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Debate Info

90
101
Yes No
Debate Score:191
Arguments:74
Total Votes:262
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 Yes (36)
 
 No (38)

Debate Creator

DaWolfman(3322) pic



Is God good?

matthew 5:17-18

This in short tells us that all laws are correct, indefinately correct. Therefore the laws in the Old Testament are correct.

 

 Deuteronomy 21:20
'They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard."'

 Deuteronomy 21:21
'All the men of the town must then stone him to death. You must banish this evil from among you.'

Yes

Side Score: 90
VS.

No

Side Score: 101
3 points

I'm not exactly sure what that quote from the old testament was saying.... but in general I do believe God to be good. Although I am an atheist, I think the concept of God can instill morals in people and create a sense of unity for humanity.... when not taken too far.

Side: yes
Maskeus(21) Disputed
3 points

I think the concept of God can instill morals in people and create a sense of unity for humanity

The concept of God does the opposite. People will always have different ways of looking at the same thing.

Side: No
casper3912(1581) Disputed
3 points

It is not morals it instills, but a type of Law. There is a difference between law and morals. Law is the set of rules for coercion, morality is a set of rules about how to act. Its a subtle difference, but an important one.

Side: No
DaWolfman(3322) Disputed
2 points

The quote from Deuteronomy is saying that children who misbehave will be stoned to death.

This is an law from the Old Testament, and the other quote above from Matthew states that all laws are correct. And they always will be.

So when our children misbehave ( i.e. be a drunkard ) they should be stoned to death.

Side: No
2 points

What do you think was the purpose of those laws?

Most people - especially foolhardy atheists - insist that accounts such as these only go to show that God was/is evil.

They know little about the background, though; and, as usual, things aren't so cut-and-dry as they think.

So, why did God have that law?

Because the Jew knew not of evil.

At the time, a purely Jewish society with no influence whatsoever of pernicious outsiders would have been without crime. Murder, thievery, rape - all of it unheard of. However, it would have taken a number of generations for this to be accomplished. If one were to commit such a crime, they would be introducing criminality to a crime-free society. The only way to prevent it. You guessed it - cut it off at the source (i.e. kill the criminal). This may seem quite tough, but one must remember that, had it succeeded, the Jews would have had a completely crime-free society. Murder would be unheard of - it would not be an option because the next generations would not even realize that such an action is possible. Such an option would be outside the scope of a regular man's knowledge and experience.

Side: yes
aveskde(1935) Disputed
5 points

At the time, a purely Jewish society with no influence whatsoever of pernicious outsiders would have been without crime. Murder, thievery, rape - all of it unheard of.

To quote someone famous on here - "Prove it."

However, it would have taken a number of generations for this to be accomplished. If one were to commit such a crime, they would be introducing criminality to a crime-free society. The only way to prevent it. You guessed it - cut it off at the source (i.e. kill the criminal). This may seem quite tough, but one must remember that, had it succeeded, the Jews would have had a completely crime-free society.

Getting back to reality, harsh penalties for small misdeeds actually only worsens crime. Do you know why?

It's because once a person breaks a small law, the stiff penalties invest them, so they feel like they may as well break more laws since the punishment will be the same (you can only die once). I think there was an old English saying about this that went like "In for a penny, in for a pound."

Murder would be unheard of - it would not be an option because the next generations would not even realize that such an action is possible. Such an option would be outside the scope of a regular man's knowledge and experience.

Murder is a latent impulse, not a learned behaviour.

Side: No
3 points

Damn! I meant to dispute!

To quote someone famous on here - "Prove it."

Not even gone yet and I'm already being quoted!

This is a theological debate and as such my primary sources are theological texts.

Getting back to reality, harsh penalties for small misdeeds actually only worsens crime. Do you know why?

It's because once a person breaks a small law, the stiff penalties invest them, so they feel like they may as well break more laws since the punishment will be the same (you can only die once). I think there was an old English saying about this that went like "In for a penny, in for a pound."

If they are killed immediately there is no time for them to further corrupt society.

Murder is a latent impulse, not a learned behaviour.

Prove it.

Side: yes
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

This may seem quite tough, but one must remember that, had it succeeded, the Jews would have had a completely crime-free society. Murder would be unheard of - it would not be an option because the next generations would not even realize that such an action is possible. Such an option would be outside the scope of a regular man's knowledge and experience.

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Texas kills people for killing people and has for centuries, yet everyday someone in Texas is killed. Same could be said of any place on earth that kills people for killing people. It would seem it is not the deterrent you paint it as.

At any rate as to your general point, if the ultimate goal is compliance to the powerful, than the bible is a wonderful guide full of slaves and overwhelming misery among the masses,

however Western culture was set-up apart from religion, recognizing that the goal of society is not compliance for compliance sake, but for the betterment of the population.

As such, once the execution of "law" becomes more oppressive than the actual crimes committed, then it is not the crimes which are "criminal" but the law itself. This is very much the case with the bible, as we have seen during the dark ages, witch hunts, and even currently with christian tribes in Africa and the "god hates fags" type christians of the US - whom all consequently have far more in common with terrorists and the mind-set leading to 9-11 than anyone involved in building the community center you have so railed against in previous debates.

Side: No

To God is Good but mostly faithful and He shows up right on time. Everyone have their own believes and like to start crap sometimes but there is only one God, Jesus Christ who is with all and through all.

Side: yes
2 points

To God is Good but mostly faithful and He shows up right on time.

Please clarify this is incoherent.

Everyone have their own believes and like to start crap sometimes but there is only one God, Jesus Christ who is with all and through all.

Who knows maybe yours is the right one.

And Jesus Christ is the prophet of the religion you speak of, he is not actually the deity.

Side: No

No need to God indescribable, He is all things that are good. Jesus is no prophet he is God in the flesh. Thats why People have their own way on describing their believes on something, I don't argue with them because its not worth it and I also mind my own business and what I say, Is what I say. Moving along. =)

Side: yes
2 points

Whether your side is that God is good or not, it really doesn't matter. The idea of God is totally subjective. Everyone who believes in God should have their own opinion of who God is and God's role in this world. Anyone who believes whatever they are taught needs to look further. My opinion of God is that God is good. The Bible will not change that, because God did not write the Bible. God is different on every page, and that is no coincidence. But everyone will have their beliefs, and most people will disagree. That's why this is a debate. My point is, you can't base your beliefs on what others say. You can let them influence you, and enlighten you, but ultimately your beliefs depend on you alone. Even the Bible must be taken with some measure of caution. Times change, people change, and God also changes. God was there before this world and God will be here after it, but that doesn't mean God never changes. God is good, that is my belief. That's why there's laughter and websites like this.

Side: yes
2 points

We assume he exists for this particular discourse.

As every parent knows, the best way to parent, or in this case, play God, is to let people figure it out themselves unless they go absurdly wrong. As much as it pains me to admit, this world is not so terrible as to need divine intervention. Thus, God acts the way he should, and does nothing.

The assumption of his existence may be false.

Side: No
1 point

God is just, not bad. That is a reading from the old testament, when you didn't look at the new testament. You may find a contradiction there, but that does not mean that God is BAD.

Side: yes
aveskde(1935) Disputed
5 points

God is just, not bad. That is a reading from the old testament, when you didn't look at the new testament. You may find a contradiction there, but that does not mean that God is BAD.

Question:

If a person, any bloke on the street told you that you must kill disobedient children, and that people who didn't listen to him deserved death, would you call him GOOD?

Nobody would. That's the point. You're making excuses for an evil deity because you were taught to worship it.

Side: No
4 points

A common blunder on the part of atheists is that the radical differences between the Old and New Testaments decisively prove that the Bible is inherently mistaken. That is not so.

Why? Because the Old Testament is the book of the Jews, whereas the New Testament is that of the Christians. The Christians are not in any way bound to the restrictions given to the Jews, being that they are, unlike the Jews of old, saved via "grace" rather than lineage.

Side: yes
marcww(2) Disputed
4 points

That is on condition that people believe in the bible in the first place, old or new or amended as necessary etc. Made up fairy tales to put the fear into people. No one with an intelligent mind today believes in the bible as "the True Word of God" Come on people, everyone with their own theory about the bible, Koran etc screams originality. The real question is, is there a creator/God. We don't know, and may not for decades, if not 000's of years to come. That's all, and no one alive today can prove it. Just accept the fact that we are but children in understanding the cosmos, and stop the petty bickering over who's God is better than the other. Pathetic! If there is a God, or Gods, we must be the entertainment of the universe.

Jews, Arabs, Christians, my god, "excuse the unintended pun" but your beliefs all stem from a common source, and the so called "books" have been proved and agreed upon that they are written by man. SIMPLE. Take what you believe for the common good and trash the rest as rubbish, as this is what it is. Politics in the first century AD.

Side: No
aveskde(1935) Disputed
4 points

A common blunder on the part of atheists is that the radical differences between the Old and New Testaments decisively prove that the Bible is inherently mistaken. That is not so.

Sorry, that's how logic works. Contradictory stories mean there is a mistake, which renders the damn bible fallible.

Why? Because the Old Testament is the book of the Jews, whereas the New Testament is that of the Christians. The Christians are not in any way bound to the restrictions given to the Jews, being that they are, unlike the Jews of old, saved via "grace" rather than lineage.

Better try reading that book you hold so dear. It plainly states that until heaven and earth pass, not one letter of the law is to be ignored (speaking of the whole bible).

Cognitive dissonance is a tough beast, in your guys' case it means defending the old testament while simultaneously denouncing it.

Side: No
DaWolfman(3322) Disputed
2 points

This is no contradiction.

What the newer version states is that all laws stated are true, and are never at fault.

Which would mean that the old law stated above from Deuteronomy would then be true, this is no contradiction. Merely a statement which led me to the question is Good good? Due to the Lord stating that we should stone our children if they are drunkards.

Side: No
TERMINATOR(6779) Disputed
4 points

You must remember that there is a temporal and cultural difference. The law listed in Deuteronomy is meant only for that Jewish civilization. Not for all Jews, not for Jews today, but just for the Jews of that one location, that one time.

Due to the Lord stating that we should stone our children if they are drunkards.

Drunkards, one could easily argue, corrupt society. One must remember that the times were vastly different than they are now - the whole concept of society has changed. It is better - from an almost utilitarian point of view - from one corrupting influence to be destroyed than for all of society to descent into a state of social obloquy.

Side: yes
orangepeel(190) Disputed
3 points

The thing is, God is saying that that is what they deserve. Does a murderer deserve a medal for comitting crime? No, he deserves death God was the voice of justice, but Jesus said to forgive them.

Just because God stated what people deserve doesn't make him bad. If he really was bad he would have sent Jesus to the earth to teach us to forgive them and show mercy.

Side: yes
1 point

Plain and simple God helps us have good moral standards, and sometimes something to live for.

Side: The God's People
1 point

Yes. The barbaric laws from the old testament aren't enforced because we are forgiven.

Side: yes

Were I a God who created the universe and everything in it, my wrath would have surely purged mankind from the Earth long ago for its atrocities in my name and against my name. A God who gives us the choice to keep living is a good God in my book.

Side: yes
1 point

First of all, the book of Deuteronomy was written by Moses 4000 years ago. I can personally imagine that a rebellious young man in those days wasn't going around preaching how good and loving our creator is. He was probably on his way toward murder, theft, rape...etc. I can't speak intelligently for the infinite wisdom of God, but I am confident that Gods wisdom is a little greater than anyone who posts in this thread.

If you have any doubts about God, try reading his books (they are compiled in a bigger book called the Holy Bible). My favorite is Proverbs, if you read only one book in the entire Bible read this one. It has amazing insight into your life, no matter who you are.

Side: yes
1 point

Even though I do not believe in God, I feel I have a good argument for this particular debate.

If God does exist, who are we to assume that we can even understand the reason that he does things? If there was a God, and this God created or had a hand in all that exists today, this God would most likely have some motives or reasons behind it all. He/she/it probably operates on a completely different level than we do. Perhaps "God" even reasons on a level we can not physically conceive or even begin to imagine.

I would think if there was a God, he/she/it could not be simply described as our pathetic descriptions of "good" and "bad". It would require words that we can't even think of in this day and age.

Side: yes
1 point

Your all stupid if you think god is evil, suffering in the world is due to actions that we humans do (moral evil) as for actions we think god does like earthquakes and volcano's if you think they are evil (natural evil) then you again are stupid because we choose to live in areas in which these things happen so who's the one to blame, what happens in the world happens for a reason or there would be no order and no world, to think that god is evil over perhaps a death of a loved one is quite understandable but if they are in pain would you rather them be in worse pain for longer or a peaceful quick death to remove that pain although we blame god as the 'thing' that did this that is true and really, if god was evil, why would he give us free will, if all he wanted was to see suffering he would make us like robots that killed people all the time but instead he give us a set of 10 life rules that if you think about it is common sense don't steal is an example why steal what you don't need or is it because your jealous, but if you really need it and ask for forgiveness then it shall be forgiven but its him forgiving you so dint expect everyone els to forgive you, there is so much to add to this but i think it would be to big if you want more convincing just ask :).

Side: yes
1 point

This is such an easy one, think about it, if god was evil a) he wouldn't have made us b) if he wanted to make us for his personal amusement he wouldn't have made free will. Those who think that volcano's and earthquakes are gods fault, is it? We are the ones who choose to live in these areas there for its out fault, what about the commandments, why would an evil god tell us NOT to kill NOT to steal NOT to be unfaithful, stuff that are in our laws and stuff that in our gut we know that if we be unfaithful or lie that its wrong, on the note, lying only comes back on you and not in a good way. So I ask you if a Omnipotent (all powerful) god was evil why isn't there chaos on the world?

Side: yes
1 point

"matthew 5:17-18

This in short tells us that all laws are correct, indefinately correct. Therefore the laws in the Old Testament are correct."

No, it doesn't.

The text actually is: "Do not think that I (Jesus) came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled"

Elsewhere in the New Testament we are told specifically that Jesus, and those who become His disciples are the fulfillment of the law for righteousness:

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:2-4 (King James Version)

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8 (King James Version)

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Galatians 5:14 (King James Version)

What is clear from what the entire New Testament has to teach us about the Old Testament law is that the spirit of that law is infinitely good, but the letter of it is as fallible as the men through which it was given, and the understanding of those who try and apply it to their lives.

The "rebellious son" is not simply the child who sometimes disobeys their parents, but is one who has become an incorrigible and serious threat to the continued well-being of the entire society. Which of you would advise that we today allow sociopaths to roam free within society? Anyone?

Side: yes
1 point

God is not evil, "for God is love." 1 John 4:8.

I am in no doubt that God is good. It even says in God's word, that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

So because the Lord did not wish for us to die, Christ chose to die in our place so that we may live with Him in paradise, forevermore.

Side: yes

Good God!!! Is God Good??? Really??? What do you think??? By definition He's Good ;)

Side: yes
-1 points

You are simply wrong. You are either defending God against Himself and you know it or you are basing your statements on own opinion without consult the bible. If you want to be accurate you must realize that you are 2000 years removed from that period and mankind is totally Dependant on the bible for its knowledge. I think you have fallen into the trap of defending God that so many religious people throw caution to the wind with or are just clueless about references like: Job 42:7-9. LET ME ASK THIS: IF DEFENDING GOD COULDN"T BE A SIN THEN WHY WOULD SACRIFICE BE REQUIRED OF THEM HERE? AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON HAVEN'T YOU READ WHERE GOD TAKES FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS WHEN HE SPOKE WITH SATAN "...although you turned Me against him without a cause..." Job 2:3. If you want to defend God and be right! The first thing you would need to do is know what the real meaning of the scripture is. This could become a problem when someone is exposed to things that will influence their thoughts before they have grasped the text properly. That's why I tell people to take their bible and SHUT EVERYTHING ELSE OUT BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER WIN AGAINST 2000 YEARS OF RELIGIOUS CONFUSION, It often takes patience measured in years to understand the meaning the few passage that really need an explanation. Commentaries are a waste of time and tend to confuse. They will write almost everything about things that need no explanation but they will conveniently skip over those things that do. That's why atheist are bring up just some of what they have skipped over because they didn't the guts to tackle the tuff questions in first place. Now that atheist are bring these point up they all of sudden have something to say but are saying it badly (contrary to scripture). BUT WHERE WERE THEY WHEN THEY WERE WRITING THEIR POINTLESS COMMENTARIES AND BOOKS. YOU KNOW THEY WRITE THOSE BOOKS TO REPLACE THE BIBLE WITH OWN NOTHING IN ORDER TO CASH IN ON GOD. IT THEREFORE IS NO WONDER THAT EVERYONE MERELY CONSULTS THEMSELVES RATHER THAT FOOLISH BIBLE, WHO NEEDS THAT ANYWAY!!!

Side: yes
-1 points

...........................................................................

Side: Yes
5 points

You can defend an ideology by defining bad behaviours as inerrant, but all that matters here is that the majority of people thinks that those behaviours and deeds are evil independent of whether god did them or has them.

Side: No
TERMINATOR(6779) Disputed
2 points

You can defend an ideology by defining bad behaviours as inerrant, but all that matters here is that the majority of people thinks that those behaviours and deeds are evil independent of whether god did them or has them.

And, so far, the majority disagree with you.

Side: yes
aveskde(1935) Disputed
3 points

And, so far, the majority disagree with you.

So you're saying the death penalty is regularly handed out to disobedient children worldwide. Okay.

Side: No
2 points

The definition of "good" as being "that which is consistent with God's will" is promoted exclusively by religious entities. The infallibility of those entities must be taken on one's own judgment before it can be established. If it is not, then neither is God's inherent and inerrant goodness, which can otherwise be thoroughly refuted by virtually any moral standard with ease.

Side: No
2 points

how can a non existent entity be good or evil he does not exist , so there therefore cannot be good ,

Side: No
DaWolfman(3322) Disputed
1 point

I was looking for something a little more in depth, thanks for trying though.

The point of it isn't to say that God doesn't necessarily exist, it is to ask those whom believe in Christianity whether or not they think God is good from the standpoint of their own bible.

Side: No
2 points

it depends as to what kind of god you pray to. there are good gods as well as bad gods. but who you pray to totally depends upon you. you can even change your god and start of again by praying to a new one. you do that by completely changing the impression of what you think god looks like and make a perfectly new one.

Side: depends
1 point

I believe that there is no solid definition of good and evil, and that said definition is different to person.

And my belief is that God is not good. He does not care for his children and he seems to let a great deal of his followers to be some of the most hypocritical and downright rude people I have had the displeasure to meet.

So no, based on the above, I don't believe God is good

Side: No
1 point

The belief in a God or God(s) drives believers to destructive courses in order to defend their beliefs. So, no.

Side: No
goodyjoel2(8) Disputed
1 point

The believers of any God is independent of the goodness of that God himself.

Side: yes
TheHallow1(78) Disputed
0 points

Ironic

The minimum length for an argument is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.

Side: No
1 point

GOD IS

EVERYTHING

Good or bad are grey. I can theorize species without. But Humans love good or bad.

We are BiPolar.

Thats what makes it god

Side: No
1 point

Moral Absolutes are ... a thing for idiots

To quote modern movies.

Only the Sith think in absolutes.

Side: No
1 point

God really stinks because he's responsible for taking charge of people's luck but I've almost never been lucky in my lifetime. So to conclude with two words, god sucks

Side: No