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Debate Score:55
Arguments:45
Total Votes:63
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 Is Communism good or bad? (41)

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MegaRhinoKin(8) pic



Is Communism good or bad?

What do you think of communism? Good, bad, mediocre?
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4 points

If you like having your nuts massaged, be a Capitalist. If you want your nuts ripped off and shoved down your throat by the Communist ruling elites, be a Communist.

Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff.

- Frank Zappa

1 point

Yeah and not all people like the idea of "sharing"

LiberalApple(73) Disputed
3 points

And some people don't like being told that when they're hungry they can't earn any more food.

2 points

The problem with communism is that it assumes people (and therefore governments) are things they are not.

SHORT ANSWER

Government does nothing efficiently, effectively, or responsibly. The more parts of your life government takes care of, the more of your life government will totally screw up. Because in communism, government administers everything "for the good of all", communist government is perfectly designed to screw up all parts of everybody's lives.

LONG ANSWER (in case you need it spelled out)

Communists misunderstand how the following realities interrelate.

Reality 1) People have an innate and biological drive to own and control, and to climb social hierarchies. This is deep in our evolutionary development, and we can see it in all vertibrates, and even in crustaceans. This is a very old drive that is deep in our brains. It is absolute and inescapable.

Reality 2) People in governments, like people in any other venue, are generally only as responsible, effective, and restrained as their limits force them to be. Good intentions do not change this at all. Virtuous people with benevolent outlooks are no more responsible, effective, or restrained than completely malevolent bastards who have the same external limits.

Reality 1 is why communist societies inevitably become just as hierarchical as every other society or social grouping.

Reality 2 is why it is such a bad idea to have the government administer everything (resources, business, labor, education, health care, law enforcement, military, art, science, etc. ad infinitum.)

In communism, because all economic resources and activities, and all needs-related resources and activities are held in common, the government administers them. What this really means is that the government OWNS EVERYTHING. This means that all of the natural checks and balances that force people to be efficient, effective or responsible are ALL in he purview of the government.

(Remember, per Reality 1 government is composed of those people at the top tiers of the inevitable hierarchy. This is no different that in any other social/governmental system.)

The top tiers of the hierarchy , by virtue of power, essentially are the de facto owners of everything. As such, people in government are able to insulate themselves from negative effects of mismanagement, and able to exert that power over those below them on the hierarchy who would hold them accountable.

The problem is that in communism, the scope of what the government controls is EVERY aspect of public life, and most aspects of "private" life.

When a communist government inevitably runs amok, in addition to controlling military, courts, and law enforcement, it also controls all the resources, the jobs and who gets which ones, the press, the arts, all businesses and all of what the businesses produce. Nobody can be independent of government sanctions on any part of their lives, so they have no leverage at all to force responsible government behavior. They cannot even work or get food without government involvement.

This makes despotism and mismanagement easier in communism because (per Reality 1) people are only restrained by limits, and communism puts no effective limits on government, but puts them on everybody else.

1 point

Socially, brilliant.

Economically, impossible.

MegaRhinoKin(8) Disputed
2 points

I would have to disagree. If the leadership is in the right hands, communism can be perfect in all ways. The reason communism is ruined is due to the natural corruptive state of the human mind.

2 points

That's the problem. The right hands are never the hands that grasp that power. That's why you never give the state that kind of power.

Amarel(5556) Disputed
2 points

So communism Would be a perfect social order for humans if not for humans...

Mingiwuwu(1446) Disputed
1 point

As soon as the hands are unequal to others, this is not communism.

TheMask(127) Disputed
1 point

@Megastupidkin

If the leadership is in the right hands

There isn't supposed to be "leadership" in communism, because communism is full on collectivism which governs itself through pure democracy. There has never been a communist state in all of human history because every one that calls itself communist is just about the opposite. Instead of collectivizing the means of production it centralizes it in the hands of the state.

Jace(5189) Disputed
1 point

An ideology that fails to account for basic human nature might seem conceptually perfect, but in any practical sense it is inherently imperfect. This is because it commits itself to unsound premises, building upon a foundation that ultimately cannot support its objectives.

marcusmoon(576) Clarified
1 point

If the leadership is in the right hands, communism can be perfect in all ways. The reason communism is ruined is due to the natural corruptive state of the human mind.

You are essentially correct, of course, but I would quibble with your reliance on corruptibility.

People are only as responsible, efficient, and effective as external limits force us to be. It is not a matter if virtue and good intentions, as much as it is a matter of how we relate to our social and physical environments' feedback and conditioning.

We are able to run our own lives because we are directly impacted by the results of our decisions and actions. We are unable to effectively run the lives of others because we are removed from the direct effects of our decisions about their lives. That gap in the action-feedback-assimilate information-reaction loop makes effective learning-based decision-making impossible.

Because communism encompasses all labor and all resources, the impossibility of the leadership being effective impacts all people.

When people say "if the communism was just run by the right people it would work," they indicate that they misunderstand how critical direct involvement and on-the-spot learning is to making things work.

Amarel(5556) Clarified
1 point

This is like saying that instantaneous teleportation is commercially brilliant but physically impossible.

Jace(5189) Disputed
1 point

Socially brilliant in what ways, exactly?

1 point

Briliiant man! Your post is famous. 😂👍

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
0 points

Socially, brilliant.

Economically, impossible

But what you Progressives say is it just hasn't been done right up to this point

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
0 points

Hey Dummy tell me what is Socially, brilliant. about Government controlling the people. Explain your Stupidity

1 point

1.a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

2.(often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

Communist are Totalitarians and you 2 Idiots are Communist

1 point

communism

any theory or system characterized by the ownership or sharing of all property by the community as a whole

[oftenC-]

as envisioned by Marx, a future condition of mankind achieved after the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism and a transitional stage of socialism, and characterized by a largely self-regulating society whose members have renounced private property and personal wealth, national identity, social-class differences, etc.

a political system that advances revolutionary principles for achieving this condition, either as formulated by Marx or as modified by Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, etc., characterized by a single ruling party, centralized economic planning, the curtailment of individual liberties, etc.

LOOSELY

leftist or socialist ideas, activity, etc.

Leftist are Commies ! Can anymore be said ?????????????????????

1 point

Objectively, neither. Subjectively, it depends upon whom you ask. In my own view, it's an ideology and I have no interest in serving any ideology above myself.

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

Existential nihilism is the belief that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. With respect to the universe, existential nihilism posits that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence.

Seems you are a Good Communist

Jace(5189) Disputed
1 point

Existential nihilism =/= communism. Not that it matters anyways.

Communism is all the things libs say they hate about Capitalism, but on steroids. Hate the "1%"? Communism will give you the .000001%. You hate there being hundreds of billionaires? Communism will give you 3 trillionaires. You like to vote for your leaders? Not with Communism. You get dictators for life. Congrats.

Communists are usually Jesuit controlled people who HATE religious liberty, and property rights, and practice the torture of religious and political dissidents.