Is the Confederate battle flag a racist symbol
Being that the American flag was flown on the ships bringing the slaves to America
Being that Lincoln never freed the slaves in the northern or border states.
Why do those on the left claim it is the Confederate battle flag that is a symbol of racism
Gee, it could be because it was the flag that represented a pseudo-nation whose very existence was based on defending their right to employ slave labor.
Edit: Additionally, arguing that "other things are racist" is not evidence that the Stars'N'Bars somehow lacks racism, or is any less racist. Lincoln should not be venerated the way he is, in my opinion (especially here in Illinois), and the U.S. flag (as well as the country itself) does have a very racist history. But that does not negate or mitigate the racism of the Confederacy.
Being that the Civil War was not about slavery, but about northern aggression against the south, not sure about your first point. The argument can be made that the American north at the time of the Civil War had the same outlook on blacks as the southern people did. And it was the north who bought the slaves here in the first place. So I believe the racism was on both sides of the border
You have that one wrong friend
I completely agree! Everyone points their finger at the south today in reminiscence of the slavery days,however, nobody ever brings up the stories of how awfully free African Americans were treated in the North United States. The South viewed the slaves as profit makers where as in the North, African Americans were viewed as partially human. Poor kids don't know much these days I assume.
Being that the Civil War was not about slavery, but about northern aggression against the south
Oh please. The South was threatened by the possibility of slavery being outlawed, something that their economy fundamentally relied upon, and rebelled, claiming it was about their right to self determination.
The argument can be made that the American north at the time of the Civil War had the same outlook on blacks as the southern people did.
I wouldn't say the same, but certainly not far off, which has to do with why I don't understand why people venerate Lincoln like they do, especially considering his suspension of Habeus Corpus and his appointment of Grant, one of the most horrifying figures in U.S. history.
And it was the north who bought the slaves here in the first place. So I believe the racism was on both sides of the border
No, not really. It was the Thirteen colonies, some of which made up the Confederacy, that did so. The South disproportionately relied upon said slaves for their economy, even before we became a country, however.
There are so many stories made up to excuse the slavery that was the REAL reason for the war. Sorry, no excuses. Whatever, the war crime against America and its Constitution BY those who made the excuses is enough to make it America's swastika. Nothing against those who fought under it, just the reasoning they were raised to believe....like the black man (or woman) was only 3/5ths of a person, had no rights (including voting), could be sold as "property" as well as USED as such. There is no place in America, outside of museums and personal property (including cemetery space), for this flag.
It's a symbol of the self reliant and rugged pioneers whose innovation and enterprise made the U.S.A., the greatest nation on earth. The adoption of the liberal's fanciful and romantic notion that all men are born is the sole reason why the U.S, is a nation in decline and continues to sink. To adapt a quote from George Orwell's Animal farm, 'all animals are born equal, it's just that some animals are more equal than others. The same principle applies to people. Natural selection is the evolution of mankind and the other animals with which we share this planet. To deny that fact and meddle with the natural order of things is an enormous mistake with disastrous results. No one made the sub classes inferior, that's just the way they are, they must be allowed to become extinct so the strong can flourish and become stronger.
(1) It is entirely possible for a symbol to have multiple meanings. While the Confederate flag may symbolize the pseudo-historical "self reliant and rugged pioneer" to you, it has also long been the standard of white supremacist organizations actively classified as racially motivated terrorist groups.
(2) The concept of the "liberal" today is utterly different than what it would have been during the era of the Civil War. Your reliance upon a false dichotomy in the context of contemporary affairs is bad enough; that you insist upon classifying everything you disagree with as "liberal" when the application of the term is entirely useless is just ingenious.
(3) While evolution favors intra-species differentiation it also favors inter-species. Which is to say that while human groups naturally stratify into varying degrees of power and status, too great a variation or too great an abuse of the lower status demographic(s) is destabilizing to the collective. Despite your objections, evolution appears to be selecting gradually towards more equitable and democratic social organization. I harbor no delusions that actual equality or actual democracy are probable or even possible, but then again I do not think that is why evolution selects favorably for it. The concepts of equality and democracy create more fluidity within the established hierarchy, allowing gifted individuals to rise from lower ranks when they otherwise would not be able to absent the aforementioned concepts.
(4) The manner in which you have (mis)applied the Animal Farm quote indicates that you fundamentally lack an understanding of the book itself, and certainly of Orwellian philosophy at large. Animal Farm is a dark satire rebuking the very argument you are trying to advance.
Well, I wouldn't say the Confederate battle flag is inherently racist. The Confederacy itself is viewed in a negative way since it was formed by seven slave states. The flag itself is just a battle flag. I think there was a different flag that represented the Confederacy, but I'm not entirely sure. I guess in conclusion the fact that the Confederates fought for the continuation of slavery (mostly for economical reasons) makes the flag a negative thing.
So your idea of deciding if a controversial symbol that can only be understood for its meaning,by means comprehensive research, should be to parade it around an area that is known to be of the lesser educated portion of the United States? On top of that, a region that is prone to violence of mob mentality? I am not supporting or neglecting any race/ethnicity in particular,however, there were numerous repots of blacks attacking whites during those "protests" JUST because of the color of their skin;you'd be blind and ignorant if you thought the issues we face today lay with one side. Something to think about is that 1 black male is killed by a white police officer (Not to mention the media failed to provide his criminal record (Baltimore) which consisted of multiple felony charges), and the country goes nuts; approximately a quarter of the potential African American population is terminated via Birth Control/ Planned Parent Hood, not a whisper... This is coming from a European perspective. Media will do anything and everything in its power to cause controversy just for ratings an if you believe you are establishing a decent argument off the basis of mainstream media outlet "facts", then go ahead and keep sipping your kool-aid.
Whilst the flag may be used by minority groups that support racism I would pose the idea that it is a symbol of resistance.
In a previous post I wrote "As far as I have read it appears that it was the revolution in 1776-1778 that created the US in the first place and because that event did not resolve the issue of whether the US would have a central government or be a confederation of states it was the Civil War nearly a hundred years later that decided the outcome.
The states that sided with a central government became the North and those who opposed became the Confederacy or the South. The end of the Civil War did determine the issue of slavery, though the way I read it, it was the unity of the US that was at stake and the fundamental issue of why they went to war.
So herein lies a tale of political intrigue that through war firmly established the "United" States of America and whilst the abolition of slavery was the torch bearer, the underlying goal was a unified country under a central government
If you think about it the Confederate State represented the heart and soul of America. When England demanded too much from the colonies they rebelled. The same thing occurred once we were a nation. The northern states which were more cosmopolitan demanded more and more from the southern states which were agricultural (there for requiring more physical labor to produce goods, which required the already established practice of slavery to accomplish). So the southern state wanted to secede from the northern (richer) states, or to revolt against them, or to maybe rebel. Hey, if we are gonna rebel, we should get our own flag. Maybe we should call it a rebel flag, gee I hope people don't simplify it later and call us assholes and redneck cause we didn't like producing all the food for the Yankees and being treated like shit and just trying to follow the model upon which this country was founded.
It was in the best interest of the plantation owners to keep their slaves fed and healthy (for the time). And many slave owners were reasonable kind to them (again for the time); which is why after they were freed many slaves stayed on at the plantation as a share cropper, where they would do the same exact thing before they were freed and share the profits with the people who owned the land they worked.
You are confusing social/ethical standards of today with those from a time you cannot imagine living in.
If you want to get indignant about slavery, try talking about the Chinese brought over to build the railroads, now that was fucked up.
I don't think it is. Slavery wasn't all the confederacy stood for. And after all, the civil war is a huge part of American history, taking down the flag would be one step toward forgetting our own history. At least, I think it's a reminder, if nothing else, of what would have happened had the confederacy seceded from the union. But in reality, the confederacy was a whole lot more than just slavery.
not only is it the BATTLE flag of traitors, but it has since come to SYMBOLIZE white supremacy and racial hatred.
it has no place on display in any public place where government dollars are at work.
you want to put it up over your fireplace to show ppl when they come to dinner, fine.... that way they can know where you are coming from and walk out, if they have any sense.
where the hell do you get that they were anything but?
they revolted against the duly elected government of the United States and went to WAR with it.....
... and LOST.
that's about the DEFINITION of traitor.
how much more treasonous does a population have to become before YOU call them traitors?
do they have to join ISIS or something?
AND, if you what to get more contemporary, the Counsel of Conservative Citizens (CofCC) which inspired the recent actions of a man in SC is as much of a terrorist recruiting organization as ISIS is.