CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
it's right if we say " people can't know if he is " but we can fell it we can feel the protection from god, etc. it just like air, we can feel it but we can't see it.thank you
today i learned why scientists and christians (or people who believe in a higher power in general) dont get along. I'll just give you a basic summary.\
During the medieval times, catholics and christianity were a huge influence. The churches were so obsessed over who believed in what (i think people can personally believe what they want, but using only knowledge and NOT force, people can persuade others) that they would kill you if you defied them. The Muslim people forced others to convert, and this launched the crusades. NOW, more than 90% of Europeans were christians. One half believed that science was directly linked to God (their point of view would be "God directly created science and the idea that he is not real by logic to test our faith". these people would later become the athiests who must live by logic). The other half belived that you do not need logic at all and your life should directly revolve around Christ and God (these are our die-hard, awesome christians out there! their point of view would be "science is irelevant when you have all you need in the Bible). BOTH OF THESE POINTS ARE TRUEEE!!!!! but they were argued over for hundreds of years to the point that they both seperated. the church basxically was so anal about it, they seperated their own.
There is pictures and stories on youtube where demons had take place. Youtube has actual footage of an actual exorcism. If demons are real, then God is real.
Well, people have been talking of God long before science was even thought of plus the bible says truths about the world way before science did. Like the earth being round, there being valleys underwater and even to wash your hands under running water to get germs away.
but there is so much proof he is! TO ALL ATHIESTS OUT THERE:
if you honestly dont think there is a god, why not believe just in case? Better safe than sorry... you dont want to burn in hell for eternity... :( i feel bad how many people are going to hell because of their ignorance
The Christian faith is the ONLY religeon that gives you an option, instead of Ala or the Buhdda that says if you dont believe, you should be killed. The christian faith does not have a punishment if you dont believe while on earth. thats why there are so many idiots out there afraid of their death. He has the most logical religeon. The christian faith is the most practiced religeon. Im not saying you should change your beliefs, but if you are an athiest and dont think your soul goes anywhere or you dont have a soul at all, then why not believe in something just for the heck of it? i dont like the fact that people are going to Hell because of their ignorance.
True story: an elderly woman was at the hospital. her heart gave out, and she was dead. as the doctors got ready to shock her heart, and her heart continued beating. she woke up later, and she said she felt this wonderful love as she was floating up and up towards a heavenly light. the doctors said "how do we know you are lying". And the elderly woman (who could not walk) said there was a red shoe on top of the hosital. that day, they went up, and there was a red shoe on top of the roof. Enough proof? My church told me this with a video of her. i will try to look it up! :)
That's great and everything but you did not actually address either of my points.
Again, people cannot change their beliefs. An atheist cannot randomly choose to become a believer anymore than you could randomly choose to become an atheist.
And again, how do you know that you believe in the right god? Just because it has the most followers?
Telling me what you think is good about your religion (even if it's mostly bullshit) doesn't explain why that religion is the only correct one. Just because the way you like something sounds doesn't mean it is any more likely.
As for your 'true story': I am not even sure what you were trying to prove with this, especially without verifying it. Was this supposed to convince someone to convert to Christianity or somehow contradict my statement about the involuntary nature of belief?
So, no, you did not answer my questions. But hey, maybe if you say enough times that you did, it will come true.
ugh difficult people like you just dont realize anything... you people need proof for it to be real. Its long... the Christian faith is very complex. Its amazing what will happen when you are a christian. You just wouldnt understand because ur tiny brain cant comprehend that there is a God. Oh well... i atlest try to help you. But if you really want to go 2 hell and you will be punished
you arent answering any of my questions either. If you're an athiest and dont believe in anything, why not believe for the heck of it? What do you have to lose? My true story answered your "how do you know its the correct one?". Sorry for not clarifying it.
You are really being that immature? theres no need to make this so mean... this website is full of athiests... not the right debate for this website... but if you really want to know whats so special about the christian faith, then ill go into detail... but get ready for a novel :)
Its long... the Christian faith is very complex. Its amazing what will happen when you are a christian.
I was raised in a Christian family. While I believed, good things happened, and bad things happened. Just like they do to everyone, regardless of religion.
You just wouldnt understand because ur tiny brain cant comprehend that there is a God. Oh well... i atlest try to help you. But if you really want to go 2 hell and you will be punished
Not too worried about this since there is no evidence for hell.
you arent answering any of my questions either. If you're an athiest and dont believe in anything, why not believe for the heck of it? What do you have to lose?
Did I not say three times that people cannot change their beliefs at will? With the available evidence, the conclusion I have reached is that the Bible is probably made up and God probably isn't real. Until something new is presented, no atheist is going to genuinely believe any different just to be on the safe side. We could fake it but if God is real, then he would probably not be fooled, don't you think?
My true story answered your "how do you know its the correct one?". Sorry for not clarifying it.
Maybe Allah is responsible for this. Or coincidence, or any number of other ways for this woman to have knowledge of a shoe on a roof. How do you know better than everyone else?
You are really being that immature? theres no need to make this so mean... this website is full of athiests... not the right debate for this website...
Get a thicker skin, especially if you're going to be so condescending right before you say something like this.
but if you really want to know whats so special about the christian faith, then ill go into detail... but get ready for a novel :)
The Buddha never said "if you don't believe you should be killed." Not even close. In fact, he encouraged people to find their own answers. He challenged those who disbelieved his words to find their own way in the world, and if they found something that worked better, than by all means, do what works best. He also believed, however, that if someone really listened to him and looked at the world after hearing him speak, that they would come back to his view. It is believed that many did.
In Buddhism there is an eventual "reward" for being Buddhist, although you will never find it if you look at it as a reward. And there is no punishment for not being a Buddhist, you simply continue in the same cycle that EVERYONE else is going through.
One should NEVER take a belief as truth "just for the heck of it." That is an insult to both our intelligence and to the true believers of the religion.
Your story says absolutely nothing of God. It does hint at a supernatural occurrence, but such experiences have been recorded in ALL religions and societies. Christianity does not have the monopoly on the supernatural.
The Christian faith is the ONLY religeon that gives you an option
That option: Accept Christ or burn in hell? How is that any different than Islam?
The christian faith does not have a punishment if you don't believe while on earth. Unless you lived through the Spanish inquisition.
He has the most logical religion.
Logical in what sense? Tell me why Christianity is more logical than say the Baha'i Faith.
but if you are an atheist and dont think your soul goes anywhere or you dont have a soul at all, then why not believe in something just for the heck of it?
Because belief is not chosen.
an elderly woman was at the hospital. her heart gave out, and she was dead. as the doctors got ready to shock her heart, and her heart continued beating. she woke up later, and she said she felt this wonderful love as she was floating up and up towards a heavenly light. the doctors said "how do we know you are lying". And the elderly woman (who could not walk) said there was a red shoe on top of the hosital. that day, they went up, and there was a red shoe on top of the roof.
Why don't you believe in Allah? Just in case, of course. Otherwise he will send you to a fiery doom if he does exist.
Allah is Arabic for God. Yahweh is what God told Moses to call him and God is the meaning of a divine person.
There is no need to waste your life believing in something which has no relevance or evidence.
If there is no God please tell me what is the meaning of life? If there is no God then everything is allowable. You could do whatever you want and no one would care because you only live one life and nothing would happen after you die.
Supporting Evidence:
Proof of God
(www.everystudent.com)
If there is no God then everything is allowable. You could do whatever you want and no one would care because you only live one life and nothing would happen after you die.
So the only reason you don't hurt others is because God says it's wrong and he'll punish you if you do? Not because you are capable of empathy for other people, and are aware of the earthly consequences of bad behavior?
Allah is Arabic for God. Yahweh is what God told Moses to call him and God is the meaning of a divine person.
The Islamic and Christian gods are mutually exclusive. If you follow the dogma on one, you are heretical in the eyes of the other.
If there is no God please tell me what is the meaning of life?
There is no meaning to life. It functions without purpose because it is the product of natural laws.
If there is no God then everything is allowable.
God is irrelevant to morality. If god does not exist, we must make our own morals from reason and empathy. If god exists, and it gave laws to follow, they would not be objective morals but the wishes of an intelligent agent. Following those laws would merely be a deferral of moral questions to an authority. It would not be a basis for objective morality.
Anything is permissible in this universe. It is a fact of life, like death, and suffering.
You could do whatever you want and no one would care because you only live one life and nothing would happen after you die.
Who says that people must not care? We are held accountable by ourselves. If we transgress morality and law, others will find us contemptible and punish us.
Your links:
They do not provide proof for god. They operate on flawed premises (evolution creates complexity through natural means, therefore complexity does not imply design, same with fine-tuning, live adapts to fit the environment). The uniform laws of nature exist either because they are the only way in which the universe could play out (logically speaking, a universe cannot be comprised of contradictions) or it is the case that we exist in a multiverse where certain laws of nature are allowed to change without leading to contradiction. We cannot know this, however, it is speculation and unknowable. This means that the theological claims made on the subject operate from ignorance. Finally, accepting a religion because of miracles is to believe in something because it is impossible. Miracles cannot happen. Therefore the religion must be false.
Attis was a son of the virgin Nana. His birth was celebrated on DEC-25. He was sacrificed as an adult in order to bring salvation to mankind. He died about MAR-25, after being crucified on a tree, and descended for three days into the underworld. On Sunday, he arose, as the solar deity for the new season. His followers tied an image of Attis to a tree on "Black Friday," and carried him in a procession to the temple. His body was symbolically eaten by his followers in the form of bread. Worship of Attis began in Rome circa 200 BCE.
Dionysus is another savior-god whose birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout much of the Middle East as well. He had a center of worship in Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. Some ancient coins have been found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on the other. In later years, his flesh and blood were symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.
Osiris is a savior-god who had been worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again'" 5 Three wise men announced his birth. His followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body. Many sayings associated with Osiris were taken over into the Bible. This included:
23rd Psalm: an appeal to Osiris as the good Shepherd to lead believers through the valley of the shadow of death and to green pastures and still waters
Lord's Prayer: "O amen, who art in heaven..."
Many parables attributed to Jesus.
Worship of Osiris, and celebration of his DEC-25 birth, were established throughout the Roman Empire by the end of the 1st century BCE.
Mithra was a Persian savior. Worship of Mithra became common throughout the Roman Empire, particularly among the Roman civil service and military. Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th century. Their god was believed to have been born on DEC-25, circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by gift-carrying Magi. This was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and cast out devils. He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples. He ascended to heaven at the time of the spring equinox, about March 21.
The 23rd Psalm mentions nothing of Osiris in it. According to the NIV.
Attis was is no way a pre-cursor to Christ. The coming of Jesus was foretold well before the story of Attis. I am assuming you got some of your information from POCM which gives an incorrect date back to 500 B.C. when his story wasn't told until later. You also might want to mention why Attis was tied to a tree.
PARENTS
(1) GALAOS (Pausanias 7.17.8)
(2) NANA impregnated by an almond from the tree which grew from the severed genitals of AGDISTIS (Pausanias 7.17.8)
ENCYCLOPEDIA
ATYS, ATTYS, ATTES, ATTIS, or ATTIN (Atus, Attus, Attês, Attis or Attin). A son of Nana, and a beautiful shepherd of the Phrygian town, Celaenae. (Theocr. xx. 40; Philostr. Epist. 39; Tertul. de Nat. 1.) His story is related in different ways. According to Ovid (Fast. iv. 221), Cybele loved the beautiful shepherd, and made him her own priest on condition that he should preserve his chastity inviolate. Atys broke the covenant with a nymph, the daughter of the river-god Sangarius, and was thrown by the goddess into a state of madness, in which he unmanned himself. When in consequence he wanted to put an end to his life, Cybele changed him into a firtree, which henceforth became sacred to her, and she commanded that, in future, her priests should be eunuchs. (Compare Arnob. adv. Gent. v. 4, and AGDISTIS.) Another story relates, that Atys, the priest of Cybele, fled into a forest to escape the voluptuous embraces of a Phrygian king, but that he was overtaken, and in the ensuing struggle unmanned his pursuer. The dying king avenged himself by inflicting the same calamity upon Atys. Atys was found by the priests of Cybele under a fir-tree, at the moment he was expiring. They carried him into the temple of the goddess, and endeavoured to restore him to life, but in vain. Cybele ordained that the death of Atys should be bewailed every year in solemn lamentations, and that henceforth her priests should be eunuchs. (Galloi, Galli, Serv. ad Aen. ix. 116; comp. Lobeck, ad Phrynich. p. 273.) A third account says, that Cybele, when exposed by her father, the Phrygian king Maeon, was fed by panthers and brought up by shepherdesses, and that she afterwards secretly married Atys, who was subsequently called Papas. At this moment, Cybele was recognised and kindly received by her parents; but when her connexion with Atys became known to them, Maeon ordered Attis, and the shepherdesses among whom she had lived, to be put to death. Cybele, maddened with grief at this act of her father, traversed the country amid loud lamentations and the sound of cymbals. Phrygia was now visited by an epidemic and scarcity. The oracle commanded that Attis should be buried, and divine honours paid to Cybele; but as the body of the youth was already in a state of decomposition, the funeral honours were paid to an image of him, which was made as a substitute. (Diod. iii. 58, &c;.) According to a fourth story related by Pausanias (vii. 17. § 5), Atys was a son of the Phrygian king Calaus, and by nature incapable of propagating his race. When he had grown up, he went to Lydia, where he introduced the worship of Cybele. The grateful goddess conceived such an attachment for him, that Zeus in his anger at it, sent a wild boar into Lydia, which killed many of the inhabitants, and among them Atys also. Atys was believed to be buried in Pessinus under mount Agdistis. (Paus. i. 4. § 5.) He was worshipped in the temples of Cybele in common with this goddess. (vii. 20. § 2; AGDISTIS; Hesych. s. v. Attês.) In works of art he is represented as a shepherd with flute and staff. His worship appears to have been introduced into Greece at a comparatively late period. It is an ingenious opinion of Böttiger (Amalthea, i. p. 353, &c;.), that the mythus of Atys represents the twofold character of nature, the male and female, concentrated in one.
Source: Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology. C19th Classics Encyclopedia.
The old testament is far older then any Greek or Roman mythology. The coming of Christ was foretold in many places in the old testament. If you are so enlightened why wouldn't you check this fact. Or do you just spit out information when you read it.
eh, shut up. i do want a vote. i dont care how you feel about it. a vote. Jesus was indeed in history books. he was real... the real debate is whether he was the son of god, you idiot. educate yourself you fool.
you dont know anything about me, so i would just shut up. i have a GREAT education... A's and B's and i go to a private, christian school. Ill look it up for you cuz ur too stupid to do it yourself! XD
Historians conclude that Jesus was born in the last years before Herod's reign ended in 4 BCE
These websites prove that there was indeed a real Jesus, at the same time period, with the same people. The debate is whether or not he is truely Jesus Christ, Son of God (which he is... you will be sorry sooner or later as stated in the Bible)
And hey, if you dont want to debate on this certain debate, then thats your problem, isnt it? :) So make your own debate, go on a different one and stop sniveling about another God intoxicated person BECAUSE YOU DONT NEED TO BE ON THIS CERTAIN DEBATE, IDIOT XD
