CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
I guess it’s only people like Amarel who can see absolutely no wrongdoing even Republicans find his actions reprehensible........
In a strongly worded statement last night, Liz Cheney, a representative from Wyoming, the No. 3 Republican in the House, and the daughter of the former vice-president Dick Cheney, said that Trump had “summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack” during the Capitol riot on January 6.
“Everything that followed was his doing,” she said. “None of this would have happened without the president. I will vote to impeach the president.”
After setting the ball rolling by House GOP members, Cheney was joined last night by the Washington representative Jaime Herrera Beutler, the New York representative John Katko, the Illinois representative Adam Kinzinger, and representative Fred Upton, of Michigan, the Republicans who all said they would vote for impeachment.
I believe in everything you said .... except one thing .... "Trump is a cunt". No, many of my best friends were cunts and I loved them :-(past tense, regretfully). Calling Trump one is an insult to REAL cunts everywhere! ;-)
Liz Cheney has never been one of my favorites, but, I applaud her today. She ... and everyone who voted for Trumps' impeachment put their lives, and their families, on the line. This is not the America I grew up in, this is not the America I want to know. I hope it can be turned around. This asshole, in 5 years, has turned the world around just as Hitler did. What do I suggest? The Second Amendment .... up close and personal.
I never understood this rabid hatred between the parties in the US ,over here nothing like this goes on if we don’t like the other guys party we don’t like it and of course there are disagreements but it seems Americans never stop knocking lumps out of each other
They think it’s the “commies” who are a worldwide threat little realising a bigger threat is actually them when they vote raging lunatics like Trump into power
Do you have fake news channels over there that scream that all the rest are fake news?? I know you don't have a gun lobby with any strength. Our Constitution is a bit too lenient for our own good. We need to make some changes and "clarifications" in it, or we are finished. The "commies" over here are far less dangerous today than our conservative party. The GOP should change their name to the POL .... the Party of Lunatics!
News channels here more or less call it like it is ( mostly) it’s because we have so many parties and independents
Our society is gun free even the ordinary cop cannot carry only the special forces can
Shootings here are rare knife crime zero I live in one of the most peaceful societies in the world thanfully
Also I’m tax free as a citizen on account of my occupation I’m entitled to free healthcare , education , state pension (along with private) free travel on retirement along with reduced fuel bills yet many Americans call me a despicable Commie
'Taint funny. We could have the same ... if we didn't have to support so many millionaires! Oh, and our current occupier of our White House costs U.S. over a million$ per golf game ... well, TRIP, anyway. I suppose when he's out somebody will calculate what he cost us, we can then figure out how many hospital bills could have been paid with his golf money .. oh, well.
By the way, I had about ten major bosses in my working career, (I outlasted all of them :-), the best was one of your countrymen named Clements. Hell of a nice guy. He's back there now, got out while the getting was good, as they say. ;-)
Thankfully he’s gone now , it’s disgraceful that money is wasted that could be used to help those who need medical treatment
10 bosses that’s the same more or less as me in my former occupation until I went solo as a full time Artist 15 years ago the best move I ever made , I work when I feel like and answer to no one
I hope you’re enjoying your retirement you’re one of the good guys
Sure, but so is Dick Cheney. And unlike Trump, Dick Cheney is far from stupid. I've never heard much from his daughter (although I'm aware she's involved in politics), but anybody who proudly wears the name Cheney into a political career is almost certainly going to be a scumbag.
Are you watching the feed?
Most are calling to impeach and I have to say I agree with them. It comes down to accountability. Even if there was no intent to create that outcome specifically, he was still irrefutably trying to dump more fuel on a fire he has been stoking for months, and which is based on nothing except his own lies. He didn't want to concede power, he'd exhausted his legal avenues, so he probably just figured he'd incite his supporters and see what happened. It's exactly the kind of thoughtless, gung ho decision he's been making for the last four years.
The three or four Republicans I've seen rise in support for him have all been ideological scumbags who want to turn his impeachment hearing into an attack on what they call the "radical left" (i.e. their terminology for centre right laissez-faire capitalists) with the exception of one, who did make a genuinely convincing argument not to impeach.
I’m watching it online the US is turning into what people like Orwell seen coming a nightmarish country that’s getting worse .
I watched Noam Chomsky say Trump is the worst criminal in human history he makes pretty valid points for his arguments only he’s a gentleman and old school I’m sure he would have said “he’s also a cunt “
I’m watching it online the US is turning into what people like Orwell seen coming a nightmarish country that’s getting worse .
I watched Noam Chomsky say Trump is the worst criminal in human history he makes pretty valid points for his arguments only he’s a gentleman and old school I’m sure he would have said “he’s also a cunt “
It's exactly that mate, and Noam Chomsky is a great person to read/watch if you want some enlightenment about how it got there. He's done fantastic research into how the mid to late 20th century press worked in the United States.
I've exchanged with Chomsky personally though on a couple of occasions and he's so dead wrong about 9/11 it's frightening. I've read through him lambasting journalists for fallacies and false assumptions he makes himself with equal fervor. Ultimately, I think the problem is that America has become a political indoctrination centre at the absolute deepest level. It isn't just lies we are talking about. It's an architecture of lies. It's lies built upon lies, built on a foundation of lies laid before that.
Chomsky in real life is someone who really disappointed me. Just to provide a little example of why, then he has written a great deal about the symbiotic relationship shared between media and government in the modern world. Media needs to maintain good relationships with those in government in order to obtain privileged information and/or exclusive scoops. Simultaneously, government needs to have good media relations so they can spin their version of events first and most prominently.
But Chomsky wilfully ignores this when crafting his explanation for why, after several chaotic hours reporting about bombs, secondary devices, explosions and demolitions, the American media suddenly stopped its independent reporting and all began repeating the same mantra. No bombs. No secondary devices. No explosions. No demolitions.
Clearly, there was only one place the American media was getting its information from about what was going on, and that was sources within the American government.
And if those sources in the American government were in turn being briefed by someone senior to them, for example, the Vice President Dick Cheney, then it is not a wide leap to conclude that the entire infrastructure of the American media may have been exploited by its greatest weakness: it's reliance upon elected officials for political and/or emergency information. If everyone is ultimately getting their information from the same person, for example the Vice President Dick Cheney, then you can see how the entire American media machine could have gotten it drastically wrong.
Christ, look at the Republican numbers though. 195 to 10 to dismiss.
IMO traditional Conservatives should just start their own party. Trump has damaged the reputation of the entire party and stuffed it full of extremists.
Have you read Manufacturing Consent? One of the media filters Herman and Chomsky identify is something they call "flak". That is, when the media publishes something which deviates from the status quo, they are bombarded with complaints to bring them back in line. That is how the American centre has ended up so far to the right. The radical element of the American right (and this was decades before Trump, back when they had the paranoia of the Cold War to take advantage of) set up an infrastructure of lobbyists to kick up a stink every time the media took any position more left wing than theirs. This is why today you have actual elected representatives who refer to liberal democrats as "the radical left". And bear in mind that Chomsky has spent much of his career ridiculing liberal democrats for being mouthpieces for the right. That's why people with Chomsky's views are pushed out onto the fringe in America: because Americans have been taught to believe that the capitalist centre is the "radical left", and so therefore Chomsky must be some kind of Stalinist Bolshevik nutbag.
Again sounds like an interesting read will check it out
A huge part of the blame is religious lunacy in the US ,a friend of mine had a great collection of old American comics one hilarious story showed a guy with long hair in the early 1960’s smoking a joint and two Christians leaving a church asking a citizen “ what’s that man doing “ the reply is “ he’s smoking pot and most likely a communist trying to destroy America”
They have been spoon fed this nonsense from infancy slick
politicians play them like the ignorant loons they are as all their anti science denialism is grounded in religious ignorance and they wear it with pride , it’s scary
Anyone who disagrees is obviously a raging Stalinist who wants to destroy the US for reasons never explained
Ultimately, I think the problem is that America has become a political indoctrination centre at the absolute deepest level. It isn't just lies we are talking about. It's an architecture of lies. It's lies built
I always say it’s like arguing with the religious , logic never comes into it the more you hit them with facts the more deeply they become entrenched
Fascinating insights into Chomsky I’ve a read a lot by him in the last year and his arguments in a lot of cases are compelling
I like Hitchens a lot it used to be fabulous to see him in a rage
I listened on CNN and a commentator said Trump lacks so much awareness he doesn’t realise the damage he has done himself and he’s more interested in saving his companies
Wonder how he’s going to take this ......Amarel no doubt will still say he did nothing wrong
Fascinating insights into Chomsky I’ve a read a lot by him in the last year and his arguments in a lot of cases are compelling
Yeah, please don't be coloured by my opinion of him about that one particular issue. In general he's a great writer and researcher. I'm glad you've given his stuff a shot. Another good one to read is Ed Herman. The last of his I read was The Politics of Genocide. Fantastic book.
In fact, if you are interested in what has happened to the United States then read my favourite book, The Sane Society by Erich Fromm. That's like a scholarly prediction of what was going to happen.
I like Hitchens a lot it used to be fabulous to see him in a rage
Never tried Hitchens but I've read a lot of Dawkins.
I listened on CNN and a commentator said Trump lacks so much awareness he doesn’t realise the damage he has done himself and he’s more interested in saving his companies
He's a pathological narcissist mate. Complete psychopath.
Yeah, please don't be coloured by my opinion of him about that one particular issue. In general he's a great writer and researcher. I'm glad you've given his stuff a shot.
I came across an article by him last year and dug some more and I must say I found him pretty impressive and his arguments are backed by sound reasoning
And I get your point on your one particular issue as in it’s just fine that we cannot always agree on certain issues but it shouldn’t affect other issues we share common ground on
Another good one to read is Ed Herman. The last of his I read was The Politics of Genocide. Fantastic book.
In fact, if you are interested in what has happened to the United States then read my favourite book, The Sane Society by Erich Fromm. That's like a scholarly prediction of what was going to happen.
Both sound like good reads and thank you
Never tried Hitchens but I've read a lot of Dawkins.
There’s a ton of stuff on You Tube he’s hilarious when he gets annoyed he just calls people “idiots and does it with rage , I’ve never come across a sharper more intelligent individual
He's a pathological narcissist mate. Complete psychopath.
Bet he writes a whining self pitying bio now and probably end his days selling wigs on some bum fuck tv channel in the Bible Belt
I came across an article by him last year and dug some more and I must say I found him pretty impressive and his arguments are backed by sound reasoning
Yup, absolutely true. Not his arguments on 9/11 mind. But the stuff in his books is absolutely spot on.
And I get your point on your one particular issue as in it’s just fine that we cannot always agree on certain issues but it shouldn’t affect other issues we share common ground on
Yeah, unlike most of the other right wingers here (I mean people I would define as right wing), you and I do actually agree on some issues. Guns, being the first one which springs to mind.
Both sound like good reads and thank you
This stuff is a real rabbit hole mate. Unfortunately, politics stops a lot of academic work from truly hitting the mainstream.
There’s a ton of stuff on You Tube he’s hilarious when he gets annoyed he just calls people “idiots and does it with rage , I’ve never come across a sharper more intelligent individual
Yeah, it's strange that I've missed his stuff to be honest.
In fairness to you your position on 9/11 you always back with links and data , in the past I was just doing what was the norm here trolling
I used to debate here years ago and really liked it but it went downhill and most people just sparked of each other , I came here mostly to piss of and wind others up.
Funny thing I’m gone nearly a year but used to check in now and again and every time I could see where you posted a piece with valid links and others just savaged you each time and several of your posts had no personal attacks or malice and I thought this is bullshit
I also came back to put manners on that cow Dana last year she got herself a little gang on DI and tried to have me banned but mods agreed I was the only one actually debating and gave her a life ban for consistently lying and refusing to debate
Any time I asked her a question she would say “ I have freedom of speech” while refusing to answer questions
Actually just one thing my previous positions when on here were mostly trolling .You and I used to go at each other Hell for leather some of the exchanges were hilarious
Heres a shock for you if you want to see the real me it’s on DI where a former user from here weareaccountable calls me a low life Commie , I used to be a leading member of the Socialist workers party here ....I believe in free healthcare , education , a woman’s right to bodily autonomy, a fair wage for all workers , a good welfare system and a gun free society just to start
BTW I don’t think Nazis either were Socialists the idea is absurd , that was all done because the site had turned into a hell hole so all done just to wind up and take the piss
Have a go on You Tube at Hitchens you won’t regret it another very interesting one is a great Show called The Atheist experience there’s a guy on it called Matt Delahunty who shreds Christian with pure logic
I came back this time to give it one more go and my first day (forgetting us ) Amarel as usual made several sneering remarks, followed by (believe it or not ) gender issues Jace, followed by Dana so they all got a taste of their own medicine
There’s a ton of stuff on You Tube he’s hilarious when he gets annoyed he just calls people “idiots and does it with rage , I’ve never come across a sharper more intelligent individual
Someone who used to have a similar attitude (i.e. zero tolerance for stupid people) that I have a huge amount of respect for is the late American comedian, George Carlin. I don't tend to watch much comedy these days, but I remember seeing a couple of his HBO shows just before he died and being truly impressed by the way he'd ridicule religion and Americans (despite being American himself). He was right up there with Bill Hicks.
How is impeachment going to remove the damage this man has done. Impeachment won’t put him in prison. Impeachment won’t stop him from receiving the million of dollars for his retirement.
Impeachment won’t remove the fact that there is about half of the country that believes in this man and believe in a war against democrats. Which is wack because democrat is a political idea. One that isn’t even that different from republican.
Impeachment won’t remove the division deeply rooted in the American population.
Impeachment is a joke. America is the world shit stain.
the house impeaching the president is equivalent to the president being charged with a crime. if the senate affirms the impeachment then that is equivalent to the president being convicted of the crime. if convicted of impeachable crimes, the president will be removed from office and may be disqualified from ever holding political office again (at the discretion of the senate in what equates to sentencing). this would prevent trump from running in 2024 (or ever again). i doubt whether the senate will convict and suspect the house knows this, so in this particular case ur correct. however, impeachment is not necessarily "a joke" in the usa.
ur right that the usa's a shit stain tho. no contest there.
Trump has certainly made it look like joke... And trump doesn’t seem the slightest concerned or embarrassed. His followers either. Republicans too. Republicans just keep dropping their pants and presenting their anus for Trump.
The Impeachment of Trump seemed like a lot of energy for too little.
And impeachment in a bipartisan system just seems like the outcome will always end in a deadlock... The only case where maybe a full impeachment can go through is if we have the Senate and House of the opposite party of the president... I haven’t checked if that has ever happened in the US but if it has it is almost like being fired already.
public politics is almost exclusively posturing for the sake of the common person. the immediate case in question is hardly exceptional in that respect.
the usa has had a divided government (one party controlling the executive branch and the other controlling both branches of the legislative branch) 21 times, or for roughly 1/4 of its history. most recently in 2015-2017 under obama and prior to that in 2007-2009 under g.w. bush. it's not an uncommon or outdated occurrence.
of the four impeachments in usa history one was under a fully unified government, another was under a fully divided government, and two (both for trump) were under a partially divided government. most fully and partially divided governments do not lead to impeachment charges, and no president has been convicted by the senate.
And impeachment in a bipartisan system just seems like the outcome will always end in a deadlock...
Absolutely. What is frightening is that nobody seems to want to address the failure of the American political system, and make no mistake: what you described is failure. When people are voting tactically, or out of loyalty, rather than out of conscience or reason then something is seriously wrong. American politics is undoubtedly powerful, but it has entirely deviated from its intended purpose. There's no real representation for the people, and I'm sure in years to come researchers will discover that's why someone like Trump managed to become so popular. He convinced a lot of people that he was that representation just like Hitler did all those years previously. He told people they were being screwed and he was as angry about it as they were.
the house impeaching the president is equivalent to the president being charged with a crime. if the senate affirms the impeachment then that is equivalent to the president being convicted of the crime. if convicted of impeachable crimes, the president will be removed from office and may be disqualified from ever holding political office again (at the discretion of the senate in what equates to sentencing). this would prevent trump from running in 2024 (or ever again).
I believe they are going to try him after the transition. They also need to hold a separate vote about whether to bar him from holding office again.
I really hope they get him but I wouldn't hold my breath. They need about 20 Republicans to defect. He still has a lot of support from the Republican Party, which is frightening given that at this point he's barely even making an effort to disguise that he wants to be the next Hitler.