is no wonder then that today we see people who think they can be both Jewish and atheist at the same time.

Your ignorance on this matter is startling. STARTLING.

Side: because it's a religion