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If abortion was illegal, should it still be legal for rape?
*I am aware that abortion is not illegal. Keyword in the title would be -If-.
I have never been able to comprehend the idea / opinion that some abortion is okay, and some is not.
If you believe that a fetus is living human with the right to live, then it is a living human no matter what, right? Regardless of whether the mother was raped or not - if you think abortion is murder, then isn't it murder in all circumstances?
If you do not believe that it is is a human being, and you think abortion is not murder if the mother is raped, then it's also not murder if the mother just chose not to use a condom / contraception. So if you think abortion should be legal for rape victims, then you have NO right to say it shouldn't be legal for someone who just failed to use contraception. You might not like the decision they made, you might not agree with it - but if it's acceptable in the first scenario, it's acceptable in ALL scenarios.
If it's murder, then it's always murder. If it isn't murder, then it's never murder. I can't understand the opinion of picking and choosing what an "acceptable" circumstance is. There is NO grey line.
because abortion being illegal is about as useful as making masterbation illegal,
both are impossible to impose,
and both kill an equal number of potential little lives,
actually masterbation kills way more if you're a dude, but I'm not here for semantics... this time.
So at the very least making it legal in the case of rape (yeah, we all knew what you meant, funny wording though) there's an opening for some future logical debate on the topic.
Of course you would just have hordes of chicks describing mythical rape seens in dark alleys just to get the procedure.
And yet again, not a single abortion would have been stopped.
Damn thats a good point, I never thought about it that way. If abortion was illegal it would just have women revert to the old ways IE close hangers. Or women would just say they were raped to get an abortion in the end it would be terrible for the feds to make abortion illegal, also I think it should be women deciding this not men. If women were trying to tell us men not to masturbate what would we tell them?
Friday, post your argument as an argument rather than the debate description, so people can Favor/Opppose and Vote Up/Down.
If you want to call all abortion murder, then fine, it's all murder. So are executions, euthanasia, and stepping on snails. If a fetus is undeveloped enough to not even have consciousness, then killing it is just fine by me. The world's overpopulated enough as it is. The people who want to abort their child but can't-- how well do you think they'll treat it once it's alive?
Not to mention the fact that those who are barred from getting an abortion will just go and find a place to get one anyway. Usually somewhere far less safe than a hospital. The war on abortion is just as misguided as the war on drugs for this reason.
I agree with the statement about how abortion would just keep occuring in extremely unsafe conditions, nonetheless.
But I do feel that -most- people who believe abortion is murder believe that because they feel like it is crushing the ability / chance for life, which I don't necessarily agree with, because couldn't you say that condoms are crushing the "chance" for life as well? Mhm. The arguement makes zero sense to me.
At the point of conception, what really is the difference? Infact, the snail is more alive than a fetus. If you're talking purely about potential then what's the difference between ovulating and a very early term abortion? Both kill something that isn't yet life but has the potential to be life.
This whole abortion argument really centres around at what state a ball of cells suddenly takes on the magical label of "human life."
just because human life is most helpless and unaware at that point in life (early stages after conception), that doesn't mean you have the right to kill it.
"because abortion being illegal is about as useful as making masterbation illegal,"
This is not the same case, there is no life forming when you are doing your own thing as compared to the life that takes place after the conception. A gamete would still remain a gamete if there's no union that occur. We are talking here about the formed life and not the "half-life" that you suggest. In that case we're all be murderers of little life.
Yes, but now I have dillema for all you "you're a murderer if you abort!"
Assume (but these situations really do occur) that a lady is 7 months pregnant. She goes to the doctor from pain in her belly and wants to be assured everything is OK. She finds out she has a serious complication that in which, she has to make a decision: a) wait at least another month hoping she can last that long so the baby can be born (prematurely, but hopefully alive enough to survive) and she dies, guaranteed, or b) abort the child for her life. Which one should she pick? If she picks b) does that mean she's a selfish bitch and a "murderer" just because she wanted to live longer for, probably, her children she already has, her husband, and because letting her child have her life without his mother would suck just as much itself? (Even though, in most of these cases, the mother will pick option a0 and the husband will try to talk her out of it).
So, sure, you can call abortion murder as much as you all want, but it's getting really out of hand. For someone to make a wise and rational decision of aborting a fetus for whatever their reason, takes a lot more guts than you'll ever think. Also to mention, to put the word "Murder" up there is just REALLY low. I mean, you're making all these women feel like they should probably commit suicide by having a murder label on them. It's harsh.
Alas, what if we gave an eldery person a drug so they could finally pass away upon their wishes? I'm sure that would be in the same category as "Murder" yet, a lot of people are fighting for something like this to be legal itself (it's only legal with doctor consent in Oregon).
So, really, I don't think abortion is murder, nor do I think it is a selfish, I think all of you calling it murder and selfish are selfish.
i most def. think that it should be still legal for those who have been raped. These girls would have been raped and then have a new situation they also have to deal with along with the rape, and that could be stressful. For those of you that says that the reason for it to not be legal is cause its murder, it technically is not murder because if someone is raped and then find out they are pregnate would be in such a short time spand that the baby would not even be an embryo yet. there are those situations where it is an embryo but it had no human connection what so ever. it has never created memories or even knows what is going on, so if it were to be killed by abortion i feel as if it would not really matter.
Up to a certain point, yes. I really despise all abortions that aren't performed for the mother's health, but rape is a little bit different. And even then, I would only want the abortion to be performed up to a month, maybe two, after the rape.
I completely agree to your point I don't think abortion should be illegal let alone if you had been raped I know what it's like and I would rather die than have the baby of that man
What the fuck is your problem god didn't give you that baby Satan did abd the man that raped you. Not only do you have to keep that thing in you for nine months a reminder of what happend to you when you so desperately want to forget. Even if you give it up for adoption if one day it comes looking for you how could you possibly care about it or even begin to explain why you can't possibly care about the child your child
No, because there are emergency contraceptives that women can take up to 72 hours once she was raped that would prevent the sperm from going into her egg.
There are cases where she could not get to emergency contraceptives within 72 hours. For example, maybe she was drugged and the drugs were so strong/she was so sensitive that she was not coherent for longer than 72 hours afterwards.
no, every person that is meant to be brought into this world or if theres a living thing inside you it must have a reason god gave it a reason to be there, dont think oh god wanted me to be rapped no maybe god jsut thought this child belonged to you thats what i think im 15 yrs old and i think everything in the world has a reason to live.
We are talking about legality, so we're talking about laws. Therefore the word god should not even appear anywhere in your argument, let alone be the main point.
Your view on the legality is based on your personal view. And some personal views are based on religious beliefs. Therefore this reasoning for making abortion illegal is completely justified.
Your "God" is irrelevant to the argument. And maybe I will take you more seriously if you learn how to spell and use correct grammar so your sentences actually make sense.
the reason i have chosen against this argument of abortion being murder in the case of incest or rape is because, you have stated that rape of a women is exactly the same as having sex without a condom. This is completely false, she has not chosen to have sex with the man who raped her, she has not chosen that she did not want to use protection. a women who chooses with someone she is planning to have sex with is at fault for getting pregnant. Those are two completely different scenarios and i am appalled that you would come the least bit close to saying that it is the womens fault for getting pregnant in a situation she did not choose, how dare you! If you were raped and got pregnant would you want the baby of the man who torments your every nightmare to be growing inside you, to further remind you of the horrific thing that happened to you.
Rape is horrible action, but murder is worse and abortion is murder. Punishing the baby for what some wacko did is wrong. I do not mean to offend anyone but some women might lie about getting raped so they can get rid of a baby. It would be really complicated.
You can not get fired for being pregnant. I think that abortion in any context is wrong even in rape. The woman should not punish the baby the rapist should be held financially responsible. He should have his money allocated the mother.
You can't get fired just for being pregnant, but you can't really work in your third trimester, and not all jobs allow for maternal leaves of absence.
That's really disgusting that you think a woman should have to bear the bastard offspring of her rapist. If that's what you think, there is nothing I can do to convince you.
Well I think abortion is disgusting. Abortion can lead to problems that are far worse than rape, like infections of the uterus and sterilization. There is also a risk of hemorrhaging.
If they catch him they can clear out his bank account and give to the woman he raped an impregnated. Plus, it was just an idea that I through out there I never said it was flawless.
The point is that these things are never flawless. In fact they are life shattering for the woman. Being raped alone can ruin a woman, I couldn't imagine having to actually carry that baby. The thing is, you don't know what it's like psychologically, so you don't know what you're doing or who you're hurting by supporting this view.
She can get fired or problems with her job or school/college if the woman or girl is enrolled. (because as long as she is fertile, it is possible for her to be impregnated- there have been cases of thirteen year old girls. Whom you would think should bear her rapists' child, yes? Whom you would have suffer more and possibly die attempting to abort it illegally?)
Have you ever heard of PTSD? Many who are raped suffer from this. If she is forced to have the forced child of their rapist, she may be reminded of her rapist from the child's face, and thus may suffer flashbacks and have to avoid the child in some part, causing damages to both child and mother.
Abortion will happen illegally anyway, as it has in history, which resulted in many deaths of women and girls.
And a consequence of making it illegal for rape would be that rape would be the end-all for women in general.
Also, in the case where a pregnant girl is having complications from the pregnancy, where both the child-to-be and her life is at risk, and medical treatment for the complications involves a chance of abortion, in which, if there was an abortion ban, would not immediately go through because of debate whether it's okay- would you say that it would still be justified to ban abortion entirely? [Asking your opinion on the case of the pregnant Dominican girl who died along with her unborn child because denied treatment due to an abortion ban]
While it may technically be alive from the moment of conception, it is irrelevant. I doubt you think life itself is sacred and should never be killed, because, and this may be an unreasonable assumption, you've probably washed your hands before and killed thousands of bacteria. I think human life is important, not sacred, but important. And some human lives are more important than others. Given the choice between saving a young, healthy child, and an old dying man, I would have to choose the child. The fact of that matter is that for most of the pregnancy, the fetus is not really a human. For a long time it is essentially just a ball of cells. It takes many months for it to be organized to the point where it truly is a human. The reason that I think abortion should be legal, especially in the case of rape, is that I believe that the choice of the mother, the health of the mother, and the happiness of the mother are more important than the right to live of a little ball of cells. That's all this decision is, a balance of rights.
Here are all the rights doing battle: The right of the mother to choose what happens to her body, the right of the mother to be healthy because pregnancies can be dangerous, the right of the mother to not have to go through the emotional stress of giving birth and having a child, and the right of the baby to live. I will agree that at a certain point in time, the right of the baby to live supersedes the mother's rights. I don't believe it is okay to kill your child the day before it would be born, it can live and think on it's own, it is a human. But for about the first two trimesters, it isn't even aware of it's own existence and it is a very simple organism totally incapable of homeostasis and during this time period, the mother's rights are more important.
If you think that the rights of a ball of a few dozen cells are more important than the right of a living adult to happiness, health, and choice, then you can have your opinion and I can have mine, no one is wrong or right. I just hope you can understand that when you say no abortion at any time under any circumstances, you are saying that the rights of a tiny clump of cells are greater than the rights of a fully grown, fully sentient human.
"If you think that the rights of a ball of a few dozen cells are more important than the right of a living adult to happiness, health, and choice, then you can have your opinion and I can have mine, no one is wrong or right. I just hope you can understand that when you say no abortion at any time under any circumstances, you are saying that the rights of a tiny clump of cells are greater than the rights of a fully grown, fully sentient human."
At one point you were "a tiny clump of cells" too. I am Catholic and I believe that all human life is sacred whether it is one day old baby or an 80 year old man. I am going to stick with what i believe because I think it is right. If killing babies makes a person happy then they should be put in an asylum.
"I am Catholic and I believe that all human life is sacred whether it is one day old baby or an 80 year old man."
Okay first of all we are talking about laws so your religion is irrelevant don't even say the words Catholic, god, or sacred in a debate about laws or you are automatically incorrect.
Just bear with me for a moment I see I have to hold your hand to get you see this.
I understand you think life is really important. I agree. But let's play along with this hypothetical situation just for a moment. You are a fire fighter. You are in a burning building and you have evacuated everyone but an 80 year old feeble man and a child. You are the last fire fighter in the building and the building is moments from coming down. You know you cannot come back for a second trip. Do you choose to save one and leave the other to die?
"I understand you think life is really important. I agree. But let's play along with this hypothetical situation just for a moment. You are a fire fighter. You are in a burning building and you have evacuated everyone but an 80 year old feeble man and a child. You are the last fire fighter in the building and the building is moments from coming down. You know you cannot come back for a second trip. Do you choose to save one and leave the other to die?"
It would depend, but Iwould be inclined to save the child because that is what the 80 year old man would most likely say.
Go ahead and assume that the old man is asking you to save him instead of the child. Clearly the old man will die in a few years, but the boy has his whole life ahead of him.
I would carry the old man while the old man carries the baby and I'll die trying saving them both.
the essence of life is not in who gets to live or who gets to die but the worth of each life both older and younger. you know what, ...it's that kind of line of thinking that brought about the the Holocaust and the killing of the lame, blind and old in Uganda and similar shameful acts around the world in different countries at different times in history when all kind of lunatic tyrants arose. nothing personal I'm just against that line of thinking. once you think one human is more important than the other when it comes to life and death, ...there is no stopping you. ...there is no limit to all kinds of wrong decisions you can make just to favor the strong and healthy and more intelligent and more able.
abortion is wrong. at the moment of conception that's human life at it's weakest point if just a ball of cells, .....if that's how you'd like to put it, ....like I said you don't have the right to kill a human life just because it's hardly human.
in case of rape, women are facing the hardest decisions and they need all our supports as much as we can give.
but if that unborn child could talk and was shown his/her case scenario in his/her conception do you think it will be even easier for him/her. rape is the most vile disgusting way to strip a woman of her dignity and I feel for them especially when the child is growing inside of them. but it's not more the less easier for the child too. he/she did not choose to come into the world through such an act and I think if he/she grows up and learns that's how she/he was conceived, she/he will feel humiliation probably for the rest of her life but never the less she/he will need support from understanding humans surrounding. rape is an act to be completely condemned and eliminated, but we shouldn't make rash decisions when more than two lives are involved. ....
"I would carry the old man while the old man carries the baby and I'll die trying saving them both."
I didn't say baby, I said child. And I stipulated that there is no way that you can save both, you can only save one or neither.
"you know what, ...it's that kind of line of thinking that brought about the the Holocaust and the killing of the lame, blind and old in Uganda and similar shameful acts around the world in different countries at different times in history when all kind of lunatic tyrants arose."
No it is not that line of that thinking that leads to genocides. I am not saying the old man does not deserve to live. But if only one of their lives can be saved, it is better to choose the child. It's just like if you did not have enough food to feed your two kids and one of them was sickly and most likely going to die and there is no way you can get more food.
A ball of cells is not a human at all. A rabbit would be closer to a human than a fetus. For most of the pregnancy the fetus is not even sentient. It does not even know it exists. It does not even have the capacity for suffering. The mother's right to choose what happens to her body is more important than the life of a ball of cells that is not even conscious.
Abortion should no be legal for rape victims. For one, people would use that as an excuse for getting rid of a child. Second, you can give the child up for adoption. If you don't want the child, somebody else is dying to have one.
Cause abortion has nothing to do with rape if it is rape that caused it then blame 'rape' and if rape is legal, some girls/boys may come home naked or what ever shit.Tourist popularity will go down no $$$ is equal low economy people will not feel safe visiting that country.
I dont think that this should be aloud. People are killing inocent babys because they got raped. I feel for them I do but you can not just kill a cute little baby because of the past. And think if you're mom would have had a abortion because she had gotten raped you would be hurt and upset so why should you do it. Also in the long run if you will give the child a chance you will learn to love it in the end. Thats why I say that you should not get an abbortion on any circum stance.
the baby shouldnt be killed just because the mother feels like it was wrongly made. the baby would have a full life ahead of it! why should the baby be punished because of one man?
killing the child wouldnt get rid of the emotional pain of the rape
but it would add the stress of KILLING an innocent child!
a child who would bring happiness to everyone around. even if it was the conceived child of a rapist
Don't you mean should it be legal for rape? rite? Simple no since that is just crazy talk, then we could make murder legal and try and help old people with euthanasia and not worry about consequences. =]
What the hell is uour problem how can you possibly fucking say that rape shouldn't be illegal do you know what it's fucking like to be raped it makes you want to kill yourself like nothing fucking matters
