So if you do it with a dog, it's just a natural act? If you do it with a child, it's just a natural act? If you do it with your brother and/or sister or parents or grandma and grampa in a big orgy, it's just a natural act and there is never nothing wrong with it as long as everybody involved consents?

Have you ever heard of the word, "pervert"? Guess what it means.

so if your ten year old son says it's ok for a sodomite to teach the ways of sodomy to the boy, it's ok? where do you draw the line and how do you justify that line?

but this seems to assume that having a child before a public declaration of partnership is morally wrong

do you think that having the consequences of a unplanned/unconventional child is what makes pre-marital sex immoral?

sex without sex? are you sure you really exist? How do you know that you really are there?

This is some of the dumbest stuff in the world today. Dirty sex is still dirty sex with or without contraceptives. If you want to be perverted with your sexuality, that's your choice. I hope your contraceptives keep you from getting AIDS, but no matter how much contraceptive you use there is always a risk of AIDS and other STD's. All sex outside of marriage is wrong. Mutual consent and condoms don't make it right. It's just plain common sense...save it for marriage, keep it clean, protect your body and encourage others to do the same. Perverts spread STD's in the human race. If there were no sex-perverts, no STD's would spread.

No perverts allowed around my family.

Bruh ok well us Catholics/Christians (not church people you idiot) have our morals in check. That's the amazing thing about religion because of our Lord, we already have good morals and we always you have them. Morals were created by God and his word is true. Society can't creat morals. Like back then having sex before marriage was such a bad thing to society and religion and now society thinks it's perfectly fine but religion, Christian religion anyway, is right because we follow the morals created by God. God made sex for the INTENTION for the women to get pregnant. If you don't want a baby then WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU HAVE SEX IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Seriously WHAT THE LOGIC?!? There's no logic in that. You say that the invention of condoms makes fornication unethical because now the girl can't get pregnant. Well did you know there's still a chance of the girl getting pregnant? OH MY GOSH! That's a true statement. Plus, like I said, sex was made for the couple to have a baby. A married couple. Using a condom is unnatural.

You sum up why our nation is falling into the gutter. You are actually stupid enough to think most teens are responsible enough to use birth control. All your sex ed. band aide did was excuse teens having sex and they could care less about using condoms because condoms effect the sex. We had far fewer teen pregnancies before sex ed. ever started!

Eventually after our welfare roles are so swollen supporting unwed mothers, that the middle class can no longer pay to support them. IT WILL ALL COLLAPSE.

Is that how you would raise your chidren? Tell them that it is ok to have sex as long as you use birth control? Even if they did use birth control every time, it does not guarantee they do not get pregnant. Are teens repsonible and mature enough to be havng children? How can they pay for their children? After so many years of sex ed., why are our social programs exploding with unwed mothers? How are they getting pregnant?

This amoral progressive movement is abslutely destroying this nation. We are 18 trillion in debt and soon the interest payments on that debt will equal all of our military spending each year. PROGRESSIVISM is a complete failure.

It's based on preservation of what is good. Your attitude is encouraging the spread of disease, and you are guilty by association for every case of AIDS and other STD's because you are supporting sexual perversion to corrupt what is good. If your son or daughter catches AIDS when a condom bursts, blame yourself and your own teachings.

I think that pregnancy was one factor, but certainly not the sole or even primary factor. The restriction has always been more strictly imposed upon women than men, if for no other reason than that women could become pregnant and their virginity checked. Discouraging sex before marriage became a way to regulate the sexuality of the "second sex" which was commonly viewed as inferior and less capable of making good choices for themselves (i.e. the male as the protector of female sexuality and other decision making). Legitimacy also used to be far more important in society than it is cultures like ours today, with sex before marriage associated with promiscuity that could create challenges of legitimacy for offspring (particularly if the sex occurred shortly before marriage). It is also likely that religious institutions had a vested interested in regulating the family unit to make it a more manageable means of dispersing the faith.

Let me try to explain this to you, since you are doing a pretty good job of denying reality. Getting pregnant or not getting pregnant is not the issue, raising children is not the issue.

You have a body. You are stuck with it forever, if it is cured of disease in heaven or it remains diseased in Hell. It's yours.

A woman has a body, hers the same as yours is yours. When a man gives his body to a woman, they are united as one flesh. If you break that bond, it's an insult to your own body as well as to hers. Marriage is the merging of two into one. It is the only right usage of your body sexually. It's simple to understand. People just love the pleasures of sin so they get it every which way they can...some with animals, some with children, and some will get it with your daughter or wife or son or brother if they can.

Because you are twisted in promoting sin, you deserve any STD's on you or in your family for you to be grieved by it. I deserve it too, because I was like you before I got saved. Fornication is considered wrong because it is wrong. It is not wrong relative to opinions, it is wrong because it is wrong.

So if you feel like having sex with a dog, your sister, or your mother or brother, or a child in the neighborhood, and they feel the same way, and you make sure pregnancy will not occur, it's good as long as you feel no ingrained prohibition?

Don't you see how your argument supports perverts in all walks and degrees, even if you are not one of the perverts you are supporting by your words? By your words, you must be a pervert who endorses sex outside of marriage for yourself or for others, and by your words there is nowhere to draw the line, and any laws in the area are naturally invalid by your logic.

I wonder if you actually know what morality actually means. Morality is the subject that separates right from wrong. Yes, you can't measure morality but you can put a label on what's right and wrong. Do me a favor and read your whole comment. It's so dumb! If you say morality doesn't objectively exist therefore fornication isn't moraly wrong then how is anything wrong or right?! Answer that for me. You are right on the part where it doesn't objectively exist like I said but everything is either moraly right or wrong. If you go by what you said saying morality doesn't objectively exist therefore for inaction before marriage is not moraly wrong then how can you say it's morally ok?! You can't! Sex was made for the spouses, not for to people not married. It's called traditional marriage.

How can you be sure morality does not exist when you are not even sure you exist?

By your logic, nothing is wrong, murder, theft, rape, nothing. I think you are dangerous, another anarchist who is a good candidate to attempt or commit mass murder. I also think you have already committed most or all of these things to some degree, with only you and God knowing the full extent of what you have done.

Why do I think you were sexually abused as a child and did it to others the same as it was done to you? Are you the guy who said he was raped when he was a child?

Fornication has nothing to do with promiscuity unless you define it that way independent of its actual meaning, which is begging the question.

You are also assuming that promiscuity and having sex for reasons other than a serious relationship are morally wrong, without ever explaining why.