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Debate Info

11
14
Yes, everyone should be vegan No it's just a personal choice
Debate Score:25
Arguments:24
Total Votes:26
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 Yes, everyone should be vegan (9)
 
 No it's just a personal choice (9)

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arteaga34(130) pic



Is veganism an optimal lifestyle for health and ethical purposes?


Yes, everyone should be vegan

Side Score: 11
VS.

No it's just a personal choice

Side Score: 14
2 points

Veganism is the optimal lifestyle for everyone despite the right's opposition. You can be anorexic and remedy your condition through vegan based methods and medical treatment (injections, if necessary, of bodily necessities).

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As for ethics: I will not invoke morality as a premise in my argument despite me not being tolerant of animal cruelty (which, killing innocent beings for pleasurable food, given the alternatives, is cruel); however, if you are not suicidal, and you do care about life's--which includes you and everything else with DNA--lifesource that is Earth, then you most certainly would go vegan.

If you choose not to go vegan you are genocidal, suicidal, and callous. If prompted, I will list reasons (e.g. GCC, Meat leading to cancer, etc.) as to why the aforementioned adjectives apply to intentional non-vegans (e.g. GCC, cancer, etc.).

(NOTE: I am making this argument based on the assumption that everyone has the resources to support a proper vegan lifestyle)

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan

Optimal? Almost certainly not. There are a couple problems with this.

First of all, what's optimal to one person's health may not be optimal to someone else. For a recovering anorexic, a carb rich diet is vital, while for someone who is overweight, it may be more beneficial for them to eat fewer carbs. If anyone ever tells you that a diet is 'good,' your questions should be: Good for what? Good for who? For some people, a vegan diet may be perfectly healthy. For others, it may be disastrous.

From an ethical standpoint, well, there aren't really absolutes. And even if you are anti the mistreatment of animals, you need to ask yourself if avoiding animal products and products that come from animals is really the best way to deal with that. If that makes you feel like your acting the most ethically, then there isn't really anything wrong with it. It all depends on what you personally find the most important.

Side: No it's just a personal choice
1 point

Very well said. That is all.

Side: No it's just a personal choice
arteaga34(130) Disputed
1 point

I thought it would be pretty obviously seen as optimal for the general population on earth, I mean of course there could always be at least one case where someone simply cannot survive optimally on one certain diet.

Again, I assume most people are at least somewhat emotionally sane and don't agree with the torture and slaughter of beings who possess the same capabilities as their own household pets. Refraining from the consumption of any animal products would certainly point in the right direction towards a cruelty-free animal lifestyle, surely you would agree?

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan
GenericName(3430) Clarified
1 point

Not all meat comes from conditions similar to our industrial agricultural system.

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan
GoneFishing(126) Clarified
1 point

I understand where you're coming from and the way we raise animals for food in sickening. However, a lot of people don't care our or ignorant to the facts. If you were more specific, it would have been better. Again, I agree with your points.

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan
1 point

I thought it would be pretty obviously seen as optimal for the general population on earth

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or not.

Side: No it's just a personal choice

I do support your overall message but some of your justifications are incorrect or just dont see the purpose of them being there. Being a vegetarian could support both a recovering anorexic and an overweight person.

"For a recovering anorexic, a carb rich diet is vital,"

Which can be achieved through "vegan-ism".

"while for someone who is overweight, it may be more beneficial for them to eat fewer carbs"

It's not the reductions in carb's, it a reduction calories. "Vegan-ism" can support this.

Side: No it's just a personal choice
1 point

I was not using those examples in regards to veganism, just trying to explain how diets could differ.

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan

Here is a recent debate on the topic. Here are some of the key points.

Whether you're an omnivore or vegan it's possible to be healthy as long as you eat a balanced diet and plan your meals properly. A vegan diet does take more planning because it tends to have lower amounts of protein, vitamin B12, calcium, iron, and zinc, and has higher amounts of carbs and sugars, but with proper meal planning you can adjust for those differences.

Ethically speaking, veganism is a much better choice IMO. Most meat these days comes from factory farms which have deplorable living conditions. Animals feel pain and emotions just like we do. Their range of emotions may not be as great, but they do feel fear, stress, depression, joy, and love. Just because they aren't able to vocalize it the same way we do doesn't make their emotions any less significant. I believe all the reasons used to explain why killing people is wrong, other than some holy book says so, apply to most animals as well.

Below are just a few examples of the kind of things that happens in factory farms. Warning, they are very graphic. Obviously these don't represent all factory farms, but I don't think it's uncommon. Even without the abuse, the living conditions are terrible across the board.

Factory Farming in 60 Seconds Flat: http://www.youtube.com/v/watch?v=I2dGvZiHUJ0

Shocking cruelty at tyson foods supplier: http://www.youtube.com/v/watch?v=bNY4Fjsdft4

What Are Factory Farmers Hiding? See for Yourself: http://www.youtube.com/v/watch?v=tGIsNXudxg8

What is factory farming? - LAYING HENS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kipdLxzTw4g

Death On A Factory Farm [HBO] (2009): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfiolWwzD94

The biggest problem with meat consumption is the environmental impact. It's completely unsustainable. The United Nations Food and Agricultural Organization said one of the largest contributors to air pollution, water pollution, land degradation, climate change, and loss of biodiversity is raising livestock for food. The report said "the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global." http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM

It takes far more food to produce meat that you get out of it. It takes 8 pounds of food to create 1 pound of beef, and 100 times more water to produce one pound of animal protein than one pound of grain protein. "livestock account for anywhere between 18 and 51 percent of global greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions measured in CO2 equivalent. Even the conservative estimate of 18 percent is a higher share than all transport—cars, trucks, planes, airplanes and mopeds—put together." I highly recommend reading the entire article https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article id=29892

A vegan diet is not for everyone. Food allergies could be a problem for some people and other people just don't have the self-discipline to plan their meals properly. Even if people can't become vegan, they should at least try to reduce the amount of meat they eat, because it's wreaking havoc on the planet.

Here is more info if you're interested http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Side: No it's just a personal choice
arteaga34(130) Clarified
1 point

I would have to say I disagree with you on the health aspect. I think a vegan diet provides much more health benefits than any other diet, especially a meat-based one. The one nutrient that has been found to lack in a vegan diet and must be supplemented is vitamin B12; all others have not been found to be significantly lower in vegans than in a standard diet. Also, the question was whether veganism was optimal for health and ethical purposes, not so much anything to do with disciplinary.

Spot on with the ethics and cited videos, I think you might actually belong on the other side; either way, cheers!

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan
LittleMisfit(1745) Clarified
2 points

I would have to say I disagree with you on the health aspect. I think a vegan diet provides much more health benefits than any other diet.

The only reason I somewhat disagree with you is because both types of diets can actually be equivalent with proper meal planning. For example, I could either eat a burger or eat vegan foods that have the same nutritional values. Either way I get the same result. I think most of the health issues associated with eating meat are due to eating too much of it, and most of the health issues with being vegan are due to lack of the nutrients mentioned in my original post. It's all about proper meal planning and moderation.

I think you might actually belong on the other side

The reason I posted on this side is because I don't think it's the best choice for everyone, primarily because many people are too lazy to plan their meals, so they would suffer from more nutritional deficiencies than they would on an omnivorous diet, and a B12 deficiency is especially dangerous. If everyone had the self-discipline to be vegan I would have definitely posted on the other side of the debate.

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan

No.

Concerning health studies reveal that vegans become more healthy the first few years after starting their diet. That is because during this period they are dedicated to the diet, keeping it meat-free and keeping it healthy. However ''healthy'' is a completely misunderstood term for them. What happens when someone goes vegan is typically that they start filling their entire diet with a lot of vegetables. Vegetables are healthy, lots of nutrients and very low calories. So a person who has been struggling with some overweight will experience weight loss, thus he will become more healthy and generally feel better.

However the body can't function for long without a good source of protein. Furthermore, studies show that a strict diet as the vegan diet is very hard to stick to - so vegans tend to switch to far more unhealthy foods like potatoes served in various forms and the ultimate sinner - sugar! You can eat as much sugar and potato chips as you'd like and still call yourself a vegan.

So after two years of malnutrition, the body starts to scream for energy. The natural cravings are often hard to ignore - so the vegan turns to sugar.

A short-term vegan diet can result in weight loss if someone is struggling. However a long term can and will only result in two things; malnutrition and/or weight gain.

A vegan diet does not satisfy the body with its needs.

Concerning ethical purposes that is not something I care to debate. If someone believes killing an animal is murder they do not share my understandings of how the world works or should be. These standards and principles are built from a completely different mindset that I cannot compare to my own. I do not degrade these values, I simply don't share them.

Side: No it's just a personal choice
arteaga34(130) Disputed
1 point

Harvard University along with most other professional studies have shown that an adult male/female needs about 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of mass that's roughly 70 grams of protein for a 170 pound male! This, I'm sure you know is very easily obtained even on a vegan diet.

Vegans actually get plenty of sugar and great tasting, healthy foods to my knowledge; many of which coming from a wide variety of fruits of course. All the studies I have seen have shown vegans generally having more energy and living, on average, 5-10 years longer than the average meat eater and quite frankly, I have never even heard of a vegan whose diet primarily consists of processed sugar and potato chips (although I agree that it is a plausible situation). I haven't found any scientific studies pertaining to vegan diets being unhealthy and unsustainable or agreeing with anything else that you have said but I would love to see some. If you can, please share with me the study or studies you've found that show what you say to be true.

"However a long term can and will only result in two things; malnutrition and/or weight gain."

This argument can easily be refuted by any one of the numerous accounts of long-term vegans who are incredibly healthy and avidly participate in physical activities daily. I will refrain from naming any but feel free to look some up if you don't believe me.

Side: Yes, everyone should be vegan
1 point

There have not been done many studies on the vegan diet, merely the vegetarian diet which are similar but the difference cannot be exaggerated.

By using basic nutritional advises given from educated nutritionists and doctors, you could easily conclude that the vegan diet is not a healthy diet.

Harvard University along with most other professional studies have shown that an adult male/female needs about 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of mass that's roughly 70 grams of protein for a 170 pound male!

I debated with a guy who weighed slightly less than your example. So since I already made these calculations before, Id hate to make them again for a new example. The guy from whom I based by calculations needed 65 grams of protein a day.

Here is a list of how much you will have to eat of the products you listed in order to get 65 grams of protein into your body.

65 grams of protein is = 1.3 kilograms of peas

65 grams of protein is = 800 grams of beans

65 grams of protein is = 650 grams of lentils

65 grams of protein is = 350 grams of chickpeas or nuts

65 grams of protein is = 450 grams of whole wheat

65 grams of protein is = 350 grams of oats

65 grams of protein is = 2.1 kilograms of brown rice

65 grams of protein is = 3.25 kilograms of barley

The thing is vegetables don't have much protein in it. But you see here that chickpeas and oats for example are easily doable right? Distributing 400 grams throughout the day isn't impossible. However!!! This is the reason why some vegans experience weight gain - when they take these measures in order to consume the protein they need, they consume so much carbohydrates, far more than they can ever manage to burn off by working out.

Here is a list of how many carbohydrates you will consume by filling the 65 grams of protein with the vegetables you listed

800 grams of beans is = 175 grams of carbohydrates

650 grams of lentils is = 130 grams of carbohydrates

350 grams of chickpeas = 185 grams of carbohydrates

450 grams of whole wheat = 310 grams of carbohydrates

350 grams of oats = 220 grams of carbohydrates

and if you must know

1.3 kilograms of peas = 180 grams of carbohydrates

2.1 kilograms of brown rice = 1000 grams of carbohydrates

3.25 kilograms of barley = 900 grams of carbohydrates

So yes, there are tons of ways to get enough protein. That is not at all I am worried about, I am worried about the excessive amount of carbohydrates you are eating trying to get enough protein in your system.

Side: No it's just a personal choice