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In general, liberals tend to be intolerant of: Guns, people who own guns, The NRA, people who doesn't live an "Eco-friendly" lifestyle, capitalism, lower taxes, the military, patriotism, and of course, anyone who didn't vote for Obama.
In general, liberals tend to be intolerant of: Guns, people who own guns, The NRA, people who doesn't live an "Eco-friendly" lifestyle, capitalism, lower taxes, the military, patriotism, and of course, anyone who didn't vote for Obama.
There is a difference between intolerance and criticism.
So if I criticize someone for being gay, or having an abortion, or whatever else conservatives are stereotypically seen as being intolerant of, it's only criticism and not bigotry or intolerance?
It really isn't your business, and you deserve any response you receive.
or whatever else conservatives are stereotypically seen as being intolerant of
I cannot comment since you have not enumerated them.
it's only criticism and not bigotry or intolerance?
Criticising someone for being gay is bigotry, the same as criticising someone for being black, or a woman.
Criticising someone for having an abortion is sticking your nose into an emotional, personal decision and the consequences which follow are yours to bare.
Criticising someone for having an abortion is sticking your nose into an emotional, personal decision and the consequences which follow are yours to bare.
There are a lot of things that may be personal or emotional, this however does not mean that we shouldn't be critical of decisions, especially those that affect other people. You could make the same argument for honor killings. Not that I am necessarily saying this is the case with abortion, but I think you have a very weak argument.
There are a lot of things that may be personal or emotional, this however does not mean that we shouldn't be critical of decisions,
I did not say "you may not criticise this," I said that it wasn't your business to criticise and that sticking your nose into affairs which are of no consequence to you will earn you rightful scorn.
especially those that affect other people.
Abortion affects only the family which chooses the procedure. It does not affect society, except indirectly when a pregnant woman dies from attempting an illegal abortion herself, or when a woman has a child she does not want, and does not raise with a proper environment.
You could make the same argument for honor killings.
Honour killings are not private matters because they affect the lives of people directly, particularly a person's right to life.
Not that I am necessarily saying this is the case with abortion, but I think you have a very weak argument.
It isn't one's place to tell a husband and wife how many children they may have, nor is it one's place to tell a family which schools they may use, what jobs they may take, or what they may do in the bedroom. These are part of the family's personal life. Telling a woman that she has no right to control her body's reproductive system is likewise disrespectful of that privacy unless it is invited. This shouldn't even be an issue in today's society but religious leaders find this to be a wonderfully useful wedge issue, and have invited people to self-righteously stick their noses where they don't belong.
I did not say "you may not criticise this," I said that it wasn't your business to criticise and that sticking your nose into affairs which are of no consequence to you...
It's essentially saying the same thing.
Abortion affects only the family which chooses the procedure. It does not affect society, except indirectly when a pregnant woman dies from attempting an illegal abortion herself, or when a woman has a child she does not want, and does not raise with a proper environment.
Except when it affects the rest of the family, it IS affecting other people. I will again have to cite the example of a bad parenting decision, say a parent decides to punish a child for smoking by forcing that child to smoke a whole carton of cigarettes.
It's probably none of my business, to tell that parent that is a cruel and unproductive way of punishing a child, and it's probably none of my business to say that, but I am only looking out for the best interest of that child. I am not forcing the parent to change their parenting techniques, I am simply getting them to think about what they are doing. Especially when parents do not listen to their kids, it's good to have someone to stand up for them.
Honour killings are not private matters because they affect the lives of people directly
Honor killings "affects only the family which chooses the procedure".
I'm not agreeing with Republican, I'm just saying you have a poor argument which could apply in many different situations.
No it isn't. One forbids it, the other considers it earning of its consequences.
Except when it affects the rest of the family, it IS affecting other people. I will again have to cite the example of a bad parenting decision, say a parent decides to punish a child for smoking by forcing that child to smoke a whole carton of cigarettes.
Which isn't society, and the level it affects society is considered to be in acceptable private levels. That's why we consider it absurd to tell others what kind of sex they may have, or what they may eat.
Honor killings "affects only the family which chooses the procedure".
I'm not agreeing with Republican, I'm just saying you have a poor argument which could apply in many different situations.
Honour killings deprive individuals over their legal autonomy of body. They are murder. Abortion is a private decision which modern culture has magnified into everybody's business.
No it isn't. One forbids it, the other considers it earning of its consequences.
And what happens when you do something which is forbidden? You suffer the consequences.
Which isn't society, and the level it affects society is considered to be in acceptable private levels. That's why we consider it absurd to tell others what kind of sex they may have, or what they may eat.
Yet society does regulate these things, even a so-called modern society such as our own. Which is why an argument resting on what society considers an activity to be, is a self-defeating argument because this is precisely what you are arguing against.
Honour killings deprive individuals over their legal autonomy of body. They are murder. Abortion is a private decision which modern culture has magnified into everybody's business.
Murder is a legal definition. Prior to 1973, abortion was considered murder in many places in the United States. I would not rest your argument on what the law says, or even on what society says as these things tend to change.
Just pointing out some of the flaws in your argument.
Your reasoning is a faulty syllogism, that when broken down is thus:
That which may not be criticised earns scorn (Definition)
A person earns scorn when critical (Inductive)
Therefore, it was a topic which may not be criticised (Forbidden)
The error is in linking a deductive premise with an inductive set. In other words, not all things which are scorned in society, criticism or not, are forbidden. It is a flimsy minor premise.
Secondly, while outwardly people talk about private lives and give their opinions, this is not binding. It is a matter of being able to share space with each other that we do not impose these values into our private lives. It is also known as boundaries or respect.
It is likewise absurd to give people the right to impose their opinions on the reproductive systems of others. I do not consider this a weak argument, but one of principle. Principles are axiomatic and can rarely be defended on purely logical grounds, they instead exist as what we want from society as opposed to a logical framework which given valid premises tells us what must happen in society.
The error is in linking a deductive premise with an inductive set. In other words, not all things which are scorned in society, criticism or not, are forbidden
I never said they were. I'm saying to you that telling someone they cannot do something, and chastising them for doing it, are not fundamentally different. Which is what you have done.
Secondly, while outwardly people talk about private lives and give their opinions, this is not binding.
No disagreement here.
It is a matter of being able to share space with each other that we do not impose these values into our private lives.
This assumes that such a person has the power to impose his/her values. I am not talking about "imposing" anything. All I've ever stated is that people have the right to criticize whatever they desire.
It is likewise absurd to give people the right to impose their opinions on the reproductive systems of others.
No one has to give them that right, people already have the right to "impose" or share their opinion on whatever they so choose. No matter how idiotic or intrusive that opinion may be.
I never said they were. I'm saying to you that telling someone they cannot do something, and chastising them for doing it, are not fundamentally different. Which is what you have done.
Except that they are fundamentally different, as I just made clear. If you need more clearness, one is enforced by written law or severe social punishments while the other is enforced by possible disapproval.
It's not illegal to call a person a name, neither is it severely punished, but it is tacitly wrong socially.
This assumes that such a person has the power to impose his/her values. I am not talking about "imposing" anything. All I've ever stated is that people have the right to criticize whatever they desire.
Imposing can have many different forms, with different levels of severity. When you give your unsolicited opinion, you are imposing yourself upon another person. You are imposing your view.
No one has to give them that right, people already have the right to "impose" or share their opinion on whatever they so choose. No matter how idiotic or intrusive that opinion may be.
Socially speaking, organised political religion has given these people the right to impose themselves with severity ranging from legal repercussions and murder to unsolicited opinions designed to modify behaviour. If we compare this with our social views on privacy for other, similar matters we would find this inconsistent.
Why should anyone be given license to tell you what you can do in a hospital, over your own body, affecting your own family, when it would be seen as absurd for a similar stranger telling you that you ought not be able to make love or eat fatty foods? The latter would receive the scorn of "That isn't your business." The former is quietly accepted as permissible in this modern political climate. I find it absurd.
Except that they are fundamentally different, as I just made clear. If you need more clearness, one is enforced by written law or severe social punishments while the other is enforced by possible disapproval.
Telling someone that they cannot criticize something, is not enforced by law, nor has it ever been in this Nation. I can't imagine how you would even enforce such a law.
It's one thing to argue abortion on moral grounds, but it's an entirely different situation to chastise or discourage people from even discussing the topic. No topic, is beyond criticism, and nothing too sacred to examine. A free society is entirely dependent on free expression. The very idea that something is beyond criticism is antithetical to an egalitarian society.
I recall you saying something to the affect that if you criticize someone for an abortion you will receive scorn, perhaps true, although irrelevant to the discussion on the morality of abortion. This does absolutely nothing to invalid arguments against abortion.
If you look through this debate you may notice, that nowhere have I said that abortions were wrong. I have never said this.
Telling someone that they cannot criticize something, is not enforced by law, nor has it ever been in this Nation. I can't imagine how you would even enforce such a law.
I never suggested such a law. Is my English unclear to you?
It's one thing to argue abortion on moral grounds, but it's an entirely different situation to chastise or discourage people from even discussing the topic. No topic, is beyond criticism, and nothing too sacred to examine. A free society is entirely dependent on free expression. The very idea that something is beyond criticism is antithetical to an egalitarian society.
I did not chastise anybody for discussing the topic. I chastised a person for butting his nose into other people's affairs in his given hypothetical example. It's one thing to discuss abortion. It's yet another to give your opinion when asked or appropriate to the given situation. However it's altogether different when you make it your business to criticise a person over a decision that they are making with respect to their own body, uninvited. In that case you deserve ridicule which you will likely receive. People need to remember this little social boundary instead of fostering their own self-righteousness.
I recall you saying something to the affect that if you criticize someone for an abortion you will receive scorn, perhaps true, although irrelevant to the discussion on the morality of abortion. This does absolutely nothing to invalid arguments against abortion.
I never said that it invalidated arguments against abortion. I said that a person should have more respect than to tell a stranger what to do with their womb.
If you look through this debate you may notice, that nowhere have I said that abortions were wrong. I have never said this.
I never suggested such a law. Is my English unclear to you?
Did you not say "Except that they are fundamentally different, as I just made clear. If you need more clearness, one is enforced by written law or severe social punishments..."?
in response to my statement "...telling someone they cannot do something, and chastising them for doing it, are not fundamentally different."
Tell me if I am misunderstanding. What exactly is being enforced by written law?
I did not chastise anybody for discussing the topic. I chastised a person for butting his nose into other people's affairs in his given hypothetical example.
When the topic is about other people's affairs (ie abortion), it is.
I said that a person should have more respect than to tell a stranger what to do with their womb.
Even if you are strongly pro-choice you should see that such debates aren't simply over a person's body (the common argument), but involve another life, whether simply a clump of cells or an unborn child. I don't really find anything wrong with abortion especially at a very early stage in pregnancy, but even I realize that to say the debate is solely over a woman's body is slightly disingenuous.
Did you not say "Except that they are fundamentally different, as I just made clear. If you need more clearness, one is enforced by written law or severe social punishments..."?
Forbidden things are punished by law. Discouraged or socially disapproved of things are enforced by social reaction.
When the topic is about other people's affairs (ie abortion), it is.
He gave a hypothetical example of criticising a woman for having an abortion. I told him that it wasn't his business to do so and he would deserve the social consequences (example being yelled at, insulted, or distanced from).
Even if you are strongly pro-choice you should see that such debates aren't simply over a person's body (the common argument), but involve another life, whether simply a clump of cells or an unborn child.
This is the product of religious and political propaganda, designed to make people emotionally sensitive to the topic, enough so that they approach people they do not know over matters that do not concern them in any way, and tell them how to live their life.
I don't really find anything wrong with abortion especially at a very early stage in pregnancy, but even I realize that to say the debate is solely over a woman's body is slightly disingenuous.
The difference between being critical and being intolerant is a difference in how vehement your opposition to the issue and the actions you take in this regard.
If you are critical of homosexuality you are opposed to the act and will vote against gay marriage, but you probably won't do much beyond that, and will be relatively congenial and accepting of homosexuals in your life.
If you are intolerant of homosexuality, you take it a whole level farther. If you would hate someone purely for being gay, would fire a gay employee, disown a gay child or support physical attacks against them you are being intolerant/bigoted.
If you are critical of abortion, you would vote against the legalization of abortion, perhaps even protest (albeit peacefully and relatively respectfully) at an abortion clinic.
If you are intolerant of abortion, you might not have any problem with killing abortion doctors, or would disavow a friend who had an abortion.
So back to the premise and my original argument: Are liberals intolerant? Are conservatives? Both sides have people who are, both sides have people who are not. Both sides have people who are intolerant of certain issues and merely critical of others. Both sides have people who change from critical to intolerant (or vice versa) over time.
Portraying all, or even most liberals, as people who want to forcibly take away your guns, insult you in a debate, and gleefully lead this country into socialism is no more accurate than portraying the average conservative as a redneck, trigger-happy, homophobic, racist.
The extremists of either wing aren't as prevalent as the media or anonymous posts on message boards might lead one to believe, and people can feel very passionately about an issue without totally disrespecting the opposition.
While votes are displayed in a binary no/yes fashion, this says nothing of the variety of thought processes that can go into casting a vote.
Some people who are personally ambivalent or have minimal opinions on a issue may not even vote regarding that issue, but others may do so simply to toe the party line of their favorite politicians. Some people vote as purely knee-jerk reactions, essentially simplifying the nature of what they are voting on to mean "this supports or contends with my belief" and pay little attention to the actual wording. Others read the wording very carefully, and/or do research on the results of similar initiatives in other localities. In this case they may end up voting against their heart because they don't trust the wording, don't think it truly supports their side or don't think the end result will be beneficial for society as a whole.
Allow me to explain how I differentiate between criticism and intolerance. To me, criticism involves analysis. It is a primarily intellectual activity. You see problems with a certain approach, and you probably have another approach in mind that would be better, so you are critical of the initial position being evaluated. Intolerance is a whole level higher than this, like the difference between disliking a person and actually hating that person. To me, intolerance is a more emotional and strictly negative evaluation, and may be divorced from intellectual analysis.
Willingness to legislate a ban on something can happen in both viewpoints. The merely critical may believe that the activity/product in question causes a detriment to society and that we would be better off without it, though they see this as pretty much a mathematical thing, and would conceivably be open to a compromise if the equation can be changed (banning abortion except in cases of rape or incest).
The intolerant feel it is just downright wrong, evil, or what-have-you. Its presence makes them angry, and they would probably continue to fight it even if the "math" of the issue changed (banning abortion at all times, at all places, no exceptions).
I also believe that the intolerant are more willing to externalize their beliefs. They would be more willing to despise a person who supports the opposing viewpoint, or take the law into their own hands if their opinion fails to be legislated.
A vote against something merely signifies opposition, and being critical of a view or being intolerant of it can both lead to opposition. This alone doesn't tell you how vehemently opposed the person is or why they are opposed.
I agree there's a difference betweeen intolerance and criticism, though I don't think it's the difference you described.
"Intolerance" usually carries a negative connotation - we equate it with hatred, violence, irrationality, etc, as you have. But I think if you take a broader, neutral definition, it is accurate to say that liberals are intolerant of this and that (and the same for conservatives).
Tolerate: to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit
Criticise: to censure or find fault with
(from Dictionary.com)
If I'm intolerant of homosexuality, it means I don't want it to happen. I don't want people to be gay, I don't want gay sex to be allowed, I don't want gay couples to be portrayed in movies. However, it doesn't necessarily mean I advocate violence towards gay people, and doesn't necessarily mean that I'm against homosexuality for no reason.
If I merely criticise homosexuality, it just means I don't like it, I find it inferior to heterosexuality, etc. It doesn't mean I can't put up with it. Or to try a different example, if you don't like a particular author or music genre, you would criticise it, but you wouldn't lobby for it to be banned.
So I would call anyone who wants something to be banned by law to be intolerant of it, because don't merely dislike it. They want to stop it from happening entirely. As a society we're intolerant of murder, rape, theft, child abuse. Pro-life lobbyists are intolerant of abortions. Gun control lobbyists are intolerant of people having guns. And so on...
Interesting. You used the dictionary.com definition for tolerate, but not intolerant. So what does your source say about "intolerant"?:
Intolerant: "not tolerating or respecting beliefs, opinions, usages, manners, etc., different from one's own, as in political or religious matters; bigoted."
now, let's compare that to criticize, which you already posted:
"Criticise: to censure or find fault with"
Aside from my more psychological evaluation (which, I admit, is an opinion I hold and may be wrong) I don't see how these definitions refute what I was saying. When the question is phrased as a yes/no dichotomy, both parties might say no, even if they have subtly different feelings on the issue.
Remember that voting for an issue isn't the same as lobbying about that issue. When you get to the ballot box, all the leg work has been done for you. You are merely being asked your honest opinion.
Let's use your music example: let's say that I am opposed to a certain genre (I don't universally hate any genre of music, but I dislike most country that I've heard, so we will use that example here.) If I go to friend's house and they play country music the whole time, I may be critical of their choice, but I won't necessarily ask them to change the music, or complain about it while I'm there. But what if they ask me if I am okay with their selection? Wouldn't it be in my best interest to be honest and say that I would rather listen to something else?
That is how I view voting. Every time I hit the ballot box I see initiatives that I agree with or disagree with, and I vote based on my opinion. That doesn't mean that everything I am voting to ban is something I would have tried to enforce personally. But since it is there, I say how I feel about the issue.
Also, I never said people who are intolerant of homosexuality will automatically advocate violence toward them, I am saying that they are more likely to than if they are merely critical. In the individual, this is basically determined by how intolerant the person is of violence as well. The reason most pro-choicers are intolerant of abortion is because they equate it with murder. So many of them will not justify the murder of an abortion doctor, because they feel that murder is wrong period. Others believe that the murder of an abortion doctor will decrease the total amount of abortions (murders, by their definition) that will happen, or that justice for the abortions they have already performed is being served. And some of them are just hateful people. If someone is critical of abortion, they still have reason to vote against it, but it is harder to imagine them voting for the more extreme versions of the ban or justifying an attack on abortion clinics or doctors.
Also, the line is blurry. Some people get much more emotional about issues during election season than they normally are, and might have stronger opposition to an issue when it is being thrown in their face during every commercial break.
I picked tolerate so that my two definitions would both be verbs - it's easier to compare words when they belong to the same word class, and tolerate was the closest verb I could find to intolerance. But the dictionary definition of intolerant supports what I said earlier: it means not tolerating, plus a frequently perceived negative connotation ("not respecting", "bigoted" - terms that also carry a negative connotation).
It's true that voting is a far less proactive measure than lobbying, but the concept remains the same. When the ballot paper asks you for your opinion, it's not asking you "do you think x is good?" but "do you want x to be allowed or banned?" The difference between these two questions is huge.
There is some merit in your example about music, but I think it doesn't replicate the gravity of the vote. You're at a private location with a small number of people, and you tell your host that during the time that you're at that location, you'd prefer that they played something other than country. This is a matter of collaboration and compromise on a limited scale in a limited situation. You don't want to stop everybody from listening to country music altogether; you just want to stop your friends from listening to country during the time that you are at their place.
The vote is quite a different matter. When you're voting to have something banned in your nation (I'll use the word nation instead of country, so as not to get it confused with country music), you're voting to restrict the freedom of every person in your nation. It has a blanket effect on everyone's actions at all times - it's a much more serious matter. Someone who would vote for something to be banned for the sole reason that they personally think it is bad would be described as very narrow-minded. I think drinking and smoking are bad, but I wouldn't vote to have them banned because I think they're not so detrimental to society that it's worth restricting everyone's freedom.
I'll illustrate the difference between the informal "what music do we play at our house" vote and the formal "what is allowed and not allowed in this nation" vote with the music example again, altering it a little to make it closer to real-life. Say it's hip hop that you really don't like. If your friends play hip hop while you're at their place, and ask you what you think of it, you'd say you wish they would play something else. But then a politician starts a debate about how hip hop is ruining the nation's youth, and you get asked in the ballot box whether or not you want hip hop to be banned. What would you say? You'd probably vote to keep hip hop legal. Even though you personally don't like it and wouldn't want to listen to it, you want to allow other people to have freedom of choice in music. You're critical of hip hop, but you don't not vote against it.
(Of course, I realise there are some people who think that what they like is what everyone needs to do, and some people who whimsically cast their vote based on personal preferences rather than on consideration of the nation's interests. But I'd think of such attitudes as highly problematic.)
There are degrees of criticism and degrees of intolerance, of course. Someone who is highly intolerant of something may, as you suggest, proactively enforce their beliefs. (I was only using violence as an example of proactive enforcement, by the way, not claiming that you think all intolerant people advocate violence.) But you can be intolerant without being particularly proactive about your intolerance. Intolerance is a state of mind, not a set of actions. "Tolerating" something means you're willing to allow it to happen, even if you personally don't like it. "Not tolerating" or "intolerant", in the broad sense, simply means that you're not willing to allow it to happen. If you're going to vote for something to be banned, and this vote is your honest opinion, doesn't that entail that you're not willing to allow it to happen?
While I personally see the logic behind your assertions, my argument here is that not everybody votes with such logic. I'm not even sure if the majority does. You even conceded the possibility of that when you said:
"(Of course, I realise there are some people who think that what they like is what everyone needs to do, and some people who whimsically cast their vote based on personal preferences rather than on consideration of the nation's interests. But I'd think of such attitudes as highly problematic.)"
I also see that as highly problematic, but that doesn't mean that people won't vote that way. Or won't vote to simply support their party. Or that everyone actually treats voting with more gravity than music selection. Or other possible factors neither of us have considered. The contention here isn't based around what voting ethics are best or most logical. I am simply saying that voting record alone is far too black and white to understand the motives of the human mind.
It might be interesting if propositions put up for vote had multiple options besides yes/no. Degrees of severity within the proposition. With this system, one's tolerance level could be more accurately assessed if someone makes a statement "I voted "E" on proposition 13!" Of course such a system would be horribly impractical, so I am not proposing such a thing.
True, I do agree with the point that people's votes don't always match up with their beliefs. For example, greed is always a powerful motivator: how many people will vote for something that is detrimental to their personal interests, even if they think it will benefit the country overall?
If you vote for something that you don't believe will be good for the country, I'd agree that doesn't count as intolerance, as your vote doesn't reflect your honest opinion. It might not even be criticism - it'd depend on what you really think. Same goes for whimsical voting - your vote doesn't reflect your opinion.
As for people who really just vote to ban whatever they don't personally like, I'd say that for them, criticism entails intolerance. They can't stand anything that they don't like.
That is essentially what I'm saying, although I hadn't considered greed really, so kudos to you for tossing that in. And I think I can agree with your last point.
An example that I thought of today is gun control. When I was younger, I supported an extremely restrictive gun policy, but I wouldn't say I was truly intolerant of guns or gun owners. I had always known people who were responsible and could be trusted with guns. The problem was, they weren't representative of society as a whole. Obviously some people use guns for criminal purposes, but there were also people who were non-criminals but still irresponsible. And some of those people have kids. So to me it was worth restricting gun rights to all if it could reduce crime and prevent the tragic deaths of children. But as time has passed I have moved much more to the center on the issue for numerous reasons. I may be more tolerant now, but I don't think that means I was intolerant then. I just thought I was being practical. Granted, I don't know if this could apply to all issues (it is hard for me to imagine an equivalent in gay marriage or abortion, for example) but it does make me feel that a person's motivations are really hard to ascertain unless they clearly spell them out to you.
This is true until you try to enshrine your beliefs about abortion or homosexuality into law. If you try to make abortion illegal, so that they are unavailable even to those who disagree with your world view, then you've crossed a line, because if you think abortion is wrong, you can always choose not to get one. As far as homosexuality goes, I believe the conservative stance against homosexuality is purely based on religious beliefs that are not shared by all Americans, so if you try to legislate against gay rights, that is bigotry. Live and let live.
"In general, conservatives tend to be intolerant of abortions, people who choose to get abortions, homosexuality, people who are environmentally conscious, government regulations, socialism, the global community, atheists, marijuana, and of course, anyone who suggests that Reagan wasn't a good president."
And if you read this, and think that its just common sense to be intolerant of such things, bear in mind that many liberals tend to feel the same way about the various subjects you mentioned. The road goes both ways.
I agree with you. I was just pointing out that intolerance happens on both ends of the spectrum, it just takes a different form on the left than it does on the right.
That is a gross stereotypical generalization and I know for a fact that is untrue. Its like saying all liberals or Democrats don't believe in god or the bible and voted for Obama because he is black.
This made me laugh out loud, literally. What a crock of BS. I am so tired of Republicans calling themselves "patriots" while fighting against everything presented to attempt to help the country and not hurt it more.
I am so tired of Republicans calling themselves "patriots" while fighting against everything presented to attempt to help the country and not hurt it more.
Republicans have fought against:
1.) The planned deportation of only felons or threats to national security instead of all illegal immigrants.
How is this going to help the country??? All it is is the Federal government buckling and giving in to hordes of lawbreakers because they don't have the fortitude to deal with the problem.
2.) Tax increases.
Again, tax increases aren't going to help. Taxes (even with the proposed tax increases from the Obama administration) do not generate enough federal revenue to offset the federal spending. If anything, a tax increase in this economy will drive the market down even further than it's already crashed.
3.) The reduction of federal funding to the US military.
If anything there needs to be more. The U.S. DoD has had to deal with budget cuts of every kind for as long as Democrats have had a say. Some of them having to do with armor and weapon reliability. Those kinds have caused unnecessary bloodshed.
Oh no. No, sir, they fight against tax increases when it benefits the rich (see Bush Tax Cuts).
When it has any inkling of possibly helping working americans and the middle class, they do things (say we have a payroll tax cut proposed by the president) like stonewall legislation, refuse to vote on the tax cut, and then close session for the year to prevent a vote. That is not a hypothetical...
Republicans have fought against...The reduction of federal funding to the US military
Imperialism fueled by military spending is killing our national security. Starting endless wars in the Middle East ARE NOT HELPING OUR NATION SECURITY INTERESTS. We are the terrorists. You need to realize that the "enemy" is not the aggressor. WE send missiles. WE kill innocent civilians. WE go to war with those countries. They hate us because we invade their land and kill their people. Imperialism is never sustainable. Republican foreign policy will be the end of us. We need to stop this nonsense. And now these idiots want to go to war with Iran. DoD spending should be slashed. 41% of the world's military spending is used to "protect?" 4% of its population.
Question:
Have there been fewer terrorist attacks/attempts on the US and her allies compared to before 9/11 or more?
You are wrong. They have increased as we have become more and more like an imperialist regime thanks to republicans. The "terrorists" have won.
they fight against tax increases when it benefits the rich
Yes. Like I said earlier. Tax increases. Rich or not, the more taxes there are, the less money there is in the private sector economy.
They hate us because we invade their land and kill their people. Imperialism is never sustainable.
No, they hate us because we don't don't conform to Sharia law. Go there sometime and you'll understand that.
And now these idiots want to go to war with Iran.
Yes, a country with an insane Holocaust-denying, Islamic fundamentalist leadership with nuclear ambitions. No reason we should worry about that situation.
Have there been fewer terrorist attacks/attempts on the US and her allies compared to before 9/11 or more?
You are wrong. They have increased as we have become more and more like an imperialist regime thanks to republicans. The "terrorists" have won.
There have always been terrorists and terrorist attacks. The only reason anyone takes notice of them now days is because of instant, mass communication and greater abilities for small groups of people to cause a lot more damage.
Yes. Like I said earlier. Tax increases. Rich or not, the more taxes there are, the less money there is in the private sector economy.
Honestly, did you even read what I wrote?
I'll re-post it:
Oh no. No, sir, they fight against tax increases when it benefits the rich (see Bush Tax Cuts).
When it has any inkling of possibly helping working americans and the middle class, they do things (say we have a payroll tax cut proposed by the president) like stonewall legislation, refuse to vote on the tax cut, and then close session for the year to prevent a vote. That is not a hypothetical...
No, they hate us because we don't don't conform to Sharia law.
Proof?
Go there sometime and you'll understand that.
I have actually been there.
with nuclear ambitions.
Proof? Wait..there isn't any. Even if they did have nuclear weapons (and there is no evidence that they are even developing any--just more lies and war propaganda from republicans that got us into Iraq), should we start a world war? China has nukes, should we go to war with them? North Korea? Russia? Pakistan? Your argument falls apart.
There have always been terrorists and terrorist attacks. The only reason anyone takes notice of them now days is because of instant, mass communication and greater abilities for small groups of people to cause a lot more damage.
Yes I did read what you wrote. My point is that the big moneymakers in the US economy have a greater influence on it's health, and therefore, should not be taxed.
Proof?
Most of Islam is friendly towards the U.S. and quite peaceful. The extremists who are not openly admit that their motive for violence is to bring infidels under Sharia law. They will attack and intimidate anyone who don't adhere to their extremest views. U.S. occupation or not.
Proof? Wait..there isn't any.
The IAEA disagrees. They report that Iran had undertaken research and experiments geared to developing a nuclear weapons capability. Not only that, but they refused to allow U.N. safety inspectors in to research these claims.
should we start a world war? China has nukes, should we go to war with them? North Korea? Russia? Pakistan?
A war with Iran would by no means be a world one. In fact, if the U.S. were to reinstate the draft, Iran could be wiped out in less than a year. China is not under the leadership of an insane extremest dictator "president", nor is Russia. Though North Korea and Pakistan should probably be closely watched.
I disagree. You said that republicans fight against tax increases, yet they sat by and prevented a vote on tax cuts for the middle class.
My point is that the big moneymakers in the US economy have a greater influence on it's health, and therefore, should not be taxed.
There is absolutely no evidence that this is true and mountains of evidence to the contrary. There is a strong correlation between top marginal income tax rates and GDP growth and unemployment. As we lowered top tier tax rates, GDP growth slowed. AS we lowered top tier tax rates, unemployment went up. (link: http://boards.fool.com/top-marginal-tax-rate-and-unemployment-28877723.aspx))
This means one of two things: 1) Higher taxes for the rich result in higher GDP growth and lower unemployment. 2) There is no correlation
Either way, your unfounded theory is completely disproved.
Most of Islam is friendly towards the U.S. and quite peaceful.
You are the most open-minded republican I have ever met.
The extremists who are not openly admit that their motive for violence is to bring infidels under Sharia law. They will attack and intimidate anyone who don't adhere to their extremest views. U.S. occupation or not.
"What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others?" --Dr. Ron Paul
Though North Korea and Pakistan should probably be closely watched.
What makes North Korea and Pakistan any different from Iran. NK is also ruled by a crazy dictator (like father like son). NK, unlike Iran, actually has nukes (and there isn't evidence that Iran is even developing any). NK is much more of an oppressive regime than Iran. There is no logical argument for going to war with Iran without also going to war with Pakistan and North Korea.
The IAEA disagrees. They report that Iran had undertaken research and experiments geared to developing a nuclear weapons capability.
The report claimed that, but it provided ZERO evidence to prove that. If I am wrong, please cite damning factual evidence from the report that proves your claim.
That's not proof. You claimed that the reason there are more terrorists attacks after 9/11 then before was because they simply went unnoticed before (seriously?). All you have proven is that terrorists attacks occurred before 9/11.
I disagree. You said that republicans fight against tax increases, yet they sat by and prevented a vote on tax cuts for the middle class.
I know that, but in general, republicans tend not to be in favor of more taxation across the board. This is a general debate, so I am making general arguments.
There is absolutely no evidence that this is true and mountains of evidence to the contrary.
There is a mountain of evidence that goes both ways, but lets utilize some common sense. Lets say you're the CEO of McDonald's, and you've had a fairly sizable profit increase. You can either pocket the money, or you can invest it in expanding the company and making even more money. Most people choose the latter. It's risk taking that got them there in the first place. But even if you pocket the money, it doesn't just disappear. The purpose of having money is to be able to acquire items and services. Suppose a wealthy person pockets his extra profits and decides to buy a fancy new mansion in California. Those millions of dollars he's spending are going towards other people. Contractors, architects, masons, electricians, plumbers, and dozens of others who are needed to produce the final product. Not to mention plenty of work for supply companies and lumberyards.
You are the most open-minded republican I have ever met.
Actually most of us believe that. Even Glenn Beck.
"What if we wake up one day and realize that the terrorist threat is a predictable consequence of our meddling in the affairs of others?" --Dr. Ron Paul
Lets make something perfectly clear. Members of extremest organizations like AlQueda and the Taliban hate anyone who do not conform to Sharia law, and they believe it is their responsibility to conquer anyone who resists it.
What makes North Korea and Pakistan any different from Iran. NK is also ruled by a crazy dictator (like father like son).
Because North Korea is allied with China, and China would have a lot to lose from a nuclear war between Korea and the US. But I do think Pakistan should be disarmed.
The report claimed that, but it provided ZERO evidence to prove that.
They were building Uranium refinement plants and running experiments on prototype implosion disks. They also fought the UN safety commission tooth and nail when they demanded an inspection.
All you have proven is that terrorists attacks occurred before 9/11.
That's all I needed to prove. Islamic extremists hated the US even before there was widespread occupation in their land.
I know that, but in general, republicans tend not to be in favor of more taxation across the board. This is a general debate, so I am making general arguments.
Really? When in the past, say, two decades (10 congresses) have the republicans ever championed tax cuts for the middle class and poor (if you say bush tax cuts I will laugh so hard...).
There is a mountain of evidence that goes both ways, but lets utilize some common sense. Lets say you're the CEO of McDonald's, and you've had a fairly sizable profit increase. You can either pocket the money, or you can invest it in expanding the company and making even more money. Most people choose the latter. It's risk taking that got them there in the first place. But even if you pocket the money, it doesn't just disappear. The purpose of having money is to be able to acquire items and services. Suppose a wealthy person pockets his extra profits and decides to buy a fancy new mansion in California. Those millions of dollars he's spending are going towards other people. Contractors, architects, masons, electricians, plumbers, and dozens of others who are needed to produce the final product. Not to mention plenty of work for supply companies and lumberyards.
what I heard (no disrespect): blah blah blah, unfounded theories, hypotheticals, blah.
1) If it works in theory, you should have no problem proving it with facts.
2) The facts contradict your claims.
Actually most of us believe that. Even Glenn Beck.
I have talked to republicans (about 15 through the app I have) and NONE except for you have said Islam is a mostly peaceful religion. I'm starting to think our wars in the middle east are simply religious ones.
They were building Uranium refinement plants and running experiments on prototype implosion disks.
Well it would be hard to continue their nuclear power program without it...
They also fought the UN safety commission tooth and nail when they demanded an inspection.
That's not evidence, and would you let agents from an organization that is crippling your economy with sanctions enter your country to steal information?
Because North Korea is allied with China, and China would have a lot to lose from a nuclear war between Korea and the US. But I do think Pakistan should be disarmed.((
And Iran isn't? Porbably along with half the middle east...
That's all I needed to prove. Islamic extremists hated the US even before there was widespread occupation in their land.
That's not my point. Attacks have SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED since we started our preemptive wars of aggression. And now Iran is next. You wanna guess how that will affect the trend?
Really? When in the past, say, two decades (10 congresses) have the republicans ever championed tax cuts for the middle class and poor (if you say bush tax cuts I will laugh so hard...).
Why in the world should low and middle class get any less taxes than they already have?
what I heard (no disrespect): blah blah blah, unfounded theories, hypotheticals, blah.
1) If it works in theory, you should have no problem proving it with facts.
2) The facts contradict your claims.
what I heard (no disrespect): I am not interested in common sense or acknowledging that there is evidence that can sway to both sides of the argument.
Well it would be hard to continue their nuclear power program without it...
It would also be pretty hard to build WMDs without it too. By the way, implosion disks are used in nuclear explosives, not reactors.
That's not evidence, and would you let agents from an organization that is crippling your economy with sanctions enter your country to steal information?
The U.N. nuclear safety commission knows exactly how nuclear weapons are made in every detail. They wouldn't need to steal the information from Iran.
And Iran isn't? Porbably along with half the middle east...
Iran not as much. China has a much higher economic interest in North Korea than anywhere in the middle east.
That's not my point. Attacks have SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED since we started our preemptive wars of aggression. And now Iran is next. You wanna guess how that will affect the trend?
Well of course they would increase. We haven't killed nearly enough of them to effectively gain control of that area. That's why they should have restarted the draft and gone to an all out war instead of pussyfooting around with police action.
Why in the world should low and middle class get any less taxes than they already have?
So you are saying we need to raise taxes, the opposite of what you said previously.
there is evidence that can sway to both sides of the argument.
What evidence? You can't deny the facts. You guys claimed tax cuts for the rich would lower unemployment-- it went up. You claimed it would increase GDP growth-- growth slowed and stalled.
It would also be pretty hard to build WMDs without it too.
"It documents alleged Iranian work on the kind of implosion device that would be needed to detonate a nuclear weapon." --BBC News
China has a much higher economic interest in North Korea than anywhere in the middle east.
Really? Because they seem to be heavily invested in the region. Oil imports from the middle east. It has gone up 3000% from 1990-2002. Now 60% of their oil comes from the region? But NK is more significant? How?
Well of course they would increase.
Why?
That's why they should have restarted the draft and gone to an all out war instead of pussyfooting around with police action.
Why? To kill "terrorists?" How many trillions more do we have waste? How many millions more have to die before you are satisfied? I would fear for our country if another war-mongering republican was elected.
So even though the war in the middle east has proven to not only be innefctive, but harmful to our national security, you want more dead soldiers and more dead civilians and more debt? And before you say that's not what you want, ask your self what the consequences of war are...
So you are saying we need to raise taxes, the opposite of what you said previously.
I never said I wanted to raise taxes. I just said I don't see why we need to cut taxes for the poor and middle class.
What evidence? You can't deny the facts.
Yet you can deny logic.
"It documents alleged Iranian work on the kind of implosion device that would be needed to detonate a nuclear weapon." --BBC News
If there is even a CHANCE that a crazy militant dictator has or is making WMDs it demands attention.
Really? Because they seem to be heavily invested in the region. Oil imports from the middle east. It has gone up 3000% from 1990-2002. Now 60% of their oil comes from the region? But NK is more significant? How?
Oil is a minuscule portion of China's power. The vast majority of it is coal. North Korea has companies owned by China and vice-versa.
Why?
Because we antagonized them. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be violent if no one had done anything in the first place.
Why? To kill "terrorists?" How many trillions more do we have waste?
The reason we are wasting resources is because we are involving ourselves in police action that is dragging on for over a decade instead of wiping them out all at once.
How many millions more have to die before you are satisfied?
Every last one of them. That's what it's going to take if we expect any permanent improvement in the middle east.
So even though the war in the middle east has proven to not only be innefctive, but harmful to our national security, you want more dead soldiers and more dead civilians and more debt?
It is ineffective because it does not qualify as a war at all. And if we continue with our current foreign policy, we will be further in debt as the years go by then if we had just solved the problem permanently in the first place.
I never said I wanted to raise taxes. I just said I don't see why we need to cut taxes for the poor and middle class.
So the level of taxation of the poor and middle class is perfect?
Yet you can deny logic.
What? You said there were facts to the contrary. Show me these facts that show and increase in GDP growth and a decrease in unemployment as top tier tax rates were lowered because all the facts point to the contrary.
If there is even a CHANCE that a crazy militant dictator has or is making WMDs it demands attention.
So we should start a world war every time there is chance that someone we don't like is making something even if there is ZERO EVIDENCE to prove this? And his is why I will never in my lifetime vote republican. You guys, in all honestly, are batshit crazy.
Oil is a minuscule portion of China's power. The vast majority of it is coal. North Korea has companies owned by China and vice-versa.
Prove to me that the business from NK (whose entire GDP is a tiny $28 billion) is more than 60% of China's oil imports...
But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be violent if no one had done anything in the first place.
Actually it is proven that they were less violent when we were minding our own business and not killing their people.
The reason we are wasting resources is because we are involving ourselves in police action that is dragging on for over a decade instead of wiping them out all at once.
So more troops=less cost? uh
Every last one of them. That's what it's going to take if we expect any permanent improvement in the middle east.
It is ineffective because it does not qualify as a war at all. And if we continue with our current foreign policy, we will be further in debt as the years go by then if we had just solved the problem permanently in the first place.
160,000 troops in Iraq at one point. 100,000 in Afghanistan. That ISN'T a "war at all." That's half of our entire 20 year involvement in Vietnam. Or was Vietnam not a real war either?
How does killing innocent people help? Mass genocide. That is your idea of "improvement."
So the level of taxation of the poor and middle class is perfect?
No, there really should be a level tax regardless of what income level a person has.
What? You said there were facts to the contrary.
Facts do not prove anything. They are used to show or support correlations. What I am saying is that I do not believe any "correlations" that do not make any logical sense. For example, fact 1.) person A smokes, fact 2.) person A has cancer, conclusion: Person A smokes because he has cancer.
So we should start a world war every time there is chance that someone we don't like is making something even if there is ZERO EVIDENCE to prove this?
There are reasons to believe Iran is in the process of developing WDMs (which you have conveniently ignored). And, like I said earlier, it wouldn't be a world war to disarm one country.
Prove to me that the business from NK (whose entire GDP is a tiny $28 billion) is more than 60% of China's oil imports...
It's not just businesses. They are allies for political reasons as well. China, from a political standpoint, is quite opposed to the middle east.
Actually it is proven that they were less violent when we were minding our own business and not killing their people.
But they were still violent. And when that violence starts to involve the US, it demands attention.
So more troops=less cost? uh
In the long run, yes. One strong decisive victory costs a lot less than prolonged issues and conflicts that will proceed indefinitely.
160,000 troops in Iraq at one point. 100,000 in Afghanistan. That ISN'T a "war at all." That's half of our entire 20 year involvement in Vietnam. Or was Vietnam not a real war either?
No, and Vietnam wasn't a war either. What should have happened there is the US should have obliterated north Vietnam, bombed Russia back to the stone age and it should have done the same to China if it continued to supply the Viet Cong.
How does killing innocent people help? Mass genocide. That is your idea of "improvement."
When I said "every last one", I was not referring to the entire population as a whole, I was referring to every last one who resists. The majority of the population in the middle east hates the jihadists as much as the US does, possible more.
Also, I see you ignored the dead soldiers point.
I'm a soldier and I can tell you that I would rather die resolving this conflict once and for all than pussyfoot around it and have my son die a decade later because the US government didn't have the integrity to wage a decisive war in the first place. Police action and not an all out war is only going to leave the problem for future generations.
No, there really should be a level tax regardless of what income level a person has.
So you want to raise taxes...
Here are your responses so far:
Should we raise taxes? No
Should we lower taxes? No
Should we keep the current levels? No
There aren't any other options. Your position is illogical.
Facts do not prove anything.
Remember when I was telling you how republicans are batshit crazy...?
What I am saying is that I do not believe any "correlations" that do not make any logical sense.
I have explained this already. Lets assume, as you say, there is no correlation. Then why should we lower their taxes? You just indirectly admitted it won't have ANY EFFECT on employment and GDP growth, so why are you claiming it will have an effect?
Again, your position is illogical.
There are reasons to believe Iran is in the process of developing WDMs
Like what? And do you think "reasons to believe" are grounds for war?
which you have conveniently ignored
IGNORED?! No. I proved those "facts" was merely unfounded speculation by war-mongerers who have repeatedly lied their way into imperialism (Iraq, Vietnam).
China, from a political standpoint, is quite opposed to the middle east.
Then why are they so heavily invested in it? Why then Pakistan go to them to sell US technology after the Bin Laden raid. Why then was there speculation that our f=drone in Iran would be sold to China?
But they were still violent.
So was the rest of the world...No region is ever completely free of violence. But what is true is that there was MUCH LESS VIOLENCE before. batshit crazy...
And when that violence starts to involve the US, it demands attention.
When did it begin to involve us? Was this before or after we started sending missiles and killing their people? And what is "attention?" Diplomacy or war? Freedom or a draft, thousands of dead soldiers, and millions of dead women and children?
In the long run, yes.
Any evidence from history?
One strong decisive victory costs a lot less than prolonged issues and conflicts that will proceed indefinitely.
What is this, the civil war? Do all the terrorists come out of their caves, line up, and face off in one large battle? Should we get our bayonets? I don't think you understand guerrilla warfare.
What should have happened there is the US should have obliterated north Vietnam, bombed Russia back to the stone age and it should have done the same to China if it continued to supply the Viet Cong.
I know! We could have done this in a day! I could have probably done it myself! Do you see my point yet?
US should have obliterated north Vietnam
YAY! Mass genocide again!
bombed Russia back to the stone age
YAY! Millions of dead women and children!!!
should have done the same to China
YAY!!! Over a billion dead innocent people!!!
One small problem with your fantasies...well thousands really, but i'll keep it short.
1) Nukes. I assume Russia and China would just let us waltz in an massacre hundreds of millions of their people...good luck with that.
2) Money. And how are we supposed to afford this?
3) Dead soldiers. Although I have noticed your eagerness to massacre people, is that really what you want? Millions of dead americans?
I was referring to every last one who resists.
So the people who resist invasion of a hostile power? I assume if China invaded tomorrow ou would welcome them with open arms....?!
I'm a soldier
Thank you for your service ;)
I would rather die resolving this conflict once and for all than pussyfoot around it and have my son die a decade later because the US government didn't have the integrity to wage a decisive war in the first place. Police action and not an all out war is only going to leave the problem for future generations.
This only works when there is a clear and defined enemy ( a nation's army and the sort). How do you win in one decisive victory if the enemy is unknown and hidden?
Vietnam war had 1,800,000 million soldiers on our side. We lost. Numbers can't achieve victory against that kind of enemy.
There aren't any other options. Your position is illogical.
We should lower taxes on businesses and the wealthy and level it to all income levels.
Remember when I was telling you how republicans are batshit crazy...?
Anyone is batshit crazy when you take what they say out of context.
I have explained this already. Lets assume, as you say, there is no correlation. Then why should we lower their taxes? You just indirectly admitted it won't have ANY EFFECT on employment and GDP growth, so why are you claiming it will have an effect?
I didn't say it wouldn't have ANY effect, only the effect you predicted.
Then why are they so heavily invested in it? Why then Pakistan go to them to sell US technology after the Bin Laden raid. Why then was there speculation that our f=drone in Iran would be sold to China?
China more often then not, is the highest bidder.
When did it begin to involve us?
It always has, and if it's not stopped, it always will.
Any evidence from history?
Don't need it. It's basic common sense. Although I don't expect you to understand that since you have rejected common sense.
What is this, the civil war? Do all the terrorists come out of their caves, line up, and face off in one large battle? Should we get our bayonets? I don't think you understand guerrilla warfare.
I fight guerrilla warfare for a living. And what I can tell you about it is that we don't have anywhere near enough troops to adequately saturate the area. We never did and that's why it's been such a failure. What we needed was a draft. Omnipresence is a must when you are in the midst of unknown combatants.
I know! We could have done this in a day! I could have probably done it myself! Do you see my point yet?
We could have done it much easier if congress would have declared war. Which they didn't do in Vietnam or Iraq.
YAY! Mass genocide again!
genocide: To eliminate a portion of a given population based on race or genetics.
Killing a few thousand North Vietnamese (who were almost entirely affiliated with the Viet Cong is not genocide.
1) Nukes. I assume Russia and China would just let us waltz in an massacre hundreds of millions of their people...good luck with that.
They couldn't do anything about it. China wouldn't have had the ability to lob a nuke across the ocean, and as for Russia, bombing them back to the stone age means wiping out their nuclear launch stations. So there's not much they could have done about it either.
Money. And how are we supposed to afford this?
HA. I can't believe a liberal would EVER ask that question.
Dead soldiers. Although I have noticed your eagerness to massacre people, is that really what you want? Millions of dead americans?
There wouldn't be dead Americans. Only dead Jihadists, which is how they are supposed to be.
So the people who resist invasion of a hostile power? I assume if China invaded tomorrow ou would welcome them with open arms....?!
There is an enormous difference between the Chinese and a band of insane extremists who demand that everyone conforms to Sharia law or dies.
This only works when there is a clear and defined enemy ( a nation's army and the sort). How do you win in one decisive victory if the enemy is unknown and hidden?
Vietnam war had 1,800,000 million soldiers on our side. We lost. Numbers can't achieve victory against that kind of enemy.
It's not just numbers. It takes some bold offensive action against the "behind the scenes" governmental powers that are supporting them. For the Viet Cong it was China and Russia. For the Taliban, it's Iran and Pakistan.
Not true at all. You're saying that all liberals are intolerant of people that didn't vote for him, which isn't true. It's just a stereotype of liberals that some conservatives are using to try and leverage themselves against the liberals. Liberals are intolerant of lies that are used to make a party look better than the other.
Not every liberal is intolerant of anti-Obama people; there are liberals that don't plan on supporting Obama anymore, but they are still liberal. It's just like conservatives that don't plan on voting for any of the GOP debaters. There are some out there.
Relative. Some liberals are intolerant, some liberals aren't, yet tolerance still remains as a large aspect of liberal thought. Tolerance and change, as it were.
That's my point. Liberals claim to be "liberal" and "tolerant" but I believe they are misrepresenting their views. They are simply intolerant of differant things than conservatives are.
I agree that human beings are imperfect, but I don't agree with a blanket statement such as "liberals are intolerant".
Liberals have just as many flaws as Conservatives. The Conservatives have the cultural, religious aspect and the Liberals have the Humanist, bleeding-heart aspect.
But, some Liberals are politically correct and are not Bleeding hearts. They're liberals simply because it is better to have a social democracy than a capitalist democracy. This is based on many more things than just a trend in ideology. And it surely isn't based on intolerance.
To me, intolerance is more vivid in the extremist sects of both sides.
Liberals create stereotypes of Conservatives as gun-toting, racist rednecks. They believe that if you bear a Confederate flag or love to own guns, you are just an inbred hillbilly who believes "if it ain't white, it ain't right".
Well, I'm only a bit white, and I love guns and am proud to live in the South (even though my area is highly Liberal). Hell, I like the Confederate Battle Flag because it is badass. I'm an Atheist and highly disagree with the Conservative cultural beliefs.
But to some extremist liberals, all I need to do is support gun-rights and have a Confederate flag and automatically I am a racist, bigoted redneck (well, I don't look like a redneck, but that doesn't matter).
Extremist Conservatives are just racist and homophobic. We all know where that goes. But it's so much easier for the general public to recognize Conservative intolerance as opposed to Liberal intolerance. As stated, Liberals are just as bad as Conservatives. Unfortunately, in today's world, the average American doesn't notice that.
There are intolerant people in every single political party. What is wrong is categorizing the whole majority of them for being intolerant when you obviously haven't met every single one of them and talked to them.
i don't believe that liberals are intolerant, but i always find it weird that it seems like every republican is against abortion, gays marrying, gays in the military, ect.. I'm a republican because i believe that you should work for your money(and not just get money handed to you from the government),(and to have lower taxes), but i'm waiting for a republican who is for abortion and is for gays marrying and joining the military and things like that.
It is not liberals who are intolerant, but Conservatives because it is they who want to limit the rights of gays, women, Muslims, minorities and the poor. Their track record is long and storied.
Liberals don't want to limit the free market, we just understand that an unregulated free market leads to abuse, as was seen in the recent economic meltdown. There are rules for every activity in life, you would not want to drive down the street if there were no stop signs, traffic lights, and dividing lines.
This is the same with gun ownership, the 120 millimeter cannon on a M1A2 main battle tank is technically a gun, but you would not argue that it is the right of Americans to have one, or would you? My point is that there are limits to everything and there is no need for a person to have a fully automatic assault weapon with a grenade launcher attached.
On the other hand Conservatives want to limit the rights of anyone who is not a white Anglo Saxon Protestant; they try to regulate where Muslims can build houses of worship, they don't want to grant gay people the right to marry or adapt children, they don't want women to have the choice to abort a child, even in the case of rape and incest.