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50
49
For Against
Debate Score:99
Arguments:115
Total Votes:110
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 For (39)
 
 Against (35)

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DrChamberlin(145) pic



Is it possible that Derek Chauvin might be acquitted. Are you for, or against it, and why.

As the days continue to drag on, it's growing ever more possible that Derek Chauvin may be acquitted, or at the very worst there may even be a mistrial, especially with what is going on during the current trial.
We've seen the city release a massive settlement to Floyd's family, a move that the Judge worried would taint the Jury, and even lead to several of the jurors being removed.
Now we have either individual citizens doing their best to get as much of the juror's personal information. As well as some news organizations that are doing their best to reveal as much of that same personal information as they can. 

This is compounded with the fact that we have people coming out, and espousing that Chauvin should not even have been allowed a trial. While most of the city itself is just worried about what would happen, if the trial doesn't go the way that the a activist want it to. Causing them to become violent, and threaten the city even more than they already have.

For

Side Score: 50
VS.

Against

Side Score: 49
2 points

I waited until the full footage came out before taking a side on this. I'm pretty damn sure this was Floyd overdosing while in custody, and not a policeman murdering him.

The pronounced cause of death is ridiculous. Something like 'heart failure caused by cops'. So, the heart failure part is an objetive claim. No neck bruising so bloodflow not significantly restricted, and you can see the guy breathing before and after he passed out, so he wasn't choked to death as we were told by the media. This "I can't breathe" as he's frantically panting is clearly him panicking as his heart fails on him.

So did the cops scare him into heart failure? Or was it the 4x lethal fentanyl dose + meth? Is America a nation of morons? But I guess the title 'man kills himself as he eats his stash in a panic to hide it from cops' isn't a story whereas 'black man murdered by white cop' is. God America is disgusting these days. These leftist racists need to go, and take their 'racial awakening' with them.

More details are coming out in the case that seem to support this too. Derek and the other cops didn't seem to be doing anything wrong, I don't even think they should have been fired, I don't know what more I would do in that situation. So yeah, I think what's happened already is a complete miscarriage of justice. Acquittal would be great, if not for the leftist BLM mob that would riot and burn down the city if he got off free, and some of the jury information is public. So I think even if the Jury were somehow initially unbiased, they'd probably just vote guilty for their own safety if nothing else.

Side: For
Rusticus(809) Disputed
2 points

Sure genius, a cop with a knee on his neck for 9 minutes and 30 seconds couldn't possibly have had anything to do with his death.

You make about as much sense as the lunatics who claim JFK shot himself.

Side: Against
Amarel(5562) Disputed
1 point

Beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the legal standard for conviction. If Floyd had exceedingly lethal levels of a highly dangerous opioid in his blood at the time of death, it's reasonable to think that may be what killed him.

Side: For
excon(15380) Disputed
2 points

So did the cops scare him into heart failure? Or was it the 4x lethal fentanyl dose + meth? Is America a nation of morons?

Hello N:

If he had 4x lethal dose of fentanyl, he woulda dropped dead. He didn't.. In fact, just moments before the cops killed him, he can be seen dancing a jig in Cup Foods.. That's NOT what a guy does right before he drops dead of an overdose.

But, even if you conclude that he was stoned, you'd have to conclude that the drugs were the SUBSTANTIAL CAUSE of his death.. Looks to me, like the substantial cause of Floyd's death, was a knee on his neck for 9.5 minutes.

I capitalized the words SUBSTANTIAL CAUSE, because that's the LEGAL standard used when considering guilt or innocence of 2nd degree murder.

excon

Side: Against
Nomoturtle(848) Clarified
1 point

If he had 4x lethal dose of fentanyl, he woulda dropped dead. He didn't.. So the autopsy report is lying?

In fact, just moments before the cops killed him, he can be seen dancing a jig in Cup Foods.. That's NOT what a guy does right before he drops dead of an overdose.

That was before the cops arrived or even the counterfit bill. And yeah, he was high as hell, but not overdosing. However when the cops went up to the car it looks like Floyd may have swallowed more drugs to hide them.

Going over the lethal fentanyl dose is undoubtedly substantial cause.

Side: For
Mongele(643) Clarified
1 point

@Nomturtle;- Whist I agree with you whole heartedly on your overall sentiments about the dominant position the lefties and woke loonies have established I would comment that as there is still evidence to be presented from both the defense and the prosecution no definitive judgement can be reached at this stage.

Until the due process of law is deemed by the judge to be completed your expressed opinion should be qualified with the acknowledgement that your statement is an interim appraisal of the case based on the incomplete presentation of the evidence.

Being mindful of the aforementioned reservations I am of the opinion that there is little doubt that Floyd was high on drugs and, as the security video clearly showed, this led to him unashamedly and overtly stealing from the store whose manager called the police.

His erratic and uncooperative conduct with the police would validate this evaluation of his crazed state of mind.

However, all the attending police officers, but Chauvin in particular, should have allowed for the suspect's drug induced psychological condition and acted with additional attention to his physical well-being.

Chauvin sat with his knee on Floyd's neck while he,(Floyd) begged for release from the restraining hold which was killing him.

These pleas fell on deaf ears and the suspect died from asphyxiation.

At this stage of only partial evidence to go on I would conclude that at best Chauvin is guilty of criminal negligence/incompetence and at worst willful murder.

Side: For
Nomoturtle(848) Clarified
2 points

Until the due process of law is deemed by the judge

That's a fair standard for an 'objective' determination. What I wrote is obviously opinion.

the restraining hold which was killing him.

This has yet to be determined.

the suspect died from asphyxiation.

No he didn't, I mentioned this earlier. The Hennepin autopsy report said it was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression". This is a form of heart failure.

"Layer by layer dissection of the anterior strap muscles of the neck discloses no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature." - There was no bruising, blood flow to his brain wasn't blocked.

"The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact. The larynx is lined by intact mucosa. The thyroid is

symmetric and red-brown, without cystic or nodular change. The tongue is free of bite marks, hemorrhage, or other injuries. The cervical spinal column is palpably stable and free of hemorrhage." - His neck and throat were comepletely undamaged.

Furthermore you can see Floyd breathing before and after he passes out, roughly up until the police can't find his pulse; his airway was not blocked.

So if the blood flow to his head wasn't cut off, there was no damage to his throat, and he was visibly breathing, how can it be claimed that he was strangled to death?

Saying things like "I can't breathe" while literally hyperventilating are signs your heart is failing.

Side: For
Amarel(5562) Clarified
1 point

I don't know what more I would do in that situation

The rookie on scene recommended turning Floyd on his side because of excited delirium. He was fresh from academy and recalled that training. His senior officer said that for the same concerns, Floyd needs to stay put. The rookie, being unsure of himself, agreed.

What should have been done differently is Floyd's position on the ground. If he were sitting on his side or upright when he died, we wouldn't be in this situation.

Side: For
Nomoturtle(848) Clarified
1 point

That's where my knowledge on this ends. I don't know what the police are trained to do (or what anyone should do) in terms of medical training or of the use of force. I imagine that comes up in the trial though.

Side: For

Unfortunately, that's what this is going to possibly boil down to. There are people who're still trying to uncover exactly who the jurors are, so we know that someone out there is going to discover their identities. And then we'll be back at square one when they have to be released from the trial proceedings as well. The prosecutors PR person was caught during the trial taking photos, so their faces have mostly been uploaded to a cloud at this point.

As for the case, we can see that most of what we know by the media is not what is going to be widely spread. We know that the use of putting their knee on the back of the person's neck, is actually a legitimate practice by the police force. We know that Floyd was already suffering from a shortness of breath before the police showed up, because the cashier pointed that out.

I just fear that heads are going to roll once again, if the mob doesn't get their way on this one.

Side: For
1 point

I feel we must wait until all the evidence has been impartially and objectively presented before we can make an informed decision.

Blacks will go doolally if he's acquitted and Mister American Policeman will feel disenfranchised and incensed if Chauvin is convicted of murder.

Side: For
DrChamberlin(145) Clarified
1 point

The whole defund police movement, has done more than enough damage in it's own right on that part.

Side: For
1 point

Why won't the prosecutor grant immunity to Morries Hall to testify?

What could Morries Hall testify to that might incriminate him?

Side: For
1 point

Has anyone raised a stink about the lack of a hate crime element to this case? Does anyone care to mention why there's no hate crime charge?

Side: For
DrChamberlin(145) Clarified
2 points

I can try to answer both accounts here.

-One, on the notion of Hall incriminating himself. It's most likely that he had supplied Floyd with the narcotics that contributed to his death, which means he could snag himself in the same charges that are being leveled at Chauvin. Though on the count of it being either murder, or manslaughter in anyone's guess at this point.

-Two, on the topic of there being no hate crime element to the case. It's most likely because there was no evidence the necessary bias, required for this act to be considered a hate crime. I've seen people attempt to claim that Chauvin treating Floyd like he did, was due racims against Floyd. But the evidence for such a justification just isn't there. Had Chauvin said something overt against Floyd, and it was caught on footage, maybe. But right now, all we know is that he was doing his job.

Side: For
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
1 point

he had supplied Floyd with the narcotics that contributed to his death

Except narcotics didn't contribute to his death.

Expert: Lack of oxygen killed George Floyd, not drugs

https://apnews.com/article/derek-chauvin-trial-expert-lack-of-oxygen-killed-floyd-b1092d8b70ea934776161355fdf171a4

Side: For

I think yesterday, marked the first time in the trial. That the prosecution's testimony did not turn into a positive for the defense.

Side: For

Well, we're entering the final stretch of the trial and this should mark some intrinsic turning point for the prosecution.

They needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed Floyd, and unfortunately for them. They've only managed to throw more doubt upon that exact same level.

With their own witnesses turning more response for the defense than for the prosecution itself.

Side: For
3 points

I don't think anyone that watched it could honestly call it anything but, well, .... Chauvin-istic murder!

I think he had his hands in his pockets because he was getting turned on! But, of course, that's just my opinion ... it's what I was thinking at the time! He's a Sadist! (Another real-time feeling)! If he was to walk our "justice system" would be a joke, and our "All men are created equal" message would be meaningless! I don't condone violence. Neither do I condone murder!

It happens ALL OVER THE WORLD! When people don't get justice, things happen. :-(

Side: Against
1 point

No, our justice system would be a joke, if it was allowed he be pulled out by the crowed and punished by their own hands.

Our system is weighing the evidence that it has in this case. It's not going to be an easy ride, but none of this ever really is, and it's not like he hasn't already paid for this in some measure. I'm just not willing to see a man's life ruined, because he was unfortunate enough to have someone die while he was on the job.

Given the evidence being leveled against him. It's quite possible that the harder charges will fail to stick, and to that effect. The officers along with Chauvin will be released as well. As the verdict of their case, relies on him being found guilty.

Side: For
AlofRI(3263) Clarified
1 point

You're SO smart ... in a dumb sort of way. You are living proof that conservatives ARE right when they say we have a LOT of mental illness in this country! (They just won't admit most of it is on THEIR SIDE! :-)

A man's life WAS TOTALLY ruined, he was choked to death while a chovin-istic beast played with himself! The man was unfortunate enough to be around while the beast "was on the job".

Even his blue brothers are trying to cage the beast! A piece of Biblical advice ... Open thine eyes!

Side: For
3 points

Derek Chauvin is doomed regardless of the outcome of this trial. Even if he's acquitted he's still going to have to spend the rest of his days in hiding.

I don't see anything but misery in his future. He's gonna end up wishing he'd killed himself the day he murdered George Floyd

Side: Against
Amarel(5562) Clarified
1 point

Like Darren Wilson ?

Side: For
Rusticus(809) Disputed
1 point

Darren Wilson's story isn't over. The money will run out and then what?

Side: For
1 point

It saddens me that this could be the outcome for an innocent man, that was just doing his job.

Side: For
2 points

Is it possible that Derek Chauvin might be acquitted. Are you for, or against it, and why

Hello Dr:

It's not a matter of what I'm for or not.. It's a matter of whether I believe my lying eyes or not. Secondly, we were told the trial would last 2 weeks.. That it's lasting 2 weeks does not mean it's dragging on.

But, to your question.. In this country, it's HARD to convict a cop - very, very hard. Therefore, there's a good chance he'll walk.

Contrary to your observation, however, I don't see any misconduct in the trial that would cause the judge to call it a mistrial.. That people are talking about it, and that they are demonstrating about it, and that the news networks are reporting on it, isn't a reason to end the trial..

Finally, I don't see the people THREATENING anyone or any city.. But, having seen guilty cops get off before, I KNOW - absolutely KNOW - that if he's acquitted, riots will rain down upon this great country of ours..

excon

Side: Against
Amarel(5562) Clarified
1 point

A hung jury could result in a mistrial. .

Side: For
BurritoLunch(6607) Clarified
1 point

A hung jury could result in a mistrial.

Do you get sexually excited when you polish your guns?

Side: For
1 point

George Floyd square has already been turned into an autonomous zone, and its' already claimed a life. We also have people coming out demanding that Chauvin not even be given a trial.

So no matter what happens here. We're going to have a group that is not going to be happy about whatever outcome we have.

Side: For
2 points

After watching the trial so far, it is clear that he used too much force for too long. I don't think they will be able to Convict on third or second degree murder, but they are setting up and will likely be able to prove the second degree manslaughter charge. From what I read that will give him up to 10 years in prison. I am concerned that he has three charges against him and they all will be considered separately. Therefore, he could be convicted on all three charges!!! I think that is bizarre and is only being done because they want a conviction. All I can say is that this is a tragedy for everyone involved and needs to be quickly dispatched.

Side: Against

I am concerned that he has three charges against him and they all will be considered separately. Therefore, he could be convicted on all three charges!!! I think that is bizarre and is only being done because they want a conviction.

I've seen this happen a lot in cases covered by the media. I agree it's absolutely bizarre, and it frequently leads to bizarre sentence lengths of 150-200 years. I think they should aim for one main charge and consider anything else an aggravating factor to the main charge.

Side: Against
Amarel(5562) Clarified
0 points

It's does seem the most likely.

"609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.

A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another"

Side: For

That would be the best outcome that the prosecution could ask for. Given how things are going right now, with Floyd's friend pulling himself from questioning, and pleading the 5th. It's more likely that Chauvin may get a vastly reduced sentence compared to what other people really want.

Side: For