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Debate Score:98
Arguments:105
Total Votes:104
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 If the truth of our existence could come out, what do you think it would be? (90)

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If the truth of our existence could come out, what do you think it would be?

If one day, we were to find out the truth of our existence(like, Why are we here? What is our purpose? How did we get here? Is there a God or supernatural realm?), what do you think it would be?
How likely do you think it is that you got it all right?
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3 points

The truth of our existence..............

The Earth is nothing special at all insofar as planets in the Universe, or even in our own Milky Way Galaxy.

We are but one small rocky sphere orbiting one average-sized main-sequence middle-aged star in the backwater of one galaxy, of which there are hundreds of billions. With each of those galaxies themselves having hundreds of billions of stars of their own.

And guess what else. A good portion of those hundreds of billions of stars in each of the hundreds of billions of galaxies have attendant planets of their own. Thus creating solar systems, many of which probably are similar in size and make-up as our own. (Most cosmologists think that a solar system with gas giants on the outer portion and smaller rocky planets inside is a not-uncommon structure.)

And here's the kicker, and my favorite part: As far as intelligent life in concerned, we are far, far, from being alone. Nope: the Universe is absolutely teeming with Intelligent life. Probably millions of civilizations out there. (If one out of a billion stars in the Universe had planets and one out of a billion planets had Intel Life, then the number of Intel civilizations is indeed in the tens of billions, maybe more.

As far as being technologically advanced we probably far somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, maybe even we are on the lower end. Why? Easy: we are a pretty young civilization. The Universe is about 13.78 Billion years old and our Earth is a youngster, at a mere 4.6 billion years old. Mankind, insofar as even remotely resembling our present form as homo sapiens, is a toddling 200,000 years old. This is a blink of an eye in Cosmological terms.

The great Stephen Hawking has always been opposed to SETI, and looking for Intelligent Life. Why? Because he agrees that we are probably not nearly as advanced as many other ET civilizations. And if you look at our own history you can see that when an advanced peoples comes a callin' on a inferior peoples (technologically speaking) it usually does not bode well for the latter. They are often oppressed or enslaved. Or just plain killed off.

Of course there is no such thing as gods. They are simply an invention of mankind, in a feeble attempt to try and extract meaning and purpose for life. And also to placate him by thinking that after this very short life is over, he has yet another life awaiting for him with his creator, in some sort of pearly-gated heaven.

Scientifically speaking of course, this is absurd. There has never been one single solitary shred of evidence for the existence of ANY of the thousands of gods that mankind has invented.

Likely as well, many of those other ET civilizations have gods of their own. Some of them however have probably (assuredly?) advanced to the point where they have put all that nonsense behind them, however. These guys would likely find out present religiosity here on the 3rd rock very quaint and amusing, if not downright retarded.

Closer to home, we are animals like all others, and happen to be the most advanced and evolved species of the homind primate genus. We have evolved through genetic selective inheritance over the span of about 3.1 Billion years, beginning as amino-acid molecules and then single-celled microbes in the super-warm primordial oceans that covered most of the planet one billion years after it accreted and cooled down after its initial formation.

We then evolved over eons from sea-dwelling-to amphibious-to-quadruped-and finally to hominid primates. There have been some 27 different sub-species of the genus homo, beginning about 6 MYA with a. afarensis, and us homo sapien sapiens are the last apes standing. Though we are at the end of the day only animals, we HAVE evolved to the pinnacle of the food chain on this particular rock.

Evolution has never been seriously challenged as a Theory or how we got here. It IS a theory but you must recall that in science, a theory is MORE than a single fact. It is a collection of facts that have been observed and tested and have yet to be disproved. Evolution keeps passing every single test thrown at it. So much so that most of us biologists do not even bother debating it any more--it is taken as a fact, just as we know the Earth is a sphere and not flat.

There IS a reason that about 95% of all professional Biologists and Anthropologists believe in Evolution. It is not a big bad evil cabal against religion and Creation, as the religious zealots whine it is, but rather, it is because the mountains of evidence are simply too vast and prominent and unchllenged (by any credible science source) to ignore.

So there is the State of Reality as Science Understands it today in the 21st Century. I of course skimmed mightily here, as time and space constraints prevent me from digressing at length. I WILL however be more than happy to answer any comment or questions about any part of this post.

Thanks for reading!

SS

2 points

Cheers to that. And I'll add that if it were proven true that Jesus Christ was just a regular man, didn't rise from the grave, didn't perform any "miracles", and that the apostles exaggerated or made up most of what was in the scriptures then 1/3 of the Christian world would deny it to their death, and 2/3 would become agnostic or atheist.

FromWithin(8241) Disputed
1 point

Total bigoted fool! Constantly you insult people for their beliefs. You complete MORON!

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
0 points

My friend, please tell me what you get out of believing this stuff. What does it do for you?

And most of this was readable until the insult at the end, implying anybody who presents scientific evidence contrary to your beliefs is not a credible source of science. People who believe like you do are not the owners of science. Anybody can look at the facts of nature, study them, and apply them scientifically.

As I said, it was readable thanks to refraining from profanity and for the most part going soft on the insults against people who do not agree with your beliefs. The thousands of gods you argue about which were invented by man are a straw man argument not including God who created all things. You leave Him out of your argument against God because there is no valid argument against Him. Your own consciousness proves He is the Creator and giver of life, yet you try to invent a god of nature which does not have consciousness or life and yet you believe these things arose by chance, by their own force which had no consciousness or life, no love, for billions of years but then suddenly (relatively suddenly in your time scale) life, consciousness, and love spontaneously generated themselves....something from nothing, an absurdity which can only be held as true in a religion invented by man.

There is a difference between us and the animals. The animals are not like God, we are. We have powers of reason, communication, creation (literally in reproduction and figuratively in imagination which may work out in applied science). Those god-like aspects of our being make us different than the animals, and precious to God in a special way. God loves the sparrow and grieves when He sees it die, but you are worth many sparrows. The sparrow is not one animal equal to you another animal. I hope that helps.

You are inventing gods by saying you believe there a many intelligent civilizations which would get a humorous kick out of our low level technology. You are inventing gods of the universe, and believing that by using technology you can become one of them. Demons are real, they can appear as aliens, they can appear as the Virgin Mary, they can appear as ghosts, and they can appear as non-existent if it helps to keep you in the dark regarding the reality of your sin separating you from God and condemning you to Hell which was not made for you but for the devil who deceives people into thinking there is no Hell. You are playing into his hands and giving him the only thing he has left, to take his anger out on something that is like God and loved by God and can be saved by God.

And by the way, Stephen Hawking is on his way to Hell and doing you no favor by encouraging you to believe you are one of the gods of the universe like all those aliens containing the power of life in yourself.

1 point

Surviving diseases that are prevented by vaccines is a huge advantage to what he believes.

Atrag(5666) Disputed
1 point

God loves the sparrow and grieves when He sees it die, but you are worth many sparrows.

LOL! LOL! LOL! But yet he drowned billions of them in the great flood? Oh yeah he grieves everytime he almost destroys entire species. What a load of rude stupid fatty moron doggy idiotic bratty nasty faced dope headed foul mouthed punk fool hater rubbish.

2 points

So, like.... I got none of it right. but.... Right doesn't really matter. Philosophy should be like science, an ever changing way to reason with the universe. if the model fits, and does no harm, does it really matter what is mostly right or incorrect? I was taught that Pluto was a planet in my younger years, that diamonds were the hardest substance in the universe and that I don't know, Salt caused high blood pressure. so long as your philosophy doesn't stagnate, it doesn't really matter if you're right or wrong. what works will continue to work, and what doesn't will either die out, or be preserved by a batshit insane minority. and so if tommorrow there was a way that they proved there was a god, not much would change, and if they proved there wasn't... well I'd still go around acting like there was one, and pretend like my actions would be judged upon my death by an absolute moral authority. because the only truth that I hope for is a bright future for humanity, and believing that you are responsible for every choice you ever make, even the ones you do in ignorance means that you are the only one you can blame for what you become. you don't need a God for that, but a God sure helps....If I'm sucessfully making words today.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

Your sin separates you from God, and as long as you love your sin you will remain separated from God and not experience knowing Him.

SatintLater(283) Disputed
1 point

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Atrag(5666) Clarified
1 point

Seriously? That guy made your head explode? I guess it was more because you didnt understand what he wrote?

1 point

Of course one can only speculate about the future if however given the latitude to predict what the ultimate end of this timeline entails it would be accepting the predictions of the King James Bible.

Reading the Bible I couldn't help but notice that God seems to absolutely love to do one thing in particular and that one thing is give his creations as much rope as they need to hang themselves.

Lucifer's attempt at disrupting God's effort to save mankind by working for the detriment of the death of Jesus not understanding dying was the object to salvation.

Adam and Eve in the garden with only one tree out of the entire garden not to bother but they just couldn't resist doing that which they aren't supposed to do

Allowing Pharaoh to chase down Moses with blind hatred forcing Pharaoh to lose a significant number of his military and thinking he can ignore God.

God has already predicted that man has been against him and that in the future man will reject him (enough rope to hang themselves)!

Once this timeline is over with, there will be no more greed, there will be no more envy for if it exists at all it will exist in Hell not in Heaven. When the people are the same, or different in Heaven they will no longer see one another as being different something mankind has never been able to do.

Sickness, death will no longer exist in my reasoning that this hasn't occurred yet is because God is allowing his people to increase in numbers because in the future if no one is dying then there is no reason for birth. Whether we remember this timeline are not those who manage to reach Heaven will begin living a life of such magnitude of peace and harmony beyond anything the human mind can imagine because the human will no longer exist and who can tell what that would entail?

Dubsteplover(2) Disputed
1 point

Our existence can almost perfectly be described with religion. An entity creating everything, or in the cases of other religions, an entity or spirit creating gods that rule over this existing plane of reality. Science, on the contrast,keeps on growing and some things cannot be described. That is because our knowledge of the environment around us, whatever range this may be, keeps on growing. Does God, Heaven or Hell exist? Scientifically, this can be answered, but one must understand physics regarding the forces that control us or our Universe. In the end, these are just theories. Some would argue that the existence of religion is there because of the fact to answer our curiosity. To answer the questions we don't know, there is religion. In fact, if one becomes pious, there meaning in life would commonly be to get accepted into paradise. But, if one was never exposed to religion, what would his purpose in life be. If he had critical thoughts, it would be whatever, as for that individual, after death would be, well, the term I specifically would use is: "lights out". The truth of our existence, to some, is that we are genetically programmed to be ourselves. Lets face it, the question of whether we have souls or not can be answered by a pious man or a true scientist. Based on what we know, the scientist would win. The thoughts we have are electric pulses. Religion is synonymous to hope in this way. The Universe, if it was personified, wouldn't give a shit about us. The Universe is vast, and the Earth is just a grain of dust compared to the entire Universe. If one has a vast comprehension in theoretical physics, then one would know that the Entire Universe is just a drop in the ocean. Therefore, the truth of our existence has been staring us in the face. Its just that we do not have the senses to see or even comprehend what that truth is. Its because some can see this, while others can't, is what gives people their unique qualities, however, is also the reason why things such as world peace don't exist. Unfortunately, the only country in harmony is North Korea, but that is because you take away the human rights, which, in its own way, is a sin to the existence of every being

I think Descartes already settled this issue: I think, therefor I am. I would add further confirmation with the fact every time I pinch myself, I feel it; so therefore, I must exist.

1 point

You do not exist. You are a figment of your imagination, so when you get tired of it all you can just blow your brains out and hope you don't end up frying in Hell like an eternal sausage........

Just kidding man, or woman, don't do it, God loves you and you can be saved.

SatintLater(283) Disputed
1 point

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1 point

Re: "end up frying in Hell like an eternal sausage......"

Well, Sausage Man, I'm not the one pud pounding my way to Nirvana with thoughts of twinks and underage kids dancing though my head, you are. I suggest you give up your errant ways, repent and maybe God will put you on flash fry, instead of slow burn to put you out of your misery sooner.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You're a sinner who deserves to die and burn in Hell the same as everybody else. For a brief moment you acted like a human being in conversing with me, then you revert to this mindless filth born of your insecurity when it comes to discussing truth. I wonder what happened to you so you turned out this way. What is your problem? Who let you down? I know you are afraid to discuss the truth with me at this point, but think about it....why are you angry against God?

1 point

It's funny how people wrestle with their own existence...funny but sad, a tragic comedy with no hope but to escape in death, utter futility and meaninglessness. And then they wake up in Hell and find they don't get out of reality.

SatintLater(283) Disputed
1 point

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1 point

As sinners, there is nothing we can do to establish a right to exist outside of Hell. The truth is revealed, you can know it.

SatintLater(283) Disputed
1 point

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BrotherJ(41) Disputed
1 point

As sinners, there is nothing we can do to establish a right to exist outside of Hell.

Hell is what we make of it.

The truth is revealed, you can know it.

I preach the universal salvation of all sentient beings.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Hell is a place of torment which burns with fire and brimstone. "The universal salvation of all sentient beings" is a lie from Hell. If "universal salvation" were true, there would be no need to refrain from any manner of evil or self-indulgence as all will be saved eventually in your lie.

God's Word is true, your word is based on lies

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

if "universal salvation" were true, there would be no need to refrain from any manner of evil or self-indulgence as all will be saved eventually in your lie, there would be no such thing as wrong or right, no way of knowing your own words are right, no way of knowing anything is anything other than nonsense.

Can you try to show some sign of intelligence? You're out in space there, and it's the space between your ears. Come back to earth and try to speak coherent English.

"Universal Salvation" lie promises the same thing as atheism.......and it's lies from Hell which will lead you into the fire.

1 point

We can have a Buddha phase during one phase of our lives, and it be "truth" to us at the time, and have a Hindu phase tomorrow, and then that be our truth.

But "truth" never can change, it can be revealed and realized but can not be whatever we decide truth to be.

Since truth is not always easily or immediately realized. It's easy to manufacture a variety of truths in light of what we think about God, or our faith in any god's or God, who God is, and the characteristics of God, if He wants anything from us, or if any specific standards, guidelines, or plans, or if He even exists in the first place!

Truth may feel subjective, and individually interpretive.

But in the end, there still only is one truth, and not many truths.

A thourough investigation is the only way to be as sure as sure can be.

1 point

Why are we here? What is our purpose? We are here because certain phenomena came together. What are we here FOR?? Whatever WE decide we are here for.

I think "the truth of our existence" IS already out, its some of the details that are missing. We have found facts exponentially since, say, "On The Origin of Species", compared to the centuries before. That will surely continue .... at least with those humans who think clearly and do not cloud their minds with mythology. The only thing that can stop that is some idiot with the Nuclear Codes! (OR, other idiots who cannot see what we are doing to, (tongue-in-cheek), "Gods creation")!