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Debate Info

58
44
Her body. Some other living entity.
Debate Score:102
Arguments:107
Total Votes:128
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 Her body. (48)
 
 Some other living entity. (30)

Debate Creator

joecavalry(37867) pic



Is abortion something a woman does to her body or to some other living entity?

I guess we have to show that the fetus is only part of the mother so that she can have it removed as one would remove a wart.

We also have to show that the fetus is NOT part of the father so that we can claim that the father has no claim, no rights, no interest, no say in the life/fate of the fetus and that ONLY the mother has the final say in the life/fate of the fetus.

Do you remember this debate?

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ What camefirsttheChickenortheegg

In there it talks about the whether the egg shell belongs to the fetus or the mother and whether the eggshell is just a container.

I would argue that the uterus is part of the mother.

I would also argue that the uterus is a container.

I would then argue that the fetus is not part of the father. Just because the father contributed sperm, does NOT mean that the fetus is part of the father.

I would then argue that the fetus is not part of the mother either. I mean, just because she contributed the egg does not mean that the fetus is part of her body. What holds true for the father, holds true for the mother. And science backs me up on this. The mother's immune system would kill the fetus if it weren't for the placenta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunetolerancein_pregnancy

"The placenta functions as an immunological barrier between the mother and the fetus, creating an immunologically privileged site."

If it were not for the placenta, the mother's immune system would kill the fetus. The fetus is its own entity. Once the egg and the sperm fuse, it is no longer part of the father and it is no longer part of the mother. it is its own entity.

But... if the fetus is its own entity, and it is not part of the mother, it cannot be compared to a wart. When the mother has a fetus removed, she is not doing something to her body, she is doing something to another living entity.

 

Her body.

Side Score: 58
VS.

Some other living entity.

Side Score: 44
1 point

But... if the fetus is its own entity, and it is not part of the mother, it cannot be compared to a wart. When the mother has a fetus removed, she is not doing something to her body, she is doing something to another living entity.

That does not exactly give the full picture. The fetus cannot exist without the mother. The mother can exist without the fetus. So it is not as simple as claiming it is distinct entity.

Side: Her body.
Amarel(4984) Disputed
3 points

After babies are born they cannot continue to exist without parental care, but they are distinct entities.

Side: Some other living entity.
HarvardGrad(174) Disputed
2 points

But that's not exactly being charitable to his implication. In his scenario the fetus is dependent upon the woman's body (thus giving her the right to rid of it), whereas in the afterbirth scenario the baby is dependent upon whomever.

And if you mean 'distinct' as in they are both 'persons' then this would just be a (contentious) presupposition.

Side: Her body.
flewk(1192) Disputed
1 point

The fetus can only sustain itself by leeching from the mother (at least until science figures it out).

A baby can be taken care of by anyone.

One is necessary to survival, the other is just parental duty.

Side: Her body.

According to the description, clearly it is some other living entity.

Side: Some other living entity.
0 points

It's still inside her body. Therefore she can remove it from her body if she wishes. A tapeworm is another living entity but a woman can still remove it from her body. Furthermore a fetus in the stage of pregnancy of which abortion is allowed, is alive in the same way a plant is alive. It is not alive as in sentient.

Side: Her body.
flewk(1192) Disputed
3 points

Furthermore a fetus in the stage of pregnancy of which abortion is allowed, is alive in the same way a plant is alive. It is not alive as in sentient.

"Sentience" is debatable.

Plants can feel pain and respond to it. Plants can communicate with one another. Plants can even emit sounds at volumes proportional to damage done.

Side: Some other living entity.

I take it that you are not a vegetarian ;)

Side: Her body.
2 points

That is not the question. The question is "Is abortion something a woman does to her body or to some other living entity?"

We are not discussing the morality or the legality of the practice of the abortion, we are just accessing what it is.

You comment shows that even though you support abortion, you agree that it is not targeting her body as you describe the mother and the fetus as two separate organisms.

As for the fetus not being alive because it is not sentient, that is wrong. Life and sentience are two different things. Sentience is not one of the requirements of life, as described in any biology 101 class.

Side: Some other living entity.
3 points

What part of a woman's body is removed during an abortion? Enough said. Fools.

Side: Some other living entity.
1 point

Good question. The baby is not part of the mother's body. He or she has its own genetic code that is seperate from that of both parents.

Side: Some other living entity.
JustIgnoreMe(3589) Clarified
3 points

I think it is an interesting question, but it would not be relevant using the logic of self-defense. People can legally defend themselves from things attacking them which can't survive without them - e.g. parasites, etc. and people can defend themselves from other people.

Side: Her body.
0 points

Thank you, I agree. I make an exception for the life of the mother or if the baby will die anyway.

Side: Some other living entity.
flewk(1192) Disputed
0 points

Genetic difference does not separate two organisms. Certain endosymbiotes will perish without one another. They cannot be separated.

Side: Her body.
Sitar(3682) Disputed
2 points

Life begins at fertilization when the baby is genetically different than both parents.

Side: Some other living entity.