CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
You can share this debate in three different ways:
#1
#2
#3
Paste this URL into an email or IM:
Click here to send this debate via your default email application.
Click here to login and CreateDebate will send an email for you.
Is discrimination still a problem today?
Describe where you still see discrimination today. Do you believe its a problem we need to fix, or should there be more. Are certain places worse then others with this issue. Whats the best way to solve this issue. What are some major contributers to this issue.
Discrimination is as big a problem as it was fifty or even a hundred years ago. The only thing that has changed is who is being discriminated against.
Today people who don't have a college degree are being discriminated against, because too many people are looking for work. Employers are simply using a degree to eliminate potential employees without looking beyond this. This is discrimination.
Small business people are being discriminated against when bidding on new projects. Governments and large corporations set the requirements to bid at levels not obtainable by small businesses. Take a job that is estimated to be subcontracted to the winning bid in the neighborhood of $10,000, for example. The liability insurance for this job used to only require a half a million dollar policy, now this same job may require a two million dollar or more policy. If a small business has only a $200,000 gross income, they can't afford the liability insurance for this job. Where as a large corporation that bids against them takes in 2 billion dollars a year gross income, can afford the insurance. The insurance for both the small business and corporation are the same price.
well ok i agree discrimination is a problem but not against people without degrees. A businesses job is not to provide jobs but to provide service and make money. to make money they have to choose who to accept. they choose people with degrees because they are proven to know something. don't down vote rebut maybe there are some exceptions.
The only thing that separates two people is a degree, then it is discrimination. A piece of paper does not make one person more intelligent than another.
The reason that human resources hire people with degrees is because they are not smart enough to determine intelligence on their own. They must rely on the competence of others (diploma), because they lack any competence of their own.
To protect their own neck they simply pass blame or credit on the institution, not on their own judgment.
thats the point these people are seperated by a degree. one has one and the other doesn't. what is a degree? its proof someone knows something. its not a piece of paper. well ok technically it is but it represents years of post secondary education. it shows that the person is educated. if someone doesn't have the degree how can you know if there educated? from a job interview. that one sit down and is not a reliable reflection of their intelligence. the only reliable proof of intelligence is their education. so if one person has a degree and the other does not it its not discrimination. to say that is like saying the nfl is discriminatory against people who don't play football. they may say they can play, but the only way to prove it is a history on a football team.
To rule one out just based upon a piece of paper and nothing else is discrimination. Experience should always be a factor regardless of formal education, because it is the best method on learning.
“Most of the learning in use, is of no great use. Ben Franklin
"Information is not knowledge." Albert Einstein
"The only source of knowledge is experience. " Albert Einstein
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Einstein
There is no bigger prejudice than those that deem any group superior.
i agree that there may be people without a degree that are smarter than some people with a degree. i just don't think its discrimination because businesses can't determine ones intelligence based on one interview. they need to go by credentials.
The burden of fairness should not lay on those seeking employment, but on the employer. No, business can legally discriminate based on religion, sex, color of skin, etc, but can based upon who you know. Any one from Harvard, is automatically given a job; How is this not discrimination?
The rich, again buy their way into the work place. Daddy builds a building on campus and doors are open for you. Isn't this type of thinking, what made America fail. Isn't it time to try what works, instead of what should work?
“A poor man wise is like a sacred book that’s never read. To himself he lives, to all others seems died. This age thinks more of a gilded fool, than a thread bare saint in wisdom’s school.” Thomas Dekker
who you know: ok maybe discrimination. where you go: not at all discrimination.
if you go to harvard you are proven to know a thing or two. thats all it is, credentials are like insurance. also sex and skin colour shouldn't have anything to do with the job while education obviously does. lets just agree to disagree. fun debate.
Education certainly does matter, but every one doesn't learn the same way. Going to school may work for some, hands on experience may work for others. Should somebody judge you based only on their own capacity to learn?
look education matters I'm glad you agree. if you don't go to school how can you prove your educated. a degree shows that you have been to school and are educated. now you say school is not the best way for some people to learn but hands on work is. there is hands on work in school, so what do you mean? I don't mean to be offensive but it comes across to me like you've lost many a job to people with degrees and are still upset about it. i don't think your looking at a degree the way it must be looked at. just to simplify this debate: discrimination is choosing someone over another for unfair reasons. this includes any reason that has nothing to do with the job. if someone accepts you for a reason to do with the job it is not discrimination. so
your black so you don't get the job: discrimination
you say your a prominent lawyer but have nothin to show for it so sorry no job: not discrimination. see a degree backs up what you say about your knowledge. its not discrimination its like a tiebreaker to see who gets the job
My point is that it is discrimination because the employer is not smart enough to rely on anything else other than a degree. He/she simply takes the word of a boughten piece of paper and people wonder why American jobs have gone else where.
agree to disagree man. don't you think someone who has worked their ass off in college deserves a job more than someone who came out of high school and started job hunting? (rhetorical just think about it don't answer agree to disagree we both stand strong with our beliefs and nothing will change that).
What about comparing the guy that has become recently unemployed after 30 years to the a person that just graduated from college. Which one knows more?
The college grad cannot even attempt to claim they worked their ass off more than a person that has been working for 30 years. 4 years or even 8 will never beat 30.
maybe the person was fired for a reason? also show me enough instances of exactly this situation and circumstance to prove it is a trend. this is a what if, that probably doesn't happen a lot. if you can show me it is a trend okay. also take into consideration that the employer wants to hire someone young to work with for many years to come. or perhaps the unemployed man is bitter and cranky for being fired and so comes across as someone the employer does not want around his workplace.
Today, people rarely get fired after they have completed a 90 day trail period. What is the main cause of unemployment is companies shutting down and relocating to another country (China, Mexico, India, Malaysia, etc.).
As far as it being a the new trend, this is easy to show. Just go to any job search that falls in the Trade/Skill field. I have provided the typical requirements for such a job below. Remember this type of job is Heating/Air conditioning, Mechanics, Maintenance, etc.
Position Description
You will be responsible for the following duties, but not limited too:
Responsible for maximizing equipment uptime through a reliability based maintenance program
Perform preventative and predictive maintenance on equipment
Responsible for performing Root Cause Failure Analysis troubleshooting and corrective action on equipment and processes
Mentor/train operators through effective communication and teamwork
Make recommendations for improving plant operations and solving maintenance-related problems
Complete daily maintenance and repair logs
Communicate regularly with all maintenance technicians, production supervisors, operators, etc. regarding equipment status, both individually and as a group, to ensure good two-way communication concerning maintenance issues
Adheres to all policies listed in the Employee Handbook
Adheres to all policies listed in the Employee Safety Handbook and maintains a good personal record
Adheres to all policies and procedures relating to Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP's), food safety and the Company's Quality Policy Statement
Bachelor's degree in engineering or technical field or Associates degree from a two-year college in a related technical field; or certificate or diploma from a trade school in a related field and 3 years experience in the maintenance and/or operation of a manufacturing facility; or equivalent combination of education and experience.
Minimum of 2 years experience in a maintenance mechanic/electrician role.
* Experience with managing and utilizing lean techniques
Most require even more certification than the one listed above. Also note the number of years required to apply.
The alternative of course being...? What? Take their word for it? A person with a degree can prove they have years of experience, a person without a degree cannot regardless of whether or not they actually do. That is the difference between a person with a degree and a person without a degree.
If you cannot prove that you have the necessary credentials, then why do you think the employer should put their own reputation at risk to hire you?
What do you do in school? Take test. If they have half a brain they can test one on their knowledge regardless of whether a diploma hangs on the wall or not.
Why should any one have to do some one else's job? Their job is to find a good employee; Is it not? So why do they require some else to their work? Because they are too stupid to do what they were hired to do or then deem every one else as stupid as themselves.
Let me put this in terms even a simpleton like you can understand. Why do you copy and paste every response? Because you are unable to think on your own. The same problem exists with all educated idiots and these idiots are hired as Human Resource staff.
My list of credentials is a mile long. I have worked for General Motors, John Deere, Catapillar, Westinghouse, etc, etc. as an outside contractor. I even do work for several universities, but knowing one's field isn't good enough any more. Companies today would rather have a dumb ass like you, that knows nothing than some one with experience.
You wonder how I know this. I have a degree, it is not in the field of work I enjoy doing. For 25 years I've been working in a field that didn't require a degree, now it does. The work hasn't changed, just the requirements.
What do you do in school? Take test. If they have half a brain they can test one on their knowledge regardless of whether a diploma hangs on the wall or not.
Over the course of one's professional education, we're talking about thousands of tests a person has taken, hundreds of hours of coursework, and thousands of written essays and theses over the course of several years (sometimes a decade or more). That's not something you can replicate in the time it takes to do an interview. What you're saying is wholly unrealistic and wildly unpractical.
Like I said before, it's a matter of what a person can prove. You could be the best ______ in the world, but if you can't prove you have the credentials to do a certain line of work, the potential employer isn't going to take a risk by hiring said' person. You can be upset about it all you want, you can rant and rave, but that's just how the world operates. Put yourself in the shoes of the potential employer, you wouldn't want to hire someone either if they can't prove that they have experience and skill to do the job. You certainly aren't going to make your point by attempting to insult me.
What professional education? The educational system in the USA is anything but professional. If it was truly a professional educational system, they would employ better teachers. Secondly, they would not have any sports program. Why have a sports program, if education is the point of school?
Bohemian, your name is really ironic, since you are as ordinary as they come. Synonyms for bohemian are; boho, counterculturist, deviant, enfant terrible, free spirit, heretic, iconoclast, individualist, loner, lone ranger, lone wolf, maverick, nonconformer Everything that you say is 100% some one else's words. Blankslate, would have been a better name.
Credentials should be all those things that prove you are what you claim to be and not just a glance at where your mommy and daddy sent you to school. Last places of employment, type of of employment, number of years of employment, etc. Or do you just believe one stops learning the minute they get out of school? Learning is a life long experience. Since this is true, what is a couple of years in college compared to a lifetime.
What professional education? The educational system in the USA is anything but professional.
The United States actually has some of the best colleges and Universities in the World, and people from around the world will come to the U.S. specifically to go to a college or university. Many scientific discoveries are made in colleges and universities in the United States. The same cannot be said for our primary and secondary education, which are among the worst in the developed world.
Secondly, they would not have any sports program. Why have a sports program, if education is the point of school?
Well, there is evidence to suggest that physical activity improves mental acuity, not to mention the social and emotional benefits of sports. Additionally sports are a good way to attract potential students to a given school and to raise money. Whether sports programs translate into better learning is disputable.
Credentials should be all those things that prove you are what you claim to be and not just a glance at where your mommy and daddy sent you to school.
I admit that our education system underlines much of our class divisions, but the solution to that is not to say "scrap the whole thing" the solution is to make tertiary education more available to everyone. Sure previous work history is a good way to judge one's competencies, and it works in most professions, but for some professions and for those who are just entering a new field (particularly those with high risk), a degree is a good way to judge their skill and competency.
It may have some of the best colleges and universities in the world, but to be "King of the Outhouse" is far from being grand.
The only reason colleges and universities have sports programs is because it creates revenue. If it was to promote mental activity, all students would be involved. Just a handful cannot be used as a valid reason.
Scrapping the whole thing is probably a more realistic ideal then to think that colleges/universities are going to change themselves.
The problem that exists is that, "previous work history is a good way to judge one's competencies" is that this is not being done at all. One educated idiot seems to be drawn to another. This country has failed to hire the best managers, CEO's, vice presidents, etc. and so the end result is that they look for people as incompetent as they are. These people fear being replaced and have searched high and low for those that don't have a chance in hell of replacing them. Why do think companies keep closing their doors and relocating? One thing this does is it gets rid of management. What they fail to do, is go far enough up the chain and get rid of those that instrument this line of thinking in the first place. Its like being victorious in a revolution and keeping the government.
No, you're absolutely right. Businesses going bankrupt is because there are too many people with degrees and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we are going through a recession caused by the housing market crash. If only less business leaders had degrees this wouldn't be happening.
Your understanding of economics is clearly superior to mine. I will now hang my head in shame and dismay.
How many businesses do you own? That's what I thought. I own two. I speak from experience. Where do you speak from? My guess is Goggle, this is where you get everything else.
You have shown several times that you have no clue how the world works. There is a vast difference in knowing how the world works and being part of military intelligence (an oxymoron of course).
How big business works is actually quite similar to how the military works (or doesn't). One gets orders from someplace like Washington D.C. and every one else follows. They are not on present location and deem what is policy from a distant land. When all hell breaks loose, they wonder why. No big secret as why failure; Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan occurs. Only a mystery when victory is obtained.
One does not need to own a business to understand economics and many people who own businesses still don't. You being one of them.
To even imply that our current recession is caused by too many business leaders possessing degrees, suggests that you haven't the slightest clue how economics work. You're just bitter because you feel inferior for not having a degree, and you focus that bitterness on those that do. That much is obvious.
When large corporations fail, perhaps the biggest cause is unsavory (i.e. unethical) business practices. Sub-Prime mortgages being a recent example of that.
oh ya for sure. look up discrimination on the googol news section and you'll see. plus how many people do you know that are discriminated. probably a lot
and really....if discrimination wasn't still an issue isaiah mustafa would still be the man your man could smell like.
