Liberals versus conservatives: Who is better?
I favor liberals.
Side Score: 17
Side Score: 20
We have had this discussion a few pages back, however, with regard to this topic a good place to start is to set the scene for discussion, one way is to define what each represents otherwise this will become a free for all and not a debate
So here goes :-
This has been defined as a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. The former principle is stressed in classical liberalism while the latter is more evident in social liberalism.Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as democratic elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property.
This has been defined as a political and social philosophy which promotes retaining traditional social institutions in the context of the culture and civilization. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others, called reactionaries, oppose modernism and seek a return to "the way things were".
So in keeping with a debate on these definitions I'd sit more in the Liberal camp which has a broader world view of democracy and human rights and freedoms
I think that this is actually a very poor debate because these are HUGE generalizations. There are conservatives who are "better" than liberals and vice versa. I don't think extremists on either end are actually thinking. But I tend to side more with a Liberal point of view. Here's why:
The definition of the word "liberal" is - open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
This idea of being open to new behavior is very important to me. If you are not willing to learn, adapt, and grow, you are doomed and lose the ability to think. If you are open to new behavior, that means that you actually think about the choices you make instead of picking your views because they have always been this way.
Again, not a blanket statement, as there are strengths and flaws on both sides. But fundamentally, I think a liberal attitude is much more logical and as such, leads to thoughtful, better results.
? I don't see this as a straw man argument. I answered your question, but acknowledged that my answer was not fully accurate because my beliefs don't fit into a yes/no answer. It wasn't anything against you, just expressing my opinion. You raised a question of discussion, and I discussed it.
Liberals are the new-minded blokes believing the latest facts,notions;Conservaties are generally more circumspect,accepting the traditions and old valuable customs and more importantly are more experienced unlike the hot-blood liberals.But you need to be hot if you want to break new ground and that's exactly what these liberals r doin'
On the bases of my understanding of the current liberal agenda as compared to the conservative agenda, I find more to agree with in the conservative agenda.
Here is an incomplete list of the most important:
Military: Liberals want to lessen our military capability, while conservatives recognize the importance of a powerful military in dealing with international issues to our best advantage.
Deficit spending and our debt: Liberals seen to favor more and more deficit spending, while a growing number of conservatives understand the peril we face. ie Greece
Constitutional governance: Liberals seem far less interested in adherence to the law of the land, than an increasing number of conservatives.
I will doubtless be attacked on this last point most strongly, as conservatives have been drifting left for decades. IMO not withstanding, there exists a greater sense of urgency to emphasize our constitution by conservatives than liberals.
"Military: Liberals want to lessen our military capability, while conservatives recognize the importance of a powerful military in dealing with international issues to our best advantage."
Considering how we spend so much on our military compared to every other country on that planet, it would not be difficult to maintain the most powerful military whilst cutting out much of its bloated budget.
"Constitutional governance: Liberals seem far less interested in adherence to the law of the land, than an increasing number of conservatives.
I will doubtless be attacked on this last point most strongly, as conservatives have been drifting left for decades. IMO not withstanding, there exists a greater sense of urgency to emphasize our constitution by conservatives than liberals."
Except the way that Conservatives have drifted from the Constitution has not been a drift to the left at all. There have indeed been many ways that Republicans have strayed from the concept of Constitutional governance, but they have always been shifts further to the right.
Our military capabilities are light years ahead of our enemies. This is a serious advantage that needs to be maintained and exploited in our best interests. Is there waste, unnecessary duplication and room for focussed reductions in spending YES.
Our republican friends most certainly have diverged from the limited powers granted in our federal constitution. Social programs of every description have been established by bipartisan legislation over the last 60 years.
Liberals want to lessen our military capability
What leads you to think that?
Liberals seen to favor more and more deficit spending
Liberals don't favor deficit spending - they just understand that it is useful for ending a recession left by your predecessor. Reagan + HW Bush quadrupled the debt, Clinton turned deficits into surpluses, W Bush turned surpluses into trillion+ deficit, Obama has cut that deficit by 2/3 to below 2003 level. It is a Republican strategy to cut revenue and use the resulting (deliberately created) deficit to create public pressure for cutting spending - see (Starve the beast).
Liberals seem far less interested in adherence to the law of the land
What makes you think that? Both sides argue for a strong President when they control the Presidency (see Bush/Cheney unitary executive policy, Bush signing statements, etc.) and for more congressional power when they control Congress, but Republicans have lately been the ones to act specifically unconstitutionally (Nixon - the obvious (and some other things), Reagan - arms for terrorists and money to contras, Bush - torture of suspects, etc.)
Our military capabilities have been seriously degraded since Obama took office.
Liberals don't favor deficit spending
The first time cutting the federal budget was seriously considered by Congress within living memory, was when the Tea Party gained significant seats in the house. Hint: There are no liberals in the Tea Party.
Obama rewrote the rules of the Senate to pass Obamacare. Obama changed Obamacare on the fly, during implementation, without congress, effectively making law from the White House. Obama allowed the DOJ to sue Arizona over border security. Obama effectively granted amnesty to an estimated 5 million illegal immigrants, via executive action, not via congress. Obama is circumventing congresses boycott of Cuba. Obama is cutting a nuclear arms deal with Iran completely without Congress.
Obama has in recent weeks, openly challenged Congress to legislate to his liking, or he will go around them. These actions and threats go against his oath to uphold the constitution.
When Obama wanted to make healthcare and contraception affordable and available, conservatives screamed "not my wallet", when liberals want to provide welfare for the poor and disabled, conservatives scream "not my wallet", conservatives want to force the bigoted antigay religious belief on a democratic society (they deny the right of same sex coiples to get married), conservatives want to police the worl, conservatives deny the right of workers to a fair workplace, conservatives refuse to respect the rights of children (they often think it is okay for parents to hit their children, and so on.
Liberals want people to have healthcare and contraception. Conservatives do not. Liberals support marriage equality. Conservatives do not. Liberals do not want to police the world. Conservatives do. Liberals support welfare for the poor and disabled. Conservatives do not.
Liberals support killing little innocent healthy late term babies from healthy mothers. Can you even grasp your pious hypocrisy? Liberals are the epitome of heartless control fanatics. Your Liberal movement is the biggest phony power grab of our American ideals in our history. You force us all to pay for killing Babies. That is beyond inhuman.
There is absolutely no question that Liberals stand for everything that goes against our Nation's freedoms and humanity.
Liberals say they care more for Black people while they support the mass killing of Black Babies through abortions. There are far higher % of abortions in the Black community. Liberals are the true racists who want to cut down on Black children who they believe might end up on welfare.
Liberals force people of conscience to pay for those mass killings.
Liberals would take our freedoms to own guns for protection, target shooting, hunting.
Liberals will force their will on all Americans. They tell us our communities can not choose to have a school prayer but women can choose to abort their unborn babies for any reason at any stage.
They are such arrogant control freaks to think they have the right to tell us all how to live, what we can eat, force us to buy their pathetic version of healthcare.
They are the nanny state but this nanny is pure corruption and pure inhumane.
"Liberals say they care more for Black people while they support the mass killing of Black Babies through abortions. There are far higher % of abortions in the Black community. Liberals are the true racists who want to cut down on Black children who they believe might end up on welfare."
Please lie more.
"Liberals force people of conscience to pay for those mass killings."
Still haven't provided evidence.
"Liberals would take our freedoms to own guns for protection, target shooting, hunting."
Yup, and you would take others freedoms of religion and marriage. Liberals are wrong on that issue, but you are just as guilty on others.
"Liberals will force their will on all Americans. They tell us our communities can not choose to have a school prayer but women can choose to abort their unborn babies for any reason at any stage."
You want to force your will on Americans as well, so why are you being hypocritical?
"They are such arrogant control freaks to think they have the right to tell us all how to live, what we can eat, force us to buy their pathetic version of healthcare."
You are just as control oriented.
"They are the nanny state but this nanny is pure corruption and pure inhumane."
Since you didn't specify any specific issue, I will talk about budgets. Fiscal conservatism is practical in many cases. Deficit spending can certainly be justified, but only for objective reasons. Using emotions to determine budgets is basically giving a blank check to a funeral parlor.