CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
There are only two reasons that people go to Hell.
1. People have done an incredible amount of evil in this life.
2. People that have died who chose they don't want anything to do with God, and so God grants them an eternity without Him because they chose not to follow Him. Plain and simple.
the result is the same after you've jumped from an airplane at 1000 feet w/out a parachute and splatting on the concrete ... the wages of sin is death ... how far and wide your splat extended is really beside the point
There are differing degrees of punishment in Hell. You are teaching people to hate God, so as a teacher you will receive an extra degree of punishment above a person who hates God but does not actively try to convince others that they should hate God....but Hell is still Hell, it's no place for people to be but that they chose anything except to be in God's presence and if that means they fry like eternal sausages in Hell, they are okay with that until they get into the fire and it's too late to seek God's mercy.
Not believing in god means you choose not to repent for your bad deeds and are choosing hell. even if you were a horrible person, "the heavens will rejoice more if 1 sinner repents than if 99 righteous people repent"
God has nothing to do with repenting. You can believe in God and not repent (most Christians) and you can repent for your sins without believing in God. Christians claim that not believing in God is another sin to repent for.
Though my views aren't exactly the same as his, there was nothing hard enough.
I'm an existentialist. (Somewhat.) So, you'll always be able to use your true free will either way.
Conditional free will would be merely what he used to define tyranny.
No, my definition would be more extreme than that. I'd call what he used here as an illusion of freedom, or soft tyranny.
The original debater used this crooked version of free will under tyranny to justify his view, expecting it to be settled. Not so much a contradiction as irrationality, but it can be called either.
I understand what you're saying. How I see a tyranny is a leader that doesn't even let you choose. Either do what I want or die. I think its an extreme example of showing that there are consequences for your actions. How I see it, with God, He is still presenting you with 2 options and letting you freely choose Him instead of forcing you to love Him against your will which would actually be tyrannical and wouldn't be love on your part. I think the point that the poster was trying to get across was that there are consequences for your actions. Its just this one is more obvious. You can freely chose either. And by freely choose, I mean that you're able to make a decision of your own free will without anyone's say so
I think something to add to this is that if you aren't going to want God now, you're not gonna want Him after you die either. Once you die, you'll stick with your decision to reject God for all eternity which makes Gods punishment just
Even if you had the opportunity to change the outcome before hand? I guess how I see it, every decision has consequences. How does having consequences for your actions make the person giving you the decision tyrannical? I mean I guess it kinda has already been answered, so I guess to rephrase the question, how does knowing whats gonna happen if you choose to make one over another decision make the person tyrannical?
I think my confusion lies in when you had stated that you didn't want to make a judgement for me. I don't think I see the relevance of that to what I had said. Would you be willing to clarify?
Except then I just go back to what I asked you before. What was it that I said that got you to think I wanted you to make that judgement for me? That question still has yet to be answered
It was another way of phrasing the question of whether or not you consider something to be bad. I never claimed that you or Dermot said that something was bad. What I said is separate from what you two said. Basically do you consider people getting a punishment that fits their crime a bad thing?
No. But I reason it differently than the decency criteria of 'badness'.
The punisher would be qualified for the purpose only if he is stronger than the punished. And then, it is his free choice whether he want to oppress or not.
The collective society, (in a democracy) being stronger than the criminal, can punish him as it sees fit. That isn't bad.
But it isn't fair if the things are not already known, but arbitrary.
I was asking you what it was you were referring to when you said that we don't know much about it. It wasn't specifically about the deity I believe in although if thats what you were talking about then I would ask you to show me what it is you think would make God a tyrant
I looked back and saw where you defined it. I think I agree with your statement that a person in authority making someone agree with them would make the authority a tyrant. However, the evidence shows that God is not like this. I believe I stated this earlier, but knowing the consequences of your decision before you make it wouldn't make the person giving you the decision a tyrant. I believe a tyrant wouldn't even let you make the decision let alone tell you what the consequences are if you don't choose right
I would probably say either real or assumed consequences depending on whether or not someone has actually tried to get away from the tyrant and failed. However, what I had stated previously still stands. However, I should have clarified it by saying that anyone that follows the tyrant out of fear of the consequences, real or imagined
Except that including Christianity, or really any religion, in that category without actually looking into it, the god or gods being worshipped can seem like tyrants on the surface and it can be argued that some are. However, once you go beneath the surface and do some research, you'll realize that not all of them are, especially the God of the Christian faith, which leads me to the question of how you came to the conclusion that you came to
I would disagree. I think going beneath the surface would be rational thing to do while staying at the surface would be for those feel-good zombies as you would call them. If the Hindu god is rational, I would think that an eternal punishment for the people who would eternally rebel against him would be the rational thing to do
What does omnipotence and omnipresence have to do with eternal rebellion? Either you're for God or you're against Him. Also, you're assuming that people would want to change their ways once they are in hell and have been there for any amount of time. I think I have said this earlier, if you aren't going to want God now, you aren't going to want Him in eternity
Because, well, torturing in hell stops any rebellion.
Except like I said earlier, you're assuming that people are going to want to change when they're in hell. You're also assuming that they'll have the option to change
It does, actually. Omnipotence implies all the other omni-things.
I think I see what you're saying now
Has? Constitutes of?
I was just asking cuz to me, it seemed like what you were saying is that we're almost like a jug that possesses it and it can't leave
Except like I said earlier, you're assuming that people are going to want to change when they're in hell. You're also assuming that they'll have the option to change
So, they won't be allowed to change? That qualifies as the tyranny.
I was just asking cuz to me, it seemed like what you were saying is that we're almost like a jug that possesses it and it can't leave
No, it was just that nothing could be against him, because nothing doesn't contain him as it'd violate his omnipotence. Thus, you can't rebel and go against him.
So, they won't be allowed to change? That qualifies as the tyranny.
Are people normally allowed to change the outcome of their decision after the outcome has already been fully realized? Will they have the desire to change the outcome at all?
I'm sure there is and I'm sure they're able to, but the questions still are there. Are people normally allowed to change the outcome of their decision after the outcome has already been fully realized? Will they have the desire to change the outcome at all?
So based off of that, wouldn't it follow that heaven would be hell to someone who didn't have the desire to be there? And with only one other place to go, wouldn't it then follow that they desire hell over heaven simply because they don't have the desire to be with God in heaven? What evidence do you have that the torture of hell would make them change their mind and want to change their ways so they could be with God when they never had the desire to be with Him in the first place?
Thats still a huge assumption. If they really are that willing to change, why didn't they when they had the chance to? Assuming an average life span, thats around 75-80 years at least. Also, what is the point of living this life and making that decision now if we are able to change our decision after we die?
No one said anything about 'waiting until it's too late', so I wonder what you are thinking with that.
No one "waits" to be tortured to change decisions. How many times do you make wrong decisions thinking that "I'll wait for it to go bad before I change it."? Should that mean that you not be allowed to change even the smallest thing in your life?
Thats a good question. I would say the reasons are more psychological. Some do it out of arrogance, some out of fear, and maybe some were convinced that it was actually the right thing to do and others are wrong. I remember hearing a story about a guy who was pretty high up in a company who started stealing money from the company. On the one hand, he knew that what he was doing was wrong but at the same time, if he stopped trying to hide it, he would be in serious trouble. I can't remember how long it went on, but I think you get the point. No ones saying you shouldn't be allowed to not make a decision no matter how small.
Except they won't. It sounds like based off of your previous comments that either we have the ability to change our decision after we die or God is a tyrant. If this is the case, why are you operating off of a false dichotomy?
The false dichotomy being that either God allows you to change your decision after the fact or He doesn't making Him a tyrant. As you have said, and I agree, you already told me why you think this so I will not ask you to repeat it. However, I do believe that I have adequately explained why what you believe is not what actually happens. This being a new argument on my part, I will do what I can to explain it as best I can. However I may probably repeat myself. The first option that has been stated was that one can change their decision after they die. Another option being that God doesn't allow people to change their decision after they die thus you using this as an argument to prove that He is a tyrant. However, the premise that God does not allow people to change their decision makes Him a tyrant is false, as is the premise that someone can change their decision after they die, although only to a certain extent. Here's what I mean. There is a saying that the doors of hell are locked on the inside which implies that the people who are in hell are in by choice and don't willingly choose to leave. The part where you can no longer change your decision comes in is once you die, you are stuck with whatever decision you made when you were alive. As I have stated before, there would be no point in living this life and making the decision to follow or not follow God if you were just going to be given the option to change your mind afterwards. We will only have one chance to change our minds and that is during this life. Out of love, God does not force people into heaven against their will. When people are in hell, the will have always evil continually and willingly rebel against God for eternity. As you have said earlier, people would want to change once they realized the predicament they were in. However, as I have stated, that was an assumption. The question then becomes, if you didn't want this outcome, why didn't you change it when you could instead of waiting until it was too late to do so? To be blunt, from my perspective, it seems like you are just trying to find a way out and find someone to shift the blame to when confronted with an option that you don't like instead of dealing with the reality that you need to be the one to change. Hope I have adequetely explained my part. If there is anything that you think needs more explanation feel free to ask
So based off that definition, wouldn't your entire argument not be based off of proper thinking?
Ok. I guess I misinterpreted what you meant. God does not force anyone into heaven against their will. If someone doesn't want to follow God, He won't make them, but He will try to make them change their mind
How so? I've stated several times that what you have said is based off of an assumption yet you've still repeated it. That and other replies you've made tells me that you're way of thinking is biased towards the belief that we can change our decision when we die. I know I have addressed that before. We both know that assumptions are unfounded assertions that do not belong in a debate
Ya I know what Omnipotence is. However, based off of your comment, it seems like you think that Gods omnipotence dictates what it is He should do and why He should do it. This is just what I think you are saying
It dictates what he can do. And that can easily affect what he should do. (It's boring to explain even that.)
No, nothing specific. If you can prove absolutely anything without taking any assumptions (except an infinite regress, which is an absurdity), then I'll agree here that God is benevolent for punishing those in hell that don't mindlessly follow him.
Yes, I claim that under all of religious theology, either of Christianity or Hinduism. Though that doesn't apply in Deism. Also, that'd be too irrelevant to need defence here.
How I came to that conclusion is entirely irrelevant. It matters little what individuals have to say about their religion - so little that anyone, including you, being concerned over it is surprising.
Except as I stated earlier, we both know that assumptions are unfounded assertions that don't belong on a debate website. They don't really belong anywhere actually
The only reason it seems complicated to you is because you are complicating yourself by trying prove you are as good as God and have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner. It seems complicated to you because you are confused and in your confusion you are proud, defiant toward God and losing your argument against Him as no argument against God can stand.
People go to Hell because they are sinners who in their pride will not seek God's mercy. It is not because they have done more evil than you or me. It is because they sinned against God and are not worthy to be in His presence.
Hell is symbolized by fire, which is more than a symbol; it's hot burning frying people like eternal sausages.
No, people go to Hell for not finding God's mercy, not for not looking for it. God doesn't show His mercy in reality, and people who realize this don't find His mercy even when they look for it.
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
The only people who ever find God's mercy weren't actually looking for it. For example, you never search for God's mercy and yet you claim to have found it.
You don't actually admit that you deserve to burn in Hell, so I am not really concerned with your view of God.
If God does not punish evil, He cannot be good. God is good, it is good to know evil does not go unpunished. It is good to know sin will be confined, consumed, and contained by Hell's fire and will never disrupt the harmony of Heaven again.
If you look at the basic argument all of these fools are trying to make against God, they are trying to prove that God is not good. That's always what all anti-Christ arguments boil down to. In reality the arguments are simple and childish. In the minds of fools the arguments they make are powerful as if by saying God cannot execute justice against them by leaving them in Hell they declare their independence and win freedom from Hell.
And remember, the evil brings the punishment on itself. Evil doers try to blame God for giving them the choice of doing evil, as if they are excused to be evil because God created them and allowed them to chose evil. Punishment is the natural consequence of evil in accordance with the nature of God which is good.
These people fight so hard against Hell because God made us all capable of recognizing the truth, and there is something in every cognitive being which recognizes the necessity of Hell to contain sin and separate it from being able to pollute creation. They know that if they cannot make Hell non-existent and if they cannot prove God is not good they are doomed to eternal condemnation in the fire of Hell.
They are making losing arguments and they are gambling everything they have and are against the reality of Hell and the goodness of God.
I always think that if I say things the right way, it will cause a light switch to flip in the minds of God's enemies so they can realize they can find mercy and know His love but the reality of the matter is that most people will remain in the dark. I cannot foresee like Christ did when He proclaimed to the faces of some of His enemies that they were children of Hell and of their father the devil, but the way these people talk I have to agree with them that they will have the reality they believe they are in now, the reality they want, void of any proof that God is good and that reality is in the fire of Hell. It doesn't have to be that way, they can be saved, but by their own words they wont' be saved and will wake up in Hell.
Who said suffering isn't bad? I mean I've heard the phrase "a little bit of suffering isn't bad" but that's not saying it isn't bad, period. Honestly I don't really agree with the saying either, I think it is bad, but in a weird way a little bit also helps you remember the good. When you take something for granted and it's taken away from you, you appreciate what you had.
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
I've told you before, my relationship with God is deeply personal. But hey, since you actually spoke to me I will use the opportunity to address some issues you raised in your last post.
Your relationship with God is fine with you, or fine with Him? How do you know it's not just wishful thinking?
How do you know God exists? Do you not feel it? You simply know, be it through experience or feeling and it doesn't matter who says what, in your heart you know the truth.
No I am not your judge, but I can judge the difference between truth and lies when I know the truth.
I'm going to try to say this without offending.....you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the backside. You have judged and condemned me, you have spouted lies about other beliefs and tried to convince yourself that a person is guilty through association. But having friends who are witches isn't the same as being a witch, and though I am proud to have them as friends I am not Pagan.
It may take some digging to get to the bottom of the lies so they can be exposed, but I stand on truth and you believe lies which suit your own feelings.
You stand on either untruths or outright lies. I don't know if your ignorance is intentional or innocent but I lean towards malicious when you gleefully condemn people, all people, who don't agree 100% with you.
How were you saved, and how do you know you are saved?
Again. Falls under the -you do not need to know- portion. Also, I firmly believe that I could tell you I had tea with Jesus while relaxing on the waters of the Dead Sea, and you still wouldn't believe me because I don't fit your own definition of what a Christian should be. There is nothing I could say that would convince you that you are wrong but that's ok. You are entitled to your own opinion; you don't have to believe me just like I don't have to waste my time trying to convince you.
Anyhoo, sorry to the original creator of this debate, I went a little off topic.
You don't have a relationship with God if you reject the Son of God as your Savior, the only God who can save you, the one who died for you to save you from Hell.
Your "deeply personal" fool-yourself relationship with God won't keep you out of Hell any more than it keeps you from dying.
That covers everything, you are rejecting God the Savior Jesus Christ so you can't be saved. If you will not repent of all your sin and believe God the Savior Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead to forgive all who put their trust in Him, believe on Him, and receive Him as their Savior you cannot be saved from Hell. You can pretend to be a smarty pants until you are blue in the face and you won't keep yourself out of Hell if God the Savior has not saved you from it.
You don't have a relationship with God if you reject the Son of God as your Savior, the only God who can save you, the one who died for you to save you from Hell.
My relationship with God is not your call to make nor is it your right to judge.
you are rejecting God the Savior Jesus Christ so you can't be saved.
I haven't rejected Him. I have, however, rejected you and your ridiculous persecution of everyone who isn't you.
.
I had written out a larger response to you but deleted it in an attempt to not have so many personal attacks, I don't know you or what you've gone through to make you this way but I hope you find peace.
.
Regardless, going back to my original post, I am not sure who said suffering isn't bad, I think a little makes you appreciate what you have but there is a difference between it being good/bad and maybe it being just the slightest bit necessary so nothing is taken for granted.
Suffering for me is always bad :) Hell is a ridiculous notion used to terrify the indoctrinated sheep that follow religions .
The Christian god as portrayed by religions is a divine dictator who demands humans use the brain he gave them , yet any rational thinker would dismiss the idea of a creator god because such a god who believers claim exists fullfills none of the criteria of existent things as in cannot be seen , heard or touched , yet exists .
For daring to use our mids rationally and dismissing supernatural entities as nonsense this merciful God would consign atheists to hell fire ...... luckily it's just a tall tale used to terrify the flock who in fairness are merely victims of indoctrination .
In India, the educated are rather casual about religion.
So I've not really had to be oppressed actively. If I were, I'd be seeing it as greater than it were, and nothing would pleasure me more than to see it burnt down to the ground, with its leaders at my mercy.
I've no problem with people being casual about their religion that's the way it should be , thankfully my country is totally different regards religion nowadays since the Catholic Church lost its stranglehold on the country and most couldn't give a fig whether people were believers or not
I get what you're saying but the problem is in my case my parents were only doing what everyone else did , many years ago my first exposure to religion was through parents then the church and then society in general , holy catholic Ireland was a different country when I was a kid and very few would admit to being atheist as the church was all powerful and one could suffer big time for admitting they were a non believer .
I realised in my teens it was all bullshit and became an opponent of all religions if one attempted to foist their views on me ; yes I was angry for a long time that this hoseshit was forced on me as it's incredibly damaging as one is made to feel bad and guilty about almost everything ; the relief when one finally sheds belief in this superstitious nonsense is immense .
I now see indoctrination as a form of child abuse .
I guess at the start I was really pissed off but it's peculiar at the time other people who were mostly religious make or attempt to make you feel bad because you're not part of the group .
Believe me if I had it in my power to wipe religion and especially the Catholic Church from the face of earth I'd do it in a heartbeat
If I had the power and were really pissed off, then I would not go so soft. After all, they used eternal torture to threaten me. They would pray to their God, and after losing hope, to me, their Antichrist, their new God, and a human. And when they'll be begging to even be crucified to be relieved, I'll set them free.
Alongside that, I'd design selection mechanisms for the zombies to minimise damages in a revolt. Those who filter away will be used as subjects of mass scale experiments. And, of course, they'll be unaware of it (not possibly completely, but sufficiently enough.)
Then, as a final token, I'd offer myself up to the leaders whose sole purpose then would be to get revenge on me. So that when they beat me to death, they turn nauseated of their live, what would have been and be remaining.
well being beat is not right. being christian means you are a sheep, or follower, of christ who is your shepherd. repenting is choosing to follow your shepherd, who will lead you to a pasture(heaven)
What exactly are you challenging me too can you be more specific ?
I never said I hated Ireland where are you getting that from ?
And no I'm not a disgrace to Irish people it's amazing how you side with followers of Christ who abused and tortured children in my country ( Google clerical child abuse Ireland and industrial schooling ) why would I respect a church that heaped untold misery on its population ?
If you lived here no doubt you would have applauded and cheered at this behaviour you are the true disgrace ..... Shameful
who cares, Dermit. If you want proof that Hell is for sinners, why not just curse God and die? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's what you are doing all the time. Your proof is coming. Enjoy. God loves you.
Nonsense ;you have an uncanny knack for talking abosolute bollocks and incidentally most other religions believe you are gonna roast ; how will you explain to their god you fucked up ... their gods love you repent before it's too late ....
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
Gods mercy ? Dear oh dear , god gives humans not free will but conditional free will , that is to say you have free will to believe what you want but it's conditional on believing in me without evidence ?
Thankfully it's all nonsense I fell sorry for you because you're actually worshipping a fictitious tyrant
If your that dumb then don't mind going to hell. At least I am not a "goat", which gets sent to hell. sheep are followers of god, and goats are idiots like you.
Suffering is because God gives us time in His mercy that we do not deserve. He allowed time for man to continue in sin outside of Hell after man fell into sin in Adam because He had a plan for you personally to be here. If God had imposed final execution on Adam the day he sinned, instead of keeping Adam in death with suffering on Earth, you would not be here and God would not get what He intended to have from the beginning, a people for Himself to enjoy, a people who will love and honor Him gladly and freely as they are given by Him all things that pertain to life.
Declaring "checkmate" against God is foolishness. You can't win against God. You're letting the devil push your buttons keeping you angry at God, you have to forgive and more than that, thank God for creating you and give Him the honor He deserves for giving you life.
Now if you are going to fight against the truth, I'll just let you fight it out with the devil against God and you can see for yourself who wins.
Any rational God won't want to punish us for whatever we do.
I guess Hindu God is more rational than yours. He doesn't give eternal punishments.
Now, if you can't be rational and just want try those attempts at shaming, well, the irrational debates where you have the power would be the best spot.
god didnt want people to suffer.the devil tricked us so we now suffer. god wants us to turn away from the devil so we wont suffer. so he teaches us through suffering so we can know how to be better people.
There is nothing kind about suffering. If you can't trust God to protect you, how can you trust Him at all? I think we do deserve God's mercy. Would you not condemn anyone guilty of torturing people over a wounded ego?
A living right is a right that every living creature possesses, be they human, or otherwise. Such rights include the right to live, receive healthcare, not be tortured, die with dignity, and so on.
You are seriously saying that every living thing should have a right to healthcare? We must fund healthcare for a spider for example? Did you think this through?
Hell is plotted by superiors for their own usage and innocents follow it blindly out of fear.
If poor are to suffer, they are said "Pain will take them closer to God and it is not bad". If rich are to suffer, they are given medication!
It is an intelligent game.
Hell is a weapon against the innocents by the wicked ones to have their ideas work!
After suffering, one might become stronger and wiser. But what is the use if you become strong and wise after losing your loved ones? Suffering is definitely bad.
Hell is a Judeo Christian invention which they defined as suffering for eternity. When you define something you have the prerogative make it anything you want it to be. Define Gary Indiana as suffering and then you can turn around and say "if suffering is not bad, then why is Gary Indiana symbolised by it?"
By definition. Hell could just as easily have been defined as just the place people who fall short of Heaven go to and wonder what they missed. It does not intrinsically have to have horrendous physical torment.
I did say that you can take some ground I haven't yet targeted in the first argument. That was about you believing something different from the positions here.
This is about the christian hell, that is symbolised by eternal torture.
As to your ground here, why would people need to wonder what they missed? Does that mean they can enter heaven soon?
torment and torture are two different things. Torture is willingly afflicted by a malicious person. Torment is what you bring on yourself by knowing your own bad choices, or by trying to explain away your own personal liability for your own bad choices while you are being punished for those choices. You bring it on yourself and you have nobody but yourself to blame for it, trying to blame God or your parents or other people will only add to your torment.
By definition, Hell is a place of fire which justifies the existence of sinners, a place where sin will be confined and consumed and contained forever. If you claim to have a differing definition of Hell, whatever you are defining is not Hell. You want Hell to be a place with is not horrendous physical torment because you are not saved and to think of where you are going is more than you want to believe.
You are already in a place you would define as Hell which is where you fall short of Heaven and wonder what you missed. But you are trying to change the definition of Hell thinking you can avoid the reality of it. You're on your way to eternal frying in fire like an eternal sausage, an undying squirming worm and you are very brave dismissing it. Why don't you take a bow as the audience cheers your bravery?
Again, by definition. Meaning whomever writes the definition sets the expectation of it. You still don't get that the rest of us don't swallow Bronze Age literature as the final word of anything we ever need to know.
if you define meaning as whatever you say it means, then nobody can be sure you mean what you say....and of course you can blame it on the wine....have another one, wino.
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
Hell is a place created by God for the devil and his angels. It is the only place God has for unrepentant sinners, it is not designed for people but there is no other place for people who will not seek God's mercy and believe He provided for that mercy by executing justice against sin on Himself as the Son of God who conquered death to deliver from death and save from Hell all who will believe on Him and put their trust in Him and receive Him by faith as their Savior.
Obviously you will not repent of your sin, you will not seek God's mercy, you will not believe on His Son, you will end up in Hell. I hope you prove me wrong on that but you are only proving me right so far. As for your stupid judges you feel would give you the prize for winning the argument, can they keep you out of Hell?
You're trying to change the truth into whatever you say it is, completely subjective to your own feelings and changeable. You reject the truth so you have no standard of discernment and go with whatever pacifies your feelings like a glass of wine.
You resist the thought of Hell fire because you know you have no way out of it...so you fool yourself into thinking you have the right to exist free from Hell. Nothing in life makes sense if God is not good and Hell does not forever separate sinners from the living. The myth you believe is that you have the right to live and to live outside of Hell....you have succeeded in convincing yourself that you are right and you are condemned but can't believe it because you can't accept the fire of Hell frying you like an eternal sausage...but you won't have a choice when your time is over if you will not repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved from Hell.
Are you winning the debate? Tell me about it, if you can, when your argument is finalized and nobody living has to hear it any more. Do you rest your case? Are you resting in peace? I hate to say it, but it all boils down to one thing...you are being a proud and brave fool and you might as well drink some more wine while you can.
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
The fact that you have never been in Hell does not mean you have the right to exist outside of it. The fact that you have not been frying like an eternal sausage in the fire of Hell does not mean you are exempt from it. The fact (your claim, anyways, I don't believe you at all, I think you are just fooling yourself and pretending to be brave...a proud and brave fool)......the fact that you claim to not fear Hell will not make you feel better when you are falling into it. Just because you have one foot in the grave and one foot on thin ice does not mean the fire of Hell is not melting the ice as the flames hunger to devour you.
If a person honesty seeks God's mercy they will find it. Most will not honestly seek God's mercy because they do not want to admit their complete lack of righteousness and their total depravity and being void of anything worthy of God's favor. Most people will not concede that they deserve to burn in Hell and they will never agree with God and they will never receive His forgiveness which He offers through faith in the blood of His Son who paid their price on the cross.
You are one of those people who will never know God's mercy, aren't you?
A trial just ended. A trial about several people, in a church, "seeking Gods mercy". What they GOT, I wouldn't call "mercy", wouldn't call "Gods favor", not by a DAMN site, "His forgiveness"! If it was caused by police negligence, we would be ALL OVER THEM! If you were right about this entity, it would be guilty of gross negligence, to allow that to happen "in HIS house", with all the "power" you think he has!
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is NOT omnipotent."
