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Join the Christian Society!
Hi! Im here to spread the AWESOME word of God and Jesus! Tell me about all your issues and stuff... ill TOTALLY be there for you (im trying to make a nice, christian thingy... like an online friend (haha not a creeper tho! I PROMISE!!!!)).
Rules:
Please no athiests ranting on this debate... this debate just isnt for you. I dont want to ban peoplezzz :) But i will accept athiests and people of other religeons asking KIND questions...
Nothing dirty, vulgar, explicit, or mean. This is supposed to be a friendly, christian debate
No sharing personal information please... it will reduce the amount of perv's, creepers, etc.
Invite as many people as you want PLEASE! my church has a mission to convert atleast 5 people to Christianity, spreading the word, and just being nice! Thanks everyone!
Please don't fly the Union Jack as your image, as you present yourself as an ambassador for the United Kingdom. Though I see nothing wrong with this and that fact that you wish to spread the good word of Christianity, you're making us Britons look bad.
I know this is an old debate, but I thought I would just add my input. I would prefer not to join this Christian Society, however ShiroSama97 who posted this debate, I must give credit for their patience and willingness to answer the questions directly.
I wanted to take a moment simply to recognize this (even though I may not agree with it) because it is a simple thing that is lacking in too many of the debates I have with Christians.
Well, this is my first post (hopefully one of thousands that i will post!). So, anyway, just call me Shiro (not my real name btw lol srry)... ill try to help you with anything you're dealing with, if you're wondering why/what Christianity is, or if you're thinking of becoming a Christian! I know this site is FILLED with athiests, so remember the rules in the description. And c'mon, this is a website where no one knows you at all, so talk about anything you want (NO personal info... it is NOT wanted) . Well, im here! :)
You will not find a human in Western society who is not already well aware of what you and your ilk represent. Anti-science and progress, one-minded ideology, and total acceptance love and peace to any whom drink deeply from your poisoned kool-aid "we love everyone, as long as you think, speak, and do exactly as we do".
Fantastic. You represent currently over 80% of the population, you brave pilgrim you.
But being fair-minded, perhaps I'll join your cult, simply answer these simple questions.
1. Is your god powerful enough to create a rock so heavy he himself cannot lift? If not is he not lacking in the "all-powerful" category? And if so, well, he's not all-powerful is he? So is he all powerful of no? And what of this giant rock? I don't want to worship someone if there is even the slightest likelihood there is another more powerful... like he creates the rock he can't move and a flying spaghetti monster comes along and moves the rock or something.
2. As a child I saw an ant hill and was bored, and began killing ant right and left. Then I thought for a second (being a child, today I would not bother with the ant hill) perhaps I should not kill these ants.
If god is a man, and we are ants, what right does he have to send a mortal to hell for eternity? We can do no more to harm him than those ants could do to a child. Is not hell a childish response to disobedience? What is the justification for eternal damnation, or even separation if you are the sort who does not believe in hellfire and whatnot (I know all about all your kind and your divergences).
3. The Bible specifically says forgiveness is required for one to be holy. I accept this but for psychological and not spiritual reasons. Yet in this same book, the most holy character of all, demands a blood sacrifice in more than one occasion. Jesus being the most well-known. So the one we are to aspire to, specifically asks not for vengeance but forgiveness, yet he himself not only requires a few years in jail, or a fine, he actually wants a human tortured and killed, only then are we forgiven.
Plus we're supposed to pretend to drink the dead guy's blood (Jesus).
My final question is, name one society of man, it can even be a third world country, where the leaders are this barbaric. I would not want to join a religion, where it could not be shown the god is not at least equally magnanimous to the worst of human civilization.
Answer these three, and I'll see you in church in 7 days.
Haha thanks... here are the answers to your questions:
1. God/Jesus can create anything he wishes. He is GOD, but he is also all-powerful. He can lift anything he creates, for he is God. There is nothing more powerful then him. he is the strongest force of all, including Jesus Christ (well the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are all basically one). So, god could create a rock of any size and be able to lift it.
2. God does not wish to send people to Hell. he gives you a choice- you can become a good Christian (or Catholic, but i really dont know much about the Catholics other than it is similar to Christianity), or you can do what you want and be punished later. there is a verse in the Bible (i will try to find it for you) but it states that if you disobey God, a greater evil will punish you, not God. You could live your whole life being the worst person in the world, and on your deathbed, if you truely do want to believe and regret what you did and ask for forgiveness, you will go to Heaven. And people often think that being a good person makes you go to Heaven automatically. NOT TRUE. you could give to the poor, be nice to people, and other good things, but if you dont spread the word of Christ and "grow" in the Christian faith, you arent really a christian are you? This might be a little off topic, but i hope it answers your question.
3. Jesus died for our sins, he did not die out of vengeance. He never wanted to b e tortured or killed, but he knew what his mission was (he knew since birth.) and he knew that pain was temporary compared that we could just ask for forgiveness (And truely mean it) in order to go to heaven, no matter how late. He knew he would come back. he wasnt cruel to anyone... in his last words, he asked God to spare the very people that beaet him, put a crown of thorns on his head, and nailed him to a cross for forgiveness, for they did not know what was going on. Jesus didnt really make people drink his blood... he said. Jesus broke the bread on the Last Supper and said "take this bread, for this is my body that has been broken for you". then Jesus took the wine and poured a glass for each of his diciples, and said "take this wine, for this is my blood i have spilled for you.". we drink it in church to honor him (we drink the wine and eat some of the bread).
I think my third answer answers your last question... jesus was not this blood-thirsty barabarian.
Thanks for asking questions! :) i hope this answers them (if it doesnt, just simplify what i missed)
1. If he can lift the rock, he cannot create a rock he cannot lift. The answer is "all-powerful" is self-contradicting.
2. This is one of my primary concerns about your religion. The idea that one can be a good person, but simply not worship this invisible being and be damned, regardless of your definition of damnation. While one can be an evil person, then at the last second kiss this inisible person's ass for a bit, and their fate is better than the one who spent their time being charitable.
True or no, I would never bow to a god so fickle and needy of attention. He would be more worthy of praise if he were less concerned over whom one worships, and more concerned over how one lives their life.
3. The point is, why shold anyone have to die for forgiveness? God makes the rules, and indeed specifically says to "turn the other cheek".
The entire premise of one dying for another's sins is backwards and primitive.
I never said Jesus was a blood thirsty barbarian, that was not my wording nor the intent. It was a description of the idea of sacrifice. And I still see no civilization that would forgive one individual based on the tortrue and murder of another.
2.not true! god sees us all as equals, from a criminal to a priest.
I think you got a little confused... those two things are very similar. he looks in both.
3. he died for our sins so we can ask for forgiveness when we commit these sins. Satan also plays a part in our sins. God doesnt want us to be happy without actually working for it and earning it. That is why he sent his son to die for us.
Jesus was born without sin or temptation. he forgave the same people who tortured him.
It is amusing that you would "never bow to a god so fickle and needy of attention." and yet you are here. Is it to get attention? What a fickle thing. We would all respect you more, if we never read a single thing you wrote and yet the need to be seen still exist.
well, from what i see, he is just asking reasonable questions and trying to learn a little about Christianity. God/Jesus are NOT needy and do NOT need attention. He and his diciples spent their ENTIRE life preaching the word of god, taking care of people who were poor, sad, angry or just having a bad day. They were the most selfless people on the face of the earth... i dont see where people get that he was needy and self-centered...
God only asks for a blood sacrifice because the punishment for sin is death.
God's power is infinite, don't try to reduce that to an obscure riddle of creating something too heavy for him to lift. Our mere human brains can't begin to fathom the endless possibilities of his might.
Aren't cults typically determined to go with societal norms? Then they sneak in the religious aspect of it. Christianity is upfront with their views and stance on all parts of life.
Your relationship to ants is FAR different from God and our relationship with him. You did not create the ants, nor do you love them. They have not trespassed against you. The only thing I see with that comparison is your childhood expierence torturing insects.
The acceptance of Communion "drinking a dead guy's blood" (He is risen, not dead) is the symbolic demonstration of accepting Jesus as your savior. The blood must be spilt to atone for sins. The wage of sin is death. Jesus was God in flesh (Immanuel) he wasn't just some guy.
God only asks for a blood sacrifice because the punishment for sin is death.
Wow, so coveting is a sin for instance. This being decided if I due to natural instinct, see a hot girl and want her, I deserve to die. Way to make your god sound like a total dick.
God's power is infinite, don't try to reduce that to an obscure riddle of creating something too heavy for him to lift. Our mere human brains can't begin to fathom the endless possibilities of his might.
It's a simple riddle, and easy to fathom, and there is nothing in it which should not be easily answered. If you cannot answer it, you are not in a position to tell other's what they should or should not believe.
Aren't cults typically determined to go with societal norms? Then they sneak in the religious aspect of it. Christianity is upfront with their views and stance on all parts of life.
You need to look up what a cult is. The only difference between Christianity and a "cult" is there happens to be a shitload of Christians.
Your relationship to ants is FAR different from God and our relationship with him. You did not create the ants, nor do you love them. They have not trespassed against you. The only thing I see with that comparison is your childhood expierence torturing insects
Every child squishes ants at some point. And you missed the point completely. The point is god is so powerful according to your definition, that what a human does should not bother him. Why worship one so sensitive that us puny humans are capable of hurting his feelings so that he decides of his will to create a such thing as damnation.
The acceptance of Communion "drinking a dead guy's blood" (He is risen, not dead) is the symbolic demonstration of accepting Jesus as your savior. The blood must be spilt to atone for sins. The wage of sin is death. Jesus was God in flesh (Immanuel) he wasn't just some guy.
Your preaching is not helping your cause. I know what Christians say, and I don't believe them, or you. You sound ridiculous to me, and any who have bothered thinking at all about the subject. Regardless what it symbolizes, you think torture and death of an innocent is necessary for forgiveness, and you pretend to drink this being's blood. It is silly unless one is indoctrinated and as blindly zealous as you obviously are.
First of all I answered your riddle, God's power is infinite. If you can fathom his power you are much more diluted then those you condemn.
According to the American Heritage Dictionary a Cult:
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
This is not a demonstration of Christianity. By the way not all children enjoy torturing living creatures except in the cases of serial killers and mentally disturbed individuals. My assessment of your language and conduct lead me to believe you belong to the latter of the two classifications.
God only asks for a blood sacrifice because the punishment for sin is death.
God created those rules, remember? So god wants blood purely out of whims.
God's power is infinite, don't try to reduce that to an obscure riddle of creating something too heavy for him to lift. Our mere human brains can't begin to fathom the endless possibilities of his might.
It is a simple logical question. If you cannot answer it, then you only reveal its logical truth.
Aren't cults typically determined to go with societal norms? Then they sneak in the religious aspect of it. Christianity is upfront with their views and stance on all parts of life.
Cults typically operate where a leader imposes repressive rules on his followers but ignores those rules himself, and sex is almost always one of the items repressed because this is a way to control your followers.
Your relationship to ants is FAR different from God and our relationship with him. You did not create the ants, nor do you love them. They have not trespassed against you. The only thing I see with that comparison is your childhood expierence torturing insects.
Who says we don't love ants?
The acceptance of Communion "drinking a dead guy's blood" (He is risen, not dead) is the symbolic demonstration of accepting Jesus as your savior. The blood must be spilt to atone for sins. The wage of sin is death. Jesus was God in flesh (Immanuel) he wasn't just some guy.
It isn't symbolic. It is literally the drinking of blood. Look up transubstantiation. Your religion revels in human sacrifice and the drinking of blood, and eating of flesh.
"God created those rules, remember? So god wants blood purely out of whims."
Wow, "out of whims" that is some serious conjecture. You are not even on the map with that one. Adam and Eve were warned before they ate of "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" that they would die. They sinned against God, which the punishment is death and eternal separation.
"It is a simple logical question. If you cannot answer it, then you only reveal its logical truth."
It is not a logical question. You are asking a question based on natural sciences imposed to a supernatural being.
"Who says we don't love ants?"
I take it then you are an ant lover.
"It isn't symbolic. It is literally the drinking of blood. Look up transubstantiation. Your religion revels in human sacrifice and the drinking of blood, and eating of flesh."
That is a Catholic 'thing'. I am a Protestant (Christian Apologetic) it is merely symbolic to us. We do not revel in "human sacrifice" that is paganism. We do however revel in the sacrifice of Jesus (God in human form). There is the joy of his resurrection, which he conquered sin and death for our atonement.
Wow, "out of whims" that is some serious conjecture. You are not even on the map with that one. Adam and Eve were warned before they ate of "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" that they would die. They sinned against God, which the punishment is death and eternal separation.
Who created Adam and Eve? God. Who wrote the rules of sin? God. Who wrote the consequences for those sins? God. Therefore God punished Adam and Eve entirely within his own whims. God could have made it a sin to eat Tunafish Sandwiches instead of eating apples. The rules were all under his jurisdiction.
It is not a logical question. You are asking a question based on natural sciences imposed to a supernatural being.
It is a purely logical question. Can god create something that he cannot lift? This is asking if omnipotence allows the creation of things which are greater than the omnipotent. Yes implies that things may exist which are greater than omnipotence, meaning that omnipotence isn't all-powerful. No means that omnipotence is limited in what it can do, therefore not all-powerful.
Choose an answer. Quit evading.
That is a Catholic 'thing'. I am a Protestant (Christian Apologetic) it is merely symbolic to us.
So you never heard of "Sacramental union" or "Consubstantiation" or "Real Presense?" These are the Protestant equivalent of Transubstantiation.
Not that it matters to me personally, I just see it as a bunch of different sects arguing over semantics and some being so disgusted with the theological implications, they just play pretend.
We do not revel in "human sacrifice" that is paganism.
Christ on the cross is a human sacrifice. Indeed, the Christian symbol is that sacrifice's crucifix.
We do however revel in the sacrifice of Jesus (God in human form).
Again, human sacrifice. I find it very macabre. Why don't you guys offer blood to it, or chant? You're practically there by carrying symbols of a man tortured to death.
If there is a god, and if Jesus was god, then I should think that the symbol he would find most offensive would be the crucifix. You'd think that Jesus' disciples would carry a symbol that is more symbolic of personal-poverty and charity (because that was a big part of his teachings, self-denial).
There is the joy of his resurrection, which he conquered sin and death for our atonement.
What about the joy of serving humanity, like he preached? The joy of selflessness, of self-denial. You realise that in order to follow Christ you must live in poverty, right? The wealthy cannot make it to heaven, and by ancient Roman Standards we all live in opulent luxury, even the poor among us.
We cannot accept this, nor will we. CreateDebate is, obviously, a debating society. It is not a propaganda centre. If you wish to pontificate, do so, but you will be reported to the relevant authorities if you ban anybody who contradicts, defies or dissents against your utterances. These things are the purpose of this site and we will not allow you to preach uninhibited of unmolested.
in the rules, i state that i dont really want people just ragging on it for the heck of it (or to be rude). It is a debate. Im not going to ban people who just say "thats stupid!". i will ask them WHY, and if they just be mean just because, then i dont need people fighting and argueing on this debate. Who are you to report me, hm? i will preach as long as i can... anyone on this site should also spread the word of christianity if they really believe :) who cares if i get reported? im willing to take a stand. Jesus was beaten, cut, and mocked, and he continued to preach even when he was nailed to the cross. Me on a little website like this and getting reported is nothing compared to what Jesus did.
people have the choice to go on this site, do they not? Report me then... im just trying to do some good :) sorry i accidently hit the ban thingy a few times (i thought my computer was being slow and i clicked it)... how do i un-ban people?:)
I see you banned me from your other debate. What? Scared? If you ban anyone, it just shows that you're scared of their perspective and what they have to say. You already banned EnigmaticMan. Gonna ban me too? Scared child?
