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Leviticus 20:9 "'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death."
If God had his way, we would be mass murdering children. I mean, who hasn't slipped a little cuss word of rebellion in their youthful years? And if your family had decided to murder one of your siblings for swearing, who wouldn't swear at their parents as they grab a knife and murder him/her in God's name, to then have you murdered next?
Is there any excuse for this verse, because certainly no omnibenevolent being should even think about this law.
First of all I haven't slipped a swear at all in my youth years. In fact I haven't swore at all in my life. So I haven't slipped a swear word at my parents and I wouldn't swear since Christian don't really swear, and the Bible says you shouldn't swear.
Some of those laws that are written down were men and not God. Also God wouldn't tell you to kill your parents. Back then all you had to do is worship God first, obey the Ten Commandments, and love your neighbor as yourself.
Dude, it's a pretty broad (and wrong) generalization to say that Christians don't swear, because they do. Someone's religion doesn't determine whether they swear or not, they'll do it if they want to. You obviously don't get out much...
Well in my town where I live in its mostly Christian and a lot of Christian don't swear in my town. There are people who go to church and then the next day they start swearing and I don't count those people swearing. You should see my school every other word you hear on the bus and at school is the f word nonstop. Myself and other Christian don't swear and we are the only people who don't swear in the entire school
It is possible to go your whole life without swearing. I haven't said a swear ever. Well, knowingly that is. I have said words that I never knew where swears but after I know that it is a swear I never say that word ever again.
Swearing is a natural reflex intentionally used to lower pain if you stubbed your toe. Anyway, what is so scary about swear words? So what if someone says a scary word, it's not like they should deserve to die or something.
First of all I haven't slipped a swear at all in my youth years. In fact I haven't swore at all in my life. So I haven't slipped a swear word at my parents and I wouldn't swear since Christian don't really swear, and the Bible says you shouldn't swear.
Whether it be lies, or whether you are some kind of cyborg, you'd best remember that a majority of children- through almost decades of growing up- must of at least slipped a widdle biddy cuss word at their parents, at least once.
As I've said before, if God had his way, all of these innocent little children would've been stabbed or stoned. No child deserves that pain.
A cuss for a child's life should not be invented from an omnibenevolent mind.
Some of those laws that are written down were men and not God.
XDDDDD!!!!! WTF????
It was all written by man.
Also God wouldn't tell you to kill your parents.
Since when were the death of their parents involved?
It was about murdering the children.
And yes, God had just said that you can kill your children for a petty vocalization.
Whether it be lies, or whether you are some kind of cyborg, you'd best remember that a majority of children- through almost decades of growing up- must of at least slipped a widdle biddy cuss word at their parents, at least once.
And I am saying that it doesn't matter if he doesn't swear. What does matter is that a majority of other people swear, meaning that they must die in the eyes of the LORD.
What does matter is that a majority of other people swear, meaning that they must die in the eyes of the LORD.
But his point is, that they are usually not Christians. Of course sometimes they do, because everyone makes mistakes. Its just that they realize it is wrong and ask for forgiveness.
Where does any biblical text support the view that men wrote some verses and God others without obvious inconsistency? Nowhere but in the mind of the Christian living in the modern era and reaping the benefits of vastly superior amounts of knowledge, such as science and a conception of human rights, which in turn gave rise to a more civilized morality. This Christian has created a new Bible.
Don't you know how many kids slip a cuss word to their parents? Well, all off them deserve to die (in God's omnibenevolent mind,) so that equals to more than mass murder- it equals to almost genocide.
It's weird how people say God is infinitely good.
...Is killing children for swearing an infinitely good thing to do?
Look at the structure of the sentence does it make sense if the word curse is replaced with cuss or swear. It is obviously talking about real curses like voodoo and witchcraft. Now maybe the death penalty for use of black magic is a little extreme, but honestly how many kids accidently curse their parents in the original sense of the word. If the verse does in fact refer to curse words then it is grammatically incorrect.
Other versions of this verse in the bible says to "dishonor their parents," or "disrespect," none of which means to do some kind off black magic ritual. It is a swear word- a cuss word which shows disrespect.
Other versions of this verse in the bible says to "dishonor their parents," or "disrespect," none of which means to do some kind off black magic ritual.
But those other versions are derived from the original, and if the word "curse" was translated differently, the original version would be correct. I actually don't believe that though, and im pretty sure it doesnt mean disrespect.
I actually don't believe that though, and im pretty sure it doesnt mean disrespect.
You should start believing, because the bible was clearly not written by a perfect being. If you see the words of the bible as infinitely moral and infinitely awesome and written by an infinite being, then you must have a problem- or an exceedingly low standard.
If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
For every one that curses his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
American King James Version
For every one that curses his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be on him.
American Standard Version
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Douay-Rheims Bible
He that curseth his father, or mother, dying let him die: he hath cursed his father, and mother, let his blood be upon him.
Darby Bible Translation
Whatever man revileth his father and his mother shall certainly be put to death: he hath reviled his father and his mother; his blood is upon him.
English Revised Version
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Webster's Bible Translation
For every one that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
World English Bible
"'For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Young's Literal Translation
For any man who revileth his father and his mother is certainly put to death; his father and his mother he hath reviled: his blood is on him.
(Revileth means to criticize in an abusive manner.)
You said you didn't believe that Leviticus 20:9 was asking to murder children for disrespecting their parents. I already cleared that up by showing all translated versions of the verse.
Your reply was a red herring. I said that i dont believe curse means black magic, and you replied that i should believe that the bible isn't written by a perfect being! What does that have to do with anything! If thats not irrelevant, i dont even know what irrelevant means.
But when I said that you should start believing or "acknowledging" the fact that the bible unjustly said that you must murder a child for swearing, you decided to change its meaning for some reason, saying that I need to believe-
that is irrelevant.
And anyway, do you think that a perfect being would write how we should murder children for swearing?
Down voting isnt going to get us anywhere. Its actually kinda annoying.
But when I said that you should start believing or "acknowledging" the fact that the bible unjustly said that you must murder a child for swearing, you decided to change its meaning for some reason, saying that I need to believe-
How did i change ts meaning? And I actually didn't say you need to believe. You did, and then i said I already have. And you changed the subject by saying it is unjust to murder a child for swearing. I was saying whether cursing was black magic or not, then you randomly decided to bring all of this up. YOUR argument is irrelevant.
How did i change ts meaning? And I actually didn't say you need to believe. You did, and then i said I already have. And you changed the subject by saying it is unjust to murder a child for swearing. I was saying whether cursing was black magic or not, then you randomly decided to bring all of this up. YOUR argument is irrelevant.
Calm down.
This is what I saw had happened:
I say that God murders children for swearing.
You deny that, saying that the verse was referring to black magic instead of swearing. You clearly say that you "don't believe" that the bible is referring to swearing.
I say "well you better believe it" after proving to you that the bible is referring to swearing.
And then you say that you believe in God. wtf?
Here is a quote of your argument- ignoring the proof I have provided, and twisting my words to say that you believe in God, when that is totally irrelevant.
What I said: You should start believing
Your reply: I already have. Just not in the same thing you do.
Ok. Well thank you, its just that i saw you did it to some other people so I just assumed it was you.
Calm down.
I'm not mad at you. When i was using the caps and stuff i was just trying to emphasize those words, although it does appear as though im trying show anger. You're actually a very good debater and bring up some pretty good points.
This is what I saw had happened:
I say that God murders children for swearing.
Yes.
You deny that, saying that the verse was referring to black magic instead of swearing. You clearly say that you "don't believe" that the bible is referring to swearing.
Sorry, that was a typo. When talking about the black magic i said "I actually don't believe that though" (referring to black magic). Then i made a mistake and said i don't believe its talking about swearing when i meant to say i did.
I say "well you better believe it" after proving to you that the bible is referring to swearing.
And then you say that you believe in God.
Yes, because of the mistake with the swearing stuff, I thought you were purposely being ambiguous with "believe". You said "You should start believing" speaking about swearing and God sending kids to hell for it, but i thought you just brought up out of the blue that i should believe God is false.
Hello. I understand that this isn't my debate and don't mean to be rude, but I'd like to add that the argument that curses in this verse are intended literally rather than as profanity really devolves into a distinction without a difference. The Torah commands the Israelites to honor their father and mother. If I place a dark curse upon my parents, I dishonor them, and if I speak rudely to them, I dishonor them. What is the penalty for this behavior? The verse under dispute makes this clear: death. I am to die by stoning under the Mosaic law, plain and simple. It is also interesting to note that witchcraft alone carries this same penalty, making any metaphorical interpretation of this verse even more implausible.
In my opinion, what we're really seeing on the part of the Bible's defenders here is anachronistic eisegesis. They are reading modern sensibilities back into an ancient text written by a people whose worldview held no place for children's rights/humanism; there was no dignity, no abuse, no inherent equality. Rather, in this world there was only the law and what it did/didn't dictate. Close comparison, research and knowledge of ancient languages bear these facts out.
If I wrote a book detailing the laws and customs of Western North America, would it still be valid after five-thousand years have passed? This was a rulebook for five-thousand years past, when women who were raped died of starvation as widows at best and were cooked to death in giant frying pans at worst. The bible is a book, not a person who is able to change with the times.
God does not change, but human culture does. No matter how perfect or immortal I am, all the rules I write for one culture cannot be applied to another. Even so, God shows his wisdom by commanding us not to murdernor steal, to live thy neighbor, which are truly timeless rules. You have to remember that this rule is found along side others like "do not shave" or "do not boil a goat in its mother's milk." Odd and unecessary today, but of great relevence back then.
That's just what I said- his morals shouldn't of changed from, "I should kill children," to "Killing children is a bad thing now,"- His morals should of just stayed the same.
So murdering a child for swearing is an immoral law even though God is a timeless unchangeable being- with infinite (but doubtful,) omnibenevolence.
You have to remember that this rule is found along side others like "do not shave"
Wow, very necessary.
So for some reason, having a beard, with long hair is supposed to help in some way?- and make you go to hell if you don't?
Same goes with murdering a child for swearing- why the need to kill??
or "do not boil a goat in its mother's milk."
What if you boil it in some other goat's milk...
Odd and unecessary today, but of great relevence back then.
Yes, but the scenario was that most of the time- you were stoned, brutally stoned- and you'd go straight to hell if you disobeyed those laws. And also, most didn't really help you in any way.
There is no excuse for anything that is in the Bible, because it was written for a reason. The reason for these words and many others, is clearly not to be taken literally. They are to make a point, period. Honor your father and mother.
If you're not smart enough to understand the Bible, don't read it.
The reason why people misunderstand the Bible is clearly not the fault of it, but only the fault of those reading it. The Catholic Church intentional didn't want stupid people reading it for this reason. They only wanted the educated to read it. It wasn't until the 1500's that the Bible was widely translated into a text that more people could read. Do to the fact that people like you don't understand what's written, it probably should never have been translated so that every one could read its' words.
It's funny that a Christian is saying that, and it's funny how the bible says it was written by God. And it is also funny how the Bible is the basis of Christianity.
And if you mean that the bible was written from the influence of God, it still won't change anything.
Words don't kill, people do.
And? Does this somehow change anything?
It is God's law after all- he made it, and people obeyed it.
Who would want to disobey God?
The reason why people misunderstand the Bible is clearly not the fault of it, but only the fault of those reading it. The Catholic Church intentional didn't want stupid people reading it for this reason. They only wanted the educated to read it. It wasn't until the 1500's that the Bible was widely translated into a text that more people could read. Do to the fact that people like you don't understand what's written, it probably should never have been translated so that every one could read its' words.
Well, God, the inventor of writing, with skills beyond bounds, should of considered this. He should of also considered the health of children who were stoned to death by their "misunderstanding" parents.
I am not a christian, I am a Muslim and proud. It's not all Gods that are immoral. but bad mouthing your parents is way far off. And in the old testament you get killed for touching Sinai I think.
Leviticus 20:13, If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, they have done what is detestable. They shall be put to death, their blood is on their heads.
