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5
7
Yes NO
Debate Score:12
Arguments:11
Total Votes:13
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 Yes (5)
 
 NO (6)

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PungSviti(552) pic



Is the bravery of US soldiers in Iraq exagerated (generally)

This is a follow up on  http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/How_proud_can_one_be_of_the_soldiers_partaking_in_the_Iraq_War/debate

I guess most of you know about this video by now. If you dont- take a look

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Yes

Side Score: 5
VS.

NO

Side Score: 7
1 point

Concerning the bravery of US soldiers going into war. It got me thinking. So I looked up how many soldiers have been shipped over to Iraq in this war and got 1.6 million. Of those people 4300 have died. That means that one out of 372 dies. Now that is quite similar both in death rate and in work force on a large construction site (it is common for large construction sites to have at least one death over a period of 2-4 years while the production is going on and usually the work force is somwhere around 200-500 people depending on the size of the project). So the risk of going into Iraq (for American soldiers who have all sorts of super high-tech gadgets to distance themselves from the people they are killing -like in the video) is on average not more than working on a large construction site. (lets say building a dam)

So on average (and I want to stress ON AVERAGE - because some guys going to Iraq actually have jobs that are much more dangerous than others, and therfore are much braver) but again on average, US soldiers are not neccisarilly much braver than construction workers.

War is hell - And I dont want to belittle the psycological harm it can do to soldiers, but I think Americans highly overrate the bravery of their soldiers given how the odds are stacked with them (on average) with all the fine tools America builds for killing people from a distance.

Side: yes

I think you have to put your ass on the line before you can judge. It's easy to sit your ass on down in front of the TV and claim, "That's not so brave!"

Side: No
PungSviti(552) Disputed
0 points

My point isnt that it is not brave at all, and I admit I would rather not be there (Id rather not work on a construction site either). But the biggest reason for not wanting to be there is that I wouldnt want to senselessly kill people for no real cause. The second biggest reason would be the danger.

I understand that if you senselessly attack a country you are going to sitr up the beehive so to speak, but my point is that the rules of engagement in this war have been made as cussy as possible for the US soldiers - mainly by giving them great remote controlled toys to play with, and also they(along with most Americans) are brainwashed into believing that anyone in the rural area´s they visit are potential terrorist and therefore it is supposedly not a great mistake if you shoot a few civilians that "get in the way".

Americans have greatly dehumanized the Iraq population, and the civilian death toll is shamefull for Americans. But I am sure you guys are going to be in denial about this for the rest of your lives.

Side: yes
1 point

many of them didn't ask to be sent over there especially for more than one tour they go where they are sent it is part of being a solider and going where you are told they are brave to put their lives on the line for our freedom

Side: No
1 point

An interesting statistic, but quite propagandish.

in a construction site, you aren't likely to get captured by the enemy and tortured (real torture... like sawing off your limbs and shit). In a construction site, you aren't likely to get shot in a hot desert and left for scorpions and ants to eat you alive.

In a construction site, you aren't likely to get attacked while you're sleeping.

let's see, in a construction site, you don't have to worry about:

attacked while taking a shit

staking out a target for 3 days in a trench

watching your buddies get slaughtered

having to kill a man

driving and then all of a sudden exploding

yes, thanks to our successful leadership, we have the lowest casualties (for the time we've been out there) in American war history, but that doesn't all of a sudden mean that Construction workers are, on average, just as brave as American soldiers.

Side: No
PungSviti(552) Disputed
1 point

I acknowledged that the psychological part is worse in the war - the question isn't if the two are equal - the question is "Is the bravery of US soldiers in Iraq exaggerated (generally)"

I think in America it is greatly exaggerated, and at the same time the deaths of Iraq citizens is greatly belittled

I dont think the low casuality rate for US soldiers has anything to do with great leadership - it has to do with the macabre methods Americans have used (and the video link shows) of killing people in rural areas from a great distance, without verifying if the people they are killing are actually militia, and not caring much if they kill citizens in the process - and the death rate of Iraq citizens (over 100 thousand) is strong evidence for this.

Side: yes
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
1 point

Well, for all the things I've described up there, you'd have to be very brave to let yourself into that Hell. So no, it's not exaggerated.

Iraqi citizens are constantly killed by al-Qaeda and insurgents for helping American soldiers. sure, we do our part in collateral damage (which I don't mind since it is war, but Petraus has been very strong on making sure that the "Total War" style that Lincoln allowed doesn't happen in Iraq... I actually prefer Total War, though) but this does not make US soldiers some evil, destructive force like the Orcs or something. They have great Generals running the show.

Side: No
1 point

Comparing a man who is going through the psychological trauma of having to kill people, and watch people die is in no form or shape close to a construction worker dieing from falling off of a scaffold.

Just because the numbers match up doesn't mean the bravery does.

Side: No
PungSviti(552) Disputed
1 point

I acknowledged that the psychological part is worse in a war - the question isn't if the two are equal - the question is "Is the bravery of US soldiers in Iraq exaggerated (generally)"

I think in America it is greatly exaggerated, and at the same time the deaths of Iraq citizens is greatly belittled

Side: yes
DaWolfman(3322) Disputed
1 point

If the war was here there would be collateral damage just as there is in Iraq. The war just happens to be there. You can say that any countries soldiers bravery is exaggerated if you are going off of this basis.

No soldiers were really brave in Rwanda, US soldiers weren't really brave in Vietnam, soldiers as a whole aren't really brave due to their killing of innocents. Is this the gist of things from your perspective?

Side: No