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5
8
Wow, great idea. Should have happen before now.
Debate Score:13
Arguments:13
Total Votes:13
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 Wow, great idea. (5)
 
 Should have happen before now. (8)

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Is the tripling of the Nation's population the answer to our current plight?

The answer to the Biden induced dire straits in which we find ourselves has been staring us in the face all along.
All we have to do is import six hundred million, (600,000,000) immigrants and, hey presto, all our problems are solved and we're back on top of the world.
There may be a few minor hurdles to be surmounted but we can ''JUMP'' OFF THOSE BRIDGES WHEN WE COME TO THEM.
LET'S GO FOR IT. 

Wow, great idea.

Side Score: 5
VS.

Should have happen before now.

Side Score: 8
1 point

Well there will be no problem in financing this project as all we have to do is quadruple our existing $28 trillion national debt, NO PROBLEM, RIGHT.

Then we will have to think about the provision of professional health care and specialized medical facilities for our 600 million new immigrants, NO PROBLEM, RIGHT??.

Also, there will be the greater demand on our public transport systems, NO PROBLEM, RIGHT?

After this we must greatly expand our highway infrastructure to accommodate the enormous surge in vehicular traffic which will be an inevitable result the extra 600 million people will cause, NO PROBLEM, RIGHT??

We must not forget the education of our new additions and will have to construct nursery schools, high schools and colleges, NO PROBLEM, RIGHT?

On the law of averages there will be a percentage of criminals, terrorists and potential terrorists among the six hundred million immigrants. However, this additional crime wave can be easily dealt with by recruiting a few extra million police officers along with the construction of 1000s more police stations and Judicial administrative institutions. NO PROBLEM, RIGHT?

Finding jobs for the bread-winners of the 600 million newly arrived will be easy, RIGHT?

Any inescapable ethnic or racial rivalry among the immigrants will be simply quelled with a few cleverly worded scripts expounding the benefits of racial harmony and the merits of cultural diversity, you know, just as it is now. NO PROBLEM, RIGHT.

ROARS OF LAUGHTER FROM THE BACK STALLS

Side: Wow, great idea.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

If people are such a problem, why did the 13 colonies let so many Americans move to the USA? Are you a native American or are you an immigrant? If people are such a problem, why do people expect Chinese power to pass the USA's power?

Side: Should have happen before now.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

re: "there will be the greater demand on our public transport systems"

Does Montana have a problem with Traffic? Sometimes, but they deal with it. Does Germany have a hard time with traffic? No. They actually do pretty well. Traffic is a density problem. Even if we had 1 billion people in the USA our traffic would be 1/2 of Germany's traffic per square mile. Because we would have 1/2 the people Germany has per square mile.

Side: Should have happen before now.
luchito(79) Disputed
1 point

I disagree in part.

Living in DC area for more than 40 years and I can tell.

Traffic has been always heavy at rush hour in this city. It was in the past a heavy traffic going to the city in the mornings, and heavy traffic going out of the city at afternoons.

Today the heavy traffic is both ways mornings and afternoons.

The population has increased, of course, but the real problem is not population in numbers but new construction in numbers inside a central location.

When I moved to this city I used to pick up 2x4 leftovers from a construction site and deliver them to an intersection on 7th Street/Georgia Avenue in North West. Over there, in an ally lots of homeless had a barrel which was used to be lit with fire in order to warm them up in Winter. They used to fill up the barrel with broken chairs, etc. In those years most business were established in one floor buildings.

Years later, the city started to change a lot. Homeless were lesser in number, I have no idea were they went because the only ones still staying lived in the "Federal area" around the monuments. The color of residents in several streets changed from black to white, and old houses were remodeled changing the whole interior and building them again. Areas were drug business was made outside in the streets, started to be closed and new construction took place.

Until 25 to 30 years ago, the new buildings in downtown were to have the old colonial style, and many new constructions were made saving the whole front of the old building. But, new administrations revoked such requirement and new building appeared in modern styles.

Office buildings and residential buildings started to replace one floor old constructions. Many areas which were "parks" started to be occupied by buildings. The old traditional motto of preserving those green areas to let the city breathing better was gone... money talks, and surely the new Mayors and city councils have had very good cuts or monetary incentives to change completely the old plan made to have a healthy capital city.

The new city plan is so bad, that after the remodeling of the Mather Luther King library, parking was not included. And today, if you want to visit that library and read a book, it will cost you $15 an hour for parking... better will be for you to keep being an illiterate ha ha ha ha ha

In other words, the city has been planned to remove minorities and low income people. Most of Public Housing properties have disappeared in Washington DC, to be replaced by private business and residential. (Of course Public Housing properties were surely centers of prostitution, drugs and people living on food stamps, but that was also because government employees never did properly their job. Something that I can tell).

Having more housing and business in downtown area is causing a huge traffic trap everyday. The population has not increased much in this zone of the city, but the business buildings are filled with lots of new employees who prefer driving their cars rather than taking Metro.

The State of Virginia has found a way to collect good money from this problem, and is charging an average of $13 for using their main exit from Washington DC after crossing one of the bridges. (Perhaps Virginia State or the correspondent city will do the same with the other main bridge at 14th Street, but I think that won't happen because is a route to the airport). On the other hand Maryland suffered a lot when absorbing most of low income people who moved out when Public Housing properties were demolished. (Note that those properties were partially demolished already by the residents of those buildings, you have no idea how those people destroyed everything in those properties)

Point is that yes, higher population might be a cause for heavy traffic in cities, but I think that the bigger problem is the poor planning that has been enforced, when business received green light to fill up the blocks with huge buildings lots of offices and apartments in downtown areas. Washington DC is getting rich with parking tickets and also moving violations. This is another consequence of the bad traffic planning, made with the intention of making profit for the city.

Side: Wow, great idea.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

re: "Then we will have to think about the provision of professional health care and specialized medical facilities for our 600 million new immigrants."

Why can't we bring people from all over the world that have health care skills. I didn't know about this until I read the book but did you know that: "More than 130 rural hospitals have closed over the past decade, and nearly 900 additional rural hospitals — over 40% of all rural hospitals in the country — are at risk of closing in the near future. Over 500 hospitals are at immediate risk of closure because they have experienced large financial losses over multiple years. Over 300 additional hospitals are at high risk of closing due to low financial reserves or high dependence on local taxes or state grants. Millions of people could be directly harmed if these hospitals close." They are closing because our rural communities are shrinking.

Side: Should have happen before now.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

re: "We must not forget the education of our new additions and will have to construct nursery schools, high schools and colleges, NO PROBLEM, RIGHT?"

Who says we only have to let in those without degrees? Liberals like to let in those without education, so that blue-collar people have more competition for their jobs. Why don't we let in highly educated people, and let liberals elite compete for their jobs? If competition is good for the poor, it should also be good for the Rich. These Hollywood people who always told us that we need immigration, can compete with more Rich foreign born Hollywood actors. I think competition is good, but it isn't only good for poor Americans. The average salary for those being allowed into our country should be higher than the average American's salary. So when we tax them, we can build stuff.

Side: Should have happen before now.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

re: "In the law of averages there will be a percentage of criminals, terrorists and potential terrorists among the six hundred million immigrants. However, this additional crime wave can be easily dealt with by recruiting a few extra million police officers along with the construction of 1000s more police stations and Judicial administrative institutions. NO PROBLEM, RIGHT?"

Right. We can handle between 2% and 5% growth per year.

Side: Should have happen before now.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

re: "Finding jobs for the bread-winners of the 600 million newly arrived will be easy, RIGHT?"

I never said just open the door and let anyone who wanders in come to America. We could only let those who have job offers come in.

Side: Should have happen before now.
1 point

In the past the arrival of immigrants was necessary to populate empty and wild areas, plus to impede the wish from Indians of returning back to their former lands.

In the past crossing the border from and to Mexico was not a great deal, same with the border with Canada.

But, today the situation is different. Let me explain.

Several months ago, some house owners in my city decided to rent their "one family" house to five or more families. Of course, there was no contract, no inspection of the house, and the owner started to make good profit.

To the rest such was not a problem. But, the new residents had cars, trucks, vans, and even someones used to bring their company's truck home. So, parking became a problem. I myself had to park one or two of our cars a block or two around the corner at nights.

Another problem was school buses. Rather than one school picking up students, in the selected street corners were two and even three school buses needed to pick up students.

Complaints about parking were made at the city hall, and the solution became to be having car stickers proving residence in our city.

Here is when parking went back to normality. Those families living in one house weren't able to prove they lived in the city because they had no renting receipts. The owners of those houses didn't want to provide rent receipts because such will cause them to bring an inspector and check living conditions.

It took months for parking returning back to normal in my city, but the Mayor's decision did work.

These from above are as an analogy a good example of what is having uncontrolled immigration. The lack of stopping a hidden increase of population causes the need of more stores, hospitals, schools, and so forth without following an ordered model but just by taking urgent measurements.

Having two or three buses to pick up students when the plan was always one bus, such is a huge change. This is not just about the amount of students to be transported but also about the allowed number of students in a classroom, and so forth.

Illegal immigration is not noticed because authorities don't report the problems, so, the problem is the lack of interest from their part to find a real solution.

And while politicians play the game of being "compassionate" with illegal immigrants, millions of them laugh of the American system and cross the borders like entering to their own houses.

To me legal immigration is the only path to make the country more prosperous and having more opportunities of progress, having in mind that this progress will benefit the cities, the States and the country in general.

The biggest problem is that illegal immigrants don't assimilate to the American society but they make their own societies. I witness many business posting the flag of their country of origing in front of their business and houses until the city remove it.

Ruth, the biblical character, is the best example of what an immigrant must be when wants to be part of the new country: "Your God will be my God, your people will be my people".

This is what assimilation is about, learning the language and culture of the land and be part of it. The idea of bringing foreign people like crazy just to experiment a solution for the future is not the right answer. Accelerated immigration was necessary in the past due to the conditions of the land in 1500, 1600, 1700 and 1800.

But today the conditions are totally different, and politicians and authorities must be aware of that.

Side: Wow, great idea.
1 point

This is truly the answer.

You know this idea is the epitome of the old saying;- sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.

We have been struggling for yonks with the depressing spectacle of our Nation in decline and all the while we had the answer right in front of us.

WELL, BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.

EVEN LOUDER ROARS OF LAUGHTER FROM THE BACK STALLS.

Side: Should have happen before now.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

1) Initial Cost:

Zero dollars. Get the quantity that liberals want, but let conservatives run it. We can tax immigrants higher. They won't mind. If they are making 5 times their salary they could make in the other country, then we will tax them more. If they don't want to, they don't have to. Lets do all the low hanging fruit first. The English speakers, the people with skills that we need.

2) Timeline:

We would grow between 2.5% over the next 50 year, or 5% over the next 25 years.

3) The zones to be designated for the influx of some 600 million people:

We would try to move them as much as possible to the dying towns and cities all across America.

4) From where would you draw your immigrants?

Liberals chose the quantity, conservatives chose the qualifications in order to get a real compromise. The goals is American power, not charity. We can also do charity, but that is not the prime goal. We can debate what will result in the most benefit to America, but we would like to brain drain evil places. The goal would be to rally freedom loving and democracy loving people from all over the planet to be prepared for when Chinese citizens are on average just as wealthy as European and American citizens, so they don't get to dictate the future of the planet from an authoritarian repressive society that doesn't value freedom or democracy. The goal would be to draw the citizens that would integrate into American society the best. We can debate what qualities get what points, but we would prefer English speaking. However, we don't need to be afraid of freedom, and markets that draw people who are poor. It is better to employ them within our country, than to send jobs over seas.

5) A melting pot?

Less politics of grievances resentment and us vs them. Unity. Integration not separation. All believers of democracy, freedom, and well regulated capitalism are welcome. E pluribus unum. Out of many, one. (the motto of the US). Liberals need to show that they are proud of democracy, freedom, the progress we have made, and our common hopes and dreams. We are not so different, and should not exaggerate our differences. If they emphasize our shared destiny, our common humanity, we will be less concerned about fragmentation, isolation, and internal hatred.

6) Will the 600 million immigrants have sufficient teachers, medical personnel.

Side: Wow, great idea.
myclob(437) Disputed
1 point

I removed the ban on you if you want to try not just calling me names.

Side: Wow, great idea.
1 point

re: "All we have to do is import six hundred million, (600,000,000) immigrants and, hey presto, all our problems are solved"

I never said all our problems are solved. If we do it right, then our problem of being smaller than China is solved.

Also, I said to do it over 25 to 50 years at either 2.5% increase per year or 5% increase per year.

Side: Should have happen before now.