Illegal immigration
For illegal immigration
Side Score: 29
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Against illegal immigration
Side Score: 23
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1
point
Illegal immigration is a matter of opinion at best. If people want to come here and work to give themselves and their children a chance at a better life, doing it illegally is small beans. Illegal immigrants are not the problem, greed is. Immigration is used to cover up the steady redirection of funds and attention from social welfare movements such as universal healthcare and livable wage Side: For illegal immigration
1
point
I agree with your statement. Most of these families are hardworking people who want to make a bette living for their families. the media often portrays them as criminal and drug lords. and finally the jobs they are quote on quote taking from us are manual labor jobs that no privileged American would even consider doing. Side: For illegal immigration
The drug lords and human traffickers are still an issue and they constantly victimize immigrant families trying to cross the border illegally. If we made it easy to legally cross the border we'd make them harder to victimize and traffick them. And we definitely need to improve foreign workers' rights or something because the fact that we treat foreign workers like second-class laborers and give them 3rd-world payment for their toils creates a disparity in the job market that ultimately harms the entire working class. Side: Against illegal immigration
No, illegal immigration is a real and serious problem. There are criminals using immigrant caravans to smuggle illegal goods and conduct human trafficking. In order to make it easier for immigrants to do so legally while making it easy to identify criminals as they appear we must loosen the regulations and red-tape involved with the immigration process. The current legal system of immigration is obviously inefficient in preventing crime and protecting the border from criminals, but the answer isn't an open-border doctrine. If anything illegal immigration perpetuates the ability for companies to pay their workers less than a livable wage thanks to immigrant workers being held hostage by employers under threat of deportation and the disparity in the labor pool that causes. Universal healthcare, on the other hand, is totally unrelated. This is a classic example of a red herring fallacy. Side: Against illegal immigration
re: "No, illegal immigration is a real and serious problem." Can America really deal with any problems any more? There is no way South and Central America could over-run the United States. The aggregate population of Mexico, Canada, Guatemala, Honduras and the rest of Central America is not Much more than 205 million people. Even if they all moved to America, we would have less than a billion people, and even if we had 1 billion people, we would have less than half the population density of Germany, a very nice place to live that has growing forests, and nice empty places. We don't only have to only allow low income, uneducated, non English speaking immigrants. But even they wouldn't hurt America. We could educate their kids, and the fact that China has lots of uneducated people, lots of different languages, doesn't necessarily hurt them. It only hurts them if they are unable to integrate them into the larger community. We should accept the challenge of communicating, teaching, and honoring democracy and freedom and integrating as many people as possible. When you say "a serious problem" what do you mean? Do you think that if Canadians moved to America, they would harm America? Make it worse? We couldn't employ them? I don't get the fear. If we have jobs for them they will move here. If we don't have jobs, they will move back. What is the fear? Why don't we let people who live in English speaking countries (Canada, Britain, Australia, New Zealand) pretty much move back and forth if they have jobs? Why not have a point system, and make immigration work for us. We only take the ones that we want. If we grew by 5% per year for the next 23 years, we would have 1 billion citizens. However, we would only have one half the population density of Germany. We could have 2 billion people, and still be no more crowded than German. Germany is a nice place to live, and us getting almost as big as China is the only hope for the free world. The governments of Mexico and south America are not going to stand up to China. We can not trust them as allies. The only way we can stand up to them, is if we take their citizens and build a country that is as big as China. Side: For illegal immigration
re: "The current legal system of immigration is obviously inefficient in preventing crime and protecting the border from criminals." That is a myth. Peer-reviewed, largely overlooked research published in December shows that undocumented immigrants in Texas likely aren’t part of a crime wave. In fact, they’re much less likely to be arrested for serious crimes than are people born in the United States. Between 2012 and 2018, U.S.-born people were twice as likely as the undocumented to be arrested for violent crime in Texas and two-and-a-half times as likely to be arrested for drug crimes.
Supporting Evidence:
No, undocumented immigrants don’t commit more crime. Research shows they commit a lot less
(ncpolicywatch.com)
Side: For illegal immigration
re: "If anything illegal immigration perpetuates the ability for companies to pay their workers less than a livable wage thanks to immigrant workers being held hostage by employers under threat of deportation and the disparity in the labor pool that causes." What is wrong with a Market? People can double or triple their wages living in the united states. What is wrong with efficiency? Why can't we find mutually beneficial ways of doing immigration. If they make 5 times as much in the USA, we can even charge them more taxes than citizens. We need to move past the old immigration debates that discuss immigration in terms of charity, instead of building a country that can long term compete with China. Side: For illegal immigration
No, illegal immigration is a real and serious problem. No, white nationalism is the real and serious problem. White nationalists have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of terrorist deaths in the United States and when you create alt after alt after alt to come on here and parrot their talking points it simply makes sane people want to punch you in the face. Side: For illegal immigration
1
point
Illegal immigration is an important issue. Many people proclaim that individuals who enter the country illegally are a social and economic burden however, immigrants help grow the economy by fulfilling labor needs and purchasing goods. When more people work, productivity increases. and as a growing number of Americans retire in coming years, immigrants will help fill labor demand and maintain social precautions. Side: For illegal immigration
But the fact that they come here illegally only allows employers to treat them incredibly poor, subject them to 3rd-world working conditions, and give them little to no pay. They are complacent to these conditions under threat of deportation. They cannot go to the authorities about their poor working conditions because they would just be deported. We need to improve foreign workers' rights and make it much easier to cross the border in order to eliminate the need to illegally immigrate while still securing the border. Side: Against illegal immigration
re: "Many people proclaim that individuals who enter the country illegally are a social and economic burden however, immigrants help grow the economy by fulfilling labor needs and purchasing goods." I agree with you and am pro immigration. However, lets be honest. Younger immigrants are more likely to be a benefit to this country. They will work in the USA longer. Older people take more services than they provide taxes. Some immigrants are a burden. But even older immigrants who have kids, can be a benefit in the long run. Action Now: If America doesn't increase its population now, we will regret it. It will be better for us to integrate many people into our society now, while we have a head start over our rivals. Once China is more powerful than us, it will be riskier for us to do the difficult work of integrating immigrants into our society. Once China is more powerful and wealthier than us, we can't be sure people will still want to immigrate to America. Once China and India become wealthier, fewer people will want to live here. It takes a while for immigrants to become integrated into a new society. Every new immigrant wave to America has struggled. Irish, Polish, and Italians lived through high crime, disfunction, and discrimination when they first immigrated to America. We should get that over now, while we still have a comfortable lead over China and India. Side: For illegal immigration
America was able to win against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan because of American valor but also because immigration allowed us to be bigger than them. Germany's fundamental problem was that even after taking over Austria and the Sudentenland, it had only 80 million people, and the United States had 130 million. In 1938 the GDP of the USA was larger than Germany, Japan, and Italy combined because we had more people. (See Mark Harrison, the economics of world war II: an overview (Cambridge UI: Cambridge university press, 1998 23-24, as quoted from 1 Billion Americans by Matt Yglesias.) Side: For illegal immigration
America will be more willing to cheer on China and India's ascent to prosperity if we know that we will still be stronger at the end of it. The only way we can be stronger than China in the long run, is if we have as many people as them. A declining would power with a chip on its shoulder: Americans will be less easy to manipulate with rage and resentment if China becomes more prosperous, but we remain more powerful. The only way to remain more powerful is if our population increases. Side: For illegal immigration
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Illegal immigration wouldn't be illegal if there weren't a legal way to immigrate. Does the process take a while? Yes. Is it the easiest thing in the world? No. I do agree our immigration process could be tidied up a little bit, but that is no reason to resort to illegal immigration. In the end, it would be easier to go through the legal process than to live illegally in America with the fear of getting deported for the entirety of their time on American soil. Side: Against illegal immigration
We can only compete with China by 1) staying a desirable place to live, 2) being open to outsiders, and 3) letting people move to our free and prosperous country. We won't have a chance until our population is as large as theirs. It won't even be a fair competition between different approaches to human rights or economic philosophies. They will just bury us because they are so much bigger. Side: For illegal immigration
re: "Illegal immigration wouldn't be illegal if there weren't a legal way to immigrate." This argument assumes all laws are good. By this logic, alcohol was evil when it was illegal and acceptable when legal. I will agree with you that citizens should obey the laws. But that isn't the point. The question is if the laws are good or not. Side: For illegal immigration
2
points
There is a perfectly legal immigration procedure in existence which 100s of 1000s have diligently and conscientiously followed. Such law abiding people have been made fools of by the government's encouragement of illegal criminals to cross the border without any form of effective regulation. MAN, MAN OH MAN. Side: For illegal immigration
I agree that the current system is flawed but we still need some sort of border security otherwise the cartels will just continue to conduct human trafficking and normal immigrants who have a legitimate reason for coming to the country will be victimized by both the cartels and border security. Side: For illegal immigration
I'm not sure what to say to your statement that there is a "perfectly legal immigration procedure." Isn't immigration the only chance we have of competing with China? Don't we have to be as big as China to compete with them long-term? I don't understand telling people that can make 5 or 6 times as money here that they need to ignore the market and let their loved ones suffer. Would you "follow the law" if the law was keeping your family in poverty? Or why shouldn't we let people move freely between Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the USA? Shouldn't we have a points system that gives points to people who a) speak English, b) have skills that we need, and are c) willing to move to jobs in shrinking cities? Can't we design immigration to be good for our long-term and short-term best interests? Can't we trust the market that we claim we believe in? We need more people to make America Great Again! Side: Against illegal immigration
In this society, we have put laws in place to keep our country safe and secure. While I do believe that people should have the chance to immigrate to America, I think they should do so legally instead of break our laws to enter the country. If we are going to have laws, we cannot just pick and choose which ones we want to enforce. Side: Against illegal immigration
We need to move beyond the arguments of "laws" vs. "no laws." Everyone wants laws. We also need to move past the debates that view immigration as charity. We can set up immigration with points systems that give points to immigrants who speak English, have jobs in America, or have other desirable traits. If people make 5 to 10 times more in America than in their host country, we could even tax them more than regular citizens. It could be good for them and good for us. The point is that we should move past just saying "yes" or "no" to immigrants but find a way to use immigration to make us as big as China so that we can compete with them long term. Side: For illegal immigration
2
points
Immigrants are always portrayed very negatively in the media.Not all people who come on over are evil drug lords and so on. From personal experience most of my family and friends have come on over from generations, and not on of us has ever committed a crime. Immigrants are hardworking people with the dream of having a better life! What is wrong on with that? America was founded on a melting pot! Most of the people that cry about immigration have had ancestors come from other countries, the only true American are the natives. Furthermore all theses jobs that immigrants are quote on quote taking from American people are hard intense labor jobs. Do you want to be picking fruit or cleaning someone's house? I do not think so. The stigma with immigrants stems from a long history of racism in this country. We are slowly moving towards change but we need to remember what this country was founded on that being the American dream. We must give all people an equal chance. Side: Against illegal immigration
I think you are right, but saying it is all racisms might not help. The problem is that we are framing it the wrong way. THere is a a great book called "One Billion Americans." It says we should use immigration to make us as big as China to compete with them long term. We need to move beyond the arguments of "laws" vs. "no laws." Everyone wants laws. We also need to move past the debates that view immigration as charity. We can set up immigration with points systems that give points to immigrants who speak English, have jobs in America, or have other desirable traits. If people make 5 to 10 times more in America than in their host country, we could tax them more than regular citizens. It could be good for them and good for us. Side: Against illegal immigration
1
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If you want to come here for a better life and work hard I agree with that and support that, however legally is the best way to go. Every country has order and rules. Rules are meant to be followed and not broken. I have seen so many countries like Venezuela that has fallen so bad because of the lack of order they have. I believe that whatever the law says is what you should do. That goes with anything. Law says to not steal, I will not steal. Law says speed limit is 50 I will not pass 50. It's simply rules. If the law were to change and allow everyone to come in to america, go for it! So i stand on the side of the law. Side: Against illegal immigration
The law itself has no value. Laws require legitimacy to be enforced in the first place, and a law can't be enforced without causing more problems, it shouldn't be a law. The speed limit law for example is the most commonly broken law. Some cops don't even enforce speed limits because they don't believe it's a legitimate or worthwhile law to enforce, they just keep an eye out for reckless drivers. I do agree with you that we should prioritize legal immigration, but we should focus on changing the law so we can mitigate all the problems it causes. Side: For illegal immigration
I am against illegal immigration not on the basis that it is an illegal act, but simply because immigration, especially for seasonal employment, should be made much more simple and streamlined than it is now. It is clear that the immigration system we have in place only encourages people to immigrate illegally, which makes it much easier for criminals to both hide amongst otherwise innocent immigrants, as well as victimize those same immigrants. Having open borders would be foolish because it would empower human traffickers and criminals avoiding the jurisdiction of either country. On the other hand, stopping or heavily regulating and delaying immigration only causes these problems to be spread to asylum seekers and seasonal workers. This isn't to mention the fact that our drug prohibition policies heavily empower criminal syndicates in Mexico, making it easy for them to subjugate and victimize immigrant caravans. While the kleptocracy in Mexico and other countries where cartels and druglords corrupt the government has developed past the scope of drugs, loosening border security without legalizing drugs would be nonsensical. Reform of the immigration process and foreign workers' rights is a two-step process, a process in which we must legalize all drugs and legitimize the drug market first. That along with a much more streamlined and accessible immigration system would make illegal immigration reduced by a significantly large margin. Side: Against illegal immigration
re: "criminals to both hide amongst otherwise innocent immigrants, as well as victimize those same immigrants." One problem, though: Peer-reviewed, largely overlooked research published in December shows that undocumented immigrants in Texas likely aren’t part of a crime wave. In fact, they’re much less likely to be arrested for serious crimes than are people born in the United States. Between 2012 and 2018, U.S.-born people were twice as likely as the undocumented to be arrested for violent crime in Texas and two-and-a-half times as likely to be arrested for drug crimes.
Supporting Evidence:
No, undocumented immigrants don’t commit more crime. Research shows they commit a lot less
(ncpolicywatch.com)
Side: For illegal immigration
Illegal immigration is wrong for many reasons, due in part to the extra burden it puts on taxpayers, but the media likes to make it seem like just an American issue. Other countries have much stricter laws on illegal immigration, but when America tries to uphold its comparatively loose immigration laws, its own media cries for fundamental change. Countries like Bulgaria, Chile, China, Denmark, France, Germany, Israel, and Japan all have significant detention periods and hefty fines for illegal immigration like the U.S., yet none of those countries face the same kind of attention for similar laws. Moreover, taxpayers must cover the cost of illegal immigrants living in our country and using our facilities, which is unfair for the legal citizens of this country. Side: Against illegal immigration
re: "due in part to the extra burden it puts on taxpayers" Why is China powerful because all the citizens they have? Does having a lot of citizens make us more powerful? Won't we need more people in America if we are going to compete with China? Shouldn't we integrate a bunch of people while we are still wealthier than China? If people move here when they are old, I agree. They might take more money than they give. However, we are getting older. Our social security is running out of money. We need more citizens to be around and working while we are all getting older. Older people move here with kids, and those kids will pay taxes over their life. Besides, we don't just have to take immigrants who don't speak English. Why don't we have open immigration from Canada, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand and other English speaking places? Why don't we have a points system, that lets you immigrate if you have enough points. We could give points for 1) speaking English, 2) having a job offer 3) having skills we need. If people are going to make 5 or 6 times the money they make here that they would in Poland, we could even charge them HIGHER taxes, and it would still be a win-win scenario. Side: For illegal immigration
re: "Moreover, taxpayers must cover the cost of illegal immigrants living in our country and using our facilities" We don't have to. We have dials we could turn that could ensure immigration helps us, and our dying cities in the rust belt and our small towns that don't have enough people. Side: For illegal immigration
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