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14
21
Yes, I voted for Obamacare No, I voted against Obamacare
Debate Score:35
Arguments:31
Total Votes:39
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 Yes, I voted for Obamacare (9)
 
 No, I voted against Obamacare (16)

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Jonathan Gruber calls the American voters STUPID...are you one of them?

Are you one of the Americans who now realizes they were duped into believing Obamacare is good for our nation?  Well, you better reconsider your vote because the architect of the charade has come clean and shared his opinion on the American Voter...

 

From The Wall Street Journal:

 http://online.wsj.com/articles/jonathan-grubers-stupid-budget-tricks-1416009107

As a rule, Americans don’t like to be called “stupid,” as Jonathan Gruber is discovering. Whatever his academic contempt for voters, the ObamaCare architect and Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist deserves the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his candor about the corruption of the federal budget process.

In his now-infamous talk at the University of Pennsylvania last year, Professor Gruber argued that the Affordable Care Act “would not have passed” had Democrats been honest about the income-redistribution policies embedded in its insurance regulations. But the more instructive moment is his admission that “this bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies.”

Mr. Gruber means the Congressional Budget Office, the institution responsible for putting “scores” or official price tags on legislation. He’s right that to pass ObamaCare Democrats perpetrated the rawest, most cynical abuse of the CBO since its creation in 1974.

In another clip from Mr. Gruber’s seemingly infinite video library, he discusses how he and Democrats wrote the law to game the CBO’s fiscal conventions and achieve goals that would otherwise be “politically impossible.” In still another, he explains that these ruses are “a sad statement about budget politics in the U.S., but there you have it.”

Yes you do. Such admissions aren’t revelations, since the truth has long been obvious to anyone curious enough to look. We and other critics wrote about ObamaCare’s budget gimmicks during the debate, and Rep. Paul Ryan exposed them at the 2010 “health summit.” President Obama changed the subject.

 

 

Yes, I voted for Obamacare

Side Score: 14
VS.

No, I voted against Obamacare

Side Score: 21
3 points

George W. Bush had a chance to do something about healthcare and he chose to sit on his hands. When romney passed "obamacare" in his state the republicans were ok with it. We know that Obamacare will be a success because of Romneycare being a success in his state. And don't give me that state level vs. national level bullshit. It's a national issue that was pilling onto the national debt people filing for bankruptcy because they have no healthcare.

Democrat plan: Obamacare

Republican plan: Bush sitting on his hands

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare
loveislove(4) Disputed
1 point

I loved your last comment: "It's a national issue that was pilling onto the national debt people filing for bankruptcy because they have no health care."

So, lets just pill that onto the Government Debt because that doesn't matter... With what money do they (the government) have to pay for the 'hurt' American people? None. They just draw it from the tax payers.

IT STILL GOES BACK TO THE DEBT OF THE GOVERNMENT BUT IT IS TAKING FROM THE CITIZENS

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
14giraffes(87) Disputed
1 point

What-a-wha!? No, no! Let me clarify: Before Obama, people would walk into an ER and get treatment without health insurance, and then go file bankruptcy because of their medical bills. This is the national debt problem that Obamacare has been targeting. Today corporations have to offer their employees real health insurance, and people without enough money to cover themselves get some government assistance. Therefore, it is not adding anything to the national debt, but rather it is paid for by tax payers and corporations. That's the difference, and it solves the problem. Saying that it goes to the national debt AND is paid for by citizens is a contradiction.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare

I haven't voted for Obama or Obamacare, but some of my family members did. I don't know much about it, but affordable healthcare sounds pretty nice to me.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare
FromWithin(8242) Disputed
1 point

You just said it all. "You don't know much about it". You are the low end voters who elect these Liberal Democrats all for sake of free subsidies. Democrats love people like yourself. They want to keep you stupid and addicted to government social programs. Get some shame.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
3 points

You are the low end voters who elect these Liberal Democrats all for sake of free subsidies.

I'm not even eligible to vote so I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think this is relevant to me at all.

Democrats love people like yourself.

They can't even get my vote, they probably don't care that I exist.

They want to keep you stupid and addicted to government social programs.

I'm not stupid. I also don't need government programs. So.....

Get some shame.

If you find something I could be ashamed about let me know. Until then I guess your post was pointless.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare

Wait - is this guy suggesting that taxing an insurance company rather than taxing individuals is more favored by the public (and thus more politically tennable)?

How dare he.

For those that are interested, the full video shows quite a good discussion of where economics meets politics in health care.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare

Unless there are people here that were in Congress at the time, none of us actually voted for Obamacare.

However, health care was a large part of Obama's campaign and he won in 2008 by more than 7% of the popular vote.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare
2 points

I did not vote for Obama care nor do I currently support it or Obama himself.

That said, while I do not consider myself stupid, I do think that I, and most Americans, are too ignorant on most issues to guarantee a vote for their own interests.

Most of us are not nearly as knowledgeable on economic issues as we would like to believe. Or natural resource and conservation issues, or global events, drug policy issues, etc.

This is one reason why voting should at least be considered potentially dangerous and antithetical to our nation's best interests. Voting is mob rule, and I don't know how so many people can be comfortable with that.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare

No, I am not for obamacare, nor did I sign up for it. One thing Mr Gruber must realize, though, is that many of the bills that are passed in Congress are not even fully understood by the congressman who are passing them ( thanks to earmarks). how much less, then, does the American public know about them? The American public gets what they are fed through the media. And then, a great deal of it is passed by word of mouth. The American public does not have surveillance on our politicians, so how else are they supposed to know everything there is to know? you could say that they should pick better media sources. So where do they go? Writers from any media source will have some sort of bias, for the most part. I have even seen biased opinions from very notable sources, such as the WSJ. Also, most sites on the web are either far right or far left.Food for thought.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
1 point

I am really shocked at the nerve of this person to say they helped trick the American people to vote for something that really shouldn't have been voted for. I am disturbed that he can so openly mock us all. No I didn't vote for it and I hope it is quickly put down. All I can say is that Obama surrounded himself with many people who wanted to ride his coat tails and now because of Obama's arrogance, they are all coming out either against him or just making fun of him. See ya Obama!

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare

To be honest, I'm kinda neutral on the whole obamacare thing. Its mainly because I don't really care about arguing about stuff like that. I see good things about it and I see bad things about it.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
1 point

Only one news source, that's One News Source reported on Obamacare's true contents and true effects. We know their name. While they were only sometimes fair and not often balanced they were nearly always accurately reporting the nature of Obamacare.

Mr. Gruber was correct in his assessment of a very large percentage of Americans. His statement remains true that Americans would have overwhelmingly rejected Obamacare if the majority of us were aware of its true effects. Calling us stupid, and then spending months guiding really stupid lawmakers in how to trick us, is in itself contradictory. Mr. Gruber is typical of too many academics in his "I'm smarter than you" attitude about us.

In the end, those still clinging to the lies about Obamacare will be judged to be the stupid ones.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
Jace(5187) Disputed
1 point

Only one news source, that's One News Source reported on Obamacare's true contents and true effects. We know their name. While they were only sometimes fair and not often balanced they were nearly always accurately reporting the nature of Obamacare.

Pretty sure there was more than one, and even more certain that you just revealed your slant.

Calling us stupid, and then spending months guiding really stupid lawmakers in how to trick us, is in itself contradictory. Mr. Gruber is typical of too many academics in his "I'm smarter than you" attitude about us.

That is in no way contradictory, and maneuvering a group of people to maneuver yet another group of people does require an higher than average intelligence.

In the end, those still clinging to the lies about Obamacare will be judged to be the stupid ones.

Unlikely, given the ongoing division today over the intelligence/stupidity of previously contentious presidential/government programs throughout our nation's history. But if handing yourself a carrot makes you feel better about yourself, then by all means keep complimenting your purported intelligence.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
daver(1771) Disputed
1 point

Dude you are quite welcome to make your arguments against mine. You are not welcome to insult or ridicule me. Please try to be more polite.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare
daver(1771) Disputed
1 point

Dude you are quite welcome to make your arguments against mine. You are not welcome to insult or ridicule me. Please try to be more polite.

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare
HighNoon_USA(3) Clarified
1 point

Please use " Quotation Marks" so we know what you're trying to say?

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare

Obama is the biggest liar our nation has ever seen & that is saying something. The arrogance of Liberal Democrats is mind blowing. They truly believe they are the enlightened ones who should have control of our lives & be able to force their ideology down our throats. All for your own good!

The problem being their ideology is hideous and has never worked throughout history.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare

The disaster of Obamacare hasn't fully surfaced. That will be a couple of years from now.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare

If I could I would of.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
1 point

The "Stupid Americans" Gruber and Vladimir Lenin both said that the political left, liberals, progressives are the Stupid Americans and Leftist Individuals! Gruber again was talking about Democrats because they are the one's who as usual bought into the so called "Freebee". Lie!!!

Can't blame this on the Constitutional Conservatives.

But you can blame it on the Marxist Progressive Liberal Democrats!

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

Untrue. He was saying that the bill had to score a certain way with the CBO so that it kept costs and taxes in check - meant to bring on Republicans (Olympia Snowe did end up voting for it in the Finance Committee), and provide cover for conservative Dems.

ref ref

Side: Yes, I voted for Obamacare

It's amazing any Democrats admitted voting for Obama after Obamcare. It's kind of like most wars. The Democrats always support & vote for the wars but when it goes bad they all claim to have been against the war. They lie & say only the GOP starts wars. There is a common theme with today's socialist Democrats. They lie more than any politicians have ever lied in our history. It is like an art form to them. It is easier for them to lie when they have a Liberal media that has a blind eye to all their lies. When the GOP get caught in a lie such as George Bush Senior read my lips, THEY CONSTANTLY ATTACK HIM FOR IT!

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare
1 point

Thank you for admitting Bush has lied. That's very big of you.

Side: No, I voted against Obamacare