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Debate Score:44
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 Is the Civil Rights Movement similar to the Gay Rights Movement? (24)

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Is the Civil Rights Movement similar to the Gay Rights Movement?

Does the gay community try to portray the Gay Rights Movement as the new Civil Rights Movement of our time?

If so, does/should the black community finds this offensive?

What is the worst a gay man has had to openly endure in the last 10 years? Can we compare that to what a black man had to endure during the 60's?

Is portraying the Gay Rights Movement as the new Civil Rights Movement of our time an exaggeration, only a tactic, a tool, to get what they want and nothing else?

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4 points

Is this a joke?

When blacks fought for their rights, they drew parallels to women's rights.

The Gay rights movement is for CIVIL RIGHTS. It's part of the same movement, just by a different group. Don't be ignorant. But then again, if you think being gay isn't anywhere near as hard as being black, you must be. You don't think gays are murdered for being who they are? Come on.

shisblack(1) Clarified
2 points

Well to put it simply while the Gay rights movement is a fight for civil right's it has nowhere near the length, danger, or open animosity of the Civil Right's Movement of the 1960's. The difference between then and now is that the Civil Rights Movement was thousands of times more dangerous than the Gay rights movement. The Gay rights movement can have parades and march and all sorts of other things. When black people did nothing but march and sing there were hoses and dogs turned on them. That is on major difference. Not to mention the Civil Rights Movement was not just restricted to the 60's. It happened from the moment slavery began up until then and really racism isn't completely gone now. One more difference and I'm done. The reason black people were hated and attacked by every white person was because of something that was openly seen, the color of their skin. Whereas homosexuals are only ridiculed by some, hated by few, and accepted by many is because of the fact that they made an invisible decision that wouldn't be known if America had not become such a sexual country and everyone did not commit PDAS and become open with their relationships. In a legal sense they are similar but upon the gravities of them there is no contest. Ignorance is the bane of our existence, but every single person in this world is ignorant because no one knows everything. Do not criticize what you do not understand. I have nothing against gay people. A few of my friends are gay but none of them think something so ludicrous.

I think that the black community thinks that the gay community is trying to portray the Gay Rights Movement as the new Civil Rights Movement of our time and that the black community finds this to be very offensive. What a gay man has had to openly endure for the last 10 years is not as bad as what a black man had to endure during the 60's. Portraying the Gay Rights Movement as the new Civil Rights Movement of our time is only a tool used to try and secure gay rights. If you don't recognize the tactic being used, you risk becoming an instrument that can be used to advance the given agenda. Advancing the gay agenda is not necessarily bad. Not knowing how you are being manipulated is bad.

Nazis portrayed Jews as rodents in order to manipulate people into killing Jews or, at the very least, to look the other way while they did the killing. This tactic is a very effective tool and can be used for evil. It is for this reason that this tactic should be exposed for what it is so that others have a chance to evaluate how it is being used on them before they commit to the cause applying the tactic. The cause applying the tactic is not inherently evil and must be evaluated in a case by case basis.

I pass no judgment on the Gay Rights Movement their cause nor their agenda. I merely feel uneasy about anyone that uses this tactic to advance their cause. Hell, I even feel uneasy when I use this tactic. Like when I just used it on this debate. Did you see it ;)

3 points

The way the blacks were treated in the 60s was horrible. The way gays are treated now is horrible. I think the difference is that blacks were treated poorly in an outwardly aggressive manner whereas the gays are treated poorly in a more passive aggressive way. There is a saying I have heard for this, "Being killed by a million little cuts." Yes, no one act against the gays as been as bad as some against the blacks, but there have been a lot of very little things that can really hurt a person over time.

3 points

Wow, what a sensitive subject. It's a difficult answer, especially since I am neither black nor gay. But I will give this a go.

First of all, I think most people relate "Civil Rights Movement" with the plight of the African-American Community here in the states during the sixties. But let's look at the definition (according to Merriam) Civil Rights: the nonpolitical rights of a citizen; especially: the rights of personal liberty guaranteed to United States citizens by the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution and by acts of Congress

Since slavery does not apply here, let's look at the 14th amendment,

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law, which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Ok, sounds like the gays qualify.

Now how about, how similar is the Gay right movement & the African-American rights movement?

1. "Who had it worse" arguments never work. The biggest difference here is that the African American civil rights movement began with slavery. A crime that was allowed by our government, which set a VERY VERY long and arduous path for the African-Americans to walk. That path they paved is why the march of the gays is not going to be quite so arduous. Which is why the black community and gay community should really be embracing each other. And if the gays really want to change things, they need to look at the black community to see how it's done.

2. At this time because of the animosity towards gays, we have no real idea how many gay hate crimes occur everyday. So it's hard to say what the casualties really are. Same with how many gays are treated badly in such a passive way that it can't really be proven that it was related to them being gay. Except for the massacre of gays during the holocaust in Germany. Such animosity towards gays is why this moment in WWII history is not even taught in schools. Read the linked article, and then tell me that the gays have not suffered. They have.

So yes, it is similar on the sense that every civil rights movement has the same goal, which is reinforcing their civil rights as guaranteed by the 14th amendment?

And it's different for two reasons.

First of all, every movement has it's own unique story to tell. African-Americans, Gays and yes, women's suffrage even. Heck, even the Irish Catholics couldn’t' find jobs when they were fresh off the boat. They could barley eat in restaurants outside their own neighborhoods. Until Joe Kennedy came along and had a son...but I digress.

Second, the gay community is unique in the sense that there are many many black gay men and women. Where is their voice in all this? How can we ignore the fact that here is a community that includes people from EVERY other oppressed group in history? That must mean something.

Supporting Evidence: Gays in the Holocaust (frank.mtsu.edu)
3 points

"i see gays beating up old religious women and invading churches... no hoses... no tear gas... i wonder why."

Wow that's a pretty wild and obviously untrue claim...gays beating up old religious women? Laughable.

There are alot of similarities between the two movements. And there are reports from all over of gays being attacked (lesbian raped by 4 men, college cheerleader attacked by straight couple yelling slurs, Mathew Sheppard anyone?).

Gay pride began to celebrate the fighting back (Stonewall riots) when police were invading gay clubs and beating people up for no other reason than they were gay.

Not in america, but let's also not forget gays were killed in numbers not even known during the holocaust.

There are over 1,000 laws that give rights to straight people that are currently being denied to gays and lesbians.

Even the president elect, whose own parent's marriage was not reconized by 12 states at the time, said about the issue that it's "a decision that the LGBT community has to make. That’s not a decision for me to make." Sounds very much like a government saying "it's not my problem".

And the fight is not limited to marriage. Gays also cannot serve openly in the military and cannot adopt in many states.

0 points

But it is not in our best interest to openly allow gays in the military. I mean, just think about it. If the world knew that we allow gays in out military, they would be like, "We are not afraid of you. Go ahead and send your American army to invade our country; we need you guys to do some interior decorating for us!"

We almost had the same problem when we let women join the military. But American women are not oppressed like other women around the world. This means that when they are PMSing, they are an unbridled force to be reckoned with. This is also why I always give women the right of way on the road. They usually have big hulking SUVs, may be carrying a loaded gun and they may be PMSing. That's a lethal combination. More volatile than a Molotov cocktail. If you don't believe me, just watch and see what kind of responses I get from women on this topic (;

1 point

Joe this comment is offensive on so many levels. We should base who we let into our army by the social standards of backward 3rd world nations? Do you think terrorists care if the guy that's shooting them likes penises?

I'm going to assume you were just making a joke (albeit a bad one) and hope you don't mean what you said.

Niko(101) Disputed
1 point

Wow. Not only did you prove that you cannot debate effectively, but you proved that you are completely ignorant. You are bringing in ignorant stereotypes into a serious debate, and your statements do NOT support you argument in any way whatsoever, due to their level of ignorance. I don't know what kind of sick joke of a troll mind you have to blatantly state that on this page, but it is completely grotesque and immature.

Let me inform you on why more men die in the army each year. Imagine two different firefights: one with an all-male squadron, and one with one female soldier, and the rest being males. Now, when a male in the first squadron becomes wounded, one member of the squadron will most likely do a quick check to see if he is ok. Now imagine if the female in Squad 2 gets hurt. Due to ridiculous stereotypes and sexism that have developed throughout human evolution, men are wired to feel bad and try to make women feel better if they see them injured, mentally or physically. If the women gets hit, regardless of it being a fatal shot or not, the men in the squadron are more likely to get distracted and do riskier things to help ease her pain. So not only is your statement not true, but, unless men can learn to grow balls and try to defend numerous lives instead of just one, women will cause men to do riskier things.

2 points

Can we all step back from this for a second and realize that injustice of any kind should not be tolerated? It isn't about who suffered more (if that is even a measurable concept).

2 points

I actually believe it is, and have come to terms with this fact a long time ago myself. Speaking on a Civil Rights basis, Martin Luther King is one of my most revered idols. Many of his quotes relate to the hate that gays receive.

"Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values

and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false

and the false with the true".

"Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

Unfortunately I do not remember the last one, naturally the best one, nor can I find it.

I wholeheartedly believe that if Mr. King was alive today, he would fight for gay rights. He fought for equality. Is that not what the gays want? Of course it is. So by denying them rights, and by saying that their movement has nothing to do with the Civil Rights movement, you are in fact saying that gays are less than whites, blacks, Mexicans, Indians, Native Americans, etc. Is that what you mean?

I do agree that the Civil Rights movement was largely more important in our nation's history than the gay movement, but they are similar. Scary similar.

As for what have gays endured? Ask them. They risk losing their jobs. Disowned by friends, family, and church. Many believe they risk salvation only because of their orientation. If you fall in love with someone who happens to be the same sex as you, is it under your control? Gays have undergone persecution very similar to the blacks. Some are murdered. Some are publicly humiliated and kicked out of their homes. Did you know that? I am friends with such people. Do not say what you do not know; it's called false information.

1 point

I have to agree, I also think MLK would encourage gays and lesbians to be allowed to have just as much rights as anyone else in this country. It's such a shame that all these closed minded idiots can't see things for what they really are. If a gay person, even if you don't know they're gay was working at an Emergency room dept as a doctor and he or she saved the life of a child, would it matter who that doctor went home to or who that doctor slept with? No, it wouldn't. I have noticed so many of these arguments are the same as the ones the black folks were making for their rights years ago. making the same statements as the gays and lesbians are making now, sound familiar? I can only hope that one day our country will be open to everyone and their differences. It used to be if a person was a jew, they couldn't marry someone who wasn't, a black and white couldn't get married and women couldn't vote and were allowed to get beaten by their husbands. Times change and so do people. We do "evolve" to a more open mind and allow ourselves to be more open to others differences and opinions on matters. just think how our country was 2oo years ago, Oh boy! I couldn't imagine living in a time with such hate and pure ignorance. Still today it is hate and ignorance and prejudiced people, but we have evolved in many ways, towards people of color, women and the rights of individuals who live here. I have noticed that , in the south where i live, that many of these so called christians, "bible thumpers are so ready to be the ones who cause so much trouble in our country. So many of these ignorant folk think if you're not a christian than you're just wrong!! they're right and everyone else is wrong and going to hell! I thought that our country was founded because people wanted freedom to practice whatever relegion that they wanted to. I thought that being a christian meant to love one another, whoever or whatever they are, guess not!! I consider myself a christian, one that loves everyone, no matter who or what GOD you pray to, even if you don't have one. I also believe that nobody has the right to judge anyone else for their sexuality, color of their skin or if you're gay or straight, Christian or non Christian. These idiots who think they know everything and it's their way or the wrong way are just ignorant, closed minded babbling fools. I also think that women, blacks and anyone else who has ever been treated bad for who they were, can all relate to the issues today that the gay community is going through. You dont have to be black to have "suffered" from the hands and minds of hateful people. I have suffered, being a woman once married to a man who thought women had their place"which was in the bedroom and kitchen" and nowhere else, unless it was doing something for him of course. I can relate to being mistreated for 'who I am', "what i was born". I think that

's why it is so important for us North Carolinians to vote against Amendment one come may8th. If you want rights for everyone and have to brain to see the difference between love and hate and just plain ignorance and hate, vote against it!! I am, I'll never vote for such a thing, never! like i said " i love everybody, no matter who or what you are".

2 points

This is mistaken on the premise that the Gay Rights movement excludes the Civil Rights movement of the blacks. It is merely an addition to the long chain of marginalised or oppressed minorities.

In the case of being gay, it carries with it many broken homes because parents and family refuse to accept the lifestyle of their son or daughter. It carries many suicides due to bullying, family disapproval, and in some cases violence.

And yet we see certain unscrupulous individuals who seek to take every opportunity to make the lives of these people more difficult, by trying to associate them with pedophilia and incest.

2 points

It is an insult to African Americans to call this a civil rights movement.

First off we need to establish the civil rights movement was about having equal constitutional rights. Did the constitution protect African Americans the same way it protected those of European descent? Obviously Not.

- They could not vote.

- They could not study in the same schools as whites.

- They did not have the same rights and priorities as whites.

and the list goes on and on...

So here is the question. What constitutional right is taken away from a homosexual? They can vote, eat in the same restaurants as non-gays, they can join churches, live together, kiss in public, express their opinions freely, and so on. So what CONSTITUTIONAL rights are taken away from homosexuals?

For those of you that say, "what about marriage?", you are going to have to explain to me what is so oppressive as to compare it to the horrendous and unjust actions taken against the African Americans. It is laughable to think that not being able to vote, not being able to speak your opinion, not being able to study in a good school, or ever attain a good job is in any way comparable to receiving petty tax benefits for married persons.

Now who will be the first to accuse me of being a bigot or homophobe?

1 point

I agree with what f-smith has to say about this issue. They a made very good point. Also l believe marriage is a moral contract created by God. For the furtherance of the human race with its parameters of practicing sexual relations in the context of the union between one man and one woman. Not a societal right made by people. To get financial benefit or social privilege. IE acceptance for ones immoral lifestyle.

1 point

No the Gay movement is nothing like civil rights movements.The Gay movement is for them to marry not for Independence.

1 point

First and for most, the Civil Rights Movement was in some way similar to the Gay Rights Movement. Not only were they both struggling to get there basic human rights, but both African Americans and Gays were being harassed and sexual abused. They were both discriminated against and both had a history of there struggles that to this day still continue.

Gays didn't have to fight for there rights til the 4th century but Gays were first founded in The 24/25th century BEFORE COMMON ERA. At first they were accepted but as the years past by, The discrimination against them begun and til' this day we still have to fight for the basic rights of a human being for Gays.

Although, African Americans weren't accepted when they were first discovered. Right away they were enslaved and had no rights to help them out. They've been fighting for years and like the gays, to this day there are a little bit of issues of stereotyping. Difference is, gays aren't fully accepted now, but blacks are in most countries.

Here is another big difference, blacks were attacked more often and more ruthlessly than gays. There are video clips showing blacks being beaten by the police, dogs attacking blacks, blacks being sprayed with fire hoses, being forced to the back of the bus, denied access to certain bathrooms and drinking fountains, lynched, etc. I don't think gays have had it that bad. Do you ;)

0 points

ZOMG, WHAT HAD GAY PEOPLE TO ENDURE? HOW ABOUT ONE OUT OF FIVE GAY TEENAGERS SUCCESSFULLY MAKING A SUICIDE?!!!!

DID BLACK PEOPLE EVER ENDURE SUCH AN OPPRESSION AS TO HAVE SUCH RESULTS?!!!!

I HIGHLY DOUBT IT!

[edit]Ok, maybe I went a little defensive with the caps, but why should black people be insulted?! They were in similar position and now they are to deny other minorities to get equal treatments?!

WHY?! It's not like they are EVIL and just wanted to rule the groups and think "those pesky gays are worthless compared to elevated black race"!!!

I'm quite certain they don't want to be KKK for the gays! It's absurd!

[edit2]Besides, what would that repulsive idea mean to a black gay person?! Ever thought of that?!

"If so, does/should the black community finds this offensive? "...GARRRH, what a MORON thing to say!

[edit3]Maybe when YOU are going to have heart attacks at the age of 18 because of stressing out for not being able to change your sexual orientation you might understand!!!!!!!!!

Side: You have got to be kidding me
wesser45(2) Disputed
1 point

You are sick and insane if saying gay people who made a conscious choice to be gay. Have/had it harder than Black people. You must be white or some other ethnic group who doesn't have a clue of what Black people's history consists of, or of the history of white supremacy and its dealing with people of color. Just because someone derides someone over an immoral lifestyle choice. Doesn't make it the same as one being annihilated and oppressed for ones own ethnicity and birthright. It is complete and utter lunacy on your part for you to think such an erroneous and naive thought.

Side: You have got to be kidding me
0 points

well, we live in an era where no one can marry the opposite sex... and same sex couples can't adopt. Wow, that's totally like being arrested for NO REASON, or being shot by vigilantes and the country officials saying "not my problem".

So like being arrested for BEING AN OLD WOMAN WHO'S TOO TIRED TO GET UP FOR A YOUNG WHITE MAN. totally like being HOSED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREETS whenever you protest. Fuck dude, i see gays beating up old religious women and invading churches... no hoses... no tear gas... i wonder why.

It must be like not being able to drink from the same water fountain, or not going to the same schools, or using the same bathrooms. After all, you can't get married to someone of the same sex... exactly the same then.

Side: Of Course Not
1 point

shit, revision, "no one can marry the SAME sex"

Side: Of Course Not
jeratx(2) Disputed
1 point

New to this site so my argument was posted one or two below

Side: Of Course Not