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Debate Info

17
4
Yes No
Debate Score:21
Arguments:13
Total Votes:21
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 Yes (10)
 
 No (3)

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Bradf0rd(1431) pic



Would it be accurate to equate "God" with Truth, completely?

Basically, because we don't know God, would the closest thing to god be what we understand as truth?

Yes

Side Score: 17
VS.

No

Side Score: 4
5 points

Well, technically yes.

It's possible to define anything you want as anything you want. That doesn't alter whether or not it remains irrelevant though, and masquerading a poorly defined concept as another poorly defined concept remains just as irrelevant I'm afraid.

Side: irrelevant definition

As Xeaon says, technically yes. It is possible to define anything as THE truth if you believe in THE concept or system. It cannot be dis-proved that He isn't Truth.

Side: yes
2 points

I agree. I personally would define God with truth, because that's the way i was raised and what my parents and grandparents taught me. Sure, other people may think otherwise, but they can't dis-prove what i have grown to believe.

Side: yes
2 points

This is actually very poetic. I think that the closest thing an atheist might see to god would be truth, or perhaps intrinsic good of people, or beauty in surroundings? i think that there are many spiritual things that are not necessarily religious or god-related.

Side: yes

Let's assume for a second that there is actually a God. Now let's assume that he created the universe and he is omniscient and omnipotent. Now we can begin to explore the concept.

It is impossible for anyone to know everything and as humans our knowledge of the Universe is extremely limited. In this sense it is impossible for us to ever know the whole "Truth". Only a being that is omnipotent could know everything (by definition) and therefore I guess you could define God as truth.

If on the other hand you don't make these assumptions then God is most likely "Lie" in that he does not exist and billions of people have been deceived in his name. Therefore God could be the ultimate Lie because no other Lie has gained such acceptance and killed so many.

Side: Only if you assume he exists
1 point

Truth is not necessarily something that can be proven, rather something that is believed among a mass of people, or even a single person for that matter. As long as someone can support this truth with evidence to persuade us to believe this "truth" then it is truth itself. So if someone can say that the Torah is evidence to G-d being truth, and has a good argument, then it is truth. And hasn't G-d lead to more great truths than anyone else anyways? Therefore making himself truth.

Side: yes
1 point

If The Truth isn't God, you are talking about a god not The God.

Side: Yes
2 points

Yes kind of, in that you can define anything as anything as long as that's the stated premise, i.e. "we will define this thing as an apple because xyz, and this as an orange because abc."

It's apples and oranges. (a cliche term that I hate because it rarely is used unless someone is trying to trick someone into thinking something isn't so, I digress.)

Truth is already defined.

It can refer to those definitions, and the idea of absolute truth, which is signified by the capital 'T' where it doesn't gramatically belong.

That's what you meant right?

That would relegate "God" to something that has no actual state of being.

Er, what?

I mean, "Truth" isn't a living thing that you can pray to and it will answer your prayers, and who goes around creating stuff and punishing bad guys etc.

By that definition you might as well define "God" as "Rock" or paper or scissors, because they're all equally helpful. (More so actually because they're real, but I'm ignoring that arguement.)

I mean, you hear all the time, "God is truth," or "God is Truth," but if you're going to accept that God actually is, then you cannot define him as Truth or truth, you could only describe him as truthful.

Side: No
Bradf0rd(1431) Disputed
1 point

Fist off, who's the "bad guy". If there is a good, and there is a bad, how do you define them? One is honest and doesn't take, but gives?

This is part of my idea, I mean, this question, so what do you think so that I can better understand.

Side: yes
1 point

Well that's the crux.

Who's good and who's bad? What's good and what's bad? Is there any such thing?

Let me give you a link to this article This is what is meant by absolute Truth. (capitalized, or just 'T' if you're a philosopher.)

The notion of the existance of a Judea/Christian type god demands that there be an absolute truth. So does logic. So does math. Here's an example if you didn't follow the link.

"There's no such thing as absolute Truth."

Which means the statement "There's no such thing as absolute Truth," is not absolutely true. The link is actually wrong to say it means it then must be false, it only must not be necessarily true, which could still leave room for "T" or not. A circle basically, which is why people still argue about it. Religious types (where the 'god is truth' thing came from) took it to mean that if there must be T (again refering to the logical fallacy I pointed out in the article) then there must be a god.

Well it gets to be a little annoying, kind of fun though, if you like torture and riddles.

... not really the point of the question I think though.

My arguement never was whether or not 'T' exists, or about good or evil. Simply that you cannot define any type of god as "Truth," only mention that as a characteristic of said god.

Now if you're asking me "who's the bad guy?" I would say there is no such thing.

But that's an even longer arguement that has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness, religion, sin, crime, child abuse, rape, murder, or anything else people will begin spewing off as soon as they hear, "there's no such thing as the bad guy."

Quickly though because I have to leave and don't want to give you a drunk answer at 3am:

It seems that all great things first have to bestride the earth in monstrous and frightening masks in order to inscribe themselves in the hearts of humanity with eternal demands: dogmatic philosophy was such a mask... the worst, most durable, and most dangerous of all errors so far was a dogmatist's error - namely Plato's invention of the pure spirit (mind) and the good as such" - Nietzsche

Our society deems, and it is a beneficial and healthy thing that we do such, that some things are "bad" and some things are "good" and it is "good" to be "one (who) is honest and doesn't take, but gives.." as you say.

This is because we have made it such.

Things are not bad or good. They simply are. Same with people. And same with a god if he exists somewhere.

This isn't an excuse to behave in destructive and anti-social ways, just a statement of fact. The idea that we are somehow knowledgable enough of the state of being, or that we're bright enough to figure out without such knowledge, the nature of good and evil, what's right an wrong, is silly.

"It's evil to murder a person."

Okay, what if that person was about to kill a turkey for dinner, the turkey wouldn't think the murderer was evil, the turkey would (if it was bright enough) think that person was a hero.

Relative. Now we're the only creature on this planet with enough brains to ever even come close to such a distinction, but hopefully you get the point.

We simply try and do what is most beneficial to the most people, and call those things good. Sometimes it gets turned around, but for the most part that's all.

Side: yes
1 point

Is it even possible to define "Truth"?

Side: No
1 point

Truth

1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.

2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.

3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.

4. the state or character of being true.

5. actuality or actual existence.

6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.

7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.

8. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.

9. agreement with a standard or original.

10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.

11. Archaic. fidelity or constancy.

—Idiom

12. in truth, in reality; in fact; actually: In truth, moral decay hastened the decline of the Roman Empire.

Haha, I know the point you were trying to make, but I felt like being a smart ass.

Side: yes

I'm going to say no, but that's just me. Ultimately this is a whatever you personally believe question. This idea of God=truth is a very occidental way of thinking which has become increasingly popular (again) lately, I think in part because "truth" doesn't judge us. Anyway, it's a funny debate. There is a definite truth (reality is not changed by popular belief) and God either is or isn't, but we are all free to make that decision for ourselves. Yay freedom :)

Side: No