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 If "faith" is sufficient, then why did Jesus perform miracles? (15)

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Argento(512) pic

If "faith" is sufficient, then why did Jesus perform miracles?

I have always been buffled by this contradiction.

As a Christian, your faith is supposed to be sufficient for you to believe. Jesus himself said "Blessed is he who has not seen and yet believes..." And yet the Bible shows him performing dozens of supernatural miracles.

As a second question:

All the people that believed very strongly in God, like Abraham, Moses, the 12 apostles of Jesus, and all the people that witnessed his powers, were subjected directly to the power of God by means of a supernatural revelation. One could argue that they would not have followed God's orders had He not showed them his Powers (by means of something supernatural).

So if everyone that TRULY believed in Him had some sort of visual evidence, why is it not OK for modern man to expect a revelation before he believes in God? Why do we have to make do with written scripture and "faith" alone?

Add New Argument

We don't! It depends on how you see the miracles that happen every day and all around you. Perhaps it's because people don't SEE who is responsible for those miracles and therefore chalk it up to modern medicine or fate of some kind. Surely we have all heard and seen things happen that there is no explanation for...and yet it happened. I chalk most of those up to God.

Side: To create believers having faith
1 point

I completely understand what you mean. However I do think there is a difference here.

There is a different between someone coming out of a coma in a hospital today, and Jesus walking on water and resurrecting a dead person 2000 years ago...

One is possible and can happen because of modern medicine, whereas the other is supernatural, it breaks the laws of nature.

Side: It's a contradiction to faith
1 point

More or less bends, the truth from those very old books could have been stretched and since they were written by men instead of 'god' who knows what kind of dazzle they could have put on them.

However, there isn't much difference between a man waking from a coma and a supposed resurrection, considering the tall tales we weave, I'm sure it was the same kind of event. Just a coma.

Please, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not defending Christianity; I'm just trying to add different viewpoints to the debate.

Side: You need faith
2 points

There is no contradiction. The bible describes Jesus performing miracles and it exhorts faith. There was purpose in the miracles e.g. water to wine because the wine had run out.

You cannot believe something incredible without some sort of evidence. If the bible presents enough evidence for your scepticism threshold then you'll believe. If it doesn't, it won't. We don't 'have to make do with written scripture [read: book] and 'faith' [read: lack of knowledge] alone'. We can simply reject the claims.

Side: No contradiction
Argento(512) Disputed
1 point

The bible describes Jesus performing miracles and it exhorts faith.

You cannot believe something incredible without some sort of evidence.

Well that's precisely my point. People truly believed him after he had performed some sort of supernatural miracle. They didn't have the Bible to read about the power of God. They witnessed it first hand. Even those that didn't believe witnessed it and then converted.

Nowadays we are told "you have to believe to see the miracles". And yet back then he performed those miracles for all to see. Believers and non-believers alike.

Don't you think the Bible has shot itself on the foot with this one?

On the one hand saying all you need is faith, on the other hand Jesus comes down and "proves" who he is thus eliminating the need for faith.

Side: It's a contradiction to faith
1 point

Well if you want to get technical, I could be in a car crash, not get scratched and suddenly it's a godsend and a miracle. People love to believe in anything they can like sheep. Horde around something and fight for it, without question.

As far as the miracle theory goes, when I see someone get surgery and live I thank the doctors. Some very religious person probably would thank god and call it a miracle. It's a reward for his faith.

As far as faith goes today, people just want you to assume that there is a god because of the events that Jesus had set in motion so long ago. Though, I'm sure if I got 'crucified' in some fashion for an ideal and made a big a deal about it as his followers did, I'd probably be idolized by at least somebody.

It's a shame that in order for a religion to advance into something else, someone has to die.

Though, to stop rambling and get to my point...

As much as it is ironic, you're just expected to believe. That's it. Maybe you'll get a freebie miracle, maybe not. There's no contradiction. Jesus was just doing some preliminary advertising, and now the world's hooked, so they don't expect anyone to need a miracle.

Side: No contradiction
1 point

There's only one way to explain it and it's really a very simple answer:

For kicks.

Side: For Kicks

Maybe those are the rules. Maybe that's the reward. If you believe, you get to see miracles being performed everywhere. Look at how different our planet is from every planet we've come to know. We may take it for granted but that's a miracle right there. The universe tells us that the odds are against us and yet... here we are ;)

Side: that's how it works
Argento(512) Disputed
1 point

Maybe those are the rules. Maybe that's the reward. If you believe, you get to see miracles being performed everywhere.

Well that's what we are told today, but when Jesus was here, the Bible says he performed supernatural miracles in front of everybody. Believers and Non-believers alike. So faith was not a prerequisite in order to witness his power. He showed you his power and therefore there was no question. You had evidence, you didn't need faith. The same goes for Abraham and Moses. God showed them the fireworks and from then on they followed his commands with no questions asked. But first they saw the evidence first hand.

Side: It's a contradiction to faith

But the problem now a days is that any sufficiently advanced technological civilization can make themselves appear as Gods. So seeing a high tech magic trick proves nothing. You need faith.

Side: You need faith
1 point

lol, really? of all the things in the bible that is what baffles you?

inherent inconsistancies in the bible number in the hundreds, I don't have the numbers with me, but anyone can google "bible inconsistancies" and see for themselves. Now talking about inconsistancies in the actual teachings, parables, sermons, etc... wow, it would be like watching deep space nine at a treck convention (hopefully I'm not the only one who gets that analogy ._. )

but playing the devil's advocate (wait, is that cliche ironic?)

one is asked to "have the faith of a child" specifically because the authors knew it would be cold day in hell (okay I'm done being ironic) when any of the sheep ever saw an actual miracle.

So then someone rebelious enough to ask "hey, where's my miracle!" could quickly be reprimanded, "the bible says not to ask for a miracle! blind faith! repent! repent heathen!"

of course many christians circumvent this no miracle clause of the bible by pretending to speak in tongues, playing with snakes, and blaming every god damn perfectly logical and explainable act of nature and chance on god. I mean, blind faith? are you kidding? personal jesuses don't have time for that, what with conversion quotas and all.

Really it's like an inconsistancy circle:

1. People in the Bible get miracles to believe, but we're not allowed to.

2. We'll just go around pretending every other thing is a miracle even though the bible says not to look for one.

3. If we get a failed miracle, revert to quote in Bible saying not to expect miracles.

4. When faith falters, read about all the miracles that really really must have happened in the Bible because the Bible says they happened in the Bible.

5. Back to going around pretending everything is a miracle... and so on.

While Bible inconsistancies are fun like in the way it's fun to tell that snot nosed kid at the roller rink there's no such thing as Santa because he skates better than you and you're a grown ass man damnit,

I prefer pointing out the inconsistancies of peoples' actual present faith. For instance this girl asked me to pray for her because she was having a minor surgery, and I told her prayer doesn't work, and she said I didn't know that, then I said okay then if it works I'm going to spend the time praying for the little kids in Africa because they're just little kids, and don't have the wonders of modern medicine to save them.

You see, either way, she wasn't worthy of my prayers.

Side: heathen