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Debate Info

20
19
Yes No
Debate Score:39
Arguments:29
Total Votes:41
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (12)
 
 No (17)

Debate Creator

Srom(12207) pic



Is religion an outdated concept?

Yes

Side Score: 20
VS.

No

Side Score: 19
3 points

I was a little undecided about this one. I felt as if since religion does sometimes help out and advances society, and since it has been apart of mankind since the beginning, it shouldn't be outdated. But then I thought, why should people have to rely on an outside force that no one even knows exist to help them make decisions? Why can't we take responsibility for our own actions, and why can't we have rules not bound to religious affiliation? Man has always relied on praying for something to happen, instead of making it happen through his own effort. Religion is just another thing that causes people to bicker, alienate, and harm other people, so why not take it away? Religious followers are always saying the same thing, "My god(s) exist, and is(are) the true god(s)." Why keep it around? Saying that you'll go to heaven or paradise after you as long as you follow a certain set of rules is just a delusion people tell themselves to hold on to hope. The truth is, no one knows what's beyond life, and trying to tell yourself and others otherwise is kinda cruel, because while following those rules to get to wherever, you lose your freedom to do what you want. You are told constantly to fight your "flesh", your instincts and basic nature. Why not embrace it instead, and use it towards advancing yourself in life?

Side: Yes
3 points

O for sure it is, religion is nothing more then primitive man trying to understand things, most no longer need religion, the reason it's still here is because most people cling to it due to tradition and culture, any reasonable person can clearly see that it's all bull crap.

As for a God that's another thing, no matter what we humans can't know for sure other then pure speculation, we know nothing when it comes to what created the elements for existence or if it was even created at all, our brains can only understand what falls within the realm of physics, if there is more to that we can't know for sure because we have no way to find out as of now.

Side: Yes
2 points

Religion was first created in an attempt to escape the fear of death, and keep people from killing others. But now we have laws, and we have therapists who can help with fears. There is no need for religion, due to the fact that it's starting wars, people who aren't religious are harassed a lot of times, and people keep their mind closed. Religion also keeps people from helping situations like Global Warming or starvation, they say either "Oh... Global Warming is fake, god wouldn't allow it!" or "People are starving...? I shall pray for them, and give my money to the church."

Side: Yes
2 points

Religion's first purpose was to explain things humans could not or to glorify things that amazed us. For example, animal worship or attributing supernatural causation to lightening and thunder. Later it took on the purpose of giving people an escape from the fear of their own mortality because they couldnt cope with it. And lastly it evolved to serve the purpose of controlling the masses. Keeping them in line by weaving in cultural rules and laws into the bullshit they already accepted.

Now we dont see animals and plants the same way. We understand them on a molecular level and have simplified them. The same goes for thunder and lightning and other natural events. We know that there is no supernatural causation for them. And nowadays we have an actual penal system, laws and rules laid out for everybody that are aside from religion. A secular judicial system governs the populace. Religion is entirely outdated and serves only one of its original purposes. Giving people an escape from the fear of their own mortality. But that isnt a good enough reason to keep it around. We have psychologists and therapists now to help with coping with death. Get over it so we can move FULLY into the 21st century instead of dragging the bronze age with us kicking and screaming.

Side: Yes
timber113(796) Disputed
1 point

Later it took on the purpose of giving people an escape from the fear of their own mortality because they couldnt cope with it.

This always gets to me, why would they make religion where they would have suffered for eternity if they messed up? Or such messed up gods?

Religion's first purpose was to explain things humans could not or to glorify things that amazed us. For example, animal worship or attributing supernatural causation to lightening and thunder.

Okay, we can't expect them to have the technology necessary to know what made lightning. But what about men who accepted the round earth theory but believed in God anywho? They were probably as intelligent as any modern scientist, so despite the area around them being heavily religious, they could have come out to be atheist.

We know that there is no supernatural causation for them.

How does understanding how lightning is formed means no supernatural causation.

Religion is entirely outdated and serves only one of its original purposes. Giving people an escape from the fear of their own mortality.

Why would Christianity survive so long if it spoke of eternal punishment (and that no man knows if he will go to heaven or hell to an extent)? Wouldn't the people of antiquity just stomp it out on a whole? I do not believe this religion, replaces man's mortality with something even worse would have gotten anywhere.

Side: No
AveSatanas(4433) Disputed
1 point

This always gets to me, why would they make religion where they would have suffered for eternity if they messed up? Or such messed up gods?

It serves two purposes. The nice happy afterlife gives a security blanket from fear of death. The bad afterlife serves the purpose of enforcing the rules, keeping people in line, and keeping people in the religion. The rules dont work if people dont believe and follow the religion, the rules dont apply to them anymore. So the bad afterlife is that nagging fear that keeps the faithfull, faithfull.

Okay, we can't expect them to have the technology necessary to know what made lightning. But what about men who accepted the round earth theory but believed in God anywho? They were probably as intelligent as any modern scientist, so despite the area around them being heavily religious, they could have come out to be atheist.

What about them? Im just talking about how religion started and the purposes it served/serves. There will always be exceptions and adaptations. Thats how religion survived, it adapted to new beliefs. But lets also not forget that those people who propogated a round earth and a heliocentric solar system were heavily persecuted and some killed. It took alot to tip the scales and change the masses mentality.

How does understanding how lightning is formed means no supernatural causation.

We know every single thing about lightning including what causes it. Theres no indication or evidence of any supernatural factor in it whatsoever. Especially not a dude on a mountain throwing bolts at the ground. Those kinds of ancient myths have been disproven entirely. People can still say theres a god behind it somehow because technically you cant disprove a god but the old myths of earth bound gods from the early religions are gone.

Why would Christianity survive so long if it spoke of eternal punishment (and that no man knows if he will go to heaven or hell to an extent)?

Because people believe it is true. Because they teach their children it is true. and so on. It doesnt matter whether the ideas are pleasing to you or the religious person or whatever. Christianity rose to extreme power, spread by force, and people genuinely believe it. And also, havent you noticed that christians really cling to the happy stuff they like and make excuses for the things they dont like? Thats how they keep hell off their minds. To us hell seems like a glaring huge massive issue in the belief system, to them it means almost nothing because they either dont think theyre going there at all, or they can make excuses for it and change it to be better. Like those who say hell isnt a place where the devil is, its just being apart from god. It survives by adapting to whatever people want it to be.

Wouldn't the people of antiquity just stomp it out on a whole?

What people of antiquity? A few hundred years ago 99% of the world population was religious. Atheists were killed, scientists were killed, anyone who opposed church doctrine was killed or created a new sect. There werent nearly enough people of antiquity to put even a dent in christianity.

I do not believe this religion, replaces man's mortality with something even worse would have gotten anywhere.

I can hardly believe it myself. But thats the sad reality of things. Its only recently that christianity has begun its decline.

Side: Yes

I say yes, I think the only justification religion ever had for its existence was keeping order in the world when we were to primitive to have any, and possibly even giving birth to our path towards civilization. However, that time has passed, and our minds on a philosophical level and moral level have evolved enough to be aware of our need for civilization. No longer is religion necessary to keep us civilized if we ever needed it at all. Religion now could be considered the leading cause of ignorance, name me something else that has caused those to relentlessly fight scientific advancement more than religion ever has. Tell me one other thing in the world that has went head on with the entire science community and tried to convince us that science is bad for society somehow. Religion exists still because we have generation after generation after generation AFTER generations of indoctorination and practically brainwashing being passed down, you get a civilization that cannot let go of religion. You get a parasitic relationship between God and man, religion and society. Religion isn't all bad, but as a whole I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing more than an elaborate parasitic con pulled on humanity by our ancestors in power. Let me make it very clear that I am in no way prejudice towards the religious, anyone who treats the religious less than any other over them being religious is garbage in my book. I however do think religion is a problem facing mankind, which will either be our downfall or we will slowly evolve from it starting with the most extreme forms of religion.

Side: Yes
1 point

It is based purelly on nonsense, stupid tales full of magic, animals that talks... it is really childish.

Side: Yes
2 points

No, religion will continue to evolve .

Side: No
xBetzy(123) Disputed
1 point

The purpose of religion is to not change that's why the Qur'an has all the same extremists following it and same thing with any other holy book. People may change Ideas don't, they are exchanged for new ones.

Side: Yes
atypican(4874) Disputed
1 point

The purpose of religion is to not change

That's what you think. By contrast, I think the purpose of religion is to have closer interactions with those who care most about what you care most about.

People may change Ideas don't, they are exchanged for new ones.

Got any interest in trying to prove this claim to me?

Saying that ideas don't change is about as silly as saying plans don't change

Side: No
2 points

The religion never dies in whatever forms it will come. While there exists humanity, the religion will always be there.

Side: No
1 point

I agree with you 100 percent. Thank you for actually understanding the reality of the discussion at hand.

I'd like to add that so long as human beings are curious about the world around them, Religion and Spirituality will remain. As you say.

Any other answer is just trying too hard to either say "Religion is outdated because it was used by primitive people with primitive mindsets, and they don't know any better"; people who say that do not know what the fuck they're talking about nor the concepts, nor abstract thinking, nor the overall bigger picture of what's actually going on and they do not understand the human being.

Side: No
1 point

I do believe it can give people hope. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss, and we are all ignorant of the afterlife. I may not be religious myself, but religion itself is not a bad thing. The issue with religion is when people seek power from it, like with religious law in Arab nations or like the medieval Crusades. Instead of saying religion is outdated, maybe mankind should step back and realize that religion really should not be a way to become more powerful for some, but a way to bring people together in times of need.

Side: No

It is good to have around. It brings part of a community together in a way that nothing else can.

It can even be used to help turn other peoples lives around, to help send them the right way. The words of the bible are transcribed in such a way that it accommodates many peoples emotions.

Side: No

Not really :/ In my opinion

Side: No

Okay, why do you think this ?

Side: No
1 point

Religion is simply a frame work of beliefs that describe the origin of man, his fundamental nature, how to morally interact with every thing else, and the nature of everything else. Atheism is a religious belief that asserts there is no deity and is usually accompanied with other religious beliefs about the nature of man and morality. If the assumption is that religious beliefs are untrue you are basing the debate on very controversial grounds and therefore do not have a strong argument.

We need religious beliefs to decide morality.

Side: No
1 point

no i think the world need religion to bring people hope not to give them fear of death like atheism do (I'm an ex atheist)

Side: No
AveSatanas(4433) Disputed
1 point

1) very few atheists are afraid/concerned with death

2) fearing death doesnt make religion true

3) we have therapists/psychologists/councelors ect to help with this. Religion isnt necessary

4) i doubt your an ex atheist

Side: Yes

Ex-atheists do happen, though they are a lot rarer than ex-theists, they are there. I personally know one but to be honest he's not the most freethinking of the bunch, and I think that's why he became a theist.

Side: Yes

less dogmatic religions like Buddhism, Daoism and Confucianism could still flouish in the modern world (even though these are much older than a lot of others).

Side: No
1 point

It may be unreasonable, but it is not outdated. Atheists could still use the same logic 2000 years ago. Obviously we know more now, but in both cases we don't know everything, but just because you don't have an answer doesn't mean someone else does.

Side: No

The problem is that we are not entirely rational- not stating that rationality is lacking so much that it is not alone. Even if all current religions are conclusively proven false by science, with perfect logical measurable explanations for everything- it won't be enough. If these explanations are not understood (or really, understandable) by everyone, it will ultimately still be an irrational emotional issue. Faith and emotion go hand in hand.

And why is that wrong, per se? If you're trying to explain things to someone and they flatout cannot understand what you're talking about, you're basically asking for their faith as much as their religion does. Maybe you don't see it that way, but in most things, its the viewpoint and perception of the audience that matters, not the speaker.

Until such time as all of the questions that people turn to religion for can be answered in a simple, definitive way that is intuitive to the average person (or really, to the below-average person, and the one below him, and so on), there will be a place for religion.

And so, religion is likely here to stay- the digger we deep in science, the more complicated the answers seem to be.

Want to have a chance of settling the question, once and for all? Figure out a way to explain it all so that somebody with an IQ that is JUST above the threshold of legally mentally handicapped can understand it. Even that likely won't be enough, but there is zero chance of it until it can be presented simply and intuitively.

Side: No

Religion is still going strong, however, organized religion is decreasing.

Side: No