If abortion was a number.
An adult woman should be able to abort her pregnancy whenever the hell she wants. Be it in the fourth week or the thirtieth week. Her body and life are her own damn business and certainly not the concern of some fat white rich misogynist politicians in Washington DC. The same ones who will do nothing to help her raise the kid and will even probably pass legislation some day to make it harder on poor mothers who use social assistance programs.
Absolutely correct, such a decision should be left to the discretion of the expecting mother with a little consideration given to her partner's opinion. In countries where anti abortion legislation exists many women are forced to use ''back street'' abortionists with all the immediate and long term dangers this involves. If the female survives the butchery of amateur surgeons she will almost certainly develop serious medical conditions in later life such as damage to the bladder where scar tissue will form causing lesions which in turn can become cancerous. All because the self righteous morons cannot accept that the pregnant mother is the only one who should have the final decision. Many international bodies including the W.H.O., have called on the Vatican to relax it's preachings on abortion in light of the Zika disease which affects the brain development of unborn babies, and, which according to this body, is expected to spiral to between 2 and 3 million.
From Genesis -
Curses enmity between woman and serpent
Seed against Seed
The woman in Revelations dragon tries to devour her children, unsuccessful he goes to war against the rest of her seed
1st murder - immediately serpent murders seed Abel
Then murder babies in Egypt, Moses spared
Then murder babies in Bethlehem, God hides Jesus in Egypt
Serpent even crafter now, he murders Seed before even born
Wake up, the Word of God is no lie!
God is pouring out wrath, wake up! The world doesn't belong in the temple of God!
38 And the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, Ethiopia and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer with all its troops; Beth-togarmah from the remote parts of the north with all its troops—many peoples with you.
7 “Be prepared, and prepare yourself, you and all your companies that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them. 9 You will go up, you will come like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land, you and all your troops, and many peoples with you.”
10 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan, 11 and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates, 12 to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world.’ 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish with all its villages will say to you, ‘Have you come to capture spoil? Have you assembled your company to seize plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to capture great spoil?’”’
14 “Therefore prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “On that day when My people Israel are living securely, will you not know it? 15 You will come from your place out of the remote parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly and a mighty army; 16 and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog.”
17 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them? 18 It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” declares the Lord God, “that My fury will mount up in My anger. 19 In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. 23 I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the Lord.”’
An adult woman should be able to abort her pregnancy whenever the hell she wants. Be it in the fourth week or the thirtieth week. Her body and life are her own damn business
I agree, but there is more to it than that, and it is important to expand on your statement.
Certainly ALL people should own our own meat, whether that be to tattoo it, ingest drugs, commit suicide, etc., or have abortions.
That ownership includes both rights and responsibilities. While I have the right to do anything to my body I want, I have the responsibility to pay for that without imposing the consequences or costs on anybody else. (I own my house, so I get to decide who can come in, and I am the one who has to pay for its upkeep and repair.)
At the point of viability, the fetus owns its own meat, too. It does not, however have any rights to the woman's/mother's meat.
Therefore, sensible discussions of the issue revolve around balancing the rights of the mother with those of the fetus (post viability), and balancing the rights of the woman with her responsibilities.
- 1 - I absolutely agree that the Mother has the right to an abortion at ANY point during the pregnancy for ANY reason.
- 2 - If the fetus is viable, (now the medical cutoff is 20 weeks) it must be delivered with care and protection of its life. That means a 20-week (or later) abortion must be a live birth, and the kid must get all the NICU care available. The viable fetus must be protected from those who would steal its ownership of its own meat.
- 3 - The responsibilities that correlate with rights of woman's choice mean that the cost of the abortion and any post abortion care are the responsibilities of the woman, NOT the state and its taxpayers.
You notice I left out the father, because he has no rights whatsoever to decide yes or no on the abortion. It is not his body or his choice, so the cost of an abortion he has no say in is not his bill to pay.
By contrast were the child to go full term, the father and mother (NOT the taxpayers) would be equally responsible for the costs of the birth because the birth is the natural result of the sex they both had.
Whoever wants to retain (or adopt) rights to the kid, must also accept all responsibilities for the kid from that point on.
Her body and life are her own damn business and certainly not the concern of some fat white rich misogynist politicians in Washington DC. The same ones who will do nothing to help her raise the kid and will even probably pass legislation some day to make it harder on poor mothers who use social assistance programs.
The result of connecting rights with their attendant responsibilities is that it supports the woman's rights, and removes any valid argument for meddling by uninvolved third parties (the state religious groups, sometimes the father) by removing them from the field of responsibility.
Use of the social programs is what validates the government's meddling in the lives of those who access the programs.
Personal accountability and personal responsibility (taking care of yourself, cleaning up your own messes, and paying ALL your own bills) are the ONLY paths to freedom.
The use of a foreign legislation to act as foundation of basic representation was a shortfall to the abilities of woman in general to form a united states on their own behalf before United States Constitution. Sorry, Girl Power the world no longer has time to wait for a criminal stall. A clear and present danger has been created by this demonstration of lack ability. There is only one way abortion can be described publicly as legal. It is religious one, as a woman may always carry this liberty with her, even as she can be seen overcoming the burdens of human guilt, as she alone does not understand all events that may have place or had transpired against her, in the natural formation of new human life.
A woman’s commitment to United States Constitution was put to public test, it was at no point ever in any way her test alone. No repetitive introduction to Civil War acting as instigation to global conflict would have suggested Female Specific Amputation as the foundation of resolution to a single United State to be shared by all woman. Pushing instead a foreign, unconstitutional, self-righteous view, and self-incriminating criminal confession publicly asking for consensus not joint unity, asking for public forgiveness, or public permission to organize murder not unity.
As a man who has witness the harm unleashed on many woman, and not one woman in general. Let me make this clear as possible, as people together can find cause, as woman, you have been in given written grievance of officially dismissal in the matter of Constitutional United states Representation. Your effort by its lack of Constitution is officially aborted.
You are wrong.
By mandate of the Supreme Court of the United States and Roe v Wade, abortion IS a right. All of it. The right of a woman to choose what to do with her own damn body, and her right not to be forced to have kids if she doesn't want to.
You sound confused. On one hand you call yourself Liberal, and then you say you are a moderate on abortion. And that moderates only believe in abortion when the mother's life is endangered?
This is total bullshit. A "moderate" on abortion would be more along the lines of wanting to allow 1st trimester abortions only.
Whereas, your stance on abortions only being allowed to save the mother's life is a right-wing Conservative stance. Maybe that of a Moderate Republican.
A "moderate on abortion" would be somebody who is in favor of Pro Choice, but who would maybe place a time limit (1st or 2nd Trimester) on that choice.
Or they might stipulate the mother has to be an adult, or have parental or legal guardian consent. Or they might limit the number of abortions a woman could have.
But your view of Abortions only to save the mom's life is much further to the Right than Moderate.
Also, I notices you have backed down on your liberal views quite a bit over the past couple of months, as the criticism here on this site has increased in ferocity against you. If you sincerely have undergone a change in your political views, fine, but I hope you are not capitulating simply to curry favor or to make friends.
This is cowardly. And shows no integrity. And will make others respect you even less. The people who command respect are those that stand up for their views. Despite heavy criticism. People like Saintnow and FromWithin. Even though I almost always disagree with them, they are passionate in their views and they have zeal.
I advise you not to compromise your views. For anybody. I am thinking you are very young. So take this as some advice.
Oh...BTW...I am Pro Choice all the way. Though I am Conservative in most of my other political views. I guess this is why I am an Independent, as there are a few issues I side with the Dems on. though, not many.
Yeah, I know...right?
I am beginning to see why you guys find her so frustrating.
And now she's is becoming an ass-kisser to try and make friends. Or at least not be hated as much. Little does she know..........that's worse.
She actually said "rock on" to somebody just for agreeing with here.
I am thinking two things about her: very, very young. And perhaps mentally unbalanced.
For reasons already stated by me I would chose option 2. Abortions should automatically be available where the pregnancy is a consequence of rape, incest or where it can be identified the embryo will be stillborn, where the birth will result in the certain death of the mother, or simply when the mother-to-be wishes to abort the pregnancy. No one else has the right to try to force their sanctimonious misguided morals onto others.
I don't think abortion is good. It means losing a life another child. Abortion may be good because of rape and all the others, but wouldn't it be better if you donated the egg to someone who wants a child so badly but couldn't? Or give away the child instead of making it lose it's like?
Fine sentiments but impractical and assumes a lot. For instance you're assuming that there would be between two or three million mothers willing to be impregnated ( World Health Organization's figures, not mine.) with the eggs of an embryo which had the Zika brain damaging disease for which there is no known cure. You're also assuming that all the mothers-to-be who are unwilling to continue with pregnancy would wish to go through the gruelling procedure of having the egg removed. Also, who would be paying for your proposed surgical operations? Just accept that whatever the world needs now it is not an increase in population, especially by unwanted babies that would have to be cared for at the expense of the taxpayer in countries where welfare benefits are available, or to die a painful and lingering death from starvation and disease in nations where such luxuries do not exist.
29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.” 37 And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”
1. You shouldn't instantly factor out the child here. I'm fine with abortion, as long as it's in the early stages of pregnancy. If you wait 8 months, and then say you want an abortion, is a definite no-go. You can't just wait until the fetus has already developed into a baby. But if you decide to have an abortion, it should be the woman's choice. The father of the child gets a say, but in the end, the mother should decide. The fetus is in her womb after all.