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Debate Info

34
32
True. Wait..., what? No!
Debate Score:66
Arguments:62
Total Votes:71
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 True. (24)
 
 Wait..., what? No! (24)

Debate Creator

jolie(9806) pic



Liberalism is'nt about being inclusive. It is about dictating which groups to in

For exampe, the Muslim religion is not compatible with feminism.
Transgender is not compatible with feminism.
Etc.

True.

Side Score: 34
VS.

Wait..., what? No!

Side Score: 32
2 points

Maybe they should exclude feminist ;)

Side: True.
excon(16788) Disputed
1 point

Hello j:

Do ALL right wingers march in lock step with one another??? The last time that happened, they were GOOSE STEPPING.

excon

Side: Wait..., what? No!
1 point

You do realize that Nazis were liberals, right? ;)

Side: Wait..., what? No!
2 points

Liberalism supports killing any viable late term baby for any reason!

WHAT MORE COULD BE SAID ABOUT NON INCLUSIVENESS?

I mean COME ON!!!!!!

They hypocritical inhuman fools are the most radical liars and phonies this world has ever seen.

Side: True.
JimboR(87) Disputed
1 point

You conflate the right to life with right to life at someone else's expense.

That's the distinction when it comes to abortion. We all, and I include unborn children, have a right to life. None of us have the right to life at the expense of somebody else's and I don't see any reason to afford special rights to foetuses.

Side: Wait..., what? No!
FromWithin(8240) Disputed
2 points

ROFLOL, you just said "We all, and I include unborn children, have a right to life."

And then you say..... "I don't see any reason to afford special right's to unborn children.?

Scientists say a human life begins at conception, so tell me in all your selfish mindless inhumanity, when does your so called "foetuses" become that unborn child?

The Democrat Party says NEVER! Do you vote for these inhuman Liberal politicians who keep no restriction abortions legal?

If you do, you are supporting the deaths of innocent human lives for mere convienence. No one else is being hurt!

WE ALREADY ALLOW LIFE OF MOTHER AND OTHER EXTREME CASE ABORTIONS! NO ONE IS TRYING TO STOP THOSE!

Side: True.
1 point

Half true.

Just start the sentence with "Ism" and you're more accurate. Living by any ideology or dogma is about defining everything in set parameters and then endorsing or rejecting depending on that parameter. Liberalism can indeed do this. So can conservatism. So can any "ism".

Side: True.
2 points

Hello j:

Right wingers HAVE litmus tests.. Liberals don't.. That's what liberal means, after all.. Our doors are OPEN.. You can have 57 genders, or be pro life. Liberals don't CARE.. Come join us. We're right, and you KNOW we are.

excon

Side: Wait..., what? No!
1 point

Do liberals accept bigots, racists and conservatives? ;)

Side: Wait..., what? No!
excon(16788) Disputed
2 points

Hello j:

When delving into areas such as these, you need to be a little more precise.. I dunno what you mean by "accept".. I have family who're bigots and right wingers. Do I accept them? Yes. Do we argue? Yes. Do I love them? Yes.. Can they join a liberal political party? Yes. Would they? No.. Would the liberal party GRILL them about their politics BEFORE allowing them to join? No..

What else do you wanna know?

excon

Side: True.
2 points

When you talk about liberalism here you actually mean identity politics (progressivism would also fit). Some of the most effective criticism of identity politics is coming from the center-left. In addition, identity politics is actually antithetical to several tenets of classical liberalism. Classical liberalism is the basis of liberal democracies (such as the U.S.) and includes:

1) Individualism and judging people as individuals rather than exemplars of their group (racial or otherwise)

2) Civil liberties and civil rights (including freedom of speech and expression)

3) Equal treatment of all people regardless of sex, race, religion etc.

4) The rule of law and private property rights

5) Equality of opportunity as opposed to equality of outcome

Side: Wait..., what? No!
1 point

Maybe. But it is a lot more succinct to say, "Liberalism" as opposed to "Identity Politics." Plus, it gets the Liberals riled up ;)

Side: Wait..., what? No!
excon(16788) Disputed
2 points

Hello again, j:

I MIGHT agree IF I knew what identity politics is.. But, I don't.

Look.. I'm a LIBERAL.. I'm VERY liberal. Seeking freedom for EVERYBODY is at the heart of my liberalism.. I spose if I thought EVERYBODY was free, I'd make fun of identity politics too.. But, everybody ISN'T free. I dunno HOW I could explain it further WITHOUT mentioning the particular people who AREN'T free..

For example, women don't have dominion over their own bodies.. I COULDN'T mention that disparity WITHOUT mentioning women.. Is THAT identity politics?

Voter suppression is a happening thing these days.. I couldn't talk about that WITHOUT mentioning the people who are most effected by it. Is THAT identity politics?

If so, count me in.

excon

Side: True.
Jace(5220) Clarified
1 point

Well put. By chance, do any names jump to your mind for center-left critics of identity politics?

Side: True.
2 points

Sargon of Akkad

https://www.youtube.com/user/SargonofAkkad100

Thunderf00t

https://www.youtube.com/user/Thunderf00t

Armored Skeptic

https://www.youtube.com/user/armouredskeptic

Amazing Atheist/TJ Kirk

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAmazingAtheist

ChrisRayGun

https://www.youtube.com/user/MindfreakCM

Dave Rubin

https://www.youtube.com/user/RubinReport

Are a few off the top of my head, if you'd like a criticism of a specific tenet of identity politics I'd be happy to give it.

Side: Wait..., what? No!
2 points

Liberalism is about equality for all and when any group is being denied respect because they are a minority, Liberalism will champion them. Naturally, Liberalism whill condemn any group which espouses persecution of a minority because of their race, creed, sexual identity, and so forth.

Side: Wait..., what? No!
1 point

So..., Liberals condemn the Muslim religion? ;)

Side: Wait..., what? No!
excon(16788) Disputed
3 points

Hello again, j:

Liberals DON'T condemn Islam.. I have Muslim neighbors.. They are NOT my enemy..

Lemme see.. You HATE my Muslim neighbor, but you LOVE the Nazi down the road.. You're kinda fucked up..

excon

Side: True.
Eloy(190) Disputed
1 point

Only people can be condemned for their actions regardless of their parents' or their own religion.

Side: True.
1 point

Hmmmm. I don't REMEMBER any feminists objecting to transgenderism so it isn't likely it's a big deal to most of them. There are always a few, in any large group, that have differing opinions. Liberalism IS about being inclusive while harboring SOME difference of opinion. Your avatar is known for being and/or acting about as "feminist" as one could be. I don't like the term "feminist" when used to push for nothing but equality. Jolie's movies (many) characterize her as superior to men. That's what I would call a "feminist".

I wouldn't object, at all, to having her "superior" over me. ;-)

Side: Wait..., what? No!
excon(16788) Disputed
2 points

Hello again, j:

Precise speech IS important... Do liberals and conservatives BELIEVE the same thing? No. Does EVERY liberal believe what EVERY other liberal believes? No.

Why don't you post about the ISSUE instead of WHO supports it??

excon

Side: True.
AlofRI(3285) Clarified
2 points

A lot of words ... no idea where they came from. If Nazis were liberals, how is it Fascism is a "right wing" political movement?? I know of NO liberals who like Nazis ... as was shown a couple of weeks ago, and we DEFINATELY don't like Fascism, don't like nationalism, don't like white supremacy, don't like communism! Democratic Socialism, as in European governments, a combination of two imperfect idioms,.... better, again, not perfect.

WWW.create debate.com is an opinion of "someone" ... maybe Putin? Who knows? I know what I believe, and it is NOT "dictating" groups. It's being inclusive with "groups". I'm a proud liberal.

Side: True.
Jace(5220) Clarified
1 point

Search "TERF" if you want to find the feminists who exclude transgenderism. Although I doubt they're a majority they are nevertheless a substantial minority, and some of them hold positions of influence in liberal circles (e.g. and esp. academia).

Side: True.