Challenge Debate: Is the universe a simulation?

1 point

The burden of proof isn't on the one saying it's a simulation but on the one saying this is real to begin with.

Explain how everything can come from nothing (it can't).

The entire laws of physics and concept of reality that we currently hold make no sense whatsoever at the quantum/origin level of reasoning.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

↑ Hide Replies

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

The burden of proof isn't on the one saying it's a simulation but on the one saying this is real to begin with.

I would say the burden of proof is equal in this instance as there is very little you can do to definitively prove it either way.

Explain how everything can come from nothing (it can't).

Explain how a simulation/intelligent design can remedy this paradox anymore than naturalistic explanations? Just by saying "it was created" or "it's not real" you cannot escape the paradox.

The entire laws of physics and concept of reality that we currently hold make no sense whatsoever at the quantum/origin level of reasoning.

That's true, because humans have no idea what this universe is or why it exists. Our notions of quantum physics could largely be contrived from mathematical fantasy. The human mind has clearly defined limits, we are capable of two types of thinking- Conceptual/subjective thinking and "physical" thinking so to speak. We are often aware that there is something "more" which we often associate with metaphysical or spiritual thinking (which is really just a form of conceptual thinking). What this means is that we are capable of understanding the properties of things, but not their existential essence. We are also full of subjective baggage that further muddies the waters when it comes to our understanding of the essence and the origin of reality. On top of that our ability to understand physical properties is limited by the very nature of our biology, we have a limited sensory range, only experience 3 spatial dimensions, we have "common sense" notions about reality like "up and down" which are entirely subjective. When you consider our inherent limitations along with the limitations of our ability to study the properties of things at a quantum level (we are restricted to mathematics, and can only 0bserve quantum mechanical "objects" by destroying them or disturbing them) It's no wonder that none of it makes sense to us. The universe being a simulation doesn't fix any of these problems about reality, what about the underlying reality that is actually real?

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

↑ Hide Replies

1 point

Okay so to be clear you are not in any way arguing against it.

The only point of disagreement is where you say:

"Explain how a simulation/intelligent design can remedy this paradox anymore than naturalistic explanations? Just by saying "it was created" or "it's not real" you cannot escape the paradox."

- The0bserver

You saying that doesn't disprove anything and merely asks something that I say can't be answered from within. Let me make this more blatant; Super Mario is never ever going to come up with the name Nintendo or the coding that went into his games no matter how hard he, Luigi and Princess Peach think into it. The only deduction they can ever hope to realise is that it's simulated.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

The point is that the universe being a simulation doesn't answer the "existential" questions that you brought up. One cannot simply say "None of this makes sense, therefore it's a simulation". Even if our reality is a simulation there is no guarantee the real one will make sense either.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

1 point

Perhaps it's an endless simulation journey, whatever it is the answer is in the North pole and the edge is at the "south pole" (it's not a pole, it's the edge).

The round earth design is so convenient for them because it makes it highly pointless for us to bother venturing to either pole.

Why the North and not the South? That's more to do with the idea that games are never won and simulations are never 'achieved well' in by trying to break the rules or 'outsmart the game itself'. Instead it is in ALL RELIGIONS (if you combine old with new) that making it 'up' rising and ascending to the 'tree of life' (garden of Eden, Norse Mythology's Yggdrasil, other mythology's 'black rock' etc etc) is how you 'win the game' and is where the 'real paradise' or the 'portal to the higher reality' is.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

Perhaps it's an endless simulation journey

There must at some point be a "real" reality because there must at some point have been a group of entities that occurred naturally to start the simulations if we are indeed in a simulation in the first place. It's the human inability to access the third "layer" of understanding which causes us to jump to these conclusions about intelligent design. All we can know about the third layer is that it is both the basis of our physical reality and it goes far beyond it. Even if our universe is a simulation, it makes absolutely no difference in regards to this, because the simulation is just as physical either way. You said something can't come out of nothing, and I agree, but this cannot be reconciled simply by saying "welp, something can't come from nothing, so some divine entity must have come out of nothing and created it" or "something can't come from nothing, therefore it's an infinite chain of simulations that has no beginning". All of these conclusions are the result of failing to simply acknowledge that the nature of these fundamental questions will never make sense to you and you simply don't know the answers because the human mind can't access the third layer.

The round earth design is so convenient for them because it makes it highly pointless for us to bother venturing to either pole.

Normally I would call you an absolute retard but just as with your views on evolution I will give you a pass because this type of thinking actually makes some sense if you operate under the preconception that the universe is a simulation.

rising and ascending

There is nothing inherently "up" about North, it is a magnetic pole.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

Mingiwuwu (1446) Disputed

1 point

The compass has North as up (on every single map other than the ones the dwarves use that is said to have east as up but that is truly foolish because this edges are aritrarily formed).

On top of this, the North is the only reliable pole from which others are then drawn, you could not ever design a compass that was attracted to the south poles imaginary magnetic pole (there is only north poles magnetism and lack of it).

The North Pole is up not just on compasses but all maps and all versions of the Earth except the flat Earth map where it's explained to be the centre.

All religions, even the vile likes of Scientology that revolved around aliens and round earth being a starting point for the being to then upgrade to, either tell use to ascend up or to seek deep within (centre). North Pole is both depending on what way you view it all.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Disputed

1 point

other than the ones the dwarves use

You aren't trolling me, are you?

How in the blazing hippopotamus balls did you come to these conclusions?

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

https://www.quora.com/Why-were-dwarven-maps-drawn-with-the-direction-East-facing-up-instead-of-North

Mingiwuwu (1446) Disputed

1 point

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Disputed

1 point

So you don't believe in real dwarves?

Was that a jest?

Real dwarves are called midgets and pygmies.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

Mingiwuwu (1446) Disputed

1 point

Real or not real is a question of perspective. To those in LOTR that world is real.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

Somewhere in the multiverse/universe there is probably something very similar to LOTR and dwarves (for all intensive purposes) probably do exist in the universe.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

1 point

So do you admit this is a simulation?

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

I admit that it's a possibility, but I still haven't been convinced. What about you? Do you have any doubt in your mind that it's a simulation?

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

1 point

The sky is simulated but the land may not be.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

I want you to take me through step by step how you came to the conclusion that we live in a simulated/partially simulated reality.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

1 point

It takes looking into what all religions have in common in their storyline and ignoring what they don't. If you start from a position of hating religion, then you don't end up where I have.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

I started from a position of open mindedness and came to the conclusion that religion is retarded. I have been a christian, muslim, buddhist, pagan, satanist and more. I have been through a long journey of outgrowing superstitious thought. The religions have a lot in common for various reasons depending on what it is. All of the major world religions come from older religions and many of them are interconnected. That is why certain concepts are nearly universal, especially the ones based on real things like the chakras (the chakras each correspond to a gland within the body).

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

Mingiwuwu (1446) Clarified

1 point

The chakras can also be interpreted to be the world where the source of energy is innermost (centre of north pole) the north pole has four mini continents (now all covered in ice at least on the outer edges) and chakra was always said to have four forms or parts to it.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

So what is your plan to find earth's crown chakra? What will you do once you get there?

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

Mingiwuwu (1446) Clarified

1 point

Root chakra is the core, real chakra. The Earth's root chakra that is the source of all others has four parts to it. This is not symbolic but really four parts.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

Ah, I should have known that's what you meant by four parts. But is there anything special you need to do there to "win the game" ?

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

1 point

I can only hope that the game is truly meant to be hard to win and not the case of impossible to escape. If you get there and just are shot dead and said to have died of the cold that would be depressing not for me but everyone as even escaping the south pole to the rest of the ice scape would at best find you another human farm like this or whatever species is dominant there.

I hope it's the winnable scenario where you are rewarded for your courage and intelligence to have realised the truth and acted on it despite all their deception.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes

The0bserver (141) Clarified

1 point

If there is a portal or whatever the hell might be there, it is probably heavily guarded. Do you think the Illuminati are against "the entities" or allied with them?

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

Mingiwuwu (1446) Clarified

1 point

They are the entities. This is what your average conspiracist gets wrong.

They don't hate humanity, they just love competition more. The Pharaohs were likely directly in touch with them (no other civilisation had yet built something like the pyramids and were miles behind in advancement).

They like intelligence and courage. These two traits matter most to them. At first it was too easy to control us all, we knew the Earth was flat but had no urge or means to get to the centre of the north pole or to get to the edge at the south.

Then suddenly some honest, genuine scientists made the theory we are not the centre of what we see in the sky. They were bullied, burnt or whatever else. Eventually the beings got wind of this and realised that lie being true would be useful if we ever got to the tech level that would enable us to easily access the north poles centre despite the cold. So mysteriously as soon as we became that advanced, the round earthers were suddenly rendered true by Mr illuminisaac Newton :)

You can say well duh, as we got advanced we discovered more. They are counting on this duh attitude. The few who make it through faith and perseverance are to be rewarded in paradise or so all religions say.

6 years ago Side: FactMachine says no

1 point

Also 'the positive pole' is clearly the one that's good and the 'negative pole' is not good.

6 years ago Side: Prodigee says yes