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Debate Info

10
9
Yes No
Debate Score:19
Arguments:16
Total Votes:27
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (7)
 
 No (7)

Debate Creator

BurritoLunch(2129) pic



Is Rap Music "More Poetic" Than Jazz?

Let me answer that for you.

Only if you have no understanding of music. 

For everybody who does understand music (i.e. namely actual musicians), the most expressive form of music ever invented is jazz.

Yes

Side Score: 10
VS.

No

Side Score: 9
SunTzuv2(94) Banned
1 point

It is. Jazz is actually one of the least poetic genres of all time, doesn't even have consistent rhythm patterns.

You could in a way compare the most 'wtf is this' freeform poetry to Jazz perhaps.

Jazz is brilliant in its own chaotic way, do not get me wrong, but if you enjoy poetry that is well-crafted and anywhere near the best of its kind, your brain and taste in things will be in conflict to what Jazz is to music. In Jazz you fight against any structure at all, no stanzas, barely ever lyrics to songs at all (if it's there it's proably blues not jazz) and in general you are dealing with one of the most anti-vocal anti-structure genres of music of all time.

Side: Yes
2 points

In Jazz you fight against any structure at all, no stanzas, barely ever lyrics to songs at all

You literally do not have the first clue what you are talking about.

Fly Me To The Moon - Frank Sinatra
Side: No
seanB(890) Disputed
2 points

Poetry is about words, so I would say that rap is de facto more poetic than jazz: jazz is rarely about words, if ever.

Can you rephrase your question in a less semantically-boxed way?

Side: Yes
1 point

It is. Jazz is actually one of the least poetic genres of all time

Thanks for the typical incredibly ridiculous statement of fact absent any evidence whatsoever to support it. If that is what you think debate is then no problem. You are actually one of the least intelligent people of all time.

Side: No
1 point

Jazz is brilliant in its own chaotic way, do not get me wrong

It is the most expressive form of music for artists and it always has been. This is known to literally everybody who has ever studied music or musical theory in any capacity whatsoever. I guess we'll go right ahead and strike you off that list.

Side: No
Aether777(53) Banned
-1 points

If you don't understand that rap is more poetic, than you don't understand what poetry is. You are literally claiming that something which usually has no lyrics or relatively minimalistic ones and is famous for nonsense words is more poetic than one of the only styles of music which is actually a form of poetry to an equal extent that it is a form of music.

You do not get to be so anal about everyone's terminology and grammar while you allow yourself the "poetic license" to conflate the word poetry with the word music.

Side: Yes
1 point

If you don't understand that rap is more poetic, than you don't understand what poetry is.

Then.

You want to tell us about poetry, but you don't understand the basics of your own language. Do you see how that might be a problem?

Side: No

So on the one side we have Sinatra.

And on the other we have NWA.

"Fly me to the Moon. Let me play amongst the stars."

Versus...

"Straight out of Compton. A crazy motherfucker named Ice Cube."

I hope normal people can understand why I banned these two idiots.

Side: No
NickiMinaj(2) Disputed Banned
0 points

Why are you judging two entire genres by two very cherry picked lines from two cherry picked songs within those genres?

Side: Yes
1 point

Jazz has been the root and trunk from which most other forms of popular music branched off.

Jazz will always exist long after such music as 'The Boogie'' ''The Charleston'' , ''Rock and Roll'' and ''Rap'' have come and gone.

Side: No
seanB(890) Disputed
1 point

Actually, blues and classical were the roots, of not only most popular music, but also of jazz. Blues evolved from slave songs and aural tradition. It did not use typical music theory and wasn't disseminated via scores, but via word of mouth and family heritage. While classical was highly structured and often functioned as a study of the nature of what music actually is, and how it is layered and posed.

Jazz took the freedom of blues, infused it with European musical theory and moulded into a study of challenging that theory with unusual ideas.

If blues was the theory-less music, and European classical was theory-full music, then jazz was using blues to challenge the European theoretical paradigm with new ideas.

Blues became, then, to pop, what classical became to jazz.

(And Queen did both, together, just sayin').

Side: Yes
BurritoLunch(2129) Clarified
1 point

Actually, blues and classical were the roots, of not only most popular music, but also of jazz.

You're absolutely right about blues. Classical music isn't used in pop much. At least not these days. It's too technical and focused on individual and/or collective musicianship. Pop music is about rhythm and repetition (i.e. "catchiness").

If blues was the theory-less music

Blues is very much grounded in musical theory. What the blues players did was take the five note minor pentatonic scale and infuse it with an extra "blue" note (i.e. the flat fifth of the scale), which they then used to improvise over a 1-4-5 shuffle. Add to that lots of string bending and you end up with a very expressive form of music.

Side: Yes
1 point

Good to see I was able to lure Nom's alts out from below his rock.

Two things I want to know is, who does he think he's kidding and what makes him think that anyone gives a 2 cent tram ticket what he states?

Side: No