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Justice driven by Rage is really Rage disguised as Justice
The recent case of Amanda Todd presents a very intresting case: the former classmates who had tormented Amanda now find themselves on the recieving end of cyber-bullying from millions of people. The life of the man who took and posted the infamous pictures is at risk as Anonymous itself is trying to hunt him down.
But does it help?
It does make logical sense to carry this justice out. The bullies now find themselves they bullied, and by thousands of people at that. If the tormentor is tramples to death, it serves as a very clear warning for others not to try the same.
Bullying should not be a major crime just because some girl put her boobs online and killed herself over it. My friend passed out at a party and was raped, she hasn't killed herself and hasn't taken legal action against every single person she suspects of raping her.
She's not a regular human. If what she's true, she's an incredibly strong one. But most of us can't handle that kind of pressure, and most of us would certainly be pursuing legal action.
And I'm not asking it be made a crime at all. I'm asking is it right if the bullies were bullied back?
She is a regular human, she is actually a normal human, the media gives everyone the illusion that most people are as weak as Amanda Todd. She did pursue in legal action, after she knew who it was, she didn't sew everyone at the party.
It is right that bullies be bullied back, however, being "bullied" by the state with fines, threats and jail time is MUCH more serious than people teasing her over her boobs.
It's no "illusion" that people are seriously traumatized and want to seek recompense if they're raped. You made it sound like she didn't pursue any legal action at all after the party and that she suffered no trauma, which is remarkable.
And I don't believe anti-bullying should be made a law, because it just makes kids soft until real life comes along and hits them in the face like a two-by-four. But if the kids harass her over all the different schools she transferred to and went so far as to ambush and beat the shit out of her, then they deserve the full wrath of the internet.
It's no "illusion" that people are seriously traumatized and want to seek recompense if they're raped. You made it sound like she didn't pursue any legal action at all after the party and that she suffered no trauma, which is remarkable.
It is an illusion. I never said she didn't suffer trauma or seek re compensation. I said she didn't sue everyone she suspected of it and then hang herself.
And I don't believe anti-bullying should be made a law, because it just makes kids soft until real life comes along and hits them in the face like a two-by-four. But if the kids harass her over all the different schools she transferred to and went so far as to ambush and beat the shit out of her, then they deserve the full wrath of the Internet.
Cool story, find their tumblr account and write some mean comments. You put your tits on the Internet you can expect 2 things:
You seriously contradicted yourself in the first two sentences.
I don't have tits, but you are right on that. However, you fail to mention the part where I'm hounded across several schools before being ambushed Brooklyn-style and left in a ditch. That seems very unfair to me. And very unfair to Amanda too, especially since it's something you did years ago.
You seriously contradicted yourself in the first two sentences.
It is an illusion. I never said she didn't suffer trauma or seek re compensation. I said she didn't sue everyone she suspected of it and then hang herself.
Explain
I don't have tits, but you are right on that. However, you fail to mention the part where I'm hounded across several schools before being ambushed Brooklyn-style and left in a ditch. That seems very unfair to me. And very unfair to Amanda too, especially since it's something you did years ago.
Then prosecute the violent ones (if you can prove who they are) accordingly, however, those who bullied her do not deserve legal action.
I said: "It's no 'illusion' that people are seriously traumatized and want to seek recompense if they're raped."
You maintained that it was. We can debate on how many things are wrong with that, but not right now. Right after you said "It is an illusion" you said "I never said she didn't suffer trauma or seek re compensation". Which, although the statement is true, contradicts what you said right before the last period.
And the bullies that followed her across schools are actually guilty of a crime known as "criminal harrassment." According to the article I posted below, her tormentors could be sentenced for up to 2 years.
I said: "It's no 'illusion' that people are seriously traumatized and want to seek recompense if they're raped."
You maintained that it was. We can debate on how many things are wrong with that, but not right now. Right after you said "It is an illusion" you said "I never said she didn't suffer trauma or seek re compensation". Which, although the statement is true, contradicts what you said right before the last period.
You must have mis-interpreted me, I didn't mean its an illusion people don't get traumatized, I meant its an illusion that most people are weak emotionally and get extremely traumatized to the point of taking legal action against everyone and kill themselves.
I never recall saying that all people were, and indeed most people aren't. Some people do, and they could be considered weak, but that's not the point. What the point is: her tormentors need to be punished, and under Canadian law they could be imprisoned.
That's absurd. Just because it is non-violent does not mean it isn't a crime. Where did you get this notion?
Harassment is a crime. When you go out of your way to make someone miserable for the rest of their lives, following them across schools and expressing wishes that they die, that's not legal, and rightfully so. It's not as bad as killing or raping them, but the notion that non-violence isn't a crime is absurd.
That's absurd. Just because it is non-violent does not mean it isn't a crime. Where did you get this notion?
I don't kill you, but I make some nasty comments about you and you over react and kill yourself. Your fault, not my fault.
Harassment is a crime.
According to law, not according to reason.
When you go out of your way to make someone miserable for the rest of their lives, following them across schools and expressing wishes that they die, that's not legal, and rightfully so.
No, its not rightfully so. They follow you? Following a stalking complaint. They harass you online, block them. Don't throw them in prison because some teen girl put her boobs online and couldn't deal with the repercussions.
Making some nasty comments isn't the extent of this. Making nasty comments is a one time thing. What these kids did was band up by the thousands and constantly remind this girl every day about how much of a piece of meat they thought she was.
Of course she blocked them, and it really isn't feasible to file a stalking complaint against 500+ people. Being emotionally weak is one thing, but this will break any human being.
She killed herself when she was fifteen. The harassing, stalking, and degradation went on for 3 years. That's insane. Not only that, but the extent of the hatred towards her was proven when her tormentors had a party celebrating her death.
There's a reason this stuff is illegal. That's like saying showing videos of Nazi torture techniques to five year old children should be allowed because it isn't "physically harming them". One viewing would leave them permanently scarred, while this girl's plight went on for 3 years.
You don't seem to grasp the extent of her plight. I say she was remarkable for hanging on this long. I don't think she should have killed herself, because life can contain much harder things, but I understand why. Harassment is a crime, the various MPs didn't put that there because it looked nice, but because three years of that will damage a person more severely than almost any physical violence.
Making some nasty comments isn't the extent of this. Making nasty comments is a one time thing. What these kids did was band up by the thousands and constantly remind this girl every day about how much of a piece of meat they thought she was.
They banded up by thousands online, and want to know a magic trick to make all of it stop?
Step 1. Unplug your computer
Step 2. Change your phone number
Congrats, you ended it.
She killed herself when she was fifteen. The harassing, stalking, and degradation went on for 3 years. That's insane. Not only that, but the extent of the hatred towards her was proven when her tormentors had a party celebrating her death.
People are allowed to hate or love whomever they choose. Take President Reagan for example, loads of people hated him, millions of people bashed him and said many hateful things about him and when he died there were likely parties, should those people be prosecuted? No.
There's a reason this stuff is illegal. That's like saying showing videos of Nazi torture techniques to five year old children should be allowed because it isn't "physically harming them". One viewing would leave them permanently scarred, while this girl's plight went on for 3 years.
It likely wouldn't leave them sacred and that shouldn't be illegal. I don't think you should but if you want show your child an R rated movie, torture or porn, you should be allowed to.
You don't seem to grasp the extent of her plight. I say she was remarkable for hanging on this long. I don't think she should have killed herself, because life can contain much harder things, but I understand why. Harassment is a crime, the various MPs didn't put that there because it looked nice, but because three years of that will damage a person more severely than almost any physical violence.
I do grasp the concept of her plight, however, unlike you I am thinking about this with logic rather than emotion and I am un-willing to restrict the freedom of speech and expression of others simply because I don't approve of it.
Okay, so you didn't watch her video. Let me explained what happened.
She flashed her tits online. A guy got ahold of that picture, and used it to destroy her school life, make her lose all her friends and respect, and forced her to change schools. After she did that, he learned the name of the school she was going to, and then had people at the school see what Amanda did when she was in Grade 7. So your magic trick? Doesn't work.
So this repeated for every school she went to.
You are expecting a fifteen year old girl to have the same resilience as a man who got elected into presidential office. That is a severe lack of logic on your part.
Saying that children wouldn't be scarred from watching videos of torture techniques, then trying to counter with the fallacious and non-relevant argument of "Well they shouldn't have been watching that" is another severe lack of logic that goes against all modern Psychology, and indeed all Psychology in general.
I do not approve of the restriction of free speech. My username is Free Will. But when you are deliberately and maliciously tormenting a girl because of something she did 3 years ago, for the duration of 3 years, then that is as bad as physical violence, and a lot worse in most cases.
Logic? How's this for logic: she was blackmailed at age 12 to strip for an as-of-now unknown pedophile. When she refused, she lost every single ounce of respect and all her friends at her school, only to be expected. She moved schools to escape. But the man followed her over the internet by targeting the school instead of her directly, and lost all her friends and respect too. She had to move schools again. She met a boy and, desperate for any sort of friendship, she hooked up with him. Foolishly, but she had gone through several years of isolation and hate, so it can be explained. The boy betrayed her, the girlfriend and her friends ambushed her and left her to die in a ditch. When she drank bleach to try to kill herself, her schoolmates began prescribing what types of bleach she should've consumed and expressed regret that she wasn't dead. Now that she is dead, two weeks after her call for help, they are celebrating her death and deliberately writing malicious comments on places that are supposed to be memorial sites for her.
And you are typing about how this is her fault and that the kids who bullied her should get away with it and going even farther to say that an entire law is fallacious because you say so.
That is the logic of this crapsack world. But it can be changed. Future incidents can be discouraged if not outright averted. And you standing in the way of punishing these kids while hundreds die is outright dispicable.
Here's some logic: Kids are dying because of this. And you are trying to keep that going.
It's common sense... it shouldn't be allowed, it isn't free "speech". It's harassment, stalking, etc... and if it's on the STREET, people call the cops! How come when it's a girl in an enclosed building it's all of a sudden not harassment? I don't have a problem with people not being allowed to harass others, and I don't get why this "free speech"-ers are so damn hardcore about their free speech that what they believe to be free speech (actually torture, um I think that should be covered under violence laws too) that they think the people practicing their "free speech" is more important and makes more sense than protecting the people they're harassing. Saying this is just free speech makes as much sense as saying beating people up is free speech of art on their body, tbh. Both are brutal.
When parents verbally abuse their children, people care about that, because it's a parent and the child is expected to be loved and cared for by them. Why shouldn't children and adults have the right to go to a place to learn or work without being harassed? Why does it make more sense to protect the harassers THEN? Being psychologically tortured by your peers hurts too.
God, pretty soon people will be trying to defend parent-child psychological abuse too.
FreeWill, the argument that a teenager SHOULD have more resilience doesn't make sense anyway. It makes as much sense as saying a man SHOULD be tougher than a woman. And if they're not? What do you have to say? "well, they SHOULD be." Well, they're not. So uh, don't make em cry. don't hurt em. It isn't as if someone chooses to develop panic attack disorder, anxiety problems, depression, etc, from experiences. Even if you somehow do think people shouldnt be affected by her experiences (have to be retarded), that doesn't matter. If someone is affected, fucking stop. Not that they cared. They egged her on to suicide and try again. Said she should've drinken another bottle of bleach.
I think some of these silly fucks need to go through something themselves. They need their lives ruined, purely psychological torture. some of them still wouldn't try to sue their attacker though, just so they don't have to admit that the belief that they should be allowed to harass and affect their life like that is CRAZY.
They made her life a living hell and that's that... what more is there to say? How does it not sound like a living hell to you? even if someone was emotionally weak, no matter what you're doing, if they tried to drink a bottle of bleach, and you know it, and you continue, you are just as bad as someone who does something reasonably pain causing! They fucking ENCOURAGED her suicide! Told her she should do better next time!
You are very ignorant as to what actually happened to the girl. She was blackmailed by some guy, and because she turned it down, he sent her nude pictures to everyone, and they bullied her further in school. She developed panic attacks, anxiety disorders, etc... then when she moved, he did it AGAIN, and she lost everyone AGAIN. she was alone and harassed, and lived a hell of a life.
She wasn't crazy, or sensitive, for taking her life. It wasn't some kind of minor experience. I'd say you have to actually EXPERIENCE/LIVE THROUGH IT to understand just what sort of hell it is, but I haven't and I still understand that even what I imagine isnt as bad as the real thing. Maybe you need a dose? If it was your daughter, you wouldn't think it was a minor thing. Oh wow, now being raped is a minor thing to you? Not everyone who gets continuously psychologically tortured kills themselves, sure, but that doesn't mean it's MINOR.
This isn't to say that I believe in hard core jail, or trampling justice... I just don't like it when people say it's no big deal and act like the victim was just a pansy. Even if someone IS and an experience is minor, yknow how sensitive they are, and you did it anyway. If seeing a picture of a bull causes crazy panic attacks and severe depression for days, and you know that, well doggon it, you are a torturer to do it to them! Even if it was just a picture of something! People shouldn't have to immediately buff up (it doesn't work like that... trust me) or be blamed when they get hurt. Where's her sympathy?
I don't know which this is, but I think it's the side of just leave the guy alone. This debate is spreading misinformation because Anonymous has put a disclaimer saying that the information is NOT to be used to force vigilante justice onto the person, and it's more so that the system knows who did it, but they'd prefer not to be in contact with the police, because, well... they're Anonymous ffs. People should know better than to actually try to do things to him. It's just going to bother the police with more work.