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I think Islam is a peaceful religion as long as you are Islamic and/or don't mess with them. If you get vocal or mess with them, then the more radical faction wants to snuff you out for not being a believe in their beliefs.
No one said you to join or die. Islam has never pushed anyone into believing anything. In fact all we have done is try to show people the right path and you should read the cause of the wars( the wars during the time of the prophets) in fact most of the time it was because Muslims were insulted and betrayed by the non believers. My conclusion: Islam is very peaceful.
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It's not really a peaceful majority... according to research done between university students in UK who claim to be Muslim.
40% wants to live under Sharia law - which is extremely brutal theocratic system.
36% wants death penalty for leaving Islam
32% backs killing for Islam
21% feels sympathy with 9/11 and 7/7 bombers
-this number are likely to be higher because the questioning has been done in public places like university libraries and parks so there is a good chance that not all freaks told the truth.
These people are educated people studying university, so we can imagine how is it in the mostly illiterate majority.
This research has been done in 2009 by "Center for Social Cohesion". Later it was classified as a secret and not published.
It gets out because of Wiki-leaks and later published by Daily Mail.
I will look this up when I get home but your argument is already failing considering you are basing it on the Daily Mail a notorious racist rag which has always had problems telling the truth, I'd sooner believe what they print in the sport
I have checked what Wiki-leaks had on line and the reason it is the same on there as it was in the Mail is because it was from an old Daily Mail article from 2008 and it's another piece of dodgy reporting.
The questions were very vague like "how supportive if at all would you be of official Sharia law into British law for Muslims in Britain?" The answers very supportive 21%, fairly supportive 19%, the headline missed out the for Muslims bit though.
The other bit which is a misrepresentation of the facts said one third of British Muslim Students says it is acceptable to kill for Islam a distortion of the facts when the question was, "is it ever justifiable to kill in the name of Religion?". The answers yes in order to preserve and promote that religion 4% and yes but only if that Religion is under attack 28%. 32% said that it was acceptable to kill in the name of A Religion not Islam, ANY Religion, of that 87.5% said only in self defense.
They also ignored positive aspects like 89% of those polled said Women should be treated equally and only 25% had a problem with Homosexuality.
As I said The Mail is'nt big on letting the truth get in the way of a good story especially when it can stir up a bit of Race/Religious hatred
Have we met? The reason I called the Mail a racist paper that prints lies and the reason it has been said before is because it is true, it is not famous for printing balanced news
These people are educated people studying university, so we can imagine how is it in the mostly illiterate majority.
This research has been done in 2009 by "Center for Social Cohesion". Later it was classified as a secret and not published.
It gets out because of Wiki-leaks and later published by Daily Mail.
No. It's time to do a bit of fact checking.
Center for Social Cohesion is funded by Civitas). Civitas itself was founded by David George Green. David George Green writes for the Daily Mail. So the Daily Mail didn't just discover anything on wikileaks, their own writer was a part of the group that wrote the document. What is of note is that Green writes for notoriously right-wing media outlets.
Let me familiarize you with the concept of Selection Bias.
Part of the problem with this mock survey is that its results don't really match with that people on the ground actually report. Why is that? Because if you only survey a bunch of guys that look like Osama bin Laden, chances are you'll get results that confirm the stereotype. If they'd asked other Muslims that don't enjoy dressing like its 10 A.D; I would anticipate very different results.
Thank you someone who understands what the daily mail is all about when I researched it it I discovered it was a survey done for a Mail story in 2008, it amazes me that people still credit the Mail as being a reputable source
To borrow an example I just used, America is well known for being one of the most obese countries in the world. Yet the vast majority of our population isn't obese. This doesn't mean that our country doesn't suffer from an obesity epidemic; just because the majority isn't obese, we still have a disproportionately high percentage of obese people compared to other countries, and that's a problem.
Similarly, I would never make the claim that most Muslims are violent fanatics, but there does seem to be an unusual amount of violent fanaticism in the Muslim world when compared to other cultures. And that's cause for concern.
My point is the majority doesn't need to be involved in order for me to be worried and see something as a problem.
Also you only really addressed Muslims, not Islam. In my experience watching the actions of a religious follower does little to tell me what his religion is like, so regardless of how Muslims act that can say very little about Islam. And I think when you examine Islam (read the book and the post-prophet dogmas and such) you will find it is not a religion that is intrinsically peaceful. It takes no effort whatsoever to justify religious violence using the Quaran. So when we're asked the question "Is Islam Peaceful?," we can't answer with how Muslims act, and I think based on the scripture we're examining we can conclude no, Islam is not peaceful. It may not force it's followers into violence, but neither does it force them to peace because that's not the philosophy of Islam.
Islam is love and kindness. Read the Koran and stop being afraid of what you do not understand. People need to realize that not everyone acts the way the extremists do. Pornography was found in Osama Bin Laden's house, Islam considers pornography a sin, so this MAY indicate that Osama was not a true Muslim.
The standard for being a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim has never been 100% adherence to all of the tenants of that religion. In fact all three of these faiths admit that is impossible to do. When you sin it doesn't make you a "false" Christian or Muslim, it just makes you a Christian or a Muslim who, like all other Christians and Muslims, sins. So Osama could have been running several porno production companies and still have been a true Muslim.
You are 100% correct. But I was saying that because Osama had some porn, he may not care as much about Islam as hurting the West. Remember, he is Al-Queda's former spiritual leader.
I think the poll was flawed because the people polled were asked leading questions and given a choice of vague answers the Mail then misrepresented the results originally in 2008 and again in I think it was 2009 might have been 2010, making it sound like they were reporting something new from Wikileaks, when all Wikileaks did was repeat the what the Daily Mail had printed about the original poll results.
Read my original response where I went into more detail.
Sure..., except for the honor killings and stoning adulterers to death and caning women who have been raped and chopping a thieve's hand off..., yeah..., very peaceful. Why do you ask ;)
Don't go around speaking of what you do not know, "honor killings and stoning adulterers to death and caning women who have been raped" are all misconceptions, in Islam, none of those are applied. Islam is a religion of peace and justice, you just chose to see nothing more than what the media enforces on you.
Generally, I think so. People of any race, religion, or creed all have a dark side and a good side.
I think that Islam has been mis represented by mainstream media, and while I don't think any religious group is without their faults, I don't think that people of the Islamic faith are any more violent then (for example) Christians. From my experience, Christians tend to be more radical in thought then other mainstream religions... This is only a personal observation, however.
I am amazed at how little people know about Islam. So many are judging every Muslim by what a small majority do. The evidence is obvious. There are millions of Muslims, if the majority were violent the world would be a lot more corrupt. It isn't though. There are Muslims who have done terrible crimes. They don't to them because Islam is their religion. They do them because they're messed up and evil. It's like saying Christianity is not peaceful because many murderers are Christians. It's completely ridiculous. People who have not known Muslims can't see how peaceful we really are. You need to have personal experience with people before you judge.
Agreed completely. Added to that, the crime rates in western countries such as America are extremely higher. The majority there are Christians, does that mean that Christians are not peaceful? No, obviously. Same applies to Islam. Simple logic.
I'm assuming you're being sarcastic unless you're a violent creep. Many people stereotype Muslims as suicide bombers but that's where people are always wrong. The majority of Muslims are peaceful. Most Muslims think that what the suicide bombers are doing is wrong.
Lol, the ignorance and arrogance. These people actually belief Islam isn't peaceful! Meanwhile we got christian parents who have their kids kidnapped and indoctrinated by force because they think they might not believe god. Meanwhile these Christians wish hate upon a whole other group because of the actions of a VERY VERY few. Same Christians who support Israel who bomb and kill KIDS. Israel forced sterilization upon Ethiopian refugees, don't see that on mainstream propaganda, I mean media. Same Christians who want to force their beliefs on others through school. Same group who believe everything the TV tells them too!
It's violent and oppressive, strictly against advance. Look at Somalia this is how countries under Islam looks like, whole middle east looked like huge Somalia before westerners start utilizing that area.
I've replied to you before and I will reply again and again until you finally get some education about Islam and the world. You obviously don't know much at all. I don't like to be rude unless I have to but you seem really, really stupid. Islam isn't against advancing at all. In fact, Islam encourages advancing and learning (something you should consider doing.) Many of the Muslim countries have advanced a lot. UAE has the tallest building in the world, Burj Khalifa. The countries that have not yet advanced haven't because they are poor. In fact, they could really use your charity instead of your insults. Please do more research. This world needs educated people. Not people who assume that Somalia is poor because of Islam.
I agree with you completely, the view people have about the middle east is extremely mistaken, I live in Saudi Arabia, and guess what? We don't ride on camels nor do we live in tents.
All the tall buildings in UAE were build by German companies, Everything except of sand and camels that is in UAE had been imported. There are no schools or research for about 1000 years.
What. I was very shocked when I saw the winning position of this.. no? What kind of stereotypes are you walking around with? "All muslims are terrorist!" ?
There are so many different interpretations of the Koran! Some muslims are terrorist, yes. Some are. Some christians are too. Some humans are terrorist. Actually the meaning of "jihad" is not "holy war" it's "exerted effort".
It is indeed a shame to accuse a religion of being harmful, or having some sort of hidden agenda, just because some (again,SOME) are ruining it for others..
i think they are peaceful every religion believes in what they have been taught as i know that Muslims do not bomb areas and all the things people have been going on about. what i mean is everyone believes in what they believe you can not change that
The majority of Muslims are peaceful. I wouldn't even consider the terrorists to be Muslims because they break huge rules of Islam. Both killing innocent people and suicide are strictly forbidden in Islam. Many Muslims agree with me that they are not proper Muslims. I live and come from a Muslim country. I have always been told that the people there are kind and respectful (the people who say this are American Christians.) Many famous protesters for peace are Muslim. An example is Malcolm X. There is evil everywhere but it's not because of the religion.
In theory it is a somewhat peaceful religion, but in practice; it creates fanatics and zealots who are often times violent. If u look at the religion alone, it is mostly peaceful, but by comparison, it is violent. Killing infidels in exchange for virgins? C'mon, that's pretty crude and violent.
Islam is peaceful, the word Islam even orginatis from the word "salam" which means Peace. You should have a wider preview of Islam than that you see on the media. Just as there is Christians who are criminals, there are Muslims who are too, except if one does such in Islam, then they are not counted as Muslims. We are all humans, we all make mistakes.
Islam is a religion of peace, in and of itself. It prohibits any killing of innocents, and states clearly that only God may give and take lives. It is only permitted for people to kill if it is in self defense, as were the Prophet's ghazawat (for the kufar were killing and torturing Muslims), or if the subject has agreed to live under the Muslim shari'a. For example, Islam never, ever states that we must kill those of another religion. In fact, we have a chapter (sura) that says:
"Say (to them), O you who reject faith, I worship not that which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that which you worship, nor will you worship that which I worship, to you your own religion, and to me my own religion."
This sura is all about religious tolerance, especially where it says, "to you your own religion, and to me my own religion". This clearly states that everyone has the freedom to follow whatever religion they please.
and states clearly that only God may give and take lives.
This is not true.
Quran:And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
If they fight you slay them? Is that God it is talking about doing the slaying?
It appears you may have only skimmed through what I said, instead of actually reading through it. I stated clearly that killing may be used in self defense, for the Muslims were being killed and tortured in their homeland.
In all honesty, I must thank you, for you brought one of the ayat that state this very thing.
First, it is taken out of context, but if one reads on they will find the true meaning. It states, "for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter", and this refers to the time when the kufar were killing, torturing, and oppressing the Muslims. God is saying that it is in their right to kill those oppressors.
"But fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them"
This is also another portrayal of my meaning. God states that fighting in the Mosque is forbidden, for it is a place of prayer. And again, he goes over how if they fight first, then you fight back. I don't see where you were disputing my point.
It appears you may have only skimmed through what I said, instead of actually reading through it. I stated clearly that killing may be used in self defense, for the Muslims were being killed and tortured in their homeland.
You also stated clearly that only God may give and take life. So, which is it?
Most islamic people are peaceful. There are just a few who commit acts of terror under the name of their religion. Most islamic people detest what they do, and those terrorists acts make the majority of islamic people look bad when they aren't.
Islam is the second name of god. God never allowed voilence. But few separatist misuse the name of islam for political or personal benifit , they divert the direction of action of unmatured or soft minded person into corrupt planing. Becouse of few narrow minded muslims the name of islam and honesty of all muslims spoiled.
As peaceful as every other religion. BUT TERRORISTS! Meanwhile in Irahell... http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ Ethopian refugees were forced to be sterilized and their children are brainwashed to believe all Christians are evil(some allies huh?). Palestinians can't ride the same buses, looks like pre civil rights era america except these Palestinians are bombed, killed, kidnapped and removed from their homes.
Surah Al Humazah is 104 Surah and found in the 30th Parah of the Holy Quran. This Surah contains 9 verses 35 words 134 letters, and it is revealed in “Makka” so referred as the “Makki” Surah. And this surah is called The Slanderer.
Islam is just a tool. It can only be as violent as the person practicing it.
I'm on this side because I don't think Islam is intrinsically a religion of non-violence. Violence can be easily justified in the Quaran, therefore if you're a violent Muslim you are by no stretch of the imagination accurately following Islam. Islam doesn't preach peace in all circumstances; it preaches violence sometimes. Compared to Jainism, for example, Islam is not itself peaceful.
Honestly, Id say that it isnt. When they do bombings and attacks, they say.. "In the name of allah".. I dont think that it is peaceful, but then they do believe in their god, so I have nothing against that.
Durka durka muhammad JIHAD!!! BOOM!. No. It says that it is the "religion of peace". Thats a load of bullshit. Its clearly the most violent religion in existence, trumped only by christianity (only based on its bloody past), especially from a modern day perspective. In sanscrit the word islam means "submit". Its a religion that controls the population by brutal force, submitance, and repression of natural rights. The doctrines it preaches are nothing but evil.
The muslims are a sick and twisted race of bronze age criminals out of place in a modern world. The middle east is a vile cesspool of evil. They murder, rape, and torture all who dont follow their ways. They have a bloody past, present, and future. They should be cleansed from this earth.
So if you need life saving surgery and the only person able to do it is a Muslim are you then going to suggest they be cleansed from the earth? You sound no better than some of the hate preaching Immams you complain about
Majority of Muslims lives in countries crippled by Islam, they do have have actual medical schools and rarely their "qualification" is recognized in the western world.
There are also many Muslims who were born and raised in the West many of whom become Doctors, Surgeons, Dentists and Dental Surgeons so its actually quite easy to find one I know a few
it's all about the likeliness that some event happens Muslim surgeon or gypsy cardiologist both are possible but because of the general lifestyle of both groups and the little thing that they aren't really a hardworking/studying people...
You obviously dont know any Muslims the majority of the ones I have met from Kitchen Porter to Surgeon have been very hard working/studying and I will warn you now if you call me a liar again my replies will not be so polite
I'm a foreign student living in Cardiff (Wales). I live in house share for couple of years. Apart of one Polish guy there were with me just and only immigrants from Middle East "students" and "refugees". It's cheap just £200/month with energies. Trust me they behave very differently outside the house, smiling helpful... but it's just part of the "game" they do hate you. I remember celebrations when British soldiers were shot in Iraq. Telling me that I end up in hell, occasional beating girls for talking to me, repetitive tries to buy my passport for their "family members" who cannot get visa, being angry on for passing around one of them when he was praying because "the prayer will not make it into heaven if non believer or women passes in front of him", weird visits bringing videos with guys screaming some shit in Arabic (probably) ... plenty of insane stuff in 4 years... I can write a book about it.
I'm not going to debate the rest of this statement since I happen to agree with most of it, well... except maybe the middle east part. Gotta remember Israel, ya know.
As for the comment on Christianity, I'm assuming you mean the Crusades, and Catholicism. You and I both know that Catholicism isn't Christianity. So that's not going to work for that argument.
Also, I'm fairly sure the word you're looking for is 'submission', not submitance. And I'm not being rude or anything either. We all typo, after all. Unless the word comes from some other country then I have no clue. shrug
Have you ever even gone to the middle east? You obviously have't. Since it is nothing of what you speak off. In sanscrit the word Islam means "Submit" ? What have we to do with sanscrit again? Go back to Arabic, the original language of Islam, where it means Peace.
I am a Muslim, and guess what? I've never murdered, raped nor have I tortured any of my non Muslim friends. I have all my natural rights, and I've never been brutally forced into anything. You obviously know nothing about Islam nor about Muslims, seems you were to busy blindly following whatever the social media wishes you to see. Last but not least, I am a Muslim and I am peaceful.
I researched it, true, it does mean Submission in sanskrit. One who submits is a Muslim, and submission to Allah will bring peace, what's so wrong about that? I must add, this is besides the point, is that all you have to defend your argument? It's just sad, following the blind stereotypes that the media enforces on ignorant people.
I didnt think that argument sent. My ipod sucks...
One who submits to allah brings peace. Whats wrong with that? WHATS WRONG WITH THAT?! So youre saying its great if we all throw our cognative reasoning in the garbage and blindly follow the ideals of bronze age primitives?
Even if it did bring "peace" that is NO society id ever want to live in.
And it wouldnt bring peace! Have you read the damn Quran? There is so much evil that is in that book that it corrupted the entire middle east!
Peace through blind submittance is wrong. I shouldnt even have to explain why.
And stop bitching about the "media". sure fox news isnt exactly unbiased not reliable but it's pretty damn hard to depict what is happening in the middle east in a MORE fucked up way. And it takes about 30 seconds of internet research beyond that to find that and much much more. Or you could cut straight to the chase and pick up the Quran. You dont need to go any farther than that to understand.
It's not blind submittance, it all makes sense, everything has an explanation. Following Islam doesn't mean you have to "throw your congantive reasoning in the garbage". In fact, all it takes is some reasoning, to see the truth.
The Quran does not contain "evil", added to that the middle east is not "corrupted", you should come here, you have no idea.
So you were educated in the belief sets of a few other religions and CHOSE islam after the age of say 12 of your own personal decision? Not likely...
it all makes sense, everything has an explanation. Following Islam doesn't mean you have to "throw your congantive reasoning in the garbage".
Explain how your god exists. Explain why theres ZERO evidence for him. Explain why Mohammad needed a flying horse to get to heaven. Explain why Jihad is holy. None of it makes any sense to a rational person.
In fact, all it takes is some reasoning, to see the truth
Okay lets use some good old fasioned logic to determine that.
First ill give you a run down of how logic works. Per this example:
You are being given information pertaining to the existence (or lack ther of) of animal X. Theres 2 sides, the ones for its existence, and those against. The side arguing for its existence has little to no solid evidence for it. They try to explain in non-sensical ways that really just end up leading to no conclusions. They have no physical evidence, no scientific evidence, nothing. Nothing...EXCEPT a napkin from 1941 that has a doodle in crayon of what is supposedly animal X.
The other side has tons of evidence against animal X. They point out the other sides lack of evidence. Then they show you the evolutionary chain that that animal would come from that shows it couldnt exist, ect ect ect.
So what is the logical thing to do here? Which one do you side with? I think we both know the answer. The one with the most supporting evidence.
Now back to islam. This example directly applies and i think you get the idea.
The Quran does not contain "evil", added to that the middle east is not "corrupted", you should come here, you have no idea
And on another note, how hipocritical of you to call people who just watch the news "ignorant" at least the news contains facts. You worship a magical skydaddy with ZERO, count em ZERO shreds of evidence for his existence, dreamed up by bearded fools in a desert over A THOUSAND YEARS AGO. You slam your face into a carpet 5 TIMES A DAY (im assuming). And for what? What some book told you you get after you die?
You say there's no evidence if his existence? If you were smart enough, you'd know that many of the scientific facts in the Quran have been later on proven by scientists all over the world. The quran is over a thousand years old, yet it has information that has only been discovered recently. It is obviously not "dreamed up".
Added to that, I don't "slam my face into a carpet" I pray, because it brings peace to my heart. If you take the time to look at the miracles around you, how did they come to exist? You think everything just exists like that? No, Allah is the one who created it. It doesn't take much to see that there is logic in everything in Islam, if you weren't too busy trying to criticize things you do not understand, and do not even try to.
Peace out, may Allah guide you out of your ignorance. Salam al-kum (Peace to you)
There is no tangible, physical evidence. No scientific evidence that says he exists, no historical evidence, and so on. Zip. Zero. Nada. That "scientific evidence" came from minds of men. It can't be proven that any god provided that information. That's like me making a scientific breakthrough and someone saying "oh a magical pink elephant told him that". No, there's no eviden e for that.
Pray, for peace? Or because you're told to? To me, Islamic prayer looks like a monotone brainwashed submitance to Allah. It doesn't look like its providing peace. It looks stressfull if anything. And if it was once a day mandated then that would be okay, but FIVE times? Why the hell does the divine creator of the universe need all these people bowing to him every day over and over? It makes no sense. It's clearly a tool installed in the faith to constantly reinforce belief in the faith through which the leaders get their control.
Oh goodie the "miracles" argument. I look around and I see the results of natural processes that have been proved by science and suggest NO presence of supernatural causes.
Allah created it? Prove it. Proooooove it.
I understand Islam. It's just one of many MANY supernatural beliefs with no evidence supporting them and no reasons to believe. I don't have to know every little fine point and detail because I know that it's fundamentally FALSE.
Have you ever even gone to the middle east? You obviously have't. Since it is nothing of what you speak off. In sanscrit the word Islam means "Submit" ? What have we to do with sanscrit again? Go back to Arabic, the original language of Islam, where it means Peace.
Considered to be the oldest language in human history, Sanskrit is the progenitor and inspiration for virtually every language spoken in India.
Oldest language in human history. You are wrong. Arabic altered the translation whether intentionally or by accident.
am a Muslim, and guess what? I've never murdered, raped nor have I tortured any of my non Muslim friends. I have all my natural rights, and I've never been brutally forced into anything.
I never said that ALL muslims murder, rape, ect. Though under quite a few circumstances outlined in your holy book you technically are alowed to. The reason you dont do these things is because im assuming you live in a 1st world country like America or the UK, ect that has effectively neutered religions that promote such barbaric things through means of a secular government and social morals.
In christianiity for example it is not equated with murder and genocide because it has been tamed. The places where it exists today do not allow it to be practiced the way it was say 2000 years ago. So, the majority of christians are not crazy religious literalist psychopaths carrying out the commands of god such as killing people who work on sundays. There is a minority that does. For instance the WBC. But this is a VERY small minority.
With Islam, it's entirely backwards. The crazy religious literalist psychopath population of it is the VAST MAJORITY, residing in places like Iran and Afghanistan. Places, that not only allow rape and murder, but ENCOURAGE it through state law because they have theocracys.
What im saying is, YOU and the rest of the muslims living in the 21st century have been neutered or unexposed to the mindset that is present in places like Iran, and therfore are the peacefull minority that was able to adapt, wheras the MAJORITY of muslims live in the bronze age, raping, murdering, jihading, mistreating women, and so on and so forth.
You obviously know nothing about Islam nor about Muslims, seems you were to busy blindly following whatever the social media wishes you to see. Last but not least, I am a Muslim and I am peaceful.
And YOU are blind to what you dont WANT to see. You dont WANT to see how insane your religion is when "let off the chain" so to speak. The havoc it reaks. The pain and death it brings with it wherever it goes. This is undenyable FACT. Islam is not peacefull by and stretch of the imagination. Anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed or LYING.
You can call something whatever you want to but that doesnt change what it really is. If you call a turd a diamond does that make it a diamond? No. It's still shit. If you call genocide, a peacefull practice, does that make it peacefull? No! This "religion of peace" illusion is just a label. It's what muslims throw at people who call them out as some kind of scapegoat that never works.
You may not be evil, but your religion is. If you give it its balls back you can see how twisted and delusional it is. Have you even read your "holy book"?
Dont get me wrong, Christianity is no better. if you go back a couple hundred years it looks pretty much the same as islam. Basically all abrahamic religions are fundamentally evil. Used as tools for power, control, and money, feeding off the weak minds of people. Theyre all wrong. Theyre all stupid. They all belong in the trash
I don't live in "1st world country" actually, I live in Lebanon, a middle east country, shocking no? I am pretty sure that Quran does not encourage rap nor murder on any level. Countries that follow the law of Islam, have much less homicides and rap occurrences, again, if only you research well.
Added to that, let's say I were to say something such as.
He hurt me. I will hurt him.
If you only took that second sentence, it's easy to put the blame on me. Don't you think so?
Actually the vast majority of practicing Muslims, are normal human beings. Come to think of it, if the vast majority were rapists and criminals and so on, I believe the world would have been in greater corruption, considering there are plenty of Muslims. You seem like some mind controlled robot, programmed to not see any common sense.
You speak English, you have a mobile device or computer, you're not a 3rd world country. Not comparable to Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan by any means.
Might I also add that it is not an Islamic state or at least one that is comparable by any means to the countries I stated before:
Lebanon celebrates national and both Christian and Muslim holidays. Christian holidays are celebrated following both the Gregorian Calendar and Julian Calendar. Greek Orthodox (with the exception of Easter), Catholics, Protestant, and Melkite Christians follow the Gregorian Calendar and thus celebrate Christmas on 25 December. Armenian Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas on 6 January, as they follow the Julian Calendar. Muslim holidays are followed based on the Islamic lunar calendar. Muslim holidays that are celebrated include Eid al-Fitr (the three-day feast at the end of the Ramadan month), Eid al-Adha (The Feast of the Sacrifice) which is celebrated during the annual pilgrimage to Mecca and also celebrates Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son to God,the Birth of the Prophet Muhammad, and Ashura (the Shiite Day of Mourning). Lebanon's National Holidays include Workers Day, Independence day, and Martyrs Day.
No Islamic state would EVER recognize Christian holy days let alone allow them to be celebrated. Your country (if you actually live there) is completely incomparable to the heavily Islamic states of the Middle East where the things I'm refering to take place. From its creation your country has been a cultural mix which allows tolerance amongst various religious groups, unlike many other countries.
Muslims are a vast minority in the 1st world (US Britain, Germany, ect.) so any corruption would not affect these countries very much at all. Not to mention, should these people be living in these places, they would be under an Islam that has been neutered as u stated previously and would not be subject to orders from corrupt leaders using the religion as a control tool. That argument is irrational.
I'm not saying many Muslims rape and kill and so on. But they have in their minds at this very moment that should they do it, it is JUSTIFIABLE under the Quran. Which I would argue is just as dangerous. Watch the film "Not Without My Daughter", it provides an inside look at life in Iran raw. There is no media bias. Or better yet, go there. It is insanity.
And you must be joking. The Quran doesn't encourage murder?
Read up pal. It says if you rape a woman then you have to marry her thus making it okay. It says kill unbelievers as many as you can. Kill gays. And in one passage Allah asks Mohammad if he can think of any greater form of praise to Allah than jihad and Muhammad says no. It is more fucked up than the bible. Saying otherwise is absurd. If you do so you're in denial.
Also it's cute how you can't even address the problem that your god may not even EXIST in the first place.
actually, in the Quran it says : (لكم دينكم و لي ديني) which means, you have your religion and i have mine, furthermore it means that islam is a religion that accepts all other religions and does not state that you should kill those who do not believe in Allah. Also, as a matter of fact, Islam does not have anything to do with killing people who have done nothing wrong to you. Its not like we go on the street and murder everyone who does not follow Allah..we respect other people and all other religions, we do not judge people based on what they believe and we, the real muslims have nothing to do with terrorism or killing people for no reason.
Scroll down a bit youll find the part about killing other religions/non believers.
You "real" muslims have been effectively neutered by a 21st century society. Im guessing you live in a more culturally advanced place seeing as you have access to a computer or smart phone. The US or Britain for instance. Places like this have laws that completely restrict the practices of such barbaric things like genocide and intolerance towards gays and pretty much anyone but muslims. It is a pacified islam.
Much of the middle east, however, has none of these laws. Islam IS the law, and it hasnt restricted itself. So what we view as horrible things (because were not bronze age barbarians) are every day natural occurances and completely justifed to them.
The Bible that you love so much also calls for violence and death to people who dont behave and with Christianities bloody history you are hardly in a position to judge other religions and can you remember what Jesus said about judging others?
That was in the OT which you don't understand that its for the Jews. (I keep saying that but everyone thinks that it pertains to Christians as well) Where does it say in the New Testament that Jesus commanded people to kill in His name? I don't think He said anything about that.
Yeah I understand what Jesus said about judging others but I was stating the facts and what its says in Muslim Bible (Quran) and yet you think I am judging them? I learned theses facts from a guy who told me them because he studied the Islamic religion.
He did'nt study it very well, it says you should only kill in self defense, you say the Bible only mention's killing in the OT which does not apply to you but you told me when you were trying to defend homophobia that it is against the Bible and quoted OT scripture, you also dont believe in evolution and that God built the world in a week again an OT story. Make up your mind you cannot pick and choose what you believe and what you dont to suit you or whatever argument your trying to defend.
And Anime you say that the Bible should not be mentioned in a debate concerning religion, why not Srom uses it to defend nearly all of his arguments why cant the rest of us?
If it was in self defense then how come its says to kill infidels or people who don't believe in allah in the Quran? The only thing I listen to in the OT is the prophecies of Christs coming to earth and His second coming, I also listen to the Creation, and the Ten Commandments which I still apply to this very day but I don't go with the Leviticus and Numbers Laws because those are strictly for the Jews. . I will occasionally read the history of Israel back then.
Then you have no reason for your Homophobia, as Christ did not preach against Homosexuality and other than the mistranslation of Christs teachings on the subject the only anti Homosexual stuff is in the OT, which you have used in debates before
He did preach against homosexuality that is why Paul wrote it down in 1st Corinthians 6:9 that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of heaven like idolaters, nor homosexuals, etc but if they repent and fall away from there sin and do no more than they will be in heaven.
In the OT it talks about stoning but I only used that once I believe but now I use the NT version that they won't go to heaven because its more modern.
I've told you many times that what Christ preached was mistranslated but you would'nt listen then and I doubt you'll listen now but we are getting away from the point of this debate
The bible has nothing to do with this debate stop attacking him just for his belifs thats not right esspecially since it has nothing to do with this debate
No it isnt a bad form of debate, I enjoy debating with people who dont believe in what I believe. But, the debate is about Islam religion, not our religion, which is Christianity... So why bring up our religion or evidences of our religion, all the time? The Quoran, is that what they call it? Is different from our Bible.
I'm sorry if a Christian can use the Bible to defend their stance on debates that have nothing to do with Christianity they can't complain when the Bible is used to argue against them.
it says you'll burn in hell if your not christian in the bible! what is the fucking difference! excuse my language but you all need to get your minds right before saying ignorant garbage like this! edit @srom
why would god care if i believe in him, why does he take attendance? real love is making sure the other person is happy. If god exists he doesn't love me, or you, or anyone. live by your own rules. And if god wants to eternally punish me for not believing in him he can go for it.
He wants to have a plan for you to get into heaven. He doesn't want you to go to hell. I am happy for what God has done for me and my family and I thank Him everyday. He does love everyone because that is what He did on the cross for you and I so that we can have a chance to be with God for the rest of our lives with Him in eternity, and I am no longer a slave to sin because I accepted Jesus into my life.
And if god wants to eternally punish me for not believing in him he can go for it.
Are you sure you want God to send you to hell? Is that your answer? You won't like it when your in hell. Hell is a sad and terrible place to go to. I feel bad for the people who are in it right now at the moment because its a place of sorrow and constant mourning and torture. Do you want to go to that place where its constant mourning, sorrow, torture and pain? Would like to be there for the rest of eternity?
I know what the Quran says because in one of the verse in their it says you should kill infidels or non belivers if they don't believe in allah and I know a lot about Islam that must muslims don't even look in their Quran.
Really? It says that? Then show me where it does? Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't, in fact it says "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." http://quran.com/109 . Which clearly shows that Islam respects all other religions, it does not call for killing on any degree.
I will show you it when I find it in the future. If Islam respects all other religions then why in other arab countries are muslims killing Christians and persecuting them? If they were peaceful they wouldn't kill any Christians at all but they do so they aren't peaceful.
I got this information off of a TV show that has news about Islam. Like the muslims want the muslim flag to be flying above the White House and you want guys want it to be the number 1 religion.
The muslims are a sick and twisted race of bronze age criminals out of place in a modern world. The middle east is a vile cesspool of evil. They murder, rape, and torture all who dont follow their ways. They have a bloody past, present, and future. They should be cleansed from this earth.
I don't combat evil with more evil, so I could never get behind this.
Also the Middle East isn't quite as thoroughly evil as you make it out to be. America, for example, has a high number of obese people (one of the highest in the world) but that doesn't mean everyone here is a fatass. Similarly, there might be a disproportionate percentage of fanatics in the Muslim world, but that doesn't mean all Muslims are terrorists.
We can clearly see in what condition are societies based on Islam, there is no doubt that women are not equal to men. Also things like capital punishment for adultery or leaving Islam are commonly applied. Public hate speeches against democracy, freedom of speech, Jews done by Imams around whole world on daily bases.
Islam upholds women to the highest and most respected position. Where do you get your information from, Islam haters? or the social media that enforces such stupid ideas on ignorant people? When Islam was first known to mankind, women had no importance, they did not exist in the eyes of society, they had no rights. Islam gave them rights at a time were being a woman equaled nothing. Do better research, here's a link with proper information.
I mean, I have nothing against Islam, I have many Muslims friends (Sunni and Shitte), I've been to mosques, prayed with Muslims, to their god (I have no preference, not a follower of any major religion, all the same god to me) and have eaten with their families.... It's just a really violent (and sometime graphically violent) religion and it doesn't phase them, it's just in their culture; violence.
They are even violent amongst themselves, their own branches and sects cannot even refrain from killing and warring with one another. Throughout Islam's short history and from the time that the religion emerged, they have caused more chaos and destruction than any other major religion.
So are most Religions just look at the troubles in Northern Ireland just because Protestants and Catholics could'nt get on and you think that Islam had caused more destruction than say Christianity, you better re-check your history books, what about the Crusades, Witch Trials and burnings and Northern Ireland to name three off the top of my head
Yes, even more so than those examples, as well. My history is fine, you're the one who forgets that the Muslims were also part of the crusades. How many people died in the witch trials? Compare the numbers, I'll wait.... There is no comparison.
All religions have blood on their hands but it seems fashionable to single out Islam to be the boogeyman at the moment, I know the Muslims were involved in the Crusades but the Crusades were not their idea the Christians invaded Muslim lands to convert them, butchering people who stood in their way. I dont know who would come out with the higher death count between Christianity and Islam in the atrocity stakes but it would probably be close
Your argument is invalid and unsound. Lets pretend that you were accurate, though; it is not currently happening, so what you are saying is irrelevant..... Mr. Red Herring.
Forget it Ashman--you are dealing with deeply ignorant people who get their info from wingnut websites and Faux News.
Violence within Muslim cultures has to do with culture, not Islam. What if Muslims concluded that Christians shoot up elementary schools as part of their religion.
And whoever posted this question was just trying to provoke the same kind of stupid bullshit rants you see on right-wing crazies' websites.
Only just saw this cheers for the support, I know most of these idiots dont want to find anything out for themselves other than what they've been spoonfed by dodgy media but it is quite good fun using stuff they have used to support their arguments in other debates against them and pointing out the errors in what their "research"
The Qur'an directly calls for the killing of infidels, chopping off fingers and heads. Have you ever read the Hadith? (Kinda humorous, actually) it is an Islamic Holy book and the basis of a lot of Islamic law. “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57), how is this not violent!? Lol, seriously.
1. What EXACTLY does the verse about killing infidels say?
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
2. Who EXACTLY are the "infidels" in the Qur'an?
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
That first quote does not mention killing, it talks about fighting the unbeliever which could cover everything from killing to debating.
The second quote does mention killing yes but as has been pointed out the Bible talks frequently about killing people but also talks about drive them out from whence they drove you out and do not fight them in the sacred mosque until they fight you. Taking this literally I read this as self defense and reclaiming your land something which i'm sure a lot of religions support look at Israel.
It would also be interesting to read the quotes in context, taking a couple of quotes out of context will make them look bad but if these quotes when read in context meant fight people who invade your lands why would that make Islam a religion of violence. If an American Christian wants a gun to defend himself that is his right does that make him a violent person?
The Bible says if you find out your bride wasn't a virgin you should stone her to death and leave her corpse on her fathers doorstep. How many Christians do you know who have followed that nugget of ancient wisdom?
Most religious dogmas can be used to justify horrible atrocities, if the reader is so inclined; they can also be used to justify peace and charity and the like, if the reader is so inclined. So really it matters a whole lot more who is reading the book than what the book says.
The Hadith is a collection of writings from a long line of Islamic scholars. Hadith are separate from the Koran, and have been added to over the centuries by many, many people.
I mean, the religion itself was emerged from a extremely violent people, the ideologies reflect this. Maybe 90% of Muslims are not terrorist, but 90% of active terrorist are Muslims.
All religions come from violent people due to their age, back when Christianity first came about there were Jewish terrorists fighting against Roman occupation but Christianity is now most of the time a peaceful religion but for hundreds if not thousands of years it wasn't.
I find it hard to believe that 90% of terrorists worldwide are Muslim, also if 90% of Muslims are not terrorists does this not defeat your own argument
Nothings is peaceful these days, everything is screwed up and distorted. Yes Islam is a threat to the U.S., maybe other places in the world, but acts of violence through human beings sometimes have reasons behind them.
"Yes, Islam is a threat to the U.S., maybe other places in the world." This shows how uneducated some people are. Islam is not a threat. A religion is not an object or person. It can't threaten anything. You can't even say that Muslims are a threat because they aren't. Al-Qaeda are a threat. They do not represent the rest of us Muslims though. The majority of Muslims are peaceful. Many live in the US and are respectful and peaceful there. Maybe you should do some research before claiming that a religion isn't peaceful or a threat.
I didn't mean all of Islam were extremist, Religon CAN threaten someone, many theist attack atheist for not being believers. On opinion a larger majority of a factor rules over the other,maybe you should do some research on common sense my friend, a majority pentecostal-Chirstians attack homosexuality, many Muslims hate "culture" in general. How would you generalize The First Crusade? As I said All religons can be threats or be threathen.
I wasn't saying all of Islam are extremist, and religon can threaten someone. Many Pentecostal-Christians threaten homosexuality, many Muslims depise Western culture, many theist attack atheist for not being a believer, maybe you should do some research on common sense my friend. How would you classify the Crusades of the Knights Templars? And you said a majority of muslims aren't Al-Qaeda, you said that as if the Al-Qaeda was small, Al-Qaeda is a rather large organization. A larger Majority of a factor will rule over the other half or sides. As I said before, no one is innocent.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
[2:216] Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it.
[8:39] Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme
Islam? Peaceful? These are contradicting terms; never before has the world seen a larger cesspool of despair, hunger, corruption, war, and genocide under a particular Muslim rule. The Muslim religion allows for said corruption to not only survive, but to thrive. There is no doubt in my mind that there are peaceful Muslims out there, but, to be entirely honest, they're few and far between.
You should do some better research we are not "few" nor "far between" we are as common as oxygen in air. You chose to let the media guide you blindlessly. You obviously know nothing about Islam.
If a religion is truly peaceful, the more extreme a person follows it, the more peaceful they should become.
With religions like Islam, the opposite seems to be true.
Something like Jainism, I would say, is a religion of peace. The more fundamentalist or extremist a Jain becomes, the less likely they are inclined towards violence (accidentally stepping on an insect would be like committing a mortal sin to them).
You're absolutely right on this, of course. If anything, if their religion truly is peaceful, then the 'peaceful' muslims should be called the extremists, not the ones going around committing violent acts, etc.
Most individual Muslims are nice people but the extremely devote ones are the trouble makers. But that can be said for most religions. I believe that religion as a whole is anything but peaceful and should eventually be eliminated all together.
No, is anything but peaceful. They have no religious tolerence. That is why they are usually at war. Look at the Middle East, and most parts of africa, are they usually at peace? No, they are almost never at peace. Ill give you a challange go to any middle east country and say Muhammad was a liar and a phony. And lets see if you live to tell the story.
Yes I know not everybody is capable, but try to look what happens in the world and then think again whether islam is really peaceful. It's funny how muslims fail every single time to show how peaceful islam is when they need to.
Except they don't, you just don't bother to pay attention, then make outlandish, factually baseless claims like this predicted upon deeply rooted prejudice.
Then prove it. Prove that the Muslims have never been able to demonstrate peacefully or behave peacefully. And note that you do have to prove that they have never been able to, as the words you used were "every single time".
The fact that I have multiple recent examples means I already know that "factually" you are wrong, but I'll wait to see your response before proving it to you.
No condition is implied. If you do not provide a context for said statement, it can apply on its own. People often make references to an eternity or an entirety, such as "That always happens", or "Everyone does that". As the sender of the message, it is your responsibility to make sure that you convey it properly, otherwise receivers of said message only have the words that you have used to go by.
As the sender of the message, it is your responsibility to make sure that you convey it properly, otherwise receivers of said message only have the words that you have used to go by.
Yeah, I should have thought about the different mental capabilities, since you seem not to be the sharpest knife in the drawer.
I will ask you again: Why are you here? You clearly do not seem as though you wish to debate, seeing as how you either become defensive or insulting to those who disagree with you.
First, I am quite clearly not a troll, if you actually understand what a troll is.
Second, you do not know what my political ideology is, at all.
Third, I have not been dishonest in any way.
What you seem to be saying, and correct me if I am wrong, is that you will "debate" with people that share your opinions, and you will insult those that don't. If so (and your posts seem to indicate that) then this is not the website for you.
First, I am quite clearly not a troll, if you actually understand what a troll is.
Third, I have not been dishonest in any way.
You deny just everything like a five-year-old. That's certainly very grown-up.
Second, you do not know what my political ideology is, at all.
You are perpetually revealing it. It's plain to see.
What you seem to be saying, and correct me if I am wrong, is that you will "debate" with people that share your opinions, and you will insult those that don't.
Wrong again. There is really no point in going further. You live on another planet.
Please feel free to indicate how I have demonstrated "trolling".
You are perpetually revealing it. It's plain to see.
Then tell me specifically what my ideology is and how I have demonstrated it. It will be fun to see what you say (and please, I am talking about actual ideology, not "left wing radical" shtick).
Wrong again. There is really no point in going further. You live on another planet.
Then please, tell me how I am wrong.
Out of curiosity, I do have a legitimate question (I am specifying that since it seems you will otherwise assume it is a straw-man or a rhetorical question): I have noticed that multiple people from SodaHead seem to behave as you do. Not particularly inclined to debating, quick to dismiss others, and generally right-wing. Was SodaHead not a forum for debates, and if not, why come here now that the comments section was shut down?
Please feel free to indicate how I have demonstrated "trolling".
The definitions you cited define exactly your behavior. It's exactly what you do. You are not interested in a debate, you just target people who are not in the Church of Progressivism and try to "sow[s] discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion." (from your Wikipedia citation).
This entire thread was caused by me asking you about which form of Christianity you believed had real "Christian values". Your responded by attacking me over and over. I most certainly want to debate, and I would love for you to stop attacking me and instead just answer the question I have asked almost half a dozen times so we can get back to debating. You, on the other hand, have insisted upon insulting me in lieu of debating, which would ironically indicate that it is you, not I, that most closely resembles a troll. That said, I don't actually think you are a troll, I just don't think you have come here to debate those with differing opinions. I would be glad to be proven wrong if you want to simply answer the question I initially asked: Which form of Christianity do you believe holds the real "Christian values"?
I told you before there isn't more than one form of Christianity. Because there is only one Bible and 2 + 2 is always 4 (except for progressives in which case the answer is 5). So your question isn't valid in the first place.
You asked a cynical rhetorical question equating to "and what do you pick from Christianity". You did that with the intent of upsetting me. So don't indulge in projection, it's still you who is the troll.
I told you before there isn't more than one form of Christianity.
That is factually untrue. From Catholicism, to Eastern Orthodox, to the dozens of forms of Protestantism, to the Coptic Church, there are many forms of Christianity. There may be only one Bible (not technically true, since there are quite a few versions with different translations, some of which change passages meanings quite substantially), but there are many different interpretations of it. My question is completely valid: Which one of those many forms of Christianity do you adhere to and think has the valid form of Christian Values?
That is not cynical, as I have demonstrated multiple times, and it was not intended to upset you, as I demonstrated multiple times. It is incredibly arrogant to think you know my intent better than I do, and to accuse me of lying simply because you became defensive at implications that were not existent within my comments.
Can you be more specific as to what you mean by "2.0"? Do you mean to ask if I believe in the Theory of Relativity as it originally was, or the most "updated" concept of it? I suppose it is irrelevant, as I really do not know.
But I am hoping that your "fair enough" is you saying that you now understand that my original post was not meant to be antagonistic in any way, and if so, I really was wondering which "form" (I honestly don't know which term you would prefer, sect maybe? or affiliation) of Christianity you adhere to. I can understand if you believe it is the only true one, I am not trying to imply otherwise, I was just looking for an affiliation so I could better understand where your opinions on the matter were coming from.
Mohammed was a murdering pedophile. He told his followers to do what he did. Islamic terrorists are not radicals. They are conservatives. They do exactly what their prophet told them to do.
Of course it isn't. A peaceful religion wouldn't incite so much violence among it's followers. They only tell us it's peaceful so we won't stop them from their whole "the whole world will be Islam in 1000 years" quest.
Well, Islam as a whole is not that violent. In I have known affiliates who are Muslims and they are not such war freak. Islam as a whole is not violent and their philosophies encourage peace and brotherly love. I cannot prove it through passage since I am not a Muslim but through keen observation of their attitude well it tells a different story. Only Islam groups are violent whom have a different mindset on their religion. Plus external factors affect their violence like problems in family, land, money or etc.
